Epistane or??

enthusedguy07

New member
I am writing in this forum as well since members did not like me posting in the supplements thread. This is my first post as I am a new member. I am 29 years old and have been lifting pretty consistent since I was 18. When I was younger I tried 19-Nor, 1-AD, and 4-AD with some good results, but have not used a prohormone for approximately 5 years. I am looking to put on a little size, get much leaner and increase strength while minimizing adverse side effects. Aren't we all? I feel like I am knowledgable to a degree, but most of you are either experts in this field or have real life experiences to share. Since I have been out of the "pro-hormone" game for the past 5 years, I would like to get advice from the masses on this site who know exactly what their talking about.

I came across Epistane, which looks and sounds great. Is this something I should mess around with or would you guys recommend a different product? Again, I'm looking to get a little bit bigger, but mostly leaner and stronger. Please let me know if this product fits my goals or should I take something else? I really appreciate all responses and feel I can gain so much great info from you all.

My stats are 6'1, 200, 13% bodyfat, and 29 years old. Thanks for all the advice.

Derrick
 
enthusedguy07 said:
I am writing in this forum as well since members did not like me posting in the supplements thread. This is my first post as I am a new member. I am 29 years old and have been lifting pretty consistent since I was 18. When I was younger I tried 19-Nor, 1-AD, and 4-AD with some good results, but have not used a prohormone for approximately 5 years. I am looking to put on a little size, get much leaner and increase strength while minimizing adverse side effects. Aren't we all? I feel like I am knowledgable to a degree, but most of you are either experts in this field or have real life experiences to share. Since I have been out of the "pro-hormone" game for the past 5 years, I would like to get advice from the masses on this site who know exactly what their talking about.

I came across Epistane, which looks and sounds great. Is this something I should mess around with or would you guys recommend a different product? Again, I'm looking to get a little bit bigger, but mostly leaner and stronger. Please let me know if this product fits my goals or should I take something else? I really appreciate all responses and feel I can gain so much great info from you all.

My stats are 6'1, 200, 13% bodyfat, and 29 years old. Thanks for all the advice.

Derrick
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ok...for starters epi is actually a steroid not a ph....and its effects are very similar to winstrol....good lean mass gains...doesnt aromatize and will lower estrogen levels, therefore helping with a cut....i think it is an ideal product for your goals....4-6 weeks should give you pretty good results...id run it something like this.....20/20/30/30/40/40/ or 20/30/30/40 if you want to keep it shorter...
 
Thanks Mooch, but is this TOO serious for me to take? Would you recommend something else for me? Also, what should I take with it or after in your opinion to make any possible side effects if any less?

I really appreciate you taking time to give your input.

Thanks.
 
epi is a great run for a first timer....or someone who is just getting back into the game(like yourself)....as far as on cycle ancilliaries i would make it easy and get some Cycle Support...or one of the other all in one products....post cycle you should use a serm...i like clomid and an ai....
 
Thanks so much Mooch. I think I will give it a shot. When you say Cycle Support, are you implying the product made by Anabolic Innovations? Also, after I'm done with the cycle where does someone get Clomid and would 6-Oxo be a good supplement to take as well or in combination? Is Clomid a Serm? I am a newbie so I do not know what serm means. Your feedback is fantastic and appreciate it much.
 
enthusedguy07 said:
Thanks so much Mooch. I think I will give it a shot. When you say Cycle Support, are you implying the product made by Anabolic Innovations? Also, after I'm done with the cycle where does someone get Clomid and would 6-Oxo be a good supplement to take as well or in combination? Is Clomid a Serm? I am a newbie so I do not know what serm means. Your feedback is fantastic and appreciate it much.
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:gotsearch
 
yes i am talking about cycle support by anabolic innovations....and clomid and six oxo would make a good pct for epi....as for the board rules i cant tell you where to get a serm like clomid but if utilize google you can find a good research site...try plugging any of these into a search..."clomiphene citrate"..."tamoxifen citrate"..."research chemicals"...
 
Thanks Mooch. I will look into that. I appreciate all your advice and will let you know how things go. My last question is, do you think Epistane would be better than H-Drol?
 
My advice would be go to the Recomp Performance Nutrition forum below in the Supplement Company area. READ the HAVOC WRITE-UP sticky thread. Havoc is very close to epistane and should be taken and handled the same way. Start there and memorize the write-up. Its sort of an all in one place to gather info on Epi/Havoc cycles. Good Luck.
 
BigFish80 said:
My advice would be go to the Recomp Performance Nutrition forum below in the Supplement Company area. READ the HAVOC WRITE-UP sticky thread. Havoc is very close to epistane and should be taken and handled the same way. Start there and memorize the write-up. Its sort of an all in one place to gather info on Epi/Havoc cycles. Good Luck.
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they are the same thing....not very close...same
 
mooch2321 said:
they are the same thing....not very close...same
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I here what you're saying. The labels show the same active, BUT there are more than few here that would say these arn't the exact same formulations. I think by making the statement "They are the same", you might be opening a can of worms in these forums. I was personally just trying to avoid this. I doubt Neoborn and dsade would say these are the exact same either. If they won't even say it, then neither will I.

Oh and I have taken both, so I'm not just talking out of my @ss. I liked Havoc better and I took it after I took epistane. I say that b/c usually epi runs are the best the first time around assuming everything is similar. I got different results from the supposed "SAME" compound. I sure others will line up and say the same thing.
 
this is epistaines chemical nomenclature.....
2,3a-Epithio-17a-methyletioallo cholan-17b-ol
this is havocs nomenclature.....
2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan- 17b-ol

do you see the difference....ok.... etioallocholan is just another way to write androstan....as i undrstand it many companies dont want to have the words andro in their labels so they use different wording....it is still the same compound....
 
mooch2321 said:
this is epistaines chemical nomenclature.....
2,3a-Epithio-17a-methyletioallo cholan-17b-ol
this is havocs nomenclature.....
2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan- 17b-ol

do you see the difference....ok.... etioallocholan is just another way to write androstan....as i undrstand it many companies dont want to have the words andro in their labels so they use different wording....it is still the same compound....
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First off....... I know organic chem pretty well (if you only knew) so I DON'T need you to break it down for me. Second, I pointed out above that the labels were the same...... so NO SH!T in regards to your nomenclature breakdown (they teach that on the first week of an intro organic class). What I was saying was that I wasn't going to put myself out there and claim that they are identical. They MAYBE the same, but I've not willing to say that in respect to both RPN and IBE. Like said before, this is the only reason why I said it this way.

Mooch........ look I your one of the more informed guys on this forum (seemed to be well educated) and I read alot you write and agree with most of it. I think we are saying virually the exact same thing. I guess the difference it that your statement is a bit more bold than mine. No disrespect intended bud, really. I didn't say I was trying to prove you wrong, as I might believe EXACTLY what you're saying, but just not willing to say it.
 
BigFish80 said:
First off....... I know organic chem pretty well (if you only knew) so I DON'T need you to break it down for me. Second, I pointed out above that the labels were the same...... so NO SH!T in regards to your nomenclature breakdown (they teach that on the first week of an intro organic class). What I was saying was that I wasn't going to put myself out there and claim that they are identical. They MAYBE the same, but I've not willing to say that in respect to both RPN and IBE. Like said before, this is the only reason why I said it this way.

Mooch........ look I your one of the more informed guys on this forum (seemed to be well educated) and I read alot you write and agree with most of it. I think we are saying virually the exact same thing. I guess the difference it that your statement is a bit more bold than mine. No disrespect intended bud, really. I didn't say I was trying to prove you wrong, as I might believe EXACTLY what you're saying, but just not willing to say it.
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not many people on this board have taken an o-chem class....sometimes the breakdown is needed....if...like you said that you have been there and done that then we are on the same page and this discussion is over....have a good day bro...
 
mooch2321 said:
not many people on this board have taken an o-chem class....sometimes the breakdown is needed....if...like you said that you have been there and done that then we are on the same page and this discussion is over....have a good day bro...
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You too bro. It's always more fun and makes for a better discussion when both partys are well educated and not talking out of there @ss.

If you don't mind me asking, where did you get your degree? I got both of mine from NC State. BS in Biological Sciences and MS in Human Nutrition.
 
i didnt actually go the science route...it wasnt until later that i became interested in all this...when i was at school partying was the only thing that interested me...that and making it to wrestling practice with as little of a hangover as possible...but i got my BS in business management from IU...i like arguing with guys who know what there talking about too...makes it more fun when i gotta hop over to pubmed to check facts...lol
 
Good stuff. You definitly have a good grasp of science for a Business guy. Fooled me! I would have thought you had a degree in Organic, Biochem, or the sciences. Nice talking with you. Its gym time for me. See ya around.
 
BigFish80 said:
I here what you're saying. The labels show the same active, BUT there are more than few here that would say these arn't the exact same formulations. I think by making the statement "They are the same", you might be opening a can of worms in these forums. I was personally just trying to avoid this. I doubt Neoborn and dsade would say these are the exact same either. If they won't even say it, then neither will I.

Oh and I have taken both, so I'm not just talking out of my @ss. I liked Havoc better and I took it after I took epistane. I say that b/c usually epi runs are the best the first time around assuming everything is similar. I got different results from the supposed "SAME" compound. I sure others will line up and say the same thing.
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I would say go with whatever give you the results you want or the product you have more faith in. Both, IMO are quality brands / products.
 
BigFish80 said:
I here what you're saying. The labels show the same active, BUT there are more than few here that would say these arn't the exact same formulations. I think by making the statement "They are the same", you might be opening a can of worms in these forums. I was personally just trying to avoid this. I doubt Neoborn and dsade would say these are the exact same either. If they won't even say it, then neither will I.

Oh and I have taken both, so I'm not just talking out of my @ss. I liked Havoc better and I took it after I took epistane. I say that b/c usually epi runs are the best the first time around assuming everything is similar. I got different results from the supposed "SAME" compound. I sure others will line up and say the same thing.
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I totally agree with you about Havoc and Epi.

I did Havoc 3.5 weeks and Epi 3.5 weeks. For something that is supposed to to be the same compound, they had way different effects on me for sure.

( I did read above the chemical structures)

Back to the results. Havoc--- more pumps, more gains, strength was up but not like trenadrol, sides were more------nite sweats, feeling hot at nite and sometimes days.

Epi--- I really didnt feel much from and the pumps were less noticeable.

I went as high as 50mg with both then back to 40mg since 50mg was really a waste and did nothing different.

In the future, I would do Havoc again - maybe with trenadrol.
 
boggs67ss said:
What about Havoc vs. E-stane? Anybody experience with both?
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Yeah I did and got better results with Havoc even though I ran the Epi 6 months prior. The first cycle with a compound is supposed to be the best one that you experience. I'm going to start a 3-AD/Havoc 5 weeker in exactly 1 week. Can't wait. I got HUUUUGE results with Havoc dosed 20,30,30,40.
 
BigFish80 said:
Yeah I did and got better results with Havoc even though I ran the Epi 6 months prior. The first cycle with a compound is supposed to be the best one that you experience. I'm going to start a 3-AD/Havoc 5 weeker in exactly 1 week. Can't wait. I got HUUUUGE results with Havoc dosed 20,30,30,40.
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I was thinking about doin a Havoc run soon for like 5-6 weeks at 40mg all the way through, I tend to have a high tolerance to stuff, do you think its worth running for 5 or 6 weeks, or do the gains kinda halt after 4 weeks?
 
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