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caffeine = insulin resistance = fat fat fat

So one could say that insulin resistance would also lead to muscle wasting at the same time it is causing an increase in adipose tissue? I feel bad for those diabetics. All the more reason to stay in shape and keep exercising- because being overweight can make a person more susceptible to develop diabetes. How? Are their insulin receptors hypersensitive in the adipose and just the opposite in skeletal muscle? I know genetic predisposition plays a role but how does being overweight raise the risk?
I'm not as familiar with muscle-waisting & IR/T2DM. In theory, I would think it may at least hinder gains. Of course, exercise such as weight-lifting helps to increase insulin sensitivity...


Hormones are freakin' complicated...:damnit:
 
I'm not as familiar with muscle-waisting & IR/T2DM. In theory, I would think it may at least hinder gains. Of course, exercise such as weight-lifting helps to increase insulin sensitivity...


Hormones are freakin' complicated...:damnit:


Holy crap are they complicated, lol.

I was keeping up with this until about 6 posts ago >_<

Can anyone gimme some quick cliffs? I think I got most of it, but I don't wanna have my info wrong just because I was confused :worried:

EDIT: Make that 8 posts ago, lol
 
Holy crap are they complicated, lol.

I was keeping up with this until about 6 posts ago >_<

Can anyone gimme some quick cliffs? I think I got most of it, but I don't wanna have my info wrong just because I was confused :worried:

EDIT: Make that 8 posts ago, lol

x2!
 
Could you elaborate on the differences? The stim use is more of an acute-IR effect? Of course that would probably still be a bad thing to someone "pre-disposed" to developing T2DM (perhaps an endomorph?), no?

My T2DM references were used as an example of population that is insulin-resistant. Doesn't insulin-resistance and leptin-resistance tend to go hand-in-hand, along with some of the other issues you named, regardless of the development of full-blown T2DM? Doesn't IR lead to LR by the liver overloading the blood with free fatty acids converted from the excess sugar? Therefor, wouldn't increasing insulin sensitivity (such as the metformin study) also increase leptin senitivity and help correct/stabilize many of the issues associated with T2DM & metabolic syndrome?


I think of it as comparing apples to oranges, and the apples have worms in them.

T2DM patients are predisposed to insulin resistance. They can watch what they eat, exercise regularly and still develop some level of IR regardless. I have a family member that falls into this category...she eats very well, exercises every day, maintains a very healthy BMI for her height, and still pulls ~100-105 on a fasting glucose. They have a genetic predisposition because their body handles nutrients differently than those without said predisposition.

It becomes hard to compare a transient IR d/t stimulant use in a normal individual to long-term IR d/t genetic factors in a T2DM individual.

It becomes impossible to compare the exact mechanisms, especially with a disease such as T2DM, because of the multigenic inheritance pattern. There are many genes that can contribute to T2DM, each effecting a different pathway and each having various levels of response to environmental stimuli (overeating, lack of exercise, sedentary lifestyle, etc). One person with T2DM might be very well controlled with metformin for the remainder of their life, while another might require escalating dosages and eventual progression to an oral hypoglycemic with insulin. In these people, not only do they have IR but also an inadequate production of insulin.


Regardless, I think the point of this thread is moot. IR from stimulant use (with concomitant increase in cortisol levels) is transient at best and probably isn't relevant when talking about a cutting cycle...the increase in BMR and liberation of FFAs is a greater reward than the risk of transient IR. Of course, this is all with a GOOD diet. IR in a caloric surplus isn't a good thing, because your body will be aiming to store calories and finds itself having trouble.

Now, someone who abuses caffeine regularly for years and years, sits at work for 10 hours everyday, consumes an excess of (dirty) calories, and hasn't walked more than 15 feet from the couch to the kitchen since they were a teen...well, thats a different story.
 
I've never heard that one. High blood sugar, among other things, leads to hyperinsulinaemia, which over time will lead to a decrease in insulin receptor sensitivity, with a greater tendency of that to happen in muscle tissue.
I was under the impression that receptor sensitivity and receptor density were one in he same. After all, how can a protein decide not to accept the protein it was designed to bind to, without altering its structure? If I am wrong about that, then I suppose you are correct. I skipped over hyperinsulinaemia because (1) I was unaware there was a term for it (2) if that doesn't happen, your blood viscosity increases beyond the safe threshhold and you die from poor (or no) circulation. (lol, this pixie stick could be your last)

Insulin resistance absolutely will make you fat.
Given the certain realms. Nutrients always go to the muscle tissues first, due to better circulation. You do excrete sugars, proteins, and sometimes even fats. I know this to be true. I'll look more into insulin sensitivity of adipose tissues, but I'm pretty sure this happens, although would be more difficult to characterize.

From a purely anecdotal position, I know many diabetics, and I'd say less than 10% of the type II I know would be considered normal weight. Almost all of them are overweight or obese.
Yes, but this is a connection which may or may not be arbitrary to the circumstance we are looking at. In order for type-II diabettes to occur, a person must first be put into a state in which insulin sensitivity is decreased. The most effective means for which to do this tend to have weight-gain as a common side effect.

I understand the point you were trying to make about the pixie sticks, and yes, the refined sugars contribute to insulin-resistance, but once one becomes resistant, it's a compounding downward spiral towards weight gain. When you eat pixie sticks and your insulin sensitivity is normal, you are able to better metabolize the sugars, and not store them as fat. Of course abusing the pixies will lead to the downward spiral, and now that we've talked about them enough, the FDA will be banning them ;)

IDK, I mean, they still have Cell-Tech on their "to ban" list. I mean pixie sticks are bad for you, but at least they're not 1000x more powerful than steroids.
 
Now, someone who abuses caffeine regularly for years and years, sits at work for 10 hours everyday, consumes an excess of (dirty) calories, and hasn't walked more than 15 feet from the couch to the kitchen since they were a teen...well, thats a different story.

I think you hit the nail on the head with that statement.
 
I was under the impression that receptor sensitivity and receptor density were one in he same. After all, how can a protein decide not to accept the protein it was designed to bind to, without altering its structure? If I am wrong about that, then I suppose you are correct.
Receptor sensitivity is caused by receptor density (size), but I took what you said as meaning total receptor numbers.


Given the certain realms. Nutrients always go to the muscle tissues first, due to better circulation. You do excrete sugars, proteins, and sometimes even fats. I know this to be true. I'll look more into insulin sensitivity of adipose tissues, but I'm pretty sure this happens, although would be more difficult to characterize.
Yep, excreting excess fat in your feces makes it float :omfg:

I kind of mis-spoke about the insulin-resistance/fat cell connection, and should have included that earlier. Leptin resistance is kind of like "insulin-resistance for fat cells" in that it causes the fat cells to decrease fat oxidation and uptake of free fatty acids (which in turn can lead to insulin-resistance in muscle cells via inhibition of glucose transport/phosphorylation - bad vicious cycle there)


IDK, I mean, they still have Cell-Tech on their "to ban" list. I mean pixie sticks are bad for you, but at least they're not 1000x more powerful than steroids.
Long live the pixie stick :notworthy:
 
I have been doing alot of reading on caffeine...and I fully believe if you endmorphic...caffiene is yoru enemy.

Caffeine seem to really make your body ignorant to insuilin release....thus making fat gain easy and fat loss hard.

I am going all out to eliminate caffeine from my diet to see if it helps with cutting.

Dude, Thanks but can you also post the original article
 
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