beginning Havoc cycle!!!

dustin06MR said:
i decided to hold off for another week on the 40mg, because im gaining so much right now. no sense changing a good thing right! id like to hit 50mg but well see where this goes as time passes.
Click to expand...

Sounds good bro. If anything, you can start your next cycle at 30mg and just bump it up from there :)
 
Up the dosages right away, but not over 40, and don't run it more than 4 weeks. I've ran havoc three times and each time it has been progressively worse. The dryness is too much, sore wrists, knees and elbows after three weeks and the worst lethargy after 4 weeks ever. Take lots of fish oil and aren't the dreams cool?
Good luck
 
timmmah said:
Up the dosages right away, but not over 40, and don't run it more than 4 weeks. I've ran havoc three times and each time it has been progressively worse. The dryness is too much, sore wrists, knees and elbows after three weeks and the worst lethargy after 4 weeks ever. Take lots of fish oil and aren't the dreams cool?
Good luck
Click to expand...

ill keep this iin mind as i go, but i want to see what my personal experience is as far as dryness. i havent had any joint dryness or pain yet... knock on wood. i have had some fun dreams though! ha ha
 
Day 13 Workout

WEIGH IN 194 even!

Warm-up
unweighted pullups 14,9,6,4,2
10 push-ups between eac set of pulls

Abs
-50 decline crunches
-30 alt leg raises
-unweighted back extension
-10 alt side crunches

Back
-Bent over Row using BB and v-handle 2platesx10, 3 platesx8, 3 plates & 25#x7
-bent over side rows DB 70x10, 80x8, 85x7
-lat pulldowns (no knee supports) 80x10, 90x10, 90x10 (machine binds after 90)

Abs
-20 crunches, leg lifts, flutter kicks, hello dollies

Tri's
-Dips between benches Bodyweightx10, 45plate on lapx10, platex10
-overhead DB extension 70x10, 80x10, 90x7
-rev grip cable pulldowns 40x10, 40x10, 40x8 (slooooow)


*i was almost shocked to see i still went up weight after only a day, felt great through out back, but the lack of a good 2 day rest in a few weeks is catching up with me. great pumps and vascularity once again. im dying to see what 40mg does for that too. tomorrow i will do legs and take 2 good days of rest to recooperate. my mood today has been pretty agitated, and im noticing im more tempted to tell someone whats up rather than be my typical quiet self.
 
i think the dryness varies by person. in the past, epi hasnt dried me out, and so far this run it hasnt either.
 
AMTorres said:
Im glad to hear/see you are continuing to go up in weight, have you noticed any physical changes?
Click to expand...

first... i also ran 2.6 miles today

as for your question. YES! i have noticed changes! ill be totally honest, my results will be a little more drastic due to the fact i havent worked out up until july for 3 months. ive been lifting for about 7 years and started out as a 6 foot tall 155 pounder... so i have came a long way! as far as specifics on changes, i am a little flabby, or was... the havoc is helping me literally melt fat off while STILL gaining muscle weight! its really amazing actually to me. i do cardio pretty consistently too. but so far i like the compound alot. i get a little edgy at times but hey... its kind of fun to be angry. ha ha!
 
hmm, I don't know about your body-type/goals with this cycle, but for me, on havoc, I need to eat REDICULOUS amounts of food. I can eat/eat/eat/eat/eat and not gain any fat on havoc, the more carbs/calories, the more muscle.

I would try to get 4 whole eggs and 6 egg white per day, add a cup of oatmeal pre-workout or in the morning or something for low GI carbs and extra protein. Your doing good with the 6 meals/day thing, but they don't seem like full size meals. Pre-workout you should aim for 100g carbs at least IMO to maximize the potential of havoc.

Count up your calories, protein, carbs, and fats and give us a total. If you are trying to bulk on havoc, you should be eating a crap ton more than usual. I went from 3200 cals to around 4500+ on havoc and actually leaned out!


I hope you continue to enjoy this stuff man, it makes working out a treat rather than a destruction. Just make sure you don't push your connective tissues too hard when the anti-E dryness sets in. Good luck man!
 
monsterbox said:
hmm, I don't know about your body-type/goals with this cycle, but for me, on havoc, I need to eat REDICULOUS amounts of food. I can eat/eat/eat/eat/eat and not gain any fat on havoc, the more carbs/calories, the more muscle.

I would try to get 4 whole eggs and 6 egg white per day, add a cup of oatmeal pre-workout or in the morning or something for low GI carbs and extra protein. Your doing good with the 6 meals/day thing, but they don't seem like full size meals. Pre-workout you should aim for 100g carbs at least IMO to maximize the potential of havoc.

Count up your calories, protein, carbs, and fats and give us a total. If you are trying to bulk on havoc, you should be eating a crap ton more than usual. I went from 3200 cals to around 4500+ on havoc and actually leaned out!


I hope you continue to enjoy this stuff man, it makes working out a treat rather than a destruction. Just make sure you don't push your connective tissues too hard when the anti-E dryness sets in. Good luck man!
Click to expand...
ill keep this in mind, and here is numbers from the the 9th, i dont count the numbers every day because its painfully tedious, but i check bi-weekly to make sure im maintaining high enough numbers. here they are

Total Calories: 4113
Protein: 253g
Carbs: 440g
Fats 149g

*These numbers do not include supplementation, also note this was a cheat day too, so the fat may be a bit higher. as i previously stated i maintain roughly 3300-4000 calories.
 
Day 14 Workout

WEIGH IN: 194.5 (thats correct... half a pound more!!!)

Legs
-Squats 155x10, 185x10, 225x7
-DB lunges 35x10, 30x10, 30x10
-leg extensions 70x10, 90x9, 90x8 (plates, not cable)
-cable calf raises 8 unmarked plates x 16, 9x14, 10x12 (3 sec pause at top)
-seated calf raises 70x16, 80x14, 90x12

mood: good, slightly agitated still
libido: i cant keep up with it ;P
energy: feeling a bit worn down and sluggish
workout quality: very focused, energy seems to come from no where in the gym, pumps are amazing!
sides: no more headaches, slight bit of sleeplessness (bought sleep aid), more aggressive
vascularity:great
muscle hardness: even my abs are tightening up
-also, i really cant seem to ever satisfy my hunger. its unreal! and the weight gain backs that up. looking like half a pound a day!
* i am going to take 2 days off so i can come back fresh next week and hit the gym even harder, my gains are constant and i want to take full advantage of this. keep following along!
 
Thanks for the advise about the bag of goodies to always have on hand. It's a good idea and I will stash one to have on hand for a time like that. Looks like your doing pretty well so far. You can't beat a half a pound a day weight gain. Keep it up
 
xx Zues xx said:
Thats immpressive weight gain in 2 weeks, how much would you say was lean?
Click to expand...

it would be hard to say exactly but like i said ive recieved quite a few comments about how i look like i have lost weight. so im definitely losing fat! the 2 days off i just took did me good, hope the scale reads good before my workout too. ill be posting my workout later today!
 
Day 17 Workout

WEIGH IN: 194.75

-gained a little bit, but not much. i definitely didnt maintain my diet during my 2 days off

Warmup:
-pull-ups 14, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2
Abs
-Russian twists w/ 9# ballx 25, 10 crunches, russian twists x 15, 10 crunches
(all done on decline)
-Leg Raisesx30
-side bends w/45# DBx20 each side
-back extensions w/9# ballx20

Shoulders
-DB shoulder press 60x10, 70x8, 70x4
-Arnold Press w/ DB 40x10, 45x8, 45x7
-DB lateral shoulder raises 15x10, 20x10, 20x10 (nice and slow)
-front and rear shrugs on cable machine 9 platesx10, 10x10, 11x10 each side

Abs
-50 crunches on a decline
-20 Flutter Kicks and 20 Leg lifts

Biceps
-narrow grip e-z bar curls 55x10, 65x10, 75x8
-alt DB curls on incline bench 30x10, 35x8, 35x8
-seated concentration curls 15x10 20x10, 20x8 w/ 3 sec pause at top
-forearm curls 40x20, 45x15, 50x12

*Im upping the dosage to 40mg today. My workout was phenominal, i felt very powerful and agressive, and also very focused. vascularity was just sick and also the pumps too! looks like the days off were worth it! notice the 70 pound DB shoulder raises... not bad! all my numbers jumped from previous workouts!
the agitation has minimized, and i believe it is just me mentally being used to the effects of the compound. Libido is high, for sure! not one single joint pain and i can really tell i am losing fat too. my abs are starting to poke through the 3 months of inactivity. Finally!!! sleep is a little shaky, but sleep aid is helping alot. im dosing it every 5 hours now inclucing right before bed, so i guess a little trouble sleeping could be expected. just get sleep aid!
 
just because you, im upping it to 40mg, never gone over 30mg before... very excited. im already up about 10 pounds but i dont really look significantly bigger... probably a lot of water/glycogen. are you staying at 40mg for the rest of the cycle?
 
tnubs said:
just because you, im upping it to 40mg, never gone over 30mg before... very excited. im already up about 10 pounds but i dont really look significantly bigger... probably a lot of water/glycogen. are you staying at 40mg for the rest of the cycle?
Click to expand...

10 pounds aint too bad, im not sure how lean you were but my guess is you picked up muscle as you lost fat so size didnt increase freakishly, but your probably alot more solid. i know i am. my muscles look alot fuller too, with way more vein action. i love it! anyway... good luck with the 40mg, i might try running 50mg for a week or maybe a week and a half at the end of the cycle. im going for 5 weeks, possibly 6 cuz i have 2 bottles...
 
Day 18 Workout

WEIGH IN: 195 & almost a 1/4

warm up
-40 leg raises in captains chair
-20 side bends each side w/ 45lb DB
-10 decline side crunches alt

Chest
-DB decline bench 80x10, 90x8, 90x7
-DB incline bench 65x8, 65x7, 55x10 (had to drop weight from decline bench wearin me out)
-DB flat bench flyes 25x10, 30x10, 35x10

Abs
-50 decline crunches
-40 flutter kicks
-back extension with 25lb weightx20

Triceps
-rope pulldown 80x10, 100x7, 80x9
-overhead Tri extension 70x10, 70x 8, 70x8
-straight bar push downs 80x10, 90x10, 100x10

cardio
ran 2.3 miles

*weight gain seems to be slowing down, but i am definitely getting leaner too, i upped the cardio just a bit to help with building lean muscle. the workouts so far have been intense, especially at the beginning! it does seem like i go so hard at the beginning i totally wear my muscles out in the first 3 sets. but im also pushing way higher numbers than 18 days ago. so i cant complain. no headaches anymore, sleep is good, with sleep aid... ha ha! i feel very dominant, with the whole alpha male complex going on. libido is just insane, but i suppose that is related to going with out for too long due to deployment. i have a tendency to get a little bit lethargic before my workouts, but it fades fast when i get in the gym, and i also get a little lethargic towards the very end of my day. no harsh sides to report either. ill be getting my bloodpressure read again soon due to increase in dosage, id love bloodwork but its not practical out here in iraq. lets hope things keep going the way they are. im going to record my diet tomorrow to make sure i havent dropped caloric intake too.
 
dustin06MR said:
WEIGH IN: 195 & almost a 1/4

warm up
-40 leg raises in captains chair
-20 side bends each side w/ 45lb DB
-10 decline side crunches alt

Chest
-DB decline bench 80x10, 90x8, 90x7
-DB incline bench 65x8, 65x7, 55x10 (had to drop weight from decline bench wearin me out)
-DB flat bench flyes 25x10, 30x10, 35x10

Abs
-50 decline crunches
-40 flutter kicks
-back extension with 25lb weightx20

Triceps
-rope pulldown 80x10, 100x7, 80x9
-overhead Tri extension 70x10, 70x 8, 70x8
-straight bar push downs 80x10, 90x10, 100x10

cardio
ran 2.3 miles

*weight gain seems to be slowing down, but i am definitely getting leaner too, i upped the cardio just a bit to help with building lean muscle. the workouts so far have been intense, especially at the beginning! it does seem like i go so hard at the beginning i totally wear my muscles out in the first 3 sets. but im also pushing way higher numbers than 18 days ago. so i cant complain. no headaches anymore, sleep is good, with sleep aid... ha ha! i feel very dominant, with the whole alpha male complex going on. libido is just insane, but i suppose that is related to going with out for too long due to deployment. i have a tendency to get a little bit lethargic before my workouts, but it fades fast when i get in the gym, and i also get a little lethargic towards the very end of my day. no harsh sides to report either. ill be getting my bloodpressure read again soon due to increase in dosage, id love bloodwork but its not practical out here in iraq. lets hope things keep going the way they are. im going to record my diet tomorrow to make sure i havent dropped caloric intake too.
Click to expand...

Hey bro, good to see you're still doing great! I see your numbers continuing to climb, that's great! I started my Tren today, running 90mg/day :) I will start logging in a few days when I get time to write it out
 
i wish i would have started this cycle out with 2 bottles of epi/havoc instead of having a bunch of hdrol too. if it wasnt for liver damage id probably run epi at a high dosage for 6 weeks instead of 4 and a half... but having so much hdrol in there scares me a little on the hepatoxicity side. your gona get huge, tho, man. good luck.
 
tnubs said:
i wish i would have started this cycle out with 2 bottles of epi/havoc instead of having a bunch of hdrol too. if it wasnt for liver damage id probably run epi at a high dosage for 6 weeks instead of 4 and a half... but having so much hdrol in there scares me a little on the hepatoxicity side. your gona get huge, tho, man. good luck.
Click to expand...

thanks bro! im hoping for the best!
 
Day 19 workout

WEIGH IN:197!!!

Legs

Squats 185x10, 225x8, 245x5
Leg Press 290x10, 380x10, 470x8
DB lunges w/30lb DBx 3 sets of 10
Leg Extension 80x10, 90x10, 100x8
Lying leg curls 70x10, 80x10, 90x10
Standing calf raises w/ straight bar on cable machine 9platesx15, 10x15. 11x15 (no idea what the weight is, but id guess 90, 100, 110
seated calf raises 80x16, 90x14, 90x12

*looks like the weight is climbing again, although i believe i didnt eat enough on my off days and thats why it slowed a bit and then jumped. the first part of this workout, squats, leg press, and the lunges was explosive and also tore my legs up!!! my mental focus and aggression in the gym was unreal today and i was so hyped between sets my work out buddy was looking at me funny. ha ha! i had alot of energy today also, so no lethargy. i really couldnt have asked for more results wise and it has me looking forward to each workout just to see how much more i can push it each day.
 
It's always awesome to lift when you have that much intensity in the gym. Today was an off day for me and it was killing me that I couldn't get in the gym today. Looks like you really pounded those legs too. Congrats on the weight gain looks like your seeing some great results so far.
 
lemke28 said:
It's always awesome to lift when you have that much intensity in the gym. Today was an off day for me and it was killing me that I couldn't get in the gym today. Looks like you really pounded those legs too. Congrats on the weight gain looks like your seeing some great results so far.
Click to expand...

yeah i seriously could barely walk after that workout man! the first three exercises are just a brutal combination!
 
Day 20 Workout

WEIGH IN: 197.5 (almost 197.75)

Warm-up:
-5 pull ups w/3 sec pause at top, 10 push ups
-6 pulls w/pause, 10 pushes
-7 pulls w/pause, 10 pushes
-6 pulls w/pause, 10 pushes
-5 pulls w/pause, 10 pushes

Abs:
-60 decline crunches
-20 leg raises

Back:
-standing upright rows 85x10, 95x10, 105x8
-bent over side rows 70x10, 80x10, 90x7
- lat pulldowns (no knee support) 90x10, 100x10, 110x10

Abs:
-20 crunches, 20 flutter kicks, 20 leg lifts
-20 side bends w/45lb DB each side

Biceps:
-seated alt DB curls 35x10, 40x10, 40x7
-hammer curls 25x10, 30x7, 20x10
-cable concentration curls 20x10, 20x10
-reverse curls 25x10, 35x10

*felt kind of tired on this workout, probably a little lethargy, and also slept like crap last night due to stomach issues from eating too many eggs apparently. im not going to go into this one, but i feel better now. ha ha! thats what i get for eating almost a dozen eggs every day. same vascularity and pumps ive grown to love, and also focus and aggression too. the strength is really starting to kick in now, and it seems like my weight wont stop climbing. im sure the plateau is coming though, i just hope i get the goal of 205 im looking for. Libido is down a tad today, no biggie though. no negative sides to report either at 40mg.
 
Day 21 Workout

*didnt weigh in

Chest
DB flat bench 100x5, 100x5, 100x3
DB decline bench 60x10, 70x10, 80x9
2 sets each of low and high one arm cable crossovers with 40lb (only one side at my gym)

Tri's
overhead DB extension 70x10, 80x10, 90x8
dips between 2 benches 10, 12, 14
straight bar push downs 60x10, 80x8, 80x8

*cant really remember each detail of this workout as i have been to busy to log. i just wanted to post it for the big increase in bench numbers thats all
 
Day 22 workout

WEIGH IN: 198

warm-up

Shoulders
DB shoulder press 70x6, 60x10, 60x8 (weak)
standing BB behind the neck press 75x10, 85x9, 85x8
Db front raises 15x10, 20x10, 20x10
cable for delts. one arm 20x10,20x10, 20x10 (slow, w/pause)
shrugs w/ cable machine and straight bar hookup 10 platesx10, 11x10, 12x8
(front and rear w/ 3 sec pause)

ran 3.1 miles

*i felt extremely lethargic/worn down on this workout. so much as i went down in weight just to accomplish the numbers. I believe its my work schedule contributing also to the sluggishness. vascularity and pumps were great, except for my calves during the run! that was annoying! Time to take 2 days off to refresh and hit the last 2 weeks of the cycle even harder. i improved my diet also, by spreading out the quantity of the 3 meals so i dont eat tons at once and a snack, then tons again. its more like a constant feeding now. Also, id like to report that the cutting effect of this compound is exceptional for me. my belly flab is melting away to reveal abs, which are rock solid like my other muscles. weight gain is slowing, and i might not make the 205 goal i intended but ill sure give it a run.
 
be glad u were just lethargic for that workout, im having a very hard time with being tired most of the day because im so lethargic. strength is amazing now. started kicking into overtime. recovered completely by the next day too :) worked to a 5 rep max wednesday on shoulder press and broke it on friday and again today. very nice.

any side effects that you've noticed?
 
tnubs said:
be glad u were just lethargic for that workout, im having a very hard time with being tired most of the day because im so lethargic. strength is amazing now. started kicking into overtime. recovered completely by the next day too :) worked to a 5 rep max wednesday on shoulder press and broke it on friday and again today. very nice.

any side effects that you've noticed?
Click to expand...

i havent noticed any sides at all actually. it seems to be a very mild compound to me. i had headaches at first, but i wasnt taking cycle support for the first 5 days or so. im fine now. i do get a little overly frustrated at times. thats about it. im gonna go for some bigger numbers tongith. had my 2 day rest! im all anxious!
 
dustin06MR said:
i havent noticed any sides at all actually. it seems to be a very mild compound to me. i had headaches at first, but i wasnt taking cycle support for the first 5 days or so. im fine now. i do get a little overly frustrated at times. thats about it. im gonna go for some bigger numbers tongith. had my 2 day rest! im all anxious!
Click to expand...

both my knuckles are messed up now and have cuts on them from hitting things when i cant even control my anger. ur lucky! ;)
 
lemke28 said:
I'll be watching for it hopefully you can get some PR's tonight!
Click to expand...

i didnt get any personal records, but those are 315 for 5 in a set on bench, and about 800lb on the leg press for example, but i did hit 275 for 3 in sets that night. ive been very busy and neglecting my log. but ill try to post tonights workout. also... stepping up to 50mg for the last week, starting today! tonight is my 2nd chest and tri's in a week span so ill try to get on and post. overall... im up to 199, way stronger than when i started. the biggest physical differences is: -loss of fat, -chest is wayyyy bigger!, - and shoulders are wider and more rounded too. overall everyone has noticed my work and results. ill be starting my pct in a week and ill try to keep this log going. also... my quads are pretty decent too! i leg pressed a few sets of just under 600 after squats the other day. wish i would have had time to post the workout. sorry!
 
DAY 29 WORKOUT

WEIGH IN: 199

warmup
-decline crunches with 25lb weight on chestx30
-20 leg raises
-20 side bends w/60lb DB
-20 Russian twists w/13lb ball

Chest
-Incline DB 80x10, 90x3 ???, 80x9, 80x8 (couldnt hit 90 for some reason)
-Flat Bench DB 100x6, 100x5, 100x3, 100x1
-Incline Flyes 25x10, 30x10
one arm cable cross-over 40x10, 40x10, 60x8 (very slow, w/pause)

Abs
-crunches w/25lb weight x 20
-russian twists x 20w/13lb ball
-leg raisesx20

Triceps
-overhead DB extension 80x5, 70x10, 70x10
-dips between 2 benchesx 12,14,15
-straightbar push downs 80x10, 100x10, 120x8

ran 2.6 miles also, medium fast pace

*up to 50mg now, i will say i have felt a tiny bit of joint pain the past few days, nothing crippling or to troublesome. i will finish the last week out w/50mg. Might throw in a day of rest tomorrow... maybe... but either way im going to be hitting very hard. My strength has increased EXTREMELY fast. libido is just a tad above normal, which is good. aggression is up, but it translates into confidence with me. workouts are very intense, pumps and vascularity down just a tad, but hopefully bumping the dosage up will change that. my weight seems to have stopped at 199, which is 6 short of my goal, but 10lb in 4 weeks is amazing for me. i feel great, and look pretty darn good to back it too. the one thing i would have changed is my conditioning at the start of the cycle, as i would have cut up more. it did however put me right back on my "a" game, and very fast. good product... definitely
 
tnubs said:
How long are you running this cycle, or are you about done?
Click to expand...

im done man. sorry for the lack of updates. ive been busy and discouraged by the fda news... PCT is going well, no weight loss at the beginning of 2nd week of PCT so far. strength is increasing. If this keeps up i will have successfully gained, and maintained an extra 10 lbs. that to me is phenominal. I only ran for 4 weeks and a few days due to the bans. I wanted to leave my other bottle unopened for future use. overall i am very satisfied
 
dustin06MR said:
im done man. sorry for the lack of updates. ive been busy and discouraged by the fda news... PCT is going well, no weight loss at the beginning of 2nd week of PCT so far. strength is staying put. If this keeps up i will have successfully gained, and maintained an extra 10 lbs. that to me is phenominal. I only ran for 4 weeks and a few days due to the bans. I wanted to leave my other bottle unopened for future use. overall i am very satisfied
Click to expand...

Glad to hear everything went well. Hopefully you can keep all your gains through PCT.
 
tnubs said:
sahweet. did u end up getting a serm?
Click to expand...

in all honesty... No, i did not. after talking to so many people, and researching. plus the personal experience i had during the cycle i didnt view it as a very strong compound, albeit effective. im still on the fence in regards to SERM's some say yes, some swear by em, and others say no, and they actually make things worse. As of right now, i am "functioning very well" if you feel me. I havent lost weight yet still, i feel really good. blood pressure is normal... id love to see bloodwork to confirm my health but my location makes that hard. I will continue my research as i am contemplatine either a Tren/Havoc cycle next, or a 4 week Superdrol up to 20mg, and those would probably warrant a SERM. if they really ARE beneficial. like i said i have heard and read very mixed feelings on them. but the facts are there supporting the negatives of using one, like actually lowering test levels, and vision problems, and also toxicity. I have time to plan ahead and i will determine what i can regarding this matter, and may just have one just in case. well see
 
dustin06MR said:
in all honesty... No, i did not. after talking to so many people, and researching. plus the personal experience i had during the cycle i didnt view it as a very strong compound, albeit effective. im still on the fence in regards to SERM's some say yes, some swear by em, and others say no, and they actually make things worse. As of right now, i am "functioning very well" if you feel me. I havent lost weight yet still, i feel really good. blood pressure is normal... id love to see bloodwork to confirm my health but my location makes that hard. I will continue my research as i am contemplatine either a Tren/Havoc cycle next, or a 4 week Superdrol up to 20mg, and those would probably warrant a SERM. if they really ARE beneficial. like i said i have heard and read very mixed feelings on them. but the facts are there supporting the negatives of using one, like actually lowering test levels, and vision problems, and also toxicity. I have time to plan ahead and i will determine what i can regarding this matter, and may just have one just in case. well see
Click to expand...

ya, i understand wanting to stay away from them but id keep them on hand just in case a future problem arises and u need it but dont have it. Vision problems from clomid should go away quickly after stopping and toxicity isnt a big deal considering the methyl steroids are worse for you and most have been taking milk thistle through cycle and can just keep taking it and have no problems there. never heard of it lowering test levels? id be interested to read up on that. most the bloodwork ive seen gets people's test levels high as hell after cycle. as far as doing another cycle in december, i might wait just a little longer. if your running a cycle for 5 weeks, then 4 weeks of pct... id wait at least 9 weeks after pct to restart. so like mid january, just because it does take the body a while to get back to normal and prohormones arnt really the healthiest alternative.
 
tnubs said:
ya, i understand wanting to stay away from them but id keep them on hand just in case a future problem arises and u need it but dont have it. Vision problems from clomid should go away quickly after stopping and toxicity isnt a big deal considering the methyl steroids are worse for you and most have been taking milk thistle through cycle and can just keep taking it and have no problems there. never heard of it lowering test levels? id be interested to read up on that. most the bloodwork ive seen gets people's test levels high as hell after cycle. as far as doing another cycle in december, i might wait just a little longer. if your running a cycle for 5 weeks, then 4 weeks of pct... id wait at least 9 weeks after pct to restart. so like mid january, just because it does take the body a while to get back to normal and prohormones arnt really the healthiest alternative.
Click to expand...

right on. i can agree with that in regards to a SERM and will more than likely have one on hand. i was reading that sometimes they can make it harder for your natural test to get back in swing, but im not 100% on it. thats the problem about the whole subject is there is so much mixed info. the reason i say december is because i am deployed and i want to be PCT complete from the 2nd cycle before i get home to my wife. other wise i would wait longer. Anyway. PCT is going well. weighed in at 198.5 roughly today, a smidge higher. so if anything ive lost a half a pound in over a week. not bad id say.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top