Cissus
- Thread starter Tumey
- Start date
ryaroberts
Active member
i do about 3-4 grams a day. i would highly recommend capping it b/c it tastes like dirt (literally). other than that its an amazing product. im a firm believe in it now and i swear by it that cissus is the next big thing!
crazyfool405
Banned
just do not take it before or after your workout, night time would be best IMO
EIC
Member
Why not?
crazyfool405
Banned
crazyfool405
Banned
do you even know how much you have to take to inhibit cortisol? i believe its 5 grams, thats a lot, and combined with its anti inflammatory process its not a great muscle builder bro.
and PS it taste like complet ass
EIC
Member
I thought that was only true with NSAIDs, not Cissus. Do you mind me asking where you learned about this? I'd like to know more if that's the case.
crazyfool405
Banned
ClSSUS QUADRANGULARIS AND HEALING +ANALGESIC
2007 Mar 21;110
Analgesic, anti-inflammatory and venotonic effects of Cissus quadrangularis Linn.
Panthong A, Supraditaporn W, Kanjanapothi D, Taesotikul T, Reutrakul V.
Department of Pharmacology, Faculty of Medicine, Chiang Mai University, Chiang Mai 50200, Thailand. [email protected]
Cissus quadrangularis, a medicinal plant indigenous to Asia and Africa, is used for many ailments, especially for the treatment of hemorrhoid. The effects associated with hemorrhoid, i.e. analgesic and anti-inflammatory activities as well as the venotonic effect of the methanol extract of C. quadrangularis (CQ) were assessed in comparison with reference drugs. In the analgesic test, CQ provoked a significant reduction of the number of writhes in acetic acid-induced writhing response in mice. CQ also significantly reduced the licking time in both phases of the formalin test. The results suggest peripheral and central analgesic activity of CQ. In acute phase of inflammation CQ elicited the inhibitory effect on the edema formation of the rats' ear induced by ethyl phenylpropiolate as well as on the formation of the paw edema in rats induced by both carrageenin and arachidonic acid. It is likely that CQ is a dual inhibitor of arachidonic acid metabolism. In addition, CQ exerted venotonic effect on isolated human umbilical vein similarly to the mixture of bioflavonoids, i.e. 90% diosmin and 10% hesperidin. The results obtained confirmed the traditional use of C. quadrangularis for the treatment of pain and inflammation associated with hemorrhoid as well as reducing the size of hemorrhoids.
2007 Mar 21;110
Analgesic, anti-inflammatory and venotonic effects of Cissus quadrangularis Linn.
Panthong A, Supraditaporn W, Kanjanapothi D, Taesotikul T, Reutrakul V.
Department of Pharmacology, Faculty of Medicine, Chiang Mai University, Chiang Mai 50200, Thailand. [email protected]
Cissus quadrangularis, a medicinal plant indigenous to Asia and Africa, is used for many ailments, especially for the treatment of hemorrhoid. The effects associated with hemorrhoid, i.e. analgesic and anti-inflammatory activities as well as the venotonic effect of the methanol extract of C. quadrangularis (CQ) were assessed in comparison with reference drugs. In the analgesic test, CQ provoked a significant reduction of the number of writhes in acetic acid-induced writhing response in mice. CQ also significantly reduced the licking time in both phases of the formalin test. The results suggest peripheral and central analgesic activity of CQ. In acute phase of inflammation CQ elicited the inhibitory effect on the edema formation of the rats' ear induced by ethyl phenylpropiolate as well as on the formation of the paw edema in rats induced by both carrageenin and arachidonic acid. It is likely that CQ is a dual inhibitor of arachidonic acid metabolism. In addition, CQ exerted venotonic effect on isolated human umbilical vein similarly to the mixture of bioflavonoids, i.e. 90% diosmin and 10% hesperidin. The results obtained confirmed the traditional use of C. quadrangularis for the treatment of pain and inflammation associated with hemorrhoid as well as reducing the size of hemorrhoids.
Ares
Banned
Correct, COX-2 inhibitors will inhibit gains.
EIC
Member
Maybe I'm missing it (very likely), but I don't see anything in there that talks specifically about muscle growth. The fact that it is anti-inflammatory is not enough; it really depends on the way it is anti-inflammatory. For example, fish oil is anti-inflammatory but I've heard no claims that it inhibits muscle growth.
crazyfool405
Banned
.........
ari4216
Banned
im totally in on EIC on this one, youve cited evidence, but there is no proof that cissus is anti-anabolic. Fish oil is good for you,
antioxidants are especially good taken around workout times!
During exercisem you produce nitric oxide, and nitric oxide causes more free radicals to form, and therefore antioxidants will help take care of these free radicals
antioxidants are especially good taken around workout times!
During exercisem you produce nitric oxide, and nitric oxide causes more free radicals to form, and therefore antioxidants will help take care of these free radicals
ari4216
Banned
THE SCIENCE
"Cissus quadrangularis is an ancient medicinal plant native to the hotter parts of Ceylon and India. It was prescribed in the
ancient Ayurvedic texts as a general tonic and analgesic, with specific bone fracture healing properties. Modern research has
shed light on Cissus' ability to speed bone healing by showing it acts as a glucocorticoid antagonist (1,2).
Since anabolic/androgenic compounds are well known to act as antagonists to the glucocorticoid receptor as well as promote bone growth and fracture healing, it has been postulated that Cissus possesses anabolic and/or androgenic properties (1,3).
In addition to speeding the remodeling process of the healing bone, Cissus also leads to a much faster increase in bone tensile strength. In clinical trials Cissus has led to a fracture healing time on the order of 55 to 33 percent of that of controls. That cissus exerts antiglucocorticoid properties is suggested by a number of studies where bones were weakend by treatment with cortisol, and upon administration of Cissus extract the cortisol induced weakening was halted, and the healing process began.
While the increased rate of bone healing may be of great significance to persons suffering from chronic diseases like osteoporosis (4), the antiglucocorticoid properties of Cissus are likely of much more interest to the average bodybuilder or athlete, since endogenous glucocorticoids, particularly cortisol, are not only catabolic to bone, but catabolize muscle
tissue as well. Numerous studies over the years have suggested that glucorticoids, including the body's endogenous hormone cortisol activate pathways that degrade not only bone, but skeletal muscle tissue as well.
A recently published report documented exactly how glucocorticoids (including cortisol) induce muscle breakdown: They activate the so-called ubiquitin-proteasome pathway of proteolysis (5). This pathway of tissue breakdown is important for removing damaged and non-functional proteins. However, when it is overactive during periods of elevated cortisol (e.g disease states, stress, and over-training) excess amounts of normal tissue are broken down as well. By exerting an anabolic, antiglucorticoid effect cissus helps preserve muscle tissue during times of physical and emotional stress."
"Cissus quadrangularis is an ancient medicinal plant native to the hotter parts of Ceylon and India. It was prescribed in the
ancient Ayurvedic texts as a general tonic and analgesic, with specific bone fracture healing properties. Modern research has
shed light on Cissus' ability to speed bone healing by showing it acts as a glucocorticoid antagonist (1,2).
Since anabolic/androgenic compounds are well known to act as antagonists to the glucocorticoid receptor as well as promote bone growth and fracture healing, it has been postulated that Cissus possesses anabolic and/or androgenic properties (1,3).
In addition to speeding the remodeling process of the healing bone, Cissus also leads to a much faster increase in bone tensile strength. In clinical trials Cissus has led to a fracture healing time on the order of 55 to 33 percent of that of controls. That cissus exerts antiglucocorticoid properties is suggested by a number of studies where bones were weakend by treatment with cortisol, and upon administration of Cissus extract the cortisol induced weakening was halted, and the healing process began.
While the increased rate of bone healing may be of great significance to persons suffering from chronic diseases like osteoporosis (4), the antiglucocorticoid properties of Cissus are likely of much more interest to the average bodybuilder or athlete, since endogenous glucocorticoids, particularly cortisol, are not only catabolic to bone, but catabolize muscle
tissue as well. Numerous studies over the years have suggested that glucorticoids, including the body's endogenous hormone cortisol activate pathways that degrade not only bone, but skeletal muscle tissue as well.
A recently published report documented exactly how glucocorticoids (including cortisol) induce muscle breakdown: They activate the so-called ubiquitin-proteasome pathway of proteolysis (5). This pathway of tissue breakdown is important for removing damaged and non-functional proteins. However, when it is overactive during periods of elevated cortisol (e.g disease states, stress, and over-training) excess amounts of normal tissue are broken down as well. By exerting an anabolic, antiglucorticoid effect cissus helps preserve muscle tissue during times of physical and emotional stress."
ari4216
Banned
The mechanism through which Cissus exerts its analgesic and anti-inflammatory properties has not been well characterized. It may act centrally, but the anti-inflammatory features suggest that it acts by preventing the conversion of arachidonic acid to inflammatory prostaglandins.
they dont know how it works as an-antiinflammtory
they dont know how it works as an-antiinflammtory
crazyfool405
Banned
that company write up doesnt count, and as far as being anti cortisol ect, those studies are 40 years old bro.
and yes anti oxidents are great, i think they are fine to be taken around a workout,
fish oil yes its great, but too much can inhibit gains. im not talking about regular dosing. im talking excessive amounts.
cissus works by inhibiting the formation of arachodonic acid which is key tp prostoglandin formation and protein synthesis. and thus muscle building.
also that company write up, the 2 articles that come close to saying anything about anti cortisol, the studies cannot be found.
EIC
Member
Well isn't this a pisser. Here I was gonna take PrimaForce to iron out some joint pain/tendonitis in my right shoulder. Damn. Are there any alternatives?
crazyfool405
Banned
crazyfool405
Banned
well not to add fuel to the fire but i stooped taking my cissus post workout and put on 1.4 pounds
ari4216
Banned
in what time frame?
EIC
Member
Kind of off topic, but does cissus have any benefit from short-term use? I mean, is it like Advil in the sense that as soon as you stop the pain will come back, or does it fix things sufficiently that you can drop it after, say, a couple months (unless re-injury occurs). If the latter, then this issue is largely irrelevant (since a couple months of sub-optimal protein synthesis is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things). You dig?
crazyfool405
Banned
1.5 weeks
crazyfool405
Banned
for bone health 3-5 grams is what was used to help healing of fractures, good luck handleing that taste though.
it was used for 21 days and helped signifigantly...
ari4216
Banned
alright WOW 1.6 pounds in 1.5 weeks that could easily be water and glycogen. How much did u gain after the 1.5 weeks. Did you experience increased soreness in those 1.5 weeks.
Sorry for being a little sarcastic in my comment, i think ur a smart guy, but some of the stuff u point out is silly.
crazyfool405
Banned
ive been off PCT for a Week and i think it was about 2 weeks not 1.5 weeks since i stopped the cissus but its anywhere between 1.5 and 2 weeks, since i stopped. and im not taking any aditional supps and my diet this weekend consisted of 2 less meals then normal. it was quite suprising to me, but being that i stopped PCT and i stopped cissus, one would only think. after my leg workout the day after i finished PCT my legs where extremly sore.
but like i have said i found it weird, either way thats how it is. and you cant just shrug it off, there should be no reason that me waking up this morning dehydrated and on low meals during the weekend that it would be increased glycogen. because thats depleted in your sleep as it is,
crazyfool405
Banned
as can i , during the day , but im talking about a week and a half, and only one thing really changed, and it wason 4 meals saturday and sunday. then weight myself fasted in the AM after 10 hours and that was my weight increase
crazyfool405
Banned
i was using supercissus RX i believe it was, it came in a black ziplock, and it was bulk cissus
absolute quality bulk supercissus it was called from BB dot com and its now discontinued according to them(as of oct 2 2008). i was just looking
crazyfool405
Banned
u mean you are going to try it? lol:cheers: hope it works out for u like it did for me....
in my posts im not trying to be a ****. i hope i dont come off that way, just trying to be helpful bro
i never used cissus every day, just the 4 days a week i trained and i drank it with my waxymaize. so yea..