Do you really have to take choline with piracetam.

[matthias7]

Imminist were banging on about vinpocetine having high-side effects. :dunno:

Gingko the issue is that you need a good source. Any old source is not a good idea. It is believed to inhibit prolaction which makes it a good reason to take it.

 

[matthias7]

Speaking about half lifes, I have noticed that Piracetam seems to give noticeable increases in focus for approx 1 hour and at different levels from day to day. I am running th NP bulk piracetam now, on my second week. Until a few days ago the onluy choline I had was lecithin so I can bear witness to some mild headaches when I didn't take enough. Few days ago I bought choline PC, 450 mg t pills. Is this better? I have been taking 3 pills (1300mg) with 2 scoops of piracetam. I am from Canada and everything decent must be ordered from the U.S. The health food stored don't carry alpha GPC etc.

AGPC choline isn't cheap. One rumour (rumor) was that it was no more effective than choline citrate I take it regularly as part of EndoAmp max.

Tolerance to piracetam occurs after a long period of use (like months up to 1 year).

If lecithin causes problem try a different source.

The ratio of piracetam to choline is critical and it will vary (alot) person to person. Getting it right is key. I use 10:1 piracetam to citicoline.

Some very weird stuff goes on at Imminist - ignore it. Also the membership is on average older and sometimes much older - the older guys are concerned about cognitive decline which ain't something thats an issue here. You want to track reputable posters (FunkyOdessy is one) and watch for the polls they conduct. The threads cycle around some very common themes - pretty cyclic - although they are less inclined to cycle a supplement. Piracetam is a common theme and what bugs them is there ain't much evidence supporting piracetam for cognitive enhancement (results are very variable).

Thats the key to all noots - the chances are what works for someone is unlikely to work for someone else.

Goodluck and I'll sign out of this thread.

 

[luclyluciano]

I am wondering if Piracetam and other NOOTs directly can make you smarter or if they merely improve focus/concentration which can be construed to be that they are making us smarter.

 

[LoneGunmen]

I've not heard of this nor it was useful for memory. Normally its considered to have cholinergenic properties and compliments piracetam/choline etc... Its cheap.

Yes, l-huperzine A is an acetylcholinesterase (AChE) inhibitor. Acetylcholinesterase is the enzyme responsible for the breakdown of ACh which occurs following its travel from the pre to post synaptic density. An AChE inhibitor enhances the activity of ACh by preventing its degeneration, allowing it to remain a functional neurotransmitter and increasing overall levels of ACh in the synaptic cleft and within the synapse itself. It is certainly inexpensive, and has been shown extensively in both animal and human models to enhance certain forms of memory and cognition. ACh is required in the hippocampus for short-term memory and consolidation, and is exhausted during these processes-- AChE inhibitors have been shown to prolong the period of activity for ACh and therefore enhance these functions.

DMAE is said to be anti-cholinergenic ... :dunno: I guess the wiki would be a help.

Very interesting-- DMAE is methylated in the brain to become choline, which is used as a precursor for the all-important neurotransmitter, Acetylcholine (as I am sure you know). Out of curiosity (I know that this is a statement you are referencing), where did you read/hear that? I am having trouble finding such a statement outside of a few discussion forums...

A hyper-cholinergenic response is (very) dangerous and is a risk when you are stacking different noots long term but you'd need more than whats happening here

This hyperchoingeric response is exactly the danger in high-doses of l-huperzine A. As an AChE inhibitor, l-huperzine leads to increased concentrations of ACh in the synaptic cleft, which can lead to overexcitation of AChRs, resulting in an excitotoxic reaction.

I am wondering if Piracetam and other NOOTs directly can make you smarter or if they merely improve focus/concentration which can be construed to be that they are making us smarter.

The short answer is, no.

Intelligence is measured by a number of variables, none of which are universally accepted. In day-to-day interactions, intelligence is commonly measured by variables which can, yes, be enhanced by the employment of nootropics: vocabulary, short-term recall, creative problem solving...etc. Some nootropics may also lead to enhanced synaptic plasticity and neuronal generation (in certain areas of the brain).

But no, nootropics will not simply make you a "smarter" person-- just like most supplements will not simply make you stronger. When combined with dedicated studying or other forms of education, nootropics may enhance the process of learning. Learning and memory, as well as most forms of cognition require the employment of the neurotransmitter Acetylcholine, and most nootropics act to enhance its activity (either directly or by inhibiting enzymes responsible for its degeneration [e.g. AChE]). From there, this becomes a discussion of complex neurobiology, which is probably best saved for another forum or a more personal discussion

So yeah, in some manner the use of nootropics may enhance intelligence... but its certainly a bigger picture than that :thinking:

Thats the key to all noots - the chances are what works for someone is unlikely to work for someone else.

Truer words have never been spoken regarding the use of nootropics. Nootropic employment is as unique as neurochemistry-- just as our fingerprints, no two brains are exactly the same-- and therefore no nootropic regimen is likely to be equally efficacious across the board.

Additionally, as discussed above, definitions of intelligence differ between (and even within) cultures, so methods of intelligence enhancement are unlikely to ever be universally accepted. As most nootropic users have different goals, what works for one individual may be useless for another. As with most psychoactives, your mileage may vary...

 

[luclyluciano]

Regarding NOOTS working for some and not others; as I mentioned earlier I am using NP's Piracetam now. Dosing 2 of the little scoop it comes with, says 1500mg per serving. The thing is some days I feel it a lot...feels good, like today. Other days, I wonder if if it's doing anything at all! Why is this?

 

[bioman]

Well, I like Alpha GPC a lot...save for the price. At 1200 mg per day, it had a mild noot effect, boosted motivation and ability to process large amounts of info. The HGH boosting effects were also noticeable and probably overlapped quite a bit since HGH makes everything better.

Vinpo...works well except for the crash.

Hup A....too unpredictable for me. Has strong spike and crash that I don't like.

Piracetam..only racetam I've had the fortune of trying. Very low doses work for me. Anything higher than 3 grams per day gives me terrible insomnia. The "my brain won't shut off" kind of insomnia that not even strong pot can cure.

Gingko...solid, reliable stuff for me. Boosts mood, vasodialation, sex drive and cognitive performance, marginally. Great stuff before a workout.

ALCAR..love it, but love ALCAR-Arginate even more.

 

[luclyluciano]

Does Piracetam work better on empty stomach or is there no difference?

 

[luclyluciano]

Regarding NOOTS working for some and not others; as I mentioned earlier I am using NP's Piracetam now. Dosing 2 of the little scoop it comes with, says 1500mg per serving. The thing is some days I feel it a lot...feels good, like today. Other days, I wonder if if it's doing anything at all! Why is this?

Anyone?

 

[bioman]

Empty stomach is better..at least in my observation. Yes, the noticeable effects of piracetam will wax and wane while you use it. I don't know the exact reason but I would suspect that it has to do with your individual neurotransmitter output on a day-to-day basis.

 

[F355]

Empty stomach is better..at least in my observation. Yes, the noticeable effects of piracetam will wax and wane while you use it. I don't know the exact reason but I would suspect that it has to do with your individual neurotransmitter output on a day-to-day basis.

Thought it was the other way around; that prolonged use of piracetam along with choline support gradually increases and enhances memory/focus/concentration and overall cognition?

Personally, I probably won't run it everyday but if what you say is true, then I'm going to go with 5 days on, 2 days off. On the two days off I'll dose just choline citrate, would that be reasonable to recover and support choline concentrations and keep the onset of diminishing results to a minimum?