tren: acetate vs enanthate

texastweeter

texastweeter

Active member
Going to be useing Test, Tren, and Winn soon while cutting. Lowering calories, increasing cardio, and will be either supplementing with E.C.A. or T3/Clenbuterol as well. Ususally I use Test-P and Tren-A, but I have 30ml of Test-E laying around. Could I run it with Tren-E with similar results? Last time I used Tren-A, I had horrable coughing fits, making cardio difficult. Have heard some people say that the enanthate esther will prevent that. This however doesn't make sense to me since the esther has nothing to do with the associated cough. Any input would be great along the lines of effectiveness, dosages, and the coughing issue. Thx in advance.
 
test-e 500mg/week 1-12
tren-e 300-400mg/week 1-10

personally i think the ester of a compund plays huge role of how it effects ppl. tren-a is good for tren noobs because if sides are horrible then discontinuing the compound will lead to the decrease in sides in a matter of days rather than weeks.

u wont know how tren-e treats u until u run it
 
Think I am going to run the above mentioned cycle along with winn 1cc eod for the last 4 weeks. Probably throw in Clen and T-3 as well. Thanks.
 
you will still get tren cough from the tren-e....are you gonna jump right into this cycle after your done with your 50 mgs of phera and 50 mgs of mdrol or wait a while?...you should be careful bro...
 
gonna take prolly 6-8 weeks off after pct. I finished up my 6 week 50/50 on the 9th and started Tamox. on the 10th will finish up the Tamox on the 7th, wait a week, get final bloodwork done, and then make my decision.
 
texastweeter said:
Going to be useing Test, Tren, and Winn soon while cutting. Lowering calories, increasing cardio, and will be either supplementing with E.C.A. or T3/Clenbuterol as well. Ususally I use Test-P and Tren-A, but I have 30ml of Test-E laying around. Could I run it with Tren-E with similar results? Last time I used Tren-A, I had horrable coughing fits, making cardio difficult. Have heard some people say that the enanthate esther will prevent that. This however doesn't make sense to me since the esther has nothing to do with the associated cough. Any input would be great along the lines of effectiveness, dosages, and the coughing issue. Thx in advance.
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What dose of Tren A were you taking?
 
I would take A over E any day of the week. I've run both with much better results from A talen EOD. If you are getting alot of coughing, try to hit an area that isn't so ripped if that makes sense. I use my calves for tren A and due to having zero fat in them, I get coughs right away. If I use my glutes or thighs with a bit of body fat around them, I don't get coughs.
 
mooch2321 said:
why would subcutaneous fat make any difference in the absorption of an im injection?
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lol, It does not!

There is some interesting research on pinning the delt versus glute where the delt shot spikes blood androgen levels faster but as you know that is a different topic.
 
heavyiron said:
lol, It does not!

There is some interesting research on pinning the delt versus glute where the delt shot spikes blood androgen levels faster but as you know that is a different topic.[/QUOTE]

can you give me a link on the study....ive never heard that...very interesting....but i hate pinnin delts
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mooch2321 said:
heavyiron said:
lol, It does not!

There is some interesting research on pinning the delt versus glute where the delt shot spikes blood androgen levels faster but as you know that is a different topic.[/QUOTE]

can you give me a link on the study....ive never heard that...very interesting....but i hate pinnin delts
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Sure, My mistake, the glute shot spiked more rapidly. Compare solid circle with solid square in the graph.


2 popular esters of Nandrolone and their effects on plasma concentrations in different muscle groups.

This study compared the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of two currently available esters of nandrolone, the decanoate and phenylpropionate, as well as the influence of i.m. injection sites (gluteal vs. deltoid) and injection volumes (4 ml vs. 1 ml). In addition to measuring plasma nandrolone to investigate pharmacokinetics, we measured plasma testosterone and inhibin by radioimmunoassay to determine the pharmacodynamic effects of nandrolone-induced inhibition of pituitary gonadotrophin secretion, as reflected in LH-dependent Leydig (testosterone) and FSH-dependent Sertoli (inhibin) cell function in healthy men. We analyzed these data using an indirect pharmacodynamic response model, which has demonstrated, for the first time, prominent pharmacological differences between esters differing in only a single carbon in the side-chain, as well as systematic differences attributable to injection site and volume in humans.

Fig. 1. Time course of plasma nandrolone concentrations in 23 healthy men over 32 days after i.m. injection of 100 mg of nandrolone phenylpropionate in 4 ml of arachis oil vehicle into the gluteal muscle (group 1) () or injection of 100 mg of nandrolone decanoate into the gluteal muscle in 4 ml of arachis oil vehicle (group 2) (), into the gluteal muscle in 1 ml of arachis oil vehicle (group 3) () or into the deltoid muscle in 1 ml of arachis oil vehicle (group 4) (). Results are expressed as mean and S.E.M., unless the S.E. is smaller than symbol.

Another amazing effect shown in this study was NPP kept blood plasma levels fairly high for 3-4 days meaning that every day injections are not needed as commonly thought.

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heavyiron said:
mooch2321 said:
Sure, My mistake, the glute shot spiked more rapidly. Compare solid circle with solid square in the graph.


2 popular esters of Nandrolone and their effects on plasma concentrations in different muscle groups.

This study compared the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of two currently available esters of nandrolone, the decanoate and phenylpropionate, as well as the influence of i.m. injection sites (gluteal vs. deltoid) and injection volumes (4 ml vs. 1 ml). In addition to measuring plasma nandrolone to investigate pharmacokinetics, we measured plasma testosterone and inhibin by radioimmunoassay to determine the pharmacodynamic effects of nandrolone-induced inhibition of pituitary gonadotrophin secretion, as reflected in LH-dependent Leydig (testosterone) and FSH-dependent Sertoli (inhibin) cell function in healthy men. We analyzed these data using an indirect pharmacodynamic response model, which has demonstrated, for the first time, prominent pharmacological differences between esters differing in only a single carbon in the side-chain, as well as systematic differences attributable to injection site and volume in humans.

Fig. 1. Time course of plasma nandrolone concentrations in 23 healthy men over 32 days after i.m. injection of 100 mg of nandrolone phenylpropionate in 4 ml of arachis oil vehicle into the gluteal muscle (group 1) () or injection of 100 mg of nandrolone decanoate into the gluteal muscle in 4 ml of arachis oil vehicle (group 2) (), into the gluteal muscle in 1 ml of arachis oil vehicle (group 3) () or into the deltoid muscle in 1 ml of arachis oil vehicle (group 4) (). Results are expressed as mean and S.E.M., unless the S.E. is smaller than symbol.

Another amazing effect shown in this study was NPP kept blood plasma levels fairly high for 3-4 days meaning that every day injections are not needed as commonly thought.

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thanks heavy...very informative...as always
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I have never really seen the enanthate version give the bang that the acetate does...Ive no idea why, but the acetate just seems to me to work much better.

holy
 
holyintellect said:
I have never really seen the enanthate version give the bang that the acetate does...Ive no idea why, but the acetate just seems to me to work much better.

holy
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The free equivalent is much higher with acetate than enanthate. Therefore acetate will be stronger mg for mg than enanthate.

Esters not only effect release times but also the potency of the hormone as esters make up part of the steroid weight. This must be taken into account when calculating dosages. The longer the release time the less free hormone. For example propionate is about 15% more potent mg. for mg. then enanthate so 500mg of propionate would equal about 575 mg. of enanthate. The following chart illustrates the free base equivalents for several compounds.
 

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heavyiron said:
The free equivalent is much higher with acetate than enanthate. Therefore acetate will be stronger mg for mg than enanthate.

Esters not only effect release times but also the potency of the hormone as esters make up part of the steroid weight. This must be taken into account when calculating dosages. The longer the release time the less free hormone. For example propionate is about 15% more potent mg. for mg. then enanthate so 500mg of propionate would equal about 575 mg. of enanthate. The following chart illustrates the free base equivalents for several compounds.
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I realize that, although its a very valid point. Even taking that into cosideration, Ive generally found the shorter esters (especially with tren) to be the better choice.

holy
 
There answer to the difference is the difference between the two esters. Here is a description of all the esters used in injectable steroids.

Acetate: Chemical Structure C2H4O2.
Also referred to as Acetic Acid; Ethylic acid; Vinegar acid; vinegar; Methanecarboxylic acid. Acetate esters delay the release of a steroid for only a couple of days. Contrary to what you may have read, acetate esters do not increase the tendency for fat removal. Again, there is no known mechanism for it to do so. This ester is used on oral primobolan tablets (metenolone acetate), Finaplix (trenbolone acetate) implant pellets, and occasionally testosterone.

Propionate: Chemical Structure C3H6O2.
Also referred to as Carboxyethane; hydroacrylic acid; Methylacetic acid; Ethylformic acid; Ethanecarboxylic acid; metacetonic acid; pseudoacetic acid; Propionic Acid. Propionate esters will slow the release of a steroid for several days. To keep blood levels from fluctuating greatly, propionate compounds are usually injected two to three times weekly. Testosterone propionate and methandriol dipropionate (two separate propionate esters attached to the parent steroid methandriol) are popular items.

Phenylpropionate: Chemical Structure C9H10O2.
Also referred to as Propionic Acid Phenyl Ester. Phenylpropionate will extend the release of active steroid a few days longer than propionate. To keep blood levels even, injections are given at least twice weekly. Durabolin is the drug most commonly seen with a phenylpropionate ester (nandrolone phenylpropionate), although it is also used with testosterone in Sustanon and Omnadren.

Isocarpoate: Chemical Structure C6H12O2.
Also referred to as Isocaproic Acid; isohexanoate; 4-methylvaleric acid. Isocaproate begins to near enanthate in terms of release. The duration is still shorter, with a notable hormone level being sustained for approximately one week. This ester is used with testosterone in the blended products Sustanon and Omnadren.

Caproate: Chemical Structure C6H12O2.
Also referred to as Hexanoic acid; hexanoate; n-Caproic Acid; n-Hexoic acid; butylacetic acid; pentiformic acid; pentylformic acid; n-hexylic acid; 1-pentanecarboxylic acid; hexoic acid; 1-hexanoic acid; Hexylic acid; Caproic acid. This ester is identical to isocarpoate in terms of atom count and weight, but is laid out slightly different (Isocaproate has a split configuration, difficult to explain here but easy to see on paper). Release duration would be very similar to isocaproate (levels sustained for approximately one weak), perhaps coming slightly closer to enanthate due to its straight chain. Caproate is the slowest releasing ester used in Omnadren, which is why most athletes notice more water retention with this compound.

Enanthate: Chemical Structure C7H14O2.
Also referred to as heptanoic acid; enanthic acid; enanthylic acid; heptylic acid; heptoic acid; Oenanthylic acid; Oenanthic acid. Enanthate is one of the most prominent esters used in steroid manufacture (most commonly seen with testosterone but is also used in other compounds like Primobolan Depot). Enanthate will release a steady (yet fluctuating as all esters are) level of hormone for approximately 10-14 days. Although in medicine enanthate compounds are often injected on a bi-weekly or monthly basis, athletes will inject at least weekly to help maintain a uniform blood level.

Cypionate: Chemical Structure C8H14O2.
Also referred to as Cyclopentylpropionic acid, cyclopentylpropionate. Cypionate is a very popular ester here in the U.S., although it is scarcely found outside this region. Its release duration is almost identical to enanthate (10-14 days), and the two are likewise thought to be interchangeable in U.S. medicine. Althletes commonly hold the belief than cypionate is more powerful than enanthate, although realistically there is little difference between the two. The enanthate ester is in fact slightly smaller than cypionate, and it therefore releases a small (perhaps a few milligrams) amount of steroid more in comparison.

Decanoate: Chemical Structure C10H20O2.
Also referred to as decanoic acid; capric acid; caprinic acid; decylic acid, Nonanecarboxylic acid. The Decanoate ester is most commonly used with the hormone nandrolone (as in Deca-Durabolin) and is found in virtually all corners of the world. Testosterone decanoate is also the longest acting constituent in Sustanon, greatly extending its release duration. The release time with Decanoate compounds is listed to be as long as one month, although most recently we are finding that levels seem to drop significantly after two weeks. To keep blood levels more uniform, athletes (as they have always known to do) will follow a weekly injection schedule.

Undecylenate: Chemical Structure C11H20O2.
Also referred to as Undecylenic acid; Hendecenoic acid; Undecenoic acid. This ester is very similar to decanoate, containing only one carbon atom more. Its release duration is likewise very similar (approximately 2-3 weeks), perhaps extending a day or so past that seen with decanoate. Undecylenate seems to be exclusive to the veterinary preparation Equipoise (boldenone undecylenate), although there is no reason it would not work well in human-use preparations (Equipoise certainly works fine for athletes). Again, weekly injections are most common.

Undecanoate: Chemical Structure C11H22O2.
Also referred to as Undecanoic Acid; 1-Decanecarboxylic acid; Hendecanoic acid; Undecylic acid. Undecanoate is not a commonly found ester, and only appears to be used in the nandrolone preparation Dynabolan, and oral testosterone undecanoate (Andriol). Since this ester is chemically very similar to undecylenate (it is only 2 hydrogen atoms larger), it has a similar release duration (approximately 2-3 weeks). Although this ester is used in the oral preparation Andriol, there is no reason to believe it carries any properties unique of other esters. Andriol in fact works very poorly at delivering testosterone, bolstering the idea that oral administration is not the idea use of esterified androgens.

Laurate: Chemical structure C12H24O2.
Also referred to as Dodecanoic acid, laurostearic acid, duodecyclic acid, 1-undecanecarboxylic acid, and dodecoic acid. Laurate is the longest releasing ester used in commercial steroid production, although longer acting esters do exist. Its release duration would be closer to one month than the other esters listed above, although realistically we are probably to expect a notable drop in hormone level after the third week. Laurate is exclusively found in the veterinary nandrolone preparation Laurabolin, perhaps seen as slightly advantageous over a decanoate ester due to a less frequent injection schedule. Again athletes will most commonly inject this drug weekly, no doubt in part due to its low strength (25mg/ml or 50mg/ml).
 
holyintellect said:
I realize that, although its a very valid point. Even taking that into cosideration, Ive generally found the shorter esters (especially with tren) to be the better choice.

holy
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Tren Ace is quite potent for sure. It is one of the strongest compounds I have ever taken.
 
I have used both and thought they were pretty equal in strengths. imo I also got the cough somewhat, but i hear that will always happen. Tren is not good for cardio thats for sure.
 
sounds like i should give it a shot (no pun intended) then. Will let yall know when I start so I can compare the sides between the two esters.
 
Personally I was taking 2cc of tren-e 250mg and 2cc of test-e 300mg a week. 1 shot would be 1cc tren-e and 1cc test-e on monday and thursday. I did this cycle for 3months. This was the strongest i have ever been, and the leanest. My bench was425lb.
When the test-e ran out i went to 4cc tren-e a week. I did this the last three weeks. that is when my strength really went up.
I would drink a lot of water when you take the tren. It is really hard on your kidneys. I would drink 1.5 to 2 gallons a day.
I loved the tren-e. Everytime i took a shot it could feel a rush and i would become flush. It was probably in my head, but the stuff made me feel great. I know they say that tren makes you overly aggeresive, but the only time I was aggeresive was when I was in the gym.
All I can say is that you will love the stuff.
 
hanks brother, got me feindin now LOL!...Step one is to admit you have a problem...Hello, my name is TexasTweeter, and I'm an alcoholic... JK
 
I know someone who likes Tren E over Tren A. They get a better result at the end of the cycle.. My last cycle was Test E/P Tren A.. I'm giving E a run and at a lower dose. My Tren Ace run was at 100mg ED and I was on about 6 months.

I like what you're doing.. I'm doing the same, well sorta..

Tbol ed wk 1-4 (not sure on the dose)
Test E - 500mg wk 1-16
Tren E - 400mg wk 1-12
EQ - 600mg wk 1-16
Anavar 60mg ed wk 12-16
 
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