Royd The Noyd
Board Sponsor
Not sure I understand 100%, but you could just use the 45 degree angle bench. Its probably going to work your delts a bit at that angle but just stay focused on the contraction.
Everything & Anything DC!!!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter pistonpump
- Start date
Not sure I understand 100%, but you could just use the 45 degree angle bench. Its probably going to work your delts a bit at that angle but just stay focused on the contraction.
pantherdude63
Member
The workout for dc that i found has you doing a 3 day split mon.-chest, shoulders, tri., back width, back thickness
wed-bic.,forearms,calves,hams.quads.
fri.-same as mon. and so on.
It has two dif. chest workouts: smith machine 30 degree incline press and incline hammer strength press. I just wondered if any of you guys could tell me any other things I could do for chest on that day with the equip I have. Im even open to flat bench if somebody can help me out on the warmup/work sets. Thanks.:thumbsup:
msucurt
Well-known member
Dat, i agree with you also...in a sense. What is your training philosophy? Whom do you follow/admire/template your training routines from?
Maybe a routine you like and believe in?
Maybe a routine you like and believe in?
datBtrue
Well-known member
You need periods where you are attempting to build strength. These time periods seriously tax the central nervous system though and won't build much mass.
I primarily design my routines for hypertrophy resulting from "overcompensation of protein synthesis" & ideal Time Under Tension.
Some of this is described by Greg Bradley-Popovich as follows:
During the process of protein synthesis in any cell, energy is consumed in the form of adenosine triphosphate (ATP), the body's energy currency. Muscle contraction, like protein synthesis and the vast majority of other physiological processes, also consumes ATP. The moments of ATP shortage during protein synthesis (as a result of ATP being used for intense muscular contractions) are hypothesized to be of paramount importance. Supposedly, an unknown signal would report to the muscle cell nuclei ordering them to send more protein-building instructions back out into the cell. It is proposed that when a trained muscle attempts to "catch up" on its protein synthesis during rest, it inadvertently overshoots resulting in a supercompensation, or net increase, in the amount of muscle protein. The concept of this competition for energy, called the ATP Deficit Theory, is somewhat analogous to the glycogen supercompensation characteristic of trained muscles.
Evidently, to promote muscle hypertrophy, the activity must be demanding enough to produce this effect. Low intensity endurance training will not sufficiently deplete ATP stores available for protein synthesis. ATP can actually regenerate itself that quickly. Conversely, if the tension time of a set is too brief apparently under 45 seconds (although this is debatable) while implementing very heavy weights ATP is taken up quickly, but not in proportion to muscle fatigue; again resulting in lack of ATP store depletion allocated for protein synthesis. This may explain why power and Olympic lifters increase strength (via skill acquisition/adaptive coordination) without the characteristic hypertrophy of bodybuilders. Hence, in order to maximize muscle growth, it is best that sets last at least 45 seconds, but not so long (over 2 minutes) as to promote a high endurance capacity and potential overuse atrophy.
About the Author:
Dr. Greg Bradley-Popovich holds dual master's degrees in Exercise Physiology and Human Nutrition from West Virginia University as well as a doctorate in Physical Therapy from Creighton University. He is the Director of Clinical Research at Northwest Spine Management, Rehabilitation, and Sports Conditioning in Portland, Oregon.
Evidently, to promote muscle hypertrophy, the activity must be demanding enough to produce this effect. Low intensity endurance training will not sufficiently deplete ATP stores available for protein synthesis. ATP can actually regenerate itself that quickly. Conversely, if the tension time of a set is too brief apparently under 45 seconds (although this is debatable) while implementing very heavy weights ATP is taken up quickly, but not in proportion to muscle fatigue; again resulting in lack of ATP store depletion allocated for protein synthesis. This may explain why power and Olympic lifters increase strength (via skill acquisition/adaptive coordination) without the characteristic hypertrophy of bodybuilders. Hence, in order to maximize muscle growth, it is best that sets last at least 45 seconds, but not so long (over 2 minutes) as to promote a high endurance capacity and potential overuse atrophy.
About the Author:
Dr. Greg Bradley-Popovich holds dual master's degrees in Exercise Physiology and Human Nutrition from West Virginia University as well as a doctorate in Physical Therapy from Creighton University. He is the Director of Clinical Research at Northwest Spine Management, Rehabilitation, and Sports Conditioning in Portland, Oregon.
Some of this is further described in the section titled "Repetition Submaximal Resistance Method for Hypertrophy Training" from the book Fitness and Strength Training for All Sports : Theory, Methods, Programs by Jurgen Hartmann, Harold Tunnemann. This book is a translation of work originally published in former East Germany and details East German research and training techniques. It is a very interesting read.
Another solid reference is Science and Practice of Strength Training, Second Edition by Vladimir M. Zatsiorsky.
Muscle fiber make up & activation sequence is important.
Making the target muscle do all of the work by carrying the load throughout the set is paramount. For instance the very bottom and very top of a DB press for chest takes too much load off of the pecs (it almost amounts to mini-breaks at the top and bottom).
Anyway this is a thread about D.C. training so back at it guys.
Royd The Noyd
Board Sponsor
Bradley-Popavich is referring to anaerobic glycolysis in the below quote. From my understanding ATP production is lower in anaerobic glycolysis vs aerobic but it occurs several times faster. And it is regulated by an isoenzyme known as hexokinase. What I am trying to say is that I just dont understand how "supercompensation" is possible. In my head it makes more sense to occur during aerobic gycolysis when actual ATP levels are much higher (how it would occur in this state I have no idea either).
Interesting concepts though. TUT is something a lot of people ignore, but I notice from experienced lifters with quality physiques they tend to do mid range of motion lifts (for example not coming close to lock out on a DB press and not lowering all the way either).
I even see this in some cutler videos and one cannot argue with his level of hyperthrophy.
Interesting concepts though. TUT is something a lot of people ignore, but I notice from experienced lifters with quality physiques they tend to do mid range of motion lifts (for example not coming close to lock out on a DB press and not lowering all the way either).
I even see this in some cutler videos and one cannot argue with his level of hyperthrophy.
datBtrue
Well-known member
The process was not completely understood when the East Germans were discussing it amongst themselves and here we are years later and we still don't have a much better or more accurate picture of exactly how this occurs.
A few years ago I actually attepted to determine IF D.C. training maintained sufficient time under tension to induce "super compensation". Specifically I wanted to see if the rest pause technique had the effect of continuing to deplete ATP stores or if the break meant that ATP stores were beginning to be restored.
I (under a different name) had this conversation with someone high in the DC camp. I didn't get very far because apparently "TUT is for pussies..." or so I was told.
What I "determined" for myself was that a DC training set could work (to bring about ATP deficit w/ sufficient TUT) if the number of reps were kept a little higher & the rest that was taken for "rest pause" was short (maybe 9 seconds or less). The tendency to take longer breaks restored some energy levels and that violated what I wanted to accomplish.
Unfortunately it is real difficult to squeeze out several reps with just several seconds reps ...so I found drop sets to be perfect.
Actually a lot of successful physiques were built utilizing TUT even if they don't know it. For instance Dorian Yates who trained HIT style doesn't lock out his legs in heavy leg presses. At the top he keeps them slightly bent and if he needs a quick break to get his breath back he puts his hands on his knee caps to help support the weight but his muscles are still under tension.
As for the bottom position in exercises such as DB presses a lot depends on the bone structure of the bodybuilder. If the guy has shorter arms particularly forearms then when he gets the DBs to chest level his upper-lower arm angle is still close to 90 degrees so tension stays on his pecs. BUT a guy with long forearms hits that 90 degree upper-lower arm angle serveral inches before chest level. This long-armed guy will lose tension on the pecs if he goes to chest level & a lot of the load will shift to his shoulders.
Royd The Noyd
Board Sponsor
Yeah its not often that you see drop sets incorporated into popular programs such as DC. It should also be mentioned in your example once the long armed lifter gets the DB's to the chest they are able to "spring load" out of the hole so to speak. Taking the pec muscle even further out of the lift. I know from experience.
crazyfool405
Banned
if i cant do any form of squat (lower back problem, yet Dead lifts dont bother it, the compression on the lower left is terrible) and im afriad lounges would put to much pressure on one side...
i use 2 different leg presses as of now, with 2 different stances, what do yall reccommend as a 3rd exercize
nothing can go on the shoulders for legs....
sorry if this is soo off topic, figured its the best place to ask.
i use 2 different leg presses as of now, with 2 different stances, what do yall reccommend as a 3rd exercize
nothing can go on the shoulders for legs....
sorry if this is soo off topic, figured its the best place to ask.
Royd The Noyd
Board Sponsor
Crazy, try doing hack squats.
bassgod272
Well-known member
T H E O R E M
Member
anyone have any feedback/progress from only a years or so out on DC? i only find larger Bodybuilders starting off on it, and not anyone already huge lol
Distilled Water
Board Sponsor
I've got a log going. It's only been 3 weeks. I'm no huge so it should help you.
Frank Reynolds
Board Supporter
What specifically would you like to know? I had Dc'd back in the day, and ended up getting out of the gym for a few years, because of injury, or life getting in the way. Lost ALL my gains..
I have been back at it, for the last year, and made some good progress.
It is not for everyone.. It is certainly not for the people who switch their routine every few weeks. It is something that needs to be done over time.. I can't see myself training any other way.. There is a TON of variation built into the program, and it can always be evolving with different exercise choices, rep-ranges, etc.
Distilled Water
Board Sponsor
So what EXACTLY is the cruise phase 1-2weeks? I'm looking and can't really get an answer. Im just finishing up my 3rd week of DC and soon will be on my fourth then "cruseing"
Im not real sure as to what I should be doing?
Im not real sure as to what I should be doing?
bassgod272
Well-known member
Cruising is usually done for 2 weeks, but if your body is really wore out, then i'd go for 4. For your cruise, just don't do rest pauses and don't train to failure. You can still keep weight heavy and reps low, just don't train all out hardcore. If you're on rep 5 or 6 and think you can pump out a couple more, stop there.
crazyfool405
Banned
i got legs today
i already did leg presses, and squats (back feeling better)
but i dont have access to a smyth rack or anything, what exercises can i have for my 3rd, exercise?
i gotta goto the gym in an hour if yall could help me out lol
i already did leg presses, and squats (back feeling better)
but i dont have access to a smyth rack or anything, what exercises can i have for my 3rd, exercise?
i gotta goto the gym in an hour if yall could help me out lol
bassgod272
Well-known member
Leg Extensions would be good. Or if you have a leg press machine, if it's like the one at my gym, it can be changed to a hack squat machine real quick
Hack squats would be the best option IMO.
crazyfool405
Banned
Leg Extensions would be good. Or if you have a leg press machine, if it's like the one at my gym, it can be changed to a hack squat machine real quick
leg extentions are no good DC training, its only compound movements,
at this point i dont have that kind of leg press,.....
i only have a squat rack, (but dit squats already)
normal leg press (cybex) which i did already.
and im left with one other thing,
bassgod272
Well-known member
You obviously haven't done much research into DC. There are NO OFFICIAL "DC approved" exercises. ANY exercise can be utilized into DC training. It is just better to do compound movements because they build the most mass. Leg extensions build quality mass as well. Use 'em or don't, whatever.
Distilled Water
Board Sponsor
So bass, what would be a good example? Like a 5day split with say 9 sets per body part?
Royd The Noyd
Board Sponsor
In regards to feedback I ran one 4 week blast with DC. It was mostly just a learning experience (finding weights, rest pauses, stretches, etc) however I do feel I had a few positive benefits even on a caloric/carb deficit. The primarily benefit was:
Quads - Must have been the high reps but it seemed to "bring out" my quads more in terms of pop and vascularity.
I definitely want to revisit DC when it comes time for a bulk.
Quads - Must have been the high reps but it seemed to "bring out" my quads more in terms of pop and vascularity.
I definitely want to revisit DC when it comes time for a bulk.
crazyfool405
Banned
i have jason wojos DC training video, nowhere in there does he mention leg extentions, ive also done a lot of reading on it.
most people who do DC training use compound movements for legs, and other body parts
rxp1997
Active member
my understanding is that for your cruise you do whatever you want, including taking time off, just dont do anything like smells of DC. I believe 4weeks is just a guideline, after 6months i was up to 8weeks before hitting a cruise, and for that one week I'd work out once or twice with body weight execises.
the beauty of DC is that you can personalize the program to suit how you respond to it.
Frank Reynolds
Board Supporter
Ya, leg extensions are not really an optimal choice.. There is no "approved" list, but there is definitely preferred movements, and exercise selection is key.
As for your cruise it is really up to YOU... Are you ready for a cruise? Do you feel burned out? Is your log book suffering?
I usually will take off totally for a few days, then go in and do light workouts, etc. They usually last me 7-10 days.
I can usually last 6-10 weeks before needing a cruise, depending. I have really lasted a while on this last blast, by implementing a few "planned days off" through out.. Like i'll take a friday off when i feel it is needed, and it will do the trick.
The point of a cruise is recovery. Both physically and mentally.
crazyfool405
Banned
i always switch exercises before i think i exaust them, deadlifts are a big on for me, but well see on thursday how well i do them from the floor,
bassgod272
Well-known member
I own the video as well, and I too have done a lot of reading on it. Jason Wojo is not Dante. Also, too many people think that DC is so damn specific. There are NO SET EXERCISES. Friggin concentration curls can be used in DC training. Google DC training and leg extensions and see how many people are using them in their routine
I do hack squats, smith squats, and leg presses, so i'm set. All i'm trying to do is help a brother out, and you're telling me I don't know what i'm talking about :lol: NICE!bassgod272
Well-known member
I agree they are definitely not an optimal choice, but he doesn't have many choices in the first place, lol.
bassgod272
Well-known member
When I cruise I will just go back to the usual BB style of 3 sets per exercise with 3 exercises per workout. 10-12 reps. OR I may keep training heavy (6 reps) and just not go to failure or rest pause anything. It's up to you bro.
crazyfool405
Banned
i wasnt trying to be a weiner about it lol
i knokw my chjoices are limited and im thankful for what you give me, so let me rephrase
what other compound movement can i use as my leg workout
i tryed front squats and wasnt a big fan.
i knokw my chjoices are limited and im thankful for what you give me, so let me rephrase
what other compound movement can i use as my leg workout
i tryed front squats and wasnt a big fan.
Frank Reynolds
Board Supporter
I own the video as well, and I too have done a lot of reading on it. Jason Wojo is not Dante. Also, too many people think that DC is so damn specific. There are NO SET EXERCISES. Friggin concentration curls can be used in DC training. Google DC training and leg extensions and see how many people are using them in their routine
He isn't Dante, true. But do you think Dante would have allowed him to make a video, with his practices, if he didn't feel WOJO was the pinnacle of correct DC training, and knew how it should be done?
I am sure you could find a ton of people butchering DC training by googling it, but that doesn't make it the "right way".
You should be picking compound lifts, that is part of the basic ground rules, why would you want to incorporate "isolation" movements like concentration curls, and leg extensions?
If you don't have the means to do these core compound lifts, because your gym doesn't have them, then maybey another form of training is better suited for you.(by you, i don't mean YOU bg)
Frank Reynolds
Board Supporter
I wasn't targeting it at him, just saying it in general. I hadn't even seen his "issue"
I said if your gym is not equipped enough to do core exercises, then it may not be your best method. If you only have 3 movements for quads you can do, what do you do when you stall on one of them?
But now that you bring it up, give this thread a read.
Invalid Link Removed
crazyfool405
Banned
my problem was between back injury and a membership thats now up at another gym,
there are othe things i can do, i tryed front squats i hate em, but im gunna stick with them and see if i can grow to love them,
if not lounges are where its at next.
there are othe things i can do, i tryed front squats i hate em, but im gunna stick with them and see if i can grow to love them,
if not lounges are where its at next.
datBtrue
Well-known member
Good advice!
Many ways to do lunges. Hold two dumbells in your hand and do them...BB as you mentioned...step ups as you mentioned ALL are compound exercises.
datBtrue
Well-known member
Thats probably a true statement. You NEED to do compound lifts because on this routine you need to make less do more.
rxp1997
Active member
even with squats, there are variations to the std squat movement... you can do high squats, box squats, low squats, narrow stance squats, wide stance (the high and low are in reference to depth/parallel) A narrow low squat will tax you quite differently than a high squat...
crazyfool405
Banned
can you explain the squat variations, besides the stance width which i know........
im intersted to hear the low squats, box squats
or maybe explain them to me, ill use them when its leg day once again
rxp1997
Active member
if you think of the std squat as hitting parallel, the high squat is going inches above parallel (2-8), low is going inches below parallel (2-4), and box squat is sitting on a box that beings to parallel and driving up from a sitting stance.
the narrow low squat is I think the hardest from a form perspective, you need a tight core and start with a low weight.
box squat: Invalid Link Removed
(another option is jumpin from a squat position and progressing to jumping on/off boxes)
the narrow low squat is I think the hardest from a form perspective, you need a tight core and start with a low weight.
box squat: Invalid Link Removed
(another option is jumpin from a squat position and progressing to jumping on/off boxes)
bassgod272
Well-known member
I say he goes to a different gym, because any gym that doesn't have a smith machine or hack squat machine is pretty lame IMO.
Frank Reynolds
Board Supporter
Truth..:head:
crazyfool405
Banned
its a kick boxing gym, plain and simple,
but i got ya on the variations!!! ill start to use them/incorporate them.
but i got ya on the variations!!! ill start to use them/incorporate them.
datBtrue
Well-known member
No actually I like HIT or D.C. style (as it is written). I have used it in the past and will use it again.
For periods of time...for those periods of time when I feel it is time to focus on building strength.
wrkn4bigrmusles
Registered User
Has anyone referenced the forum that Dante and Jason Wojo usually hangs out on to find the answers to there DC questions.
Hbs6
Member
i used to frequent intensemuscle.com when all i cared about was size, because that is what this program brings assuming you are eating enough and generating enough intensity. BUt I like functional strength and being able to use it other places besides a rest pause set. But yeah, that forum has everything you need i found it all there. You just gotta look.
Doggcrapp
Board Sponsor
Actually to clarify some things
that i "insisted everyone take down cycles for pennies"
I asked that Musclemayhem take down the dogglogg over there and also that Intensemuscle and Pro muscle take down their cycles for pennies threads for a multiple of reasons chief being that I found out two people (one who I knew well which was extremely dissapointing) actually were cut and pasting my posts in a format to people on MSN....saying they were some kind of "certified DC trainer" and charging 600 dollars to train people. How i found this out is an elite powerlifter paid for this on MSN from one of these guys and contacted me when something didnt seem right...he had some questions the guy couldnt answer.....this pissed me off so badly that I wanted everything taken down. I dont want people getting ripped off and scammers trying to make money off of me. If you cant understand that I dont know what to say....I was pissed off....I was putting posts up on boards to help random people and these guys were using it to make money for themselves.
As far as cycle for pennies? Its like 9 years old now. Ive tweaked things a little bit and changed some aspects. I dont know if you guys have the exact same opinions you had almost a decade ago but I dont exactly. I flow with the latest science and results. I guess Cycles for pennies could give you a baseline to things but keep in mind it was again almost a decade ago.
The cult of DC stuff....hey it bugs the **** out of me too--and ive stated it many times on intensemuscle...dont shove this stuff down peoples throats--let them train the way they want to train---I never asked for this cult like atmosphere in the least to be honest with you.
But i do understand why some guys (including myself) can lose patience quickly on intensemuscle....there are stickies there that explain the gist of things yet every single day a new guy comes on that site and says words (to this hidden meaning)--"ok im too lazy to read, instead i want you guys to drop everything and spoon feed me all this stuff, im more important than anyone or anything else...stop what your doing and explain this all to me"
it does get tedious and it happens virtually everyday---and all they have to do is read....
Royd The Noyd
Board Sponsor
Interesting. Any chance you re-summarize "cylces for pennies" with the new research? 
Yeah yeah I know it cost money!
I've actually read that entire old thread. Some good stuff in there.
Yeah yeah I know it cost money! I've actually read that entire old thread. Some good stuff in there.
datBtrue
Well-known member
Okay bro. Point taken.
I smeared you in there with all of that nonesense from others when I shouldn't have done that.
It wasn't fair to you ...nor was it fair to your methodology.
...and my irritability at "bumping" into that weird attitude spilled over to my posts and a good guy on here was kind enough to message me and point this out.
I am beginning to understand what you say all to well at the moment...
...it never ends. I probably have a much greater appreciation for what you have had to deal with for a number of years just based on the constant messages I get from a few articles I've written.
...tedious for sure. Often off the wall. I actually got a message from someone who wanted to know if this CJC-1295/GHRP-6 peptide combination could help his friend who was addicted to coke.
...I told him he needed to give it a "rest" and "pause" what he was doing...and maybe he was better off contacting DC directly... :lol:
