"Shogun" Rua vs "Iceman" Liddell @ UFC 97 - the AM thread

SpargelJanusz

SpargelJanusz

Member
Just wanted to open this as a thread focusing on a pre and possible postfight discussion.

What's your take on this one? Rua did not win in convincing fashion against Coleman, even if Liddell beats him, he will not be considered a top 5 LHW by most.

And if Chuck loses, well, it'd be for sure the end of his career.

Any word yet on what new tricks ATT might have taught Chuck as he has become too readable by now?
 
Rodja said:
This fight depends on 1 thing: which version of Mauricio shows up.
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I fully understand you, but with his medical past, the PRIDE Rua may be out of reach. Also, I understand there was no drug testing in PRIDE while there is in the UFC, so steroids might not be a solution here.
 
It's his gas that needs work. He was never a "bully" in Pride, but you can tell he is a Chute Boxe product.
 
Here's the real question:
Would the winner (who ever that will be) be a decent fight for the 205 champion? (also who ever that is when the time comes)
 
The winner needs another win over a consensus top-10 LHW before being worthy of a title shot.
 
ok let me rephrase...
1. If Shogun makes it through his next 1 or 2 wins following Chuck, could he have a chance against (Rash/Ramp/Machid)?

2. If Chuck makes it...
 
Chuck is well past his prime. Most in the top 10 at 205 would beat him IMO. However, Shogun is young enough to get back his form, however something tells me that is not happening.
 
Reaper329 said:
Chuck is well past his prime. Most in the top 10 at 205 would beat him IMO. However, Shogun is young enough to get back his form, however something tells me that is not happening.
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You think Forrest could beat him? I couldn't call that one. I'd love to see it though. I bet if Forrest's hand or whatever wasn't all fcked up it would have been him in place of Shogun. Just my opin though.
 
Rodja said:
The winner needs another win over a consensus top-10 LHW before being worthy of a title shot.
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Realistically, make that "Top 5". I remember back before UFC 79, when Dana White said that the winner of the Liddell / Silva match can regain the title easily. Well, he was wrong.

Back then it was an impressive showing of Chuck, though, with his takedowns.

Problem is that the UFC's LHW is so talent rich, and time works against Chuck.

For me it goes without saying that he will have to overcome Rampage for a LHW shot. And as much as I'd love to see him win, I just don't see him pulling that off. I mean, even a prime-Chuck could not overcome this badazz Rampage back in 2003!

Against Rua, I see Chuck ahead slightly. A knockout is in the cards for him.
Will put my money on Chuck here.

Any word yet whether Tony Robbins will have a session with him again?
 
SpargelJanusz said:
Realistically, make that "Top 5". I remember back before UFC 79, when Dana White said that the winner of the Liddell / Silva match can regain the title easily. Well, he was wrong.

Back then it was an impressive showing of Chuck, though, with his takedowns.

Problem is that the UFC's LHW is so talent rich, and time works against Chuck.

For me it goes without saying that he will have to overcome Rampage for a LHW shot. And as much as I'd love to see him win, I just don't see him pulling that off. I mean, even a prime-Chuck could not overcome this badazz Rampage back in 2003!

Against Rua, I see Chuck ahead slightly. A knockout is in the cards for him.
Will put my money on Chuck here.

Any word yet whether Tony Robbins will have a session with him again?
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The top-10 is such a cluster that 2 wins against fellow top-10'ers makes you title worthy. Hell, look at Forrest and Rashad; they only beat 1 top-10 LHW, got a shot, and won the title.
 
I can see this very well going to Shogun IF, and this is a huge if, he can get some endurance back. His last fight against coleman was ridiculous, he was gased before a what, 65 year old fighter? hehe.

If he spent enough time working on his cardio he can pull this one out, but if not, he'll get caught big on the 2nd, 3rd round, since we all know chuck is not the hunter and rather enjoys counter-attacks, and he'll land one big as soon as Shogun is out of gas and starts getting careless and leaving his hands down.

Now, if he has indeed worked on his endurance, I can indeed see him taking this one home, specially if he doesn't have to cut much to make weight. Not on the standup as much, but rather taking advantage of a few exchanges to either pull guard or take Chuck down as he's not big on going after anyone.

But we'll see what Shogun steps up to the ring. All other scenarios I can't see Chuck losing this one, even though he's already past his prime.
 
Let's say the UFC would put money over fairness and give Chuck another title shot if he wins vs Rua. It'd be a sold-out event for sure.

But he'd have to win vs either Machida or Evans, possibly Rampage. And is it imaginable that he really improves that much to accomplish this? I mean, it seems he cannot even get rid of his belly... Invalid Link Removed
 
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SpargelJanusz said:
Let's say the UFC would put money over fairness and give Chuck another title shot if he wins vs Rua. It'd be a sold-out event for sure.

But he'd have to win vs either Machida or Evans, possibly Rampage. And is it imaginable that he really improves that much to accomplish this? I mean, it seems he cannot even get rid of his belly... Invalid Link Removed
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Thats my whole point right there. Funny yet tragic picture by the way.
Sure I'd love to see him come back like he did with Randy, but Chuck beating Rua is really more like Matt H beating Matt S. Yes would love to watch you fight some smaller fighters but its painful to see him get knocked out by a guy like ***Sugar.

***And I'm talking likability not ability.
 
It is truly disheartening that, at such a young age, we are forced to speak about the, "Old Shogun". If even shades of that Shogun appear, though, he will thoroughly dominate Chuck.
 
Age is relative in sports. In boxing, you are considered past your prime beyond 30 or 32.

Couture was really an exception with what he did at LHW, however his conditioning was topnotch, and the competition was not as tough as it is now.
 
SpargelJanusz said:
Age is relative in sports. In boxing, you are considered past your prime beyond 30 or 32.

Couture was really an exception with what he did at LHW, however his conditioning was topnotch, and the competition was not as tough as it is now.
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Sorry for not clarifying, I suppose what I meant to say was, "At a relatively young age of his career".
 
i always wonder about the no testing in pride. who do you think all used? i have seen some old UFC clips from the 90's and those guys definatly roided hahahaha. anyways i say chuck wins and if he doesnt good god hes done. also i thin the winner should fight forrest or maybe thiago? and yes i agree if you beat 2 top 10's in 205 u get a shot.
 
bigwhiteguy29 said:
i always wonder about the no testing in pride. who do you think all used? i have seen some old UFC clips from the 90's and those guys definatly roided hahahaha. anyways i say chuck wins and if he doesnt good god hes done. also i thin the winner should fight forrest or maybe thiago? and yes i agree if you beat 2 top 10's in 205 u get a shot.
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Yes! Chuck and Forrest would rule. I bet he was supposed to in the first place but needed time for his hand to heal. Franklin should be fighting Shogun.
 
Chuck vs Forrest would be a given, simply because it would make the UFC's cash register explode - the PPV sales would certainly set a record.

But first, Shogun is waiting. I'm really praying American Top Team has taught Chuck some surprise moves. Maybe he'll utilize kicks more often?

What does frighten me is Chuck saying "It's another step in getting my title back"... well, the last steps were not so successful, were they? And is it "his title"?
 
yeah he really needs to win i miss him. i hope we see the old winning chuck but a new fighting chuck. I dislike shogun because hes boring to watch because his cardio and i barley knew him when he was in pride.(wasnt into MMA that much) I really want a battle followed by a HUGE K.O. doesnt everyone tho hahaha
 
Great would be a first round Knock out, like in the recent Rampage vs Silva fight.

What I find strange is that no official site for UFC 97 is up yet, though it's only 16 days to go.
 
bigwhiteguy29 said:
yeah he really needs to win i miss him. i hope we see the old winning chuck but a new fighting chuck. I dislike shogun because hes boring to watch because his cardio and i barley knew him when he was in pride.(wasnt into MMA that much) I really want a battle followed by a HUGE K.O. doesnt everyone tho hahaha
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Boring is something I have never heard about Mauricio; over-rated, yes; boring, no. He has had some electrifying fights (e.g. v Rogerio Nogueira, Rampage), but he has been battling the injury bug since he fought Coleman back in '06.
 
Jessep76 said:
Official site other than UFC? They had it up last I checked.
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No, a real site dedicated to it, normally the url would be something like Invalid Link Removed

What is a given is that if Chuck wins, Rogan will hype him up endlessly ("Chuck never looked that good...", "Chuck now deserves a titleshot...")
 
Iceman all the way. He just needs to get that "Snap out" going again. Where he just explodes and keeps going till there is a KO.

JP.
 
ya i told you guys i didnt get to watch his fights really in pride. the forrest griffin fight was good cuz he was beating this big name. the coleman fight was boring they were gassed(cole big time) i never got to see his big fights and they suck watching on the computer. so i hope he loses : )
 
bigwhiteguy29 said:
just watched that he had a nasty clintch but page looked bad almost the whole time. finally i see him not gassed
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Let's not forget, Rua had 8 wins in a row where he beat the like of Overeem (huge guy by now, he's moved up) and Arona.

This could be a great fight if we see those bad boys near their topgame.
Let's not forget: Chuck has his calves working for him!:laugh:

Here's Round 3 of Overeem vs Rua, check out the first 2 round also, bigwhite:
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I truley hope chuck wins, but as stated before, the winner will need at least two wins to challenge the title. At least.
 
bigwhiteguy, do you know how tall Chucky really is or most likely is? I ask because the UFC tends to "oversize" their fighters. Randy Couture was listed as 6'2'' for quite some time when in reality he stands around 6'.

Liddell is also listed as 6'2'', seems to have an inch on Randy though. But 6'2'' seems like a stretch to me.
 
I think this will be a good matchup. I'm pulling for Chuckie, but I cannot say he will make a run for the title again. I think father time has flown by faster than he would like to admit. I'm not saying he sux, but he has NOT been the Liddell of earlier times.
 
I ve got a feeling chuck is gonna ko em, but im not basing that on anything other than the fact that he was and still is to some degree my favorite fighter.
 
BabyHulk said:
I think this will be a good matchup. I'm pulling for Chuckie, but I cannot say he will make a run for the title again. I think father time has flown by faster than he would like to admit. I'm not saying he sux, but he has NOT been the Liddell of earlier times.
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He was fantastic though in the Silva fight @ UFC 79. If he could regain this old magic, we might see a totally dominant victory of Chuck.

What I really fear is not so much Chuck losing, but him losing and then refusing to step down as a fighter. It'll be a delicate balance act for Dana White - how can I tell a loyal fighter I don't want him to fight anymore for the UFC without offending him?

Because the UFC would make itself a laughing stock if it held on to a LHWler who would then have lost 4 of his 5 last fights and continue to speak of "regaining my title".
 
SpargelJanusz said:
He was fantastic though in the Silva fight @ UFC 79. If he could regain this old magic, we might see a totally dominant victory of Chuck.

What I really fear is not so much Chuck losing, but him losing and then refusing to step down as a fighter. It'll be a delicate balance act for Dana White - how can I tell a loyal fighter I don't want him to fight anymore for the UFC without offending him?

Because the UFC would make itself a laughing stock if it held on to a LHWler who would then have lost 4 of his 5 last fights and continue to speak of "regaining my title".
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Yeah that fight was definitely a good showing. For both fighters. Chuck is getting more like Wandy in the fact that his switch has been thrown a lot lately, (flash kos)and it doesn't take much anymore. I just hope he can get one more win before he decides to "lay it down".
 
What's more, the respect he once was given seems to vanish. While most of you might know this already, some maybe don't: Invalid Link Removed

Funny, yes, but also in a way depressing because of its bittersweet kernel of truth.
 
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