I often receive PM's related to cyclic diets. Many of the questions I receive are the same and it seems that if all the information was compiled into a single thread it would be easier for everyone. I'm glad Rugger has taken the initiative to start this thread so I think that this is a good place for all of this information to go. Anyways, earlier today I have been communicating with Cessna via PM and I have his permission to post the message in this thread for everyone else who may have the same questions.
hey botch i came to you because you have knowledge on this subject i hope you dont mind helping me a little bit on some doubts that i have and if you can give some advices that will be great.
1) first i been reading about the carb load day and im unsure how many grams per LBM do i have to take assuming im doing 24 hours only.
Well to be honest it would be impossible for you to achieve maximum glycogen supercompensation over a 24 hour period. I would still advise you to eat 2g of CHO per KG of LBM for the first 4 meals immediately after your depletion workout. From the second morning of your carb load forward I would just focus on eating as many CHO's as you can and keeping your macros on point.
2) do i really have to take a piece of fruit 2 hours before my depletion workout?
No, it has been my experience that this is not something you need to do. It may help you though on days when you are feeling extra sluggish. I would eat a banana before the depletion workout sometimes, but it really never made a difference for me either way. I have heard experts also comment that the high fructose meal before the depletion workout is unneccesary.
3) lets say after my depletion workout i have a scoop of whey protein with a gatorade is this sufficient or should i take something else or more liquid?
Not even. For the first 4 meals immediately following the depletion workout you should be consuming 2g of CHO per KG of LBM. Lets do the math here...for you that would mean you have 57.9 KG of LBM which would equate to 115.8g CHO every two hours. This would be closer to 2 gatorades every two hours, which is totally fine to drink by the way. The other point I want to make is that one scoop of whey protein will not suffice. Your macronutrient breakdown on the carb up should be 60/30/10 which would mean you need to be taking in ~58g of protein every two hours. Since the fat content should be 10% you will need ~7g of fat with each one of these meals as well.
4) asumming my depletion w/o ends at 7:00 pm after my post workout meal, should my dinner consist of simple carbs and how many grams from protein? if you can give me an example it will be better just to have an idea
I would attempt to get those first 4 meals I listed above in on the same night that you had your workout. This means your last meal may be as late as 1:00am. Since you are only doing a 24 hour carb load, I would opt for starchy carbs during the next "phase" (basically once you wake up the next morning until the carb load is over). And since you are only loading for 24 hours I would eat as many carbs as I could. Rice, pasta, potatoes are all good choices. Just try and keep your macros to the 60/30/10 that was proposed. You may also find in the future that you want to extend your carb load to a full 48 hours.
5) do i have to get up at the middle of the night to eat to get a better glycogen compensation? (i dont mind to do it)
Not necessarily, but I like the enthusiasm! Usually if I wake up to pee during the night I'll get in a quick meal during the carb load. This does help to keep insulin levels stable. I do have to say though, if you go to bed before 1:00am I would really try and get in those four meals on the night of the depletion workout even if you have to wake up for the last one.
6) my breakfast should still be simple carbs?
( do my meal always have to contain liquid CHO?)
(when do i move from eating HIGH-GLYCEMIC CHO to LOW GLYCEMIC CHO ASSUMING IM DOING 24 HOURS?)
As posted above, I would move to starchy carbs during the second morning of your carb load and finish it off with starchy carbs from there. If you're not eating
all starchy carbs though during the second day it wouldn't be a huge deal.
7) do i have to eat every 2 or 3 hours?
Yes. Every 2 hours would be ideal.
8) what is the best period to have the "cheat" meal
I don't have cheat meals on this diet (aside from a few beers during the carb load, which won't set you back). Cheat meals will set you back a bit if you're idea of a cheat meal is high in fat and high in carbs. I tend to go into the carb up thinking that it is a huge cheat though. So I am satisfied with what I eat during the load just because I am happy to be eating carbs. If your idea of a cheat is sugary stuff then you can definately have some candy during the first day of the carb load. Also, usually by the time the high carb weekend is over I am looking forward to going back to high fat. Cheat meals for me tend to be high in fat so if I want a cheat meal then I will have something during the week that is low in carbs but still satisfies my cravings. I am also a dessert chef for an italian restaurant, and have experimented at home with different dessert recipes using sucralose instead of sugar...and let me tell you the baked goods turn out just as tasty as the real deal! It is up to you whether or not you want to have a cheat meal though. Through trial and error you will see what you can and can't "pull off" on this diet.
9) do i take my chromium, magnesium and ALA during the carb load 24 hour period?
Chromium? That one is new to me on a low carb diet. But I am surprised more people don't ask about the vitamin deficencies that can occur on this diet. As far as magnesium is concerned, you should be taking it every day along with zinc and potassium. A zinc, potassium, and magnesium supplement before bed would be a good addition (though I am not such a fan of the ZMK product that is out due to other added ingredients). Just plain ZMA and a potassium supplement (preferably a chelated version) would be good. I would also opt for 400-800IU's of vitamin E (mixed tocopherols) every day on this diet, about 500mg of vitamin C in three daily doses, and B vitamins regularly throughout the day. What I have listed here are ESSENTIAL while you're on this diet as your body is not getting the nutrients that it needs otherwise.
As far as ALA is concerned I would not mess with anything that manipulates insulin during the carb load. Your insulin sensitivity is already much altered from a normal person by the nature of the diet you are using and you don't need these things during the carb load. I will say that ALA or other variations should be used on monday morning and monday evening as well as tuesday morning to help lower blood sugar after the carb load.
10) my workout on monday and tuesday should be higher reps that i usually been doing?
Without you telling me how many reps you have been doing I cannot say. But I can say that your reps should be in the 6-8 range (about 80% of your 1RM) for the Monday and Tuesday workouts.
11) what could happen if i go more than 12 days (induction phase) and i wait lets say 24 days to do carb load do i run the risk to slow down my metabolism i ask you this because i took the ketostrips test and it came negative but assuming i been eating less that 20 carbs a day i should be burning fat for energy or not?
If you go more than 12 days your workouts may suffer and you do run the risk of slowing down your metabolism. There are nasty side effects associated with straight ketogenic diets and quite frankly I don't recommend them for anyone except in cases of VERY obese people. Ketosis is a strange thing. When you are very deep in ketosis your body is actually less efficient at burning fat. Like I said before I would not worry about the ketostrips. DiPasquale (author of the Anabolic Diet) hates talk about ketosis. If you were to do a true AD then you would not want to be in ketosis at any point in time. On the AD your blood glucose should hover around 95 throughout the entire week. Just know this, you can still burn fat efficiently without being in ketosis.
THIS ARE MY CURRENT STATS:
140lbs
bf 9%
LBM 127.4
FAT WEIGHT 12.6
im sorry for all this bunch of question but ill really appreciate if you can give me like a little guidance thanks in adnvance botch
Anytime :thumbsup:.
BTW is it cool with you if I post this up in the CK/Anabolic diet thread? I think that there are a lot of GOOD questions here that others may also have. Please let me know.
Thanks,
Botch.
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This is the response from the previous PM:
hey botch ur awesome thanks for take the time to answers all this doubts.
i dont have a problem you can post those questions on the CK/Anabolic diet thread so more people can learn.
so im gonna try 24 hour period for this time just to see whats the difference between 24 and 48 hours
so as protein is concerned it dosent matter where it comes from right? IMO (whey, fish, chicken,tunna, cottage cheese, fat free milk because are lean sources am i right?
Correct. You can eat whatever you would like for protein. Err...there are some I wouldn't recommend like drinking soy protein with every meal but hey, that's just me.
ill be using this protocol for the carbs:
Substage A: Meals 1-4
2g liquid CHO/kg LBM (simple sugars or glucose polymers) PER MEAL
Substage B: Meals 5-8
1.5g liquid CHO + solid High-glycemic CHO (i.e.- corn flakes)/kg LBM PER MEAL
Substage C: Meals 9-12
0.5g solid starches + some liquid CHOs PER MEAL
so you think this can be a good example of a breakfast lets say milk and a cereal (any kind)+ eggs whittes OR pancakes+ sugar free syrup and fat free ice cream+ eggs whites (im asking you this because i have some tasty cravings of those foods :food: lol)
This looks very familiar :food:. It is the same carb up protocol that I use. Your breakfast looks very tasty and is making my mouth water. You will be just fine eating those foods during the carb up, most important thing is keeping the macro ratios in check.
as for fat ill be eating wallnuts
Good choice. This is also what I do.
also is there any problem if at any meal i go over my amount of carbs?
No, since you are only doing a 24 hour carb load you should eat as much as you can, really. Even if you were carbing up for 48 hours it wouldn't be such a big deal if you go over a bit here or there.
and since the gatorade comes with fructose and that goes directly to the liver its there any other liquid choice you can recommend?
The fructose in gatorade is a VERY small amount. I wouldn't be concerned, but I'm glad that you've done your homework :thumbsup:. It is mostly made up of simple sugars. But another good liquid CHO that you could drink during this time is waxy maise starch or maltodextrin (glucose polymers). A big tub of this can be bought at Nutraplanet for very cheap.
Anytime my friend.