VARICOCELE...can it effect testosterone?

well, if i'm primary and secondary. LH low and damaged leydigs, theres no point in relying on clomid to raise my LH. The only thing that would be safe long term is HCG, but HCG solo shuts down the pituitary so whats the point of doing HCG solo when you could do low dosage of HCG + TRT, you are still supressing pituitary and increasing test while maintaing testicular function. If my sperm count comes back fine, I dont see the point in doing the surgery at all.

For example, if my sperm comes back fine or not, and I get the surgery, my total T may raise 150 pts, but my LH will still be 1.5. By the time im 25-30 my lh will be even lower. So therefore, the surgery becomes redundant if I'm going to need TRT anyhow.
 
brian82 said:
Hows things with testosterone etc. noticed any changes? Also did you take anything ie. clomid HCG or any other supplement to help with testicle size? The general concensus I get from reading on the forums is that HCG is the only med that can help here for testicle size is this right?
Click to expand...

I noticed the week after the surgery a definite increase in libido but that dropped off again. Morning erections are now apparent two/three times a week. I don't know what my levels are but I'm off to an endo next month to try and get to the bottom of what's happening.

I haven't taken clomid post operation but then I never had any noticeable atrophy so was lucky. I did take it pre-op to see what would happen, I felt great for a week or so then it stopped having an effect. I think HCG is the only thing that would help as you say.

Cheers
dj
 
LBJDLJ said:
Monsterbox.... You need to look online.. You may be a combination of low lh and varicosile. There are many studies that indicate a higher T level after surgery. ALSO TAKE INTO FACT THAT A VARICOSILE CAUSES LEDWIG CELL DAMAGE "WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR TESTOSTERONE. YOUR LH WILL OVER TIME GET HIGHER AND HIGHER INDICATING TESTISCULAR CELL DAMAGE Think about it... I am seeing now that my libido is in fact higher than before surgery. While maybe not as dramatic as immediatly after surgery at least I have a semi normal sex life of 6 or 8 times a week. When I mean semi normal I only last about 5 to 15 minutes now but it is still pleasurable and can be sexy. While I have low LH as well around yours monster. I think a combination of Pituatuary Enchancing drugs could benifit plus surgery. Granted I don't know which ones are safe but I was on testosterone injections as well.. I can tell you this monster box.. Maybe stimulating your LH is a good idea because it stimulates other hormones beside Testosterone as well but SERIOUSLY CONSIDER THE SURGERY. IF TESTOSTERONE ISN'T ENOUGH HOW ABOUT TRYING TO REPRODUCE AND CARRY ON YOUR FAMILY NAME. THATS IMPORTANT AS WELL.

Thank you :)
Click to expand...

microsurgery does not improve testosterone levels. There are very few cases where it was improved. and nobody on this forum got benfitted from micro surgery.varicoceles do not reduce testosterone level..Even though lot of articles say that they may reduce testosterone. I have 0.6 Lh level and i have very good libido and string erections , only problem is my wife dont want to have sex whenever I want. My testosterone is 223 which is below normal range.How do you get philippino girls, you lucky fellow
 
sperm count came back 2.8million/ml - extremely low infertile.

Dr. Crisler put me on 10 weeks 25mg/day of Clomid.

I'm getting embolization next week whether it helps or not I dont care. Why is my sperm count so low? Is it because my pituitary?
 
monsterbox said:
sperm count came back 2.8million/ml - extremely low infertile.

Dr. Crisler put me on 10 weeks 25mg/day of Clomid.

I'm getting embolization next week whether it helps or not I dont care. Why is my sperm count so low? Is it because my pituitary?
Click to expand...

Were you on steroids before?
 
Monsterbox I dont know what to tell u. The surgery helped me at first and I have a semi normal sex life now. I have sex about 7 times a week maybe 8 or 9. Testosterone in studies is used as a male contraceptive. If u want a family get the surgery to get your sperm count raised and also find other ways to raise it. Take TRT after u have a child if u want to be a family man.
 
And I think your to young to have to many damaged leywig cells considering your lh is so low and being so young..
 
DarkBlue i live in the Philippines.. :) I have a cutey sweety flipina right now...Shes 20 years old. She looks like a cross between japanese and a flipino. Pretty sexy in a innocent teachable schoolgirl kind of way. I am white guy even the ugiliest mother f'er could get the sweetest cuteypie here! I breed labradors here and starting a internet cafe. If u have some money i recommending living here for a few months. U could live on 600 usd a month.
 
Well I used 1 4 week cycle of havoc, 2 weeks of havoc, and 7 days of SD in the past year. I mean that sounds like alot but its realistically 7 weeks of steroids in an entire year. I felt exactly the same before as I do now. My sex drive isn't any lower/higher than it has been my whole life, neither are any of my other symptoms heightened then before. The 7 days of Superdrol were over 4 months ago....I don't understand how that could relate to the low-sperm count.

Sounds to me like my pituitary is screwed up, hence my low Total T, Low LH, and probably my low sperm production.

And to comment on Testersterone as a birth control, I believe TRT alone will definitely reduce sperm/sterilize. However, TRT + HCG should keep the same testicular activity as HCG alone. And when you are ready to have kids throw in some HMG and you should be more then ready as your testicles are still active.
 
monsterbox said:
Well I used 1 4 week cycle of havoc, 2 weeks of havoc, and 7 days of SD in the past year. I mean that sounds like alot but its realistically 7 weeks of steroids in an entire year. I felt exactly the same before as I do now. My sex drive isn't any lower/higher than it has been my whole life, neither are any of my other symptoms heightened then before. The 7 days of Superdrol were over 4 months ago....I don't understand how that could relate to the low-sperm count.

Sounds to me like my pituitary is screwed up, hence my low Total T, Low LH, and probably my low sperm production.

And to comment on Testersterone as a birth control, I believe TRT alone will definitely reduce sperm/sterilize. However, TRT + HCG should keep the same testicular activity as HCG alone. And when you are ready to have kids throw in some HMG and you should be more then ready as your testicles are still active.
Click to expand...
Did you have your pituitary MRI done? If not get it done soon
 
darkblue1 said:
Did you have your pituitary MRI done? If not get it done soon
Click to expand...

cannot get it covered by insurance since I am "on range"


I did however test for progesterone...waiting for results.

1 thing to mention. My mother was on injections of progesterone during pregnancy with me. Wonder if this has any correlation?
 
monsterbox said:
cannot get it covered by insurance since I am "on range"


I did however test for progesterone...waiting for results.

1 thing to mention. My mother was on injections of progesterone during pregnancy with me. Wonder if this has any correlation?
Click to expand...


No, Does not matter. I also dont think you will have any pituitary problem.
 
Updates people, updates!.. Monster how'd Embolization go? I've learned to not care about my Varicocele.. I was depressed over it for a while but i seriously am cool with it now... Don't even want surgery.. it's a pain with the drag sometimes but I now know how to flush the pooled blood out of my scrotom during sex :D!!! Which is ****ing amazing!.. That's honestly all i really cared about lawl.. I don't see how it can affect my libido anymore than it has. I'll be 22 in a couple months... Anybody with a Varicocele in their 30's that had stage 3 at 16-17 years of age?.. Also how did people's surgeries go =o!.. I really want to know how the embolization went mainly >.<

-Aaron :]

Sacramento Based Varicocele sufferer.. l o l
 
did get surgery...had to put it off for some summer school stuff to get done first. I'll probably be getting sometime.

For now, I'm on Dr.Crisler prescribed 10wks of 25mg/day Clomid. I actually think its starting to work somewhat. Its been 10 days and I feel like I'm less stressed/sleep better.
 
Did anyone who had the microsurgery see any improvement in testicle size naturally or did you have to use something like clomid/HCG. Also it has been 3 months since my surgery and I can still feel/see the veins on my left testicle is this normal?

Thanks,

B
 
Hey guys. I've been reading this thread's earlier pages and I just wanna say this is the best varicocele discussion I've come across during a google search. I have a few questions about it. First a background of my situation though.

I'm 18 years old and I just realized the "sack of worms" on the left side of my scrotum is a grade III varicocele. I have no pain, just some discomfort that leaves me readjusting my boxer briefs occasionally. It looks god awful though. A lot of the things I've read on the web recommend treatment only if it hurts... but I really don't wanna be looking at this thing for the rest of my life. I'm also worried that my testes will shrink and lower my testosterone levels, if they haven't already. I was about to start working out to gain muscle mass as well but knowing that the varicocele may be hindering progress is a bitch and really lowers my motivation to.

So what I'm wondering is, has anyone gotten the surgery to remove them but had no pain? Do the surgeons care if you're in pain or not? And how much does the surgery approximately cost (w/ and w/o insurance)? Thanks a lot guys.
 
Guys, I was diagnosed with a varicocele earlier this year after noticing a dragging pain and some mild lower left back pain which I think is correlating to the left sided varicocele. Went and saw a urologoist who recommended Emobilzation which I booked myself to do straight away. Procedure is very straight forward and I was twighlight sedated, kind of asleep and kind of not but they woke me up and here I was thinking they were just about to start haha.. anyways, no pain what so ever apart from mild neck ache (where the catheter was inserted) felt like a bruise or a neck strain which completely went away in 3 days. It's now 9 weeks after the procedure and even though the drag isn't continuos like it was I can still feel the varicocele when standing (not visible under the skin- which has always been the case) and still feel the discomfort albeit with some improvement. I am going back to see the uro again as I was told it should take up to 6 weeks for complete recovery and from my understanding there is a degree of technical error with emobilzation and with the placement of the coils.

Anyways, I would do the procedure again in a heart beat if that was the solution, as it's very less invasive that open cut surgery.

@Airgutter87, curious to know how you flush the blood out as you say in your previous post..... this technique could potentially help others.

Feel free to ask any q's
 
Airgutter87 said:
Updates people, updates!.. Monster how'd Embolization go? I've learned to not care about my Varicocele.. I was depressed over it for a while but i seriously am cool with it now... Don't even want surgery.. it's a pain with the drag sometimes but I now know how to flush the pooled blood out of my scrotom during sex :D!!! Which is ****ing amazing!.. That's honestly all i really cared about lawl.. I don't see how it can affect my libido anymore than it has. I'll be 22 in a couple months... Anybody with a Varicocele in their 30's that had stage 3 at 16-17 years of age?.. Also how did people's surgeries go =o!.. I really want to know how the embolization went mainly >.<

-Aaron :]

Sacramento Based Varicocele sufferer.. l o l
Click to expand...
Im curious too, flushing the blood.

I think this is when the dragging pain is at it's peak! Your technique would benefit ALL.

Thanks man!
 
I have varicocele grade 3 with my testicles. My urologist tells me i cannot do surgery because it is too late. I am almost 23 years old. I am not sure when i got it but i am pretty sure it was when i was 18-19 when i had a penis injury where i injured my penis real bad.

My testicles have shrunk and they look and feel like a bag of worms. I know you can have grade 1, grade 2 or grade 3 varicocele and grade 3 is the worst one. I have problems getting and maintaining erections as well and a whole bunch of problems also. I know for sure i have low testerone because my testicles have shrunk in size but nothing was done 4-5 years ago because the urologists i saw all told me i had no problems... well guess they were wrong and i knew it.

My urologist tells me it is too late for me to do surgery. is this a lie? someone who had the same thing but grade 2 one said he had it when he was 14-15 and had surgery for it last year when he was 22 so he had it for a good 6-7 years. He also noticed his testicles were shrinking and doctor told him to do the surgery and he did it. He lives in Bulgaria though.

My problem is that my urologist tells me ITS TOO LATE. I live in nyc by the way and i am really mad that doctors don't care about their patients. Varicocele is associated with male infertility and he told me to come back to him when i am 28 or 30 years old and then he will look into this problem more if i want to have a kid. Well... why don't you just do it now? I have all those symptons that warrant for surgery and this urologist tells me its all in my head?
 
westell1 said:
I have varicocele grade 3 with my testicles. My urologist tells me i cannot do surgery because it is too late. I am almost 23 years old. I am not sure when i got it but i am pretty sure it was when i was 18-19 when i had a penis injury where i injured my penis real bad.

My testicles have shrunk and they look and feel like a bag of worms. I know you can have grade 1, grade 2 or grade 3 varicocele and grade 3 is the worst one. I have problems getting and maintaining erections as well and a whole bunch of problems also. I know for sure i have low testerone because my testicles have shrunk in size but nothing was done 4-5 years ago because the urologists i saw all told me i had no problems... well guess they were wrong and i knew it.

My urologist tells me it is too late for me to do surgery. is this a lie? someone who had the same thing but grade 2 one said he had it when he was 14-15 and had surgery for it last year when he was 22 so he had it for a good 6-7 years. He also noticed his testicles were shrinking and doctor told him to do the surgery and he did it. He lives in Bulgaria though.

My problem is that my urologist tells me ITS TOO LATE. I live in nyc by the way and i am really mad that doctors don't care about their patients. Varicocele is associated with male infertility and he told me to come back to him when i am 28 or 30 years old and then he will look into this problem more if i want to have a kid. Well... why don't you just do it now? I have all those symptons that warrant for surgery and this urologist tells me its all in my head?
Click to expand...

Varicocele can affect testosterone and fertility, and in almost all cases I believe it will affect them to a degree. However, doctors consider disregard this degree of affect because the range of T and sperm count is so broad. Without baseline blood tests before the varicocele formation, most doctors will never believe that the varicocele has any affect if you are still on the range.

All these as*hole doctors around the United States say that if your are between 250-850ng/dl of Total T that you are fine. You could have 1 nut and still produce 251ng/dl and you would still be considered fine.

The fact of the matter is doctors in the United States don't give a sh*t about seeing that your body runs as optimized as possible. If you total T is at the low end of the "range" they can right you off as fine and make plenty of money off you with viagra/blood pressure meds/anxiety meds/etc.

No one wants to help unless you can prove that there is a signifcant loss in T levels.

I bet if you showed a doctor blood tests that you once had 950ng/dl total T levels and you now have 255ng/dl level, MAYBE they would consider that the varicocele has an effect.



Now, as far as it being too late...I have no idea because none of the f*cking doctors have many extensive studies on T levels returning. Its all about stupid ass fertility.

Bottom line...I'm in the same situation as you. I'm seein Doctor John Crisler. I know that I'm different than I used to be....I KNOW THIS....Therefore ANYTHING THAT ANYONE tells me about "your fine" "your in range" "your a hypochondriac" they can all go to hell. So you need to set your mind on finding a doctor that will be open to testing your hormone levels and providing TRT after attempting a Restart and or suggesting varicocele surgery.

1. try the surgery and see what happend...probably not that much will happen.

2. try the surgery and then take clomid for a few weeks to help trick the ball in to growing back (best idea)

3. get on trt if the surgery doesn't work, or get on trt now.

Worst case scenario, surgery doesn't help but at least its fixed you from further atrophy and now you can get on TRT + HCG and have functional testicles preserved by the HCG to store/make sperm in the future.



Moral of the story, Do not put too much trust in people/doctors/forum member that have NOT had this problem before.
 
hey monsterbox, i dont really know what you mean by the trt and hcg because i do not know those things. I just know that urologists are horrible because they don't believe it is necessary. I still have insurance but the thing is i have healthfirst in new york city. I am Asian by the way so most of the urologists i see are Asian like in chinatown or in flushing.

Last time i saw some doctor on the upper east side, he's American, White and they did not took my insurance so it cost me like 200 dollars to see the guy one time and he said i had no problems.

I don't know what to do now. I am going to have a sonogram done on June 25th and then see the same urologist i saw last week again. He keeps telling me i am so anxious and everything is in my head when it is clearly not. I mean i have varicocele grade 3. How in the world am i suppose to be normal in the head when i know i have something this bad. I also read grade 3 is the worst and most of the patients with grade 3 are most likely infertile.

Do you have grade 3 varicocele monster? Do you know how you got it? Where do you live by the way?
 
westell1 said:
hey monsterbox, i dont really know what you mean by the trt and hcg because i do not know those things. I just know that urologists are horrible because they don't believe it is necessary. I still have insurance but the thing is i have healthfirst in new york city. I am Asian by the way so most of the urologists i see are Asian like in chinatown or in flushing.

Last time i saw some doctor on the upper east side, he's American, White and they did not took my insurance so it cost me like 200 dollars to see the guy one time and he said i had no problems.

I don't know what to do now. I am going to have a sonogram done on June 25th and then see the same urologist i saw last week again. He keeps telling me i am so anxious and everything is in my head when it is clearly not. I mean i have varicocele grade 3. How in the world am i suppose to be normal in the head when i know i have something this bad. I also read grade 3 is the worst and most of the patients with grade 3 are most likely infertile.

Do you have grade 3 varicocele monster? Do you know how you got it? Where do you live by the way?
Click to expand...

yea I have a grade three and low sperm count but decent libido..go figure. I live in Alabama. You just need to find a good doctor that understands varicoceles. You should also get a sperm count, this is your ticket to surgery.
 
westell1 said:
Are you getting surgery done soon? Does the insurance you have cover for seeing these doctors you see?
Click to expand...

I went to a good uro and complained about lots of pain, which I made up, and had a sperm count done. He had no interest in assessing my testosterone levels. My insurance covers him and I will be getting the surgery soon. In the mean time, I'm under care of Dr. Crisler in Michigan who is overseeing everything and is actually concerned about getting my testosterone to where it should be for my age. However, it comes with a price, no insurance coverage. So if the surgery doesn't work, which it probably won't do much, Crisler is going to help me with TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy). This is injecting or cream testosterone along with various forms of controlling estrogen to maintain a Testosterone level optimized for your age. The downside is fertility is lost and the hassle of constantly balancing your estrogen/progesterone/etc till you get it tweaked right. There are options such as HCG (injected to keep your testicles working along with the TRT) This will help to maintain fertility and testicular function too a degree. If I indeed have to resort to TRT, I will be storing as much sperm as I can over the first few fertile years in a freeze bank just incase TRT sterilizes me in the long run.

My advice to anyone with a varicocele
1. GET A BLOOD TEST of ALL sex hormones including pituitary function AND thyroid. This will tell you how much the varicocele has/is affecting you currently.
2. If the above comes back at the low end of the range, and you do indeed have symptoms of low-t, EVEN if they are managable...if you feel different than you used to in life theres no reason to EVER settle for less. Find a doctor that will work with you on recovering T levels (that hard part)
3. Find out if your low-t is related to your pituitary or the varicocele...it could also be both. A good idea would be a SERM, clomphene citrate. It will boost your LH output signal and tell your testicles to produce more T. If your LH signal rises but your T doesn't then its related to the varicocele/testicles.
4. Get the surgery and restest blood levels after a few months to see if T rises in response to LH
5. Last case try going on TRT.

In my opinion, even if you have normal T levels, you should still get the surgery. Its supposed to be easy and will prevent any sort of complications that you could develop later in life. People yank their wisdom teeth before they even root.
 
how old are you monsterbox? I am a bit confused. Would you still be infertile even if you have the surgery? How much does the procedure cost since insurance does not cover it?
 
Hi There,
well, I had surgery 7 years ago, after that everything was fine until recently when it came back. My uro told me that all was good and that there is no sign of return. my blood tests - testosterone below normal ! left testicle shrunk a lot. I went to another uro and explane all. surgery was two month ago, my left testicle grew a little, but I am expecting more. I am using a little of Igf-1lr3 to help it a little ( low dose )
my sperm count still not like it was before - probably because surgery made shock to testicles ( swollen,painful ect) so I am waiting for a little more to see in sperm improvement, I am 31 now. It is never to late for surgery and it allways helps.

after 2 uro that send me home , on the 3. one I did not want to leave and demand operation after all info I took.
 
Okay i got my results back. It is the testicular doppler ultrasound.

It has this

History: Varicocele, decreased flow.

Technique; Imaging of the scrotum was performed using a linear transducer.

Findings: The right testicle is normal and homgeneous measuring 3.3 X 1.9 X 2.2 cm. there is normal color and arterial waveform within the right testicle. The right epididymis is unremarkable measuring 0.5cm at the head.

The left testicle is normal and homogeneous measuring 3.3 X 1.7 X 2.3 cm. There is normal color and arterial waveform within the left testicle. The left epididymis is unremarkable measuring 0.7 cm at the head.

the left peritesticular veins show moderate increase in calilber and augmented color flow with Valsalva indicating a varicocele. Within the right peritesticular veins, there is color flow detected without and with Valsalva but no significant change in caliber.

Impression: Left greater than right varicocele.


He said even if you do surgery, there is 60 percent chance it would get better. But he tells me i should wait until i want to get a kid and i am young since i am only 22. The thing is most likely i will have to do it anyways. And yes he confirmed i have a varicocele grade 3.

I asked him about the blood tests to test circulation and he said he cannot do those tests and i will have to see another urologist for that because he does not have the tools for those things. Does anyone know if this varicocele has any relationship to my erectile dysfunction problems?

he did tell me to get a penile duplex for Erectile dysfunction and gave me some names of urologists who do it.

What should i do now? I have this varicocele that i must get surgery and my penis has problems as well because i have E.D and definitely i have poor blood circulation in my penis as a result of the accident i had back in 2005 where no urologists gave me any solution.
 
westell1 said:
Okay i got my results back. It is the testicular doppler ultrasound.

It has this
History: Varicocele, decreased flow.

Technique; Imaging of the scrotum was performed using a
linear transducer


Findings: The right testicle is normal and homgeneous measuring 3.3 X 1.9 X 2.2 cm. there is normal color and arterial waveform within the right testicle. The right epididymis is unremarkable measuring 0.5cm at the head.

The left testicle is normal and homogeneous measuring 3.3 X 1.7 X 2.3 cm. There is normal color and arterial waveform within the left testicle. The left epididymis is unremarkable measuring 0.7 cm at the hea

the left peritesticular veins show moderate increase in calilber
and augmented color flow with Valsalva indicating a varicocele.
Within the right peritesticular veins, there is color flow
detected without and with Valsalva but no significant change in
caliber

Impression: Left greater than right varicocele.
He said even if you do surgery, there is 60 percent chance it would get better. But he tells me i should wait until i want to
get a kid and i am young since i am only 22. The thing is
most likely i will have to do it anyways. And yes he confirmed
i have a varicocele grade 3

I asked him about the blood tests to test circulation and he said he cannot do those tests and i will have to see another urologist for that because he does not have the tools for those things. Does anyone know if this varicocele has any relationship to my erectile dysfunction problem

he did tell me to get a penile duplex for Erectile dysfunction and gave me some names of urologists who do it.

What should i do now? I have this varicocele that i must get surgery and my penis has problems as well because i have
E.D and definitely i have poor blood circulation in my penis as
a result of the accident i had back in 2005 where no urologists gave me any solution.
Click to expand...

hi

firstly I should state that I am not a urologist. But I am a gi surgeon and in fact do stiill operate on some varicoceles.

First:

one in three men have a varicocel, usually left sided and small

larger ones cause dragging pain, swollen feelings etc.

Really large ones raise the temperature of the scrotum and can affect speratogenesis and thus reduce fertlity

To significantly affect test production you would need massive longstanding varicoceles on both sides, since test usually in normal range with one nut.

Treatment:

surgery through scrotum - painful and takes weeks for swelling to go down. Risk of damage to nut, vas etc.

Surgery through groin. Lower recurrence rate but can result in hernia

keyhole surgery to clip testicular vein in abdo - advanced technique, risk of damage to guts etc. Lowest recurrence.

Embolisation. Advantages of the latter but without the need for surgery v


I cannot see the deal about age. If u are symptomatic or simply don't like the thing we in the uk would treat it. Cannot see any point in waiting

low normal or low test more likely to do with pit or testis themselves and we would recheck and investigate that AFTER dealing with varicoceles.

Hope that helps....,,,
 
I am a bit confused stuart. Do you say it is best to do the surgery? I will definitely do it after i have something done for my penis because of my erectile dysfunction problem
 
westell1 said:
I am a bit confused stuart. Do you say it is best to do the surgery? I will definitely do it after i have something done for my penis because of my erectile dysfunction problem
Click to expand...

If you have pain/ ache etc then yes, definitely. Cannot get better by itself.

For cosmetic reasons or if you hate the thing, then yes. But remember no procedure risk free.

Most varicoceles in uk now treated by embolisation as most rapid recovery, unless we also have to deal with a hernia or do a vasectomy.

One could also argue that until it is gone, interpretation of hormone levels may be difficult. I'm the uk test levels etc are not normally part of the work up as it usually takes a pretty big varicocele to affect hormonal function.

If u may want kids would avoid open surgery as carries a small risk of vas damage. Embolisation does not.
 
So doing embolization will make the varicocele disappear right? I have grade 3 by the way the one that is visible to the eye.
 
StuartGould said:
hi

firstly I should state that I am not a urologist. But I am a gi surgeon and in fact do stiill operate on some varicoceles.

First:

one in three men have a varicocel, usually left sided and small

larger ones cause dragging pain, swollen feelings etc.

Really large ones raise the temperature of the scrotum and can affect speratogenesis and thus reduce fertlity

To significantly affect test production you would need massive longstanding varicoceles on both sides, since test usually in normal range with one nut.

Treatment:

surgery through scrotum - painful and takes weeks for swelling to go down. Risk of damage to nut, vas etc.

Surgery through groin. Lower recurrence rate but can result in hernia

keyhole surgery to clip testicular vein in abdo - advanced technique, risk of damage to guts etc. Lowest recurrence.

Embolisation. Advantages of the latter but without the need for surgery v


I cannot see the deal about age. If u are symptomatic or simply don't like the thing we in the uk would treat it. Cannot see any point in waiting

low normal or low test more likely to do with pit or testis themselves and we would recheck and investigate that AFTER dealing with varicoceles.

Hope that helps....,,,
Click to expand...



This is the problem with the medical world. They assume you can live perfectly fine if your are on the "normal range". So why not just cut one testicle off from everyone then....they will still be on the "normal" range.

Define normal. 250ng/dl to 850ng/dl??? If you have a varicocele and T levels in the 300's, and you feel like you have ED, Low-Libido, ETC...its definitely a sign of Testesterone being below your "normal".

I've been to 4 doctors, shown them blood tests in the low 300's. I'm twenty years old. They all say, "you are fine...your testosterone is within range".

Really?? Seriously??? Are you joking?? Then why the hell do I feel SO MUCH better on clomiphene citrate right now then i have my whole life?

A testosterone level of 300ng/dl matches the average of 60+ year old men.
 
What is clomiphene citrate? Why are you taking it? Do you have any ED problems as well? When is your surgery monster?
 
monsterbox said:
This is the problem with the medical world. They assume you can live perfectly fine if your are on the "normal range". So why not just cut one testicle off from everyone then....they will still be on the "normal" range.

Define normal. 250ng/dl to 850ng/dl??? If you have a varicocele and T levels in the 300's, and you feel like you have ED, Low-Libido, ETC...its definitely a sign of
Testesterone being below your "normal".

I've been to 4 doctors, shown them blood tests in the low 300's. I'm twenty years old. They all say, "you are fine...your testosterone is within range"

Really?? Seriously??? Are you joking?? Then why the hell do I feel SO MUCH better on clomiphene citrate right now then i have my whole life?

A testosterone level of 300ng/dl matches the average of 60+
year old men.
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of course this is a very good point.

Normal ranges of everything are determined by measuring them in as many people as possible, with no symptoms of too much or too little.

By definition it means some peoples normal levels are above or below the normal ranges.

Also a single level in an individual is just a snapshot. For instance if a hormone level is low normal in an individual with symptoms it would make sense to measure the level several times to establish a trend. Also if possible we would measure the stimulating hormone. Eg. For thyroid we measure tsh. If this is high but t3/4 low normal this may imply the level is low for the INDIVIDUAL

finally most docs will have no clue about the physical or hormonal demands of heavy weight training, and simply will not grasp the relevance of "llow normal" hormone levels in relation to our needs.
 
I had surgery in March the Microsurgical varicocele repair method and I can still see the veins is this normal?
 
Thanks

Thanks for all the helpful information Stuart, it's greatly appreciated.. I myself have a prettyyyy bad Stage 3 Varicocele and am quite hesitant on getting surgery. I've heard in some cases it's made things worse and other cases it's done absolutely nothing.. For some scars and chances of complications (excluding the price -_-) I'm just not sure it's worth it :o.. However, I'm gaining more of an interest with the Embolization :].. What are the recurrence rates for them, do you know? Can you do them more than once (embo)? and are there any complications (such as the coil moving in the vein or something?)?...

Thanks for the help,

-Aaron

Hope everyone had a great 4th :D
:usa:
 
Anyone have varicocele and E.D problems related to their penis? I think i need to have 2 surgeries but would not know which one i should do first if that is even possible.
 
westell1 said:
Anyone have varicocele and E.D problems related to their penis? I think i need to have 2 surgeries but would not know which one i should do first if that is even possible.
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Hi

ED has many causes and most do not need surgery unless there has been clear trauma and damage to the corpus cavernosum "fractured penis", or an erection lasting many hours and not treated (priapism) - can destroy the valve mechanisms in the penis designed to keep blood there.

Surgery for the varicocele should in no way affect any ed surgery that may be needed. Even the rarely undertaken vascular shunts for post priapism damage use a leg vein.
 
Airgutter87 said:
Thanks for all the helpful information Stuart, it's greatly appreciated.. I myself have a prettyyyy bad Stage 3 Varicocele and am quite hesitant on getting surgery. I've heard in some cases it's made things worse and other cases it's done absolutely nothing.. For some scars and chances of complications (excluding the price -_-) I'm just not sure it's worth it :o.. However, I'm gaining more of an interest with the Embolization :].. What are the recurrence
rates for them, do you know? Can you do them more than
once (embo)? and are there any complications (such as the
coil moving in the vein or something?)?...

Embolisation generally very effective with recurrence a few %. Causes include failure to get the embolisation catheter in the testicular vein, coils or foam migrating downstream before vein fully clotted, and new veins forming.

Complications rare and include skin infections and harmatoma at the skin puncture site, allergic reaction yo the x ray contrast , and pain and swelling in the testicle for a few weeks. Very rarely shrinkage of testis if there is no other way for the blood to get out. Normally two other veins taking a different root from the testicular vein.

Sg
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stuartgound, do you know what surgery is needed? My penis injury happened 4.5 years ago and no urologists back then saw much problems with it even though my penis could not get an erection for 6.5 months. Do you know the name of the surgery? I am so positive that something is damaged in my penis because i have E.D, left side of my penis hurts when i TOUCH it, i split stream all the time after the accident. I am pretty sure i have very little blood circulation now.

Do you know how they can check for trauma now to the fractured penis? I will be seeing another urologist next Friday because they have the tools to check me. My other urologist said this doctor can check for penis duplex? Is it EVER TO LATE?

Everyday is slipping by the last 4.5 years and my life is just sad because of this.
 
I'm 31 will be 32 next month and have had a severe case of ED for the past 6 months, went to my doctor back in april my total testosterone was 453ng/dL Range 241-827 and my free test was 10.1 pg/mL Range 8.7-25.1 and TSH 2.12 ulU/ml Range 0.34-5.60 although this is definately not enough testing both my total and free should be alot more than this for my age. I have no morning woods, no spontaneous erections and no libido. I can manage a partial erection just suitable enough for penetration if I use my hand. I used to have a raging libido even though my erection quality had started to diminish since late 2007. I can fully relate to your situation Westell and the lack of sincerity of the doctors. My life is a total hell now since having ED and coping with it is not easy I've been on the edge of a nervous breakdown several times over it already.
 
MSL2009 said:
I'm 31 will be 32 next month and have had a severe case of ED for the past 6 months, went to my doctor back in april my total testosterone was 453ng/dL Range 241-827 and my free test was 10.1 pg/mL Range 8.7-25.1 and TSH 2.12 ulU/ml Range 0.34-5.60 although this is definately not enough testing both my total and free should be alot more than this for my age. I have no morning woods, no spontaneous erections and no libido. I can manage a partial erection just suitable enough for penetration if I use my hand. I used to have a raging libido even though my erection quality had started to diminish since late 2007. I can fully relate to your situation Westell and the lack of sincerity of the doctors. My life is a total hell now since having ED and coping with it is not easy I've been on the edge of a nervous breakdown several times over it already.
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thats not terribly low for your age. Its low but not extremely. Mine is in the low 300's and i'm twenty. I have a low SHBG and very low estradiol though. However, my sex drive never suffered that much...I didn't have ED problems, I just wasn't quite as horny as I was when I was younger. Now that I'm on clomid, i'm just simply hornier.

I would looking into a full hormone panel. You may have way out of way estrogen which would cause more problems than slightly lower T. If you have high estrogen, it may be a simple metabolism pathway issue. You could possibly correct this with an Aromatase Inhibitor such as Formex temporarily to see if you can convert that high estrogen to more total T. My father has been on TRT cream. His total T was 650 and his estradiol was in the 50's. He felt terrible, no libido. He tried some formex and his total T hit the 800's and estradiol dropped significantly....he claims libido has shot up, which is kind of gross for me to hear lol
 
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