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Icariin / Testofen : The Thundergod Stack

Sin, that's some great info. Much appreciated :cheers:

For those who were waiting for the serm discussion info, the latest information includes the following in celc's cliff notes format :)

Nolva and Ralox have high affinity for breast tissue.
This is good for gyno prevention and reduction.

Clomid has a high affinity for gonadotrope cells in the brain (I was mistaken when I said at the gonads).
This alters mood but is good for the hpta cascade starting with GnRH-->LH.
 
Word on the Clomid for HTPA recovery. Although, you certainly can't rule out Ralox as useful for HTPA recovery. From my experience, it did actually over-regulating my HTPA. It was kinda scary.

Thundergod,

Dude, how long is your reach? Your arms are HUGE (lengthwise and girthwise).
 
thesinner said:
Word on the Clomid for HTPA recovery. Although, you certainly can't rule out Ralox as useful for HTPA recovery. From my experience, it did actually over-regulating my HTPA. It was kinda scary.

Thundergod,

Dude, how long is your reach? Your arms are HUGE (lengthwise and girthwise).
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Clomid is my personal favorite. Blows up da ballz. Big-time!! I'm not sure how long my reach is bro. How do you properly measure it? I'll do so and get back to you. But yeah, I've got really long arms. It was a hard task in filling them out too. Believe me!!
 
Sin, are there any testofen effects that would resemble effects from the furazabol? Or am I comparing cantalopes to watermelons? If so, do u think things could go to the next level with aggressive dosing, maybe in the 10g range or something like that?

Also, good feedback on Ralox bro. At the same time, keep in mind that at your age your hpta should be pretty darn resiliant regardless of your post cycle plan.

Day 18

I'm noticing a real nice overall hardening effect lately. It's lasting all day after workouts. There's also some nice vascularity during workouts as well, although that's not sticking around all day.

It's possilbe that the testofen is kicking in a bit because I've a slight irritability over the past 2 days. Maybe a hint of aggression. No zits or hair loss, but it's possilbe that I'm having a "mini" test boost. And if not, I'm gonna placebo that idea hardcore :head: Ha Ha

Libido is still shaky but male performance has been nice. I suspect a mild pde5-inhibitor -esque effect, with girth and length. Also, I was able to keep up and go 2 rounds this afternoon so I'm happy about that as well.

Finally, the gas situation has been resolved with Gut Health within 3 days. This is my third time in the past year that I've picked up a bottle of that stuff and it works as expected every time.
 
ive always been a fan of ralox, but for different reasons. this info is good news. btw i ran across an ids testofen product, anyone have any info. some good info here.
 
Testofen gives me gas. Fenugreek is a natural laxative/GI tract lubricant, from what I've read... Glad to hear the Gut Health took care of it!
 
Jaidmaster said:
Testofen gives me gas. Fenugreek is a natural laxative/GI tract lubricant, from what I've read... Glad to hear the Gut Health took care of it!
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Hmm, maybe I had the wrong culprit then? Son of a biitch, I really like the effects of this stack.

It's ironic that you brought this up because the gas problem came back yesterday. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the Gut Health will do the trick. I'm gonna give it some time though, as I'm not one to make knee-jerk reactions.
 
Day 22

Sadly, the gas has gotten the better of me. [Edited by celc] I'm going to modify my dosing based on Jaidmasters's suggestion that Fenugreek acts like a laxative. For now, I've decided to completely drop testofen from the stack. I've tried with food, empty stomach, adding Gut Health, splitting up dosages... even to the point that I was taking from 5-8 caps per day 1 at a time between meals (300-350mg per cap btw).

So as of today, my new dosing protocol is:
350mg HGW 4x/day

After a few days, I'll know for sure what was the culprit. If my stomach is being more agreeable, I'll double up on the dosages.

I'm seriously bummed because the potency of this stack is better than any supposed test booster that I've tried in the past. I was even noticing some pretty good muscle hardness over the past few days, which makes it even tougher for me to drop the fen.
 
Have you tried reducing the dosage?
And for the record, I did not advise to drop it - that's for you (and those around you?) to decide! :)
I'm in the same boat - tough to deal with all the gas. I now only use it a few times a week - not sure I'm getting anything out of it, but it's there, might as well use it...

Good luck!
Keep us posted.
 
Jaidmaster said:
Have you tried reducing the dosage?
And for the record, I did not advise to drop it - that's for you (and those around you?) to decide! :)
I'm in the same boat - tough to deal with all the gas. I now only use it a few times a week - not sure I'm getting anything out of it, but it's there, might as well use it...

Good luck!
Keep us posted.
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Good point, poor wording on my part. I edited to more clearly express my thoughts :cheers:

Ya, I've went as low as 2 caps per day (600mg) and it lessened the symptoms. The issue is, at that dosage, I question effectiveness.

Well, if I was gaining lean mass, I'd fart the whole effin town away and enjoy the benefits. I try to fairly weigh benefits vs. sides with all of my supplements and cycles. Did I think the testofen was effective? Hell ya, especially in that third week! Was it worth making my entire social circle cringe when they saw me coming? Unfortunately no.
 
celc5 said:
I'm seriously bummed because the potency of this stack is better than any supposed test booster that I've tried in the past. I was even noticing some pretty good muscle hardness over the past few days, which makes it even tougher for me to drop the fen.
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I agree with this statement. And I'm glad I haven't had the gas issues that you encountered celc. Because I really do enjoy this little combo during my PCT's.
 
thundergod said:
I agree with this statement. And I'm glad I haven't had the gas issues that you encountered celc. Because I really do enjoy this little combo during my PCT's.
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Ya it's been a pretty cool stack. I'm gonna assess tolerance carefully with the HGW and report back as I try to ramp that dosage back up without the testofen.
 
celc, i just finished a bottle of dermacrine good stuff. i got the pct tabs by ids, good, good, good stuff. i think this stuff does have low dose aspire in it, libido is crazy and i get a little congested when i take it. not like full dose aspire, but very, very similar. i never got the libido boost with aspire, just the 'performance' but this stuff will make you crazy. i really like it.
 
bigT, that's some good feedback on dermacrine and pct tabs. I like how you see feedback and then just pick some up to try it for yourself :head:

Day 25

Within 24 hours of stopping the testofen, the gas problem stopped. I am adding a short review to the first post for testofen. I'd give it a thumbsup if it were not for the gas.

For a few days, I ran the HGW at about 350mg x 4 (1 cap, 4 times per day). Now, I'm running it at 2 caps or 700mg x 3. Libido is up again with that dosing scheme and I'm not really experiencing any gassy sides.

My overall supplementation includes:

Lean Extreme (3 caps)
NOW Trib (3g)
HGW (2.1g)
Creatine Mono (5g)
Dymatize ZForce (4 caps pre-bed)
A variety of preworkout stims and blends.

Edit: Testofen final review is now up on post #1
 
not just any feedback, not sold on prime. when soloman recommends dermacrine so highly, i figure it's at least worth a try. i have seen nunes around forums since i first started on here, i wasn't an easy sell on pctabs, very skeptical at first but he convinced me to try them.
 
thebigt said:
not just any feedback, not sold on prime. i have seen nunes around forums since i first started on here, i wasn't an easy sell on pctabs, very skeptical at first but he convinced me to try them.
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I hear ya on that Prime stuff. Sounds way too good to be true. Like a Muscle Tech ad or something! :lol: And I also highly regard nunes' opinions as well as yours bigt. I'll be trying some PCT Tabs just because of you guys! :thumbsup:
 
thundergod said:
I hear ya on that Prime stuff. Sounds way too good to be true. Like a Muscle Tech ad or something! :lol: And I also highly regard nunes' opinions as well as yours bigt. I'll be trying some PCT Tabs just because of you guys! :thumbsup:
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i really think you should try it, if you respond like i am you will be in for a fun ride. only place i could find it was bb. but it was cheap enough.
 
Been very interesting following along here, good stuff, i used psarm and reservitol and fenugreek for my pct after my deca dbol, mdrol and epi cycle, and it worked wonders, i wasnt really shutdown after my deca cycle, but i must say reservitol is my favourite pct aid now, i noticed the difference it was the one change in my pct, and i was swollen and huge downstairs after 8 days, plus i lost some more fat during pct but still gained strength.
The psarm is also great as part of a pct, but the stomach pains for the first 7 days were very hard to cope with, thanks for this log, its been great learning new things, seeing how people respond etc. Thankyou Russian
 
LAC, as far as I could tell, I had no estrogenic effects from this stack. But I seem to be lucky in that I rarely experience estrogenic-like sides.

RussianStar, that's some good feedback bro. That's what the boards are for... experimenting, learning, and discussing. Glad you were part of this log :cheers:

Day 29

Seems like this log has been rekindled, so I'll keep it up. It's been 7 days since swapping out the testofen for trib.

So, the current supplements of interest are:
HGW 2.1g
Trib 3g

Holy crap fellas, libido is absolutely rediculous. I can hardly go 24 hours without pouncing on my girl. I can't imagine if I were still taking the testofen in this stack. It'd be too much, seriously!

I plan on lowering my dosage to:
HGW 1.4g
Trib 2g

I have a hunch that the lower dosage will work just as well in terms of libido.

Since adding the trib, I've noticed a few things. Acne, bacne, and aggression. It's been a long time since I've consistently and aggressively dosed a trib, so it's refreshing to feel it kick in.

I know all the divanil's and test boosters are en vogue at the moment. But I gotta say, good old fashioned fen and trib aren't out of style in my stash.
 
^^Great post celc!! Now you've got me wanting to toss some Trib into the mix next PCT. At least its cheap. I do feel that Trib is good at raising LH and thus has a nice impact on libido and even performance. It's just questionable as to how much these compounds (HGW, fenugreek, trib, maca) actually affect muscle growth and strength increases. But for libido their influences can't be denied. Thus for PCT's and natty excursions, they are valuable to the user. Keep up the good work in here celc. :thumbsup:
 
thundergod said:
^^Great post celc!! Now you've got me wanting to toss some Trib into the mix next PCT. At least its cheap. I do feel that Trib is good at raising LH and thus has a nice impact on libido and even performance. It's just questionable as to how much these compounds (HGW, fenugreek, trib, maca) actually affect muscle growth and strength increases. But for libido their influences can't be denied. Thus for PCT's and natty excursions, they are valuable to the user. Keep up the good work in here celc. :thumbsup:
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True true. So let's take a look at my personal experience and take libido out of our thought process. Testofen most definately increased testicular mass. And I have some mild androgenic like sides with acne and aggression from trib. There's gotta be something going on, right?

In terms of lean mass, I've maintained EXACTLY the same weight and bf % since coming off cycle. Since this could still be classified as pct, it's tough for me to say if any of them could help gain mass.
 
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