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Hulking again with Havoc!

monsterbox

monsterbox

Well-known member
The Stats:
5' 7.5'', 178lbs, 27.9 bmi, 15+ in. arms...need to take chest

The History:
January 6, 2008 - 151lbs
April-May - Havoc Cycle 20/20/30/30/30 -from 159.5 to 170.5
July - 18 days of 3-AD (hated it) - 173lbs
Currently - 177.5lbs

Background with Havoc:
Loved havoc the first time, no sides except lethargy, left nut shrinkage, lower abdomin cramps. I HATED PCT. Used nolva and my sex drive was NON-EXISTANT the day I started pct. I also did not inversely taper into an AI and had itchy nipples for a few days.

Goals This Time:
Consume 5-8k Calories, 225x10 on bench, 90lb Dumbell Press, Have LIBIDO!!!! During cycle and after!

The Plan:
30/30/30/30 (maybe throw in 40 last week)

I force Reversitol for PCT (need help on this guys) 3/2/2/1 or
two bottles 3/3/2/2/2/1/1 or 4/3/2/2/1/1 or what??

Genuine Tamoxifen Citrate on hand (but avoid unless emergency) I think it kills libido!

Support Supps:
Taurine
Liv52
DHEA - dosed 50mg for some estro support (keep libido up)
Super Cissus RX - 4pills/day
1200mg Fish Oil - 6pills
Tribulus 500mg - 2-3pills/day
B-6 50mg-2pills/day keep prolactin low
2 gallons of water

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At 160.5lbs

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170.5lbs

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Day 2 30mg 177.5lbs


Questions:

Will running 30 all the way through make pct with reversitol risky?

Do I need 2 bottles of reversitol?

Should I purchase testabolen or some other kind of test booster for PCT?

Is it ok to use reversitol if my nuts are shruken or is that a tell-tale sign that I need to use nolva until my nuts are back?

I HATE NOLVA
 
Day 1

Chizzling the Chest:

205-5,5,5,5,2
Incline 155-10,8,6
DB Flys - 50x8, 55x7, 55x7
Cable Flys - Setting 4 10,10,8 (superset with pushups)
Tricep Kickbacks - 30lbs 10, 10, 10
Tricep Rope - Setting 8 - 10,10,7
Dips - 10,10,10
Abs - mixture of ****

Sides: None
Positives: Increased pump, well being, "mind" endurance
 
partyman43 said:
:clap2:Good gains!.

Just wondering what your Calorie/protien intake was for first cycle of Havoc?
Click to expand...

not very consistant. Probably 2-3k max, hopefully 150 grams :/ I worked out very seriously and I gained 11lbs UPPER BODY ONLY.

This time i'm going balls out with diet. After the first havoc run i dropped 4lbs of my gains. I ate very strictly this summer and have come back from 166.5 to 178-180 (naturally).

Im in college so I don't have much time for 6 meals/day like this summer. However I have access to all-you-can-eat at every meal.

Typically I eat like 7 plates of food (people looking at my like i'm some kind of freak)...3 time per day plus weight gainer shake in the morning and sometimes at night, along with some penut butter, banannas throughout the day, and 3-4 raw eggs.

Id say now i'm consuming probably 2k at each meal easily! I eat anything and everything. IDC about gaining some fat because I try so hard and don't on havoc! So pretty much around 5-6k per day now...thats twice the intake of last cycle plus I will throw in lower body again (squatting 315 on smith now)
 
Day 3 - Legish

Took 20mg at 10:00am
Took 10mg at 3:00pm before workout.

Squatted 275 on smith machine (trying to take an easy as I do hardcore biking around this huge campus every day as my means of transporation) 275 10x3

Basic leg presses, calf work, pullups widegrip and close, and ran half mile.

My routine:
M- Chest/Tri
T- Light Legs/Cardio
W-Shoulders/Abs
Th-Rest/Light Chest
Fri-Back/Biceps

Sides: Headache, head pressure, feel really warm, unfocused/confused emotionally a tiny bit

Starting to feel really pumped up all day
 
Day 4 - Shoulders

Milltary Press - 135 10x2, 155x6 Smith Machine (PR)
Shoulder Press Machine - 90 10x2
Lateral Raises w/ Cables - 10x1 Setting3 (PR) 10x2 (Setting2)
Rear Delt - Setting 3 10x3
Shrug Machine - 6 45lb Plates Sitting and Stand 10x3 (PR)
Light Tricep Machine Work

Comments:
Workout was pretty decent. I kind of feel like havoc is only picking up the slack of coming of creatine. I feel like I'm simply on the loading phase of monohydrate w/ the amount of pumps and strength. Nothing ungodly yet...but its only day 4.

Scale:
177.5

Sides:
None today.
 
when you first ran havoc what was it like???
what gains did you get and what sides did u get from it
first time usre to pros. just wanted some insite to havoc
 
KoZyKaKs said:
when you first ran havoc what was it like???
what gains did you get and what sides did u get from it
first time usre to pros. just wanted some insite to havoc
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"The History:
January 6, 2008 - 151lbs
April-May - Havoc Cycle 20/20/30/30/30 -from 159.5 to 170.5
July - 18 days of 3-AD (hated it) - 173lbs
Currently - 177.5lbs

Background with Havoc:
Loved havoc the first time, no sides except lethargy, left nut shrinkage, lower abdomin cramps. I HATED PCT. Used nolva and my sex drive was NON-EXISTANT the day I started pct. I also did not inversely taper into an AI and had itchy nipples for a few days."
 
Been reading that lots of people are experiencing gyno after havoc PCT...delayed gyno. I had itchy nipples for 2 days after my PCT at week 6 last time.

Should I extend my reversitol to 2 bottles over 8 week so I have the support of AI's SLOWLY ramping down?
 
Day 5 - Back/Biceps

Insane back/bicep workout. PR on just about everything.

THIS STUFF HAS KICKED IN.

Pump was unbelieveable....absolutely jaw dropping huge in the mirror...pump made me look stupid huge, I can't believe the nitrogen retention of this product. I simply forgot how insane the blood flow is on havoc. Nothing compares period.

Too give you an idea, I weighed 181.5lbs after my workout and 178 before....thats how much water went to my muscles
 
monsterbox said:
Been reading that lots of people are experiencing gyno after havoc PCT...delayed gyno. I had itchy nipples for 2 days after my PCT at week 6 last time.

Should I extend my reversitol to 2 bottles over 8 week so I have the support of AI's SLOWLY ramping down?
Click to expand...

bump
 
Awesome dude,... you rock,. and I'm still soakin' up knowledge.
 
you definately responded well to havoc..impresive vascularity on the pics..im contiplating running that around nov/dec. myself. keep us posted dood.
 
delayed gyno is usually due to incorrect PCT. Here is my normal PCT:
week 1-4: Nolva 40/40/20/20
week 3-6: AI (usually 6oxo) starting high and tapering dose over these weeks also use Lean Xtreme through this time for cort control

*some people start the AI week one and slowly ramp up the dosage then bring it down

Mine was designed after PA's column in MD when he spoke about delayed gyno and SD. And when to introduce an AI.

Some people say you dont need nolva with Havoc and other compounds but I like it just as insurance. Better to be safe than sorry.

Getting ready to start a Havoc and a 19-nor ("tren") cycle.
 
Liftingstud said:
delayed gyno is usually due to incorrect PCT. Here is my normal PCT:
week 1-4: Nolva 40/40/20/20
week 3-6: AI (usually 6oxo) starting high and tapering dose over these weeks also use Lean Xtreme through this time for cort control

*some people start the AI week one and slowly ramp up the dosage then bring it down

Mine was designed after PA's column in MD when he spoke about delayed gyno and SD. And when to introduce an AI.

Some people say you dont need nolva with Havoc and other compounds but I like it just as insurance. Better to be safe than sorry.

Getting ready to start a Havoc and a 19-nor ("tren") cycle.
Click to expand...


40,40,20,20 is somewhat high a dose for nolva on this one(havoc)or any one IMO, but if it works why change it...just a little harsh on the liver.
I would think that 20,20,10,10 would suffice though:woohoo:
 
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Liftingstud said:
delayed gyno is usually due to incorrect PCT. Here is my normal PCT:
week 1-4: Nolva 40/40/20/20
week 3-6: AI (usually 6oxo) starting high and tapering dose over these weeks also use Lean Xtreme through this time for cort control

*some people start the AI week one and slowly ramp up the dosage then bring it down

Mine was designed after PA's column in MD when he spoke about delayed gyno and SD. And when to introduce an AI.

Some people say you dont need nolva with Havoc and other compounds but I like it just as insurance. Better to be safe than sorry.

Getting ready to start a Havoc and a 19-nor ("tren") cycle.
Click to expand...

Interesting, I guess the same rules would apply for Nolva, then Letro instead of 6oxo as your AI? (no hijack sorry :) )
 
Day 8

I have been off friday, saturday, and today.

30mg/Day so Far....2 upon waking 1 mid-day.

Starting to feel huge...everyone is noticing I look alot fuller. I just feel bigger. My muscles feel kina of pumped like creatine loading phase, all day without the bloat.

Sides:
sometimes i'm just very chill. No emotions. No happiness/anger just nothing. People will ask me whats wrong because I'm just sitting there saying nothing.

Slight stomach cramps/lower abdomin pain very slight. May be the nuts starting to shrink but is this possible in first week?

Definitely looking forward to chest workout tommorrow afternoon!

Pro:
Sex Drive is awesome! Through the roof around G/F. I've been taking DHEA at 50mg each night along with 1000mg trib during the day and 100mg B6 to combat any type of prolactin build up.


Notes:

Must say 30mg feels like 20mg on the first cycle on these off days. It could be because of the fact that I weigh 20+ lbs more and dosage is not as effective.
 
looking good man, you just helped me decide to give havoc a try. You can definately see the difference in your pics and just wondering what your going to be like after this cycle.. keep posting..
 
Day 9 - Chest

Wow.

Felt pumped all day. No sides. Very horny! This weekend I was VERY lethargic, but I took some DHEA at 50mg this morning and I feel a ton better.

Chest:
BB Bp 205 5x5, 215x5, 225x3 (PR)
Db Incline 65 10x3 (pr was 75 :(
Dips
Tricep Kickbacks 30lb DB 10x1, 25lb 10x2
Tricep Cable Pushdowns Setting 9 10x2
Db Flys 50lbs 10x2
Cable Flys Setting 4,3,3 10x3

Bench press was way up in endurance and weight. I think this is why my other chest stuff was below past PR. But, my tri's were alot stronger. Mental endurance is great. Pump was pretty damn good...not as great as back/bi day but good!

Scale:
182.5!
+5lbs Solid!....almost 3 weeks left!
 
Day 10

Off-today. I hit it real hard yesterday. Going to do a strenuous workout tommorrow. Shoulders+Squats+Legs+Abs

Lots of lethargy+depressive feelings this afternoon. I just wanted to be alone and sleep. Slowly climbed out of it after a nap and dinner.

Feel like maybe the left boy is starting to shrink like last time...alot of times I believe its just in my head, but i've heard you can start shrinking after 3 days. Is this true or does it really take more than 4 weeks to cause atrophy?
 
please dont neg me lol, but you know guys, this is my second cycle and i'm kinda bored. Its just not as exciting as the first one. I think I had alot of placebo effect last time. I'm really contemplating throwing in something new like phera:think: for the last 3 weeks at a low dose....definitely not a decision made but just an idea
 
monsterbox said:
please dont neg me lol, but you know guys, this is my second cycle and i'm kinda bored. Its just not as exciting as the first one. I think I had alot of placebo effect last time. I'm really contemplating throwing in something new like phera:think: for the last 3 weeks at a low dose....definitely not a decision made but just an idea
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alot of placebo effect um did you even look at your pics :fool2: just waiting now to see when you finish up this cycle and post up pics. I just got my havoc today and im stacking it with bold 200.. It was cause your gains/pics that i chose to go with havoc.. I just think its kicking in real good for you right now and your getting the sides of depression/not fealing big is why your talking like your talking. Maybe throw some bold in there and see if that helps.. Anyway keep us updated, see your up 5 or so lbs so far :woohoo:
 
yo u look good man ! i am around the same size as you b4 u started with less bf % i am 5 6 151 around 8-9 % bf ... i am contemplating trying this ...

4 week Epistane pulse

Dosing schedule:

M/W/F

wk.1 30/30/30 (20pre//10post) 90Mg
wk.2 30/30/30 (20pre//10post) 90Mg
wk.3 30/30/30 (20pre//10post) 90Mg
wk.4 40/40/40 (20pre//20post) 120Mg

390Mg of a 900mg bottle (gonna make another run most likely right b4 summer for 6 weeks this is more of just a trail run)

While ON cycle :

Anabolic Innovation's Life Support 60 servings (2caps Tuesday/Thursday/Sa/Su 32 servings while ON cycle) + (28 servings POST CYCLE)

MassFx – (2caps Tuesday/Thursday/Sa/Su 32 servings while ON cycle) + (28 servings POST CYCLE)


PCT :

Life Support 2 caps a day.. 28 days

MassFx 2caps a day 28 days
 
THEGEEZ said:
yo u look good man ! i am around the same size as you b4 u started with less bf % i am 5 6 151 around 8-9 % bf ... i am contemplating trying this ...

4 week Epistane pulse

Dosing schedule:

M/W/F

wk.1 30/30/30 (20pre//10post) 90Mg
wk.2 30/30/30 (20pre//10post) 90Mg
wk.3 30/30/30 (20pre//10post) 90Mg
wk.4 40/40/40 (20pre//20post) 120Mg

390Mg of a 900mg bottle (gonna make another run most likely right b4 summer for 6 weeks this is more of just a trail run)

While ON cycle :

Anabolic Innovation's Life Support 60 servings (2caps Tuesday/Thursday/Sa/Su 32 servings while ON cycle) + (28 servings POST CYCLE)

MassFx – (2caps Tuesday/Thursday/Sa/Su 32 servings while ON cycle) + (28 servings POST CYCLE)


PCT :

Life Support 2 caps a day.. 28 days

MassFx 2caps a day 28 days
Click to expand...


in all humble opinion. **** pulsing. its just a beat-around-bush. If you want to use steroids use them, don't play with them. Just run it 20/20/30/30 gain your ten pounds and run reversitol with a serm on hand like me. Yeah you'll shut down more and have more sides but you'll also look back after its all over and it will be worth the ride. What if you pulse up to 40mg and still shut down like alot of people experience...and only gain 5lbs?
 
about to hit up the shoulders and squats today! going to get some new pics....it will be the 11 day check up shot

getting sick of seeing all these logs with no pictures....ill keep you guys updated w/ progress thanks for the subs
 
monsterbox said:
in all humble opinion. **** pulsing. its just a beat-around-bush. If you want to use steroids use them, don't play with them. Just run it 20/20/30/30 gain your ten pounds and run reversitol with a serm on hand like me. Yeah you'll shut down more and have more sides but you'll also look back after its all over and it will be worth the ride. What if you pulse up to 40mg and still shut down like alot of people experience...and only gain 5lbs?
Click to expand...

that's your opinion i see what your saying i just think pulsing is alot safer or run 2 weeks on 2 weeks off 2 weeks on 2 weeks off would be safer also ..
 
THEGEEZ said:
that's your opinion i see what your saying i just think pulsing is alot safer or run 2 weeks on 2 weeks off 2 weeks on 2 weeks off would be safer also ..
Click to expand...

def 2 weeks on 2 weeks off sounds more promising....i've gained a good 4lbs of lbm in 11 days...you could do 2 weeks on 2 weeks off and prob get a good 6-8lbs
 
monsterbox said:
def 2 weeks on 2 weeks off sounds more promising....i've gained a good 4lbs of lbm in 11 days...you could do 2 weeks on 2 weeks off and prob get a good 6-8lbs
Click to expand...

yes def i haven't made up my mind just yet tho i have time i dont think i am gonna be taking anything for another yr anyways
 
bubagump said:
alot of placebo effect um did you even look at your pics :fool2: just waiting now to see when you finish up this cycle and post up pics. I just got my havoc today and im stacking it with bold 200.. It was cause your gains/pics that i chose to go with havoc.. I just think its kicking in real good for you right now and your getting the sides of depression/not fealing big is why your talking like your talking. Maybe throw some bold in there and see if that helps.. Anyway keep us updated, see your up 5 or so lbs so far :woohoo:
Click to expand...

why are you stacking havoc with bold? Bold cycles need to be 8-12 weeks in length and the dose has to be 600-1000mg. Really takes a while before it kicks in.
 
monsterbox said:
please dont neg me lol, but you know guys, this is my second cycle and i'm kinda bored. Its just not as exciting as the first one. I think I had alot of placebo effect last time. I'm really contemplating throwing in something new like phera:think: for the last 3 weeks at a low dose....definitely not a decision made but just an idea
Click to expand...

I wouldnt go with phera just because I am not a fan of two methyls especially phera and SD due to there high toxicty.

I am currently on day 3 of Havoc 30mg/day and cyclotren 70mg/day. Have run Havoc by itself and really liked it and responded well. So far so good this time too. Very intense pumps in the gym when I lift which has been increasing in intensity each day. Cant wait til the 2nd week and have both rocking for a full week. The pumps today doing legs were almost painful, thats how intense they were. When I did leg press and squats when I finished the sets my legs BLEW UP! Throbbing pumps and loved every second. Back is tomorrow then chest fri.
 
Day 11 Shoulders

OMFG.

Crazy workout today.

Millitary Press - 135x10, 155x10, 155x8
Shoulder Press DB - 45x10, 45x10, 45x9
Shoulder Press Machine - 80lbs each side
Cable Lat Extensions - Setting 3 8,8,8
Front Raises, Rediculous Shrugs, etc....

Every single thing was a PR by a few lbs/reps

Pump felt great...not too intense...I used white flood today too...would expect more of a painful pump but no cramping etc.

Weight before workout 180 (mouth was dry-dehydrated) after workout and hydrating alot 183

Def. up at least 4lbs LBM
 
Brolic said:
B-6 50mg-2pills/day keep prolactin low

whats up with prolactin
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nothing...just noticed that taking b-6 reduces the "recovery" time between sex. On havoc and def. on nolva during pct, recovery time is ALOT longer...with b-6 i'm ready to go again pretty quick
 
Liftingstud said:
why are you stacking havoc with bold? Bold cycles need to be 8-12 weeks in length and the dose has to be 600-1000mg. Really takes a while before it kicks in.
Click to expand...


thats exactly what im doing. bold 200 is just the name of it if you were wondering, im doing the first wk @ 400 then bump to 600.. I have used the real deal in the past (d-bol,drol,test e,test c, sust 250,eq aka bold,winny) might have missed one or two. Dont have the connections right now for that kind of stuff and figured i would give the otc stuff a shot, hell its legal so why not. My best cycle was test e @ 750, eq @ 400 and d-bol @ 50mg a day. Miss thoes days but anyway giving this stuff a go.
 
well planning out the PCT now.

Heres what I have.

75 pills of reversitol...enough for 3/2/2/2/2-1/1 (6 weeks)
500mg Pills of Tribulus
500mg Pills of Maca-Root
Ejaculoid (contains gaba,longjack,maca,trib..etc)
30-20mg pills of Tamox-Citrate (hate this ****ing ****)


Expectation:
I bet I will shutdown pretty good like last time. Some definite shrinkage. I noticed last time that nolva didn't bring my nuts back all the way and it just took time, even though my strength was fine, sex was fine, mood was fine...

SO, I'm not expecting miracles with I-Force Reversitol..i'm just hoping to get by without having to take the Tamoxifene.

So IF and WHEN, I finished reversitol my nuts are NOT all the way back in size, is this dangerous to say PCT is complete even if I feel fine?

Is it a must that nuts all the way back = back to normal?

I've heard you can have higher than normal test levels even with still shrunken nuts?? So im just wondering


No one ever talks about testicular atrophy = pct requirements. I mean alot of people get by with OTC PCT with alot of PH. And Alot of people don't. Id like to see results of

Shurken Nuts = still succesful OTC PCT or Shrunken Nuts Automatically = SERM, HCG, or Clomid
 
Day 12

off day today. Planned on doing some squats and leg work, but feeling shitty. Really stressed from hard classes. Sinuses are acting up. Going to give it a rest. Apetite is down as well.

Decided to pull up an old picture from 2007. Eight month tranformation. If any of you bb'ers are feeling down look back on your skinny days it keeps you satisfied with your cycle! Using this as my motivation to keep pushing for 200lbs!

8 months ago
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add 40lbs...yesterday
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monsterbox said:
off day today. Planned on doing some squats and leg work, but feeling shitty. Really stressed from hard classes. Sinuses are acting up. Going to give it a rest. Apetite is down as well.

Decided to pull up an old picture from 2007. Eight month tranformation. If any of you bb'ers are feeling down look back on your skinny days it keeps you satisfied with your cycle! Using this as my motivation to keep pushing for 200lbs!

8 months ago
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add 40lbs...yesterday
Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...


ha ha ha when i started reading your post i seen the pic first and was like, man your looking small,maybe its the lighting in the pic but your old pics you look so much bigger. Then i read what you posted how its an older pic and then i scrolled down to see the updated pic. Had me thinking havoc isnt doing much for you this time around but the recent pic you just posted says other wise.. :woohoo: keep it up..
Now im the oposite of you when you say look back to your skinny pics to keep up the motivation, i have to look back to my fat ass pics/clothes to see my transformation. Use to be 285 out of breath,can't time my shoes mofo and now curising the high 220's low 230's and trying to cut alot more with this havoc/bold cycle and get down to the 200's or so. Looks like the same goals but we started in different directions...
 
monsterbox said:
Been reading that lots of people are experiencing gyno after havoc PCT...delayed gyno. I had itchy nipples for 2 days after my PCT at week 6 last time.

Should I extend my reversitol to 2 bottles over 8 week so I have the support of AI's SLOWLY ramping down?
Click to expand...

a couple of things I would always keep NOLVA "on hand" in case gyno becomes a problem even if you don't plan on using it...

IMO with a compound like Havoc I wouldn't skip on a SERM in PCT when it comes to jump starting your natural goods...I use to use NOLVA and had the same libido issues...I have since switched to using Torem as a SERM in PCT and love it...you should look into it...it helps recovery much quicker for me

I would go with a combo of Torem and reversitol
 
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