darkblue1
Member
Nothing will happen in few weeks, you can wait for surgery.Dont worry.
VARICOCELE...can it effect testosterone?
- Thread starter Hyde12
- Start date
Nothing will happen in few weeks, you can wait for surgery.Dont worry.
K1212
Member
if you have decent testosterone scores and can not get an erection, does that mean it is all in your head? I am going to the doctor on tuesday and ask him to take my testosterone
So far every doctor I ask says varicocle isnt related to testosterone and it is all in my head
I wonder if there is something to an injury related varicocle which might effect libido
So far every doctor I ask says varicocle isnt related to testosterone and it is all in my head
I wonder if there is something to an injury related varicocle which might effect libido
jon671
Member
So I have low testosterone and alot of symptoms gyno, ed...... I can feel extra veins above my left testicle, but not the right one. It cannot really be seen only felt. My testicles get very hot throughout the day. The veins are more prominent when i shower in the evening. My testicles feel a little smaller and softer. Sometimes I get dull aches in them. Do I need surgery?
uptempo
Member
I think you should get it checked out...dull aches mean something..when your body is giving you pain its trying to tell you something is wrong...definitely go to a urologist before its too late man... good luck
darkblue1
Member
If your testicles are very hot, its a red flag. Mine were hot for several days after i got varicoceles. i didt not knwo what to do. i used to put icepacks so that it will cool testicles and I can sleep. During sleep, if there is more blood flow , testicles become hot and we cannot sleep. Dont delay going to urologist. Also when they are hot means, you do have low levels of testosterone. But You should have checked LH,FSH levels also. If they are normal ans testosterone is low, then reason might be varicoceles other wise you dont need to worry much. After I took testosterone shots, my testicles cooled down, they are not hot anymore.
darkblue1
Member
Yes, most of the doctors say its all in our head when you say low testosterone is because of varicoceles. Because of varicoceles, your hormone system get wacked and you get low testosterone. And it does not mean that by fixing varicoceles your testosteorne will improve. Sometimes it depends on the age of a person. To check this, sometimes doctors prescribe testosteorne cream, if it goes up, that mmeans varicoceles are not the cause for this.
darkblue1
Member
Very few I guess.
Megazoid,Hyde12,Lean guy,Beckerj have undergone surgery.3 of them are on TRT now. Lean guy used Clomid therapy for few months and then stopped. you can check their posts on this forum
K1212
Member
Does the pain or annoyance improve at least? Anyone here have any complications after the surgery? I wonder what the relationship is to peoples whos varicocles that were brought on/greatened by an injury to people who had theirs come in randomly or gradually
uptempo
Member
i asked someone on yahoo answers who is aged 23, and I am age 21, he told me what happened after his surgery, and I asked him if he had any complications...
"I had surgery for varicocele just 3 wks after my doctor diagnosed me w/it. I had it on my left side and it felt heavy all the time. He told me my case was pretty bad for my age (23) and that it should be fixed right away before it causes any permanent reproductive problems. If you decide to undergo surgery, it's not that bad. I had the surgery on a fri and went back to work on mon, I was drugged up on pain killers though, but it was all good."
"There's no complications in masturbation, but you most likely won't feel like jerking for about 3 weeks (cause that's what happend to me). After a few weeks you'll have the urge to do it again, so don't worry. It won't feel as good though once you start again cuz you wont *** a lot (volume wise). After like a month or 2 you'll notice that the volume (of ****) increases (which means the climax will feel just as good), I noticed that about me. As for sex drive, it's about the same as the stuff I just mentioned.
I don't think it effects testosterone, but I could be wrong. If I were you, I would get it checked by another doctor as soon as you can and see what they recommend. Remember also that if you wait too long it may possibly lower the chance of having kids in the future (from what I hear from my doctor). Before my surgery my count was low."
Yea, so I can't really tell you if you should have the surgery or not cuz I don't know the extensiveness of your varicocele. Mine looked like their were worms pressed against the side wall of the skin wall on the left sac. It was pretty gross, but now it's all good.
"I had surgery for varicocele just 3 wks after my doctor diagnosed me w/it. I had it on my left side and it felt heavy all the time. He told me my case was pretty bad for my age (23) and that it should be fixed right away before it causes any permanent reproductive problems. If you decide to undergo surgery, it's not that bad. I had the surgery on a fri and went back to work on mon, I was drugged up on pain killers though, but it was all good."
"There's no complications in masturbation, but you most likely won't feel like jerking for about 3 weeks (cause that's what happend to me). After a few weeks you'll have the urge to do it again, so don't worry. It won't feel as good though once you start again cuz you wont *** a lot (volume wise). After like a month or 2 you'll notice that the volume (of ****) increases (which means the climax will feel just as good), I noticed that about me. As for sex drive, it's about the same as the stuff I just mentioned.
I don't think it effects testosterone, but I could be wrong. If I were you, I would get it checked by another doctor as soon as you can and see what they recommend. Remember also that if you wait too long it may possibly lower the chance of having kids in the future (from what I hear from my doctor). Before my surgery my count was low."
Yea, so I can't really tell you if you should have the surgery or not cuz I don't know the extensiveness of your varicocele. Mine looked like their were worms pressed against the side wall of the skin wall on the left sac. It was pretty gross, but now it's all good.
shyguava
New member
Thanks Darkblue. I thought it was so but needed to double check.
I have an upcoming operation for Varicocele next month. I have had the pain a while.
My FSH is 3.9 (range 1.0 - 18.0)
LH is 1.0 (range 1.0 - 12.0)
Testosterone 10.0 (range nmol/L 6.0 - 30.0)
Free Testosterone 233 (range pmol/L 170 - 500)
I dont understand the FSH and LH readings but the Urologists and Endo's here have mocked me for having a varicocele procedure (I am having it overseas as they wont give it to me). I am having it hoping to improve a few things. The sperm quality is low, I have ED of a severe kind, pain in the testicle on left side (scans have shown bilateral varicocele of medium+ order), atrophy of testi's. The Andrologist overseas told me to get the op done. But he encourage me to do it in Australia for free rather than pay him a fee. But I gave up. I have had all the above problems for a while now, seen 5 local urologists and about 2 other specialists locally but they seem to want to mock my condition and keep me returning for more fee's or tell me my condition is normal....live with it. I kid you not. Only the doctor overseas (when on holiday with wife when pain got too bad) diagnosed my problem. The others have done tests prior to this in Australia and never mentioned the word Varicocele. I dont know what is wrong with specialists these days. I have had lack of energy, depression, can only get it up by using high strength viagra or caverject injections and doctors here seem to think thats normal????
No sorry...I had enough. Operation booked. Looking forward to it.
K1212
Member
Why would they mock you?
shyguava
New member
Hello K1212
It does sound unbelievable or exaggerated doesnt it. That a doctor would "mock". But truly in Australia there is a certain difficulty within the medical community when it comes to taking a proactive approach to treating patients with what they deem to be "lifestyle" choices.
After I saw the Head of Andrology at the hospital I attended overseas, he advised me that my Testosterone levels, hormone levels, semen.sperm, the works basically were very much below what was normal. He wrote a letter and gave advice to the specialists here including my atrophy and pain which he listed as acute.
I had to go to see a GP to get my referral. I was really optimistic as finally someone had pointed to a possible cause of some of my past problems and I wanted to get started on with it. The first GP despite seeing test results and the Andrologists report recommending an immediate operation to rectify the varicocele refused to even give me a referral. I had to return next day and get that from another GP. The first GP told me I can get by using IVF (to get a baby) and using Viagra or Caverject (prosteglandin injection into side of penis) for sex.
My local urologist I got sent to laughed about overseas doctors (remember the guy I saw is US qualified, head of his hospitals Andrology department and has many research papers published on a wide range of male fertility and hormone issues in conjunction with Euro and US counterparts and came recommended by Urology colleagues as someone highly esteemed with 1000 operations experience). I insisted he send me to see a specialist similarly qualified as the overseas Andrologist I saw in terms of male hormone and fertility problems. That guy was equally dismissive. Said...yes my T was low but hey...lots of guys get it up with low T. Yes I had pain in the left side...but hey...varicoceles dont cause pain. He even told me I have hair loss and that my T must be good enough since guys with some hair loss up North are obviously real men. (ppfff). I told him that my granddad on mothers side was bald as a cue ball and its the mothers side of the family (genetic wise) that determines baldness so please stop talking like I am some local hick with no education. Oh and he said varicoceles dont do damage to testi's over time :-(
I went back to see the Urologist after the previous specialist says he doesnt do varicoceles. The urologist started tell me about the procedure and then scared me off because he mentioned about tying the "artery off". I said.."dont you mean veins" Honest to doodle..anyone in his profession should never talk about tying off arteries. He corrected himself and laughed saying "if I wanted a variation of the procedure then he could tie the veins off instead".
I lost confidence in his ability and wont have him near me now with a knife.
I always knew my problems with ED, pain, low sperm counts and mixed up energy and emotion levels were not "mental". Some past urologists recommended I go see a pysch because I might be intimidated by women or have performance anxiety issues (like that fixes low T, and sperm quality????) I told them I had a wife who looks like Ms Universe - attractive, fit and educated and real fun lady - so what is the point of paying someone to tell them I am not intimidated by women.
My belief is that either doctors are scared to operate in a litigous society, or hospitals discourage the use of thearte time on non life threatening issues (saves money on tight budgets) for which a medication exists as a work around (try sticking yourself with a needle before sex to get an erection = yeah great), or they lack the confidence to do operations here (an ex wife of mine who is a nurse says they are too learned on paper but not enough in practical skills in Australia compared to overseas).
And some urologists think that if you arent screaming on the carpet in pain...you can go and park yourself elsewhere.
There is also a macho culture in Australia from what I can see. Real men with no problems like themselves...look down on those with problems. When I mentioned my Andrologist appointments overseas and show results and the letter or mention forums and advice on the net...they look at me like its an affront to themselves to be getting advice/taking advantage of experts when overseas or researching the net which they advise is full of garbage.
No.
shyguava
New member
hi Uptempo
I am 39. I have had the pain on and off for 3 years (seen 5 urologists + higher) and then the pain got really bad over the last half year. I couldnt get an erection if I tried, and dont even get the morning ones. The ED was my main concern when I went to get this checked on. But as I am married now, my wife is 27, we thought it may have an impact on our getting a baby too. So we tested the lot and found that sperm count while high, was besotted with poor morphology and not a lot of the sperm was motile. Lets say 11% were normal morphology wise, then only 1/3 of these were behaving like Michael Phelps. The rest had done an Ian Thorpe and were in retirement.
I am 39. I have had the pain on and off for 3 years (seen 5 urologists + higher) and then the pain got really bad over the last half year. I couldnt get an erection if I tried, and dont even get the morning ones. The ED was my main concern when I went to get this checked on. But as I am married now, my wife is 27, we thought it may have an impact on our getting a baby too. So we tested the lot and found that sperm count while high, was besotted with poor morphology and not a lot of the sperm was motile. Lets say 11% were normal morphology wise, then only 1/3 of these were behaving like Michael Phelps. The rest had done an Ian Thorpe and were in retirement.
K1212
Member
I can not take the depression of this thing, I cant believe in 1 freak incident my life was changed, how do you people deal with this? I think it might be worse for those who had theirs come on as a result of an injury
The worst part of all is I was already seeing a therapist(and was coming to terms with stuff in my life based on my own will power), and he already labeled me as a "hypochondriac" and he basically sees this as another complaint that isnt real, I really hate that ******* to and I was thinking of not seeing him and I came home from a session and this thing happened, who knows if I had not seen him or I left the office in a better mood it would never of happened as it happened while I was lying on my bed
I really cant take this anymore, I am not going to kill myself but I dont know what to do
I feel so alone with this thing, I called a depression hotline last nite and I explained the injury and I am pretty sure the guy was laughing at me
I really dont know what to do, if I have the surgery will it get better? Will the depression die?
Another horrible part is my dog did it as an accident, and I cant get over it and would by lying if I wasnt resentful towards him and angry at myself, because my dog has 3 legs and I just sleep on the mattress so it is easier for him to get on, I was thinking of giving him away these last few months as I was trying to get my life in order and caring for him was getting overwhelming, now this happened and is the ultimate slap in the face, this truly is remarkable, just unbelieavable
This is truly a ****ing nightmare, I cant take this anymore, it sucks because this is an embarassing injury and people laugh at you(or go by what the studys say and see this is not a big deal and I am overeacting), I would give up just about everything I own to go back 2 1/2 weeks and prevent this from happening
I cant take this and feel so ****ing alone with this thing, I just want to sleep but I am not able to sleep, I cant deal with this depression
The worst part of all is I was already seeing a therapist(and was coming to terms with stuff in my life based on my own will power), and he already labeled me as a "hypochondriac" and he basically sees this as another complaint that isnt real, I really hate that ******* to and I was thinking of not seeing him and I came home from a session and this thing happened, who knows if I had not seen him or I left the office in a better mood it would never of happened as it happened while I was lying on my bed
I really cant take this anymore, I am not going to kill myself but I dont know what to do
I feel so alone with this thing, I called a depression hotline last nite and I explained the injury and I am pretty sure the guy was laughing at me
I really dont know what to do, if I have the surgery will it get better? Will the depression die?
Another horrible part is my dog did it as an accident, and I cant get over it and would by lying if I wasnt resentful towards him and angry at myself, because my dog has 3 legs and I just sleep on the mattress so it is easier for him to get on, I was thinking of giving him away these last few months as I was trying to get my life in order and caring for him was getting overwhelming, now this happened and is the ultimate slap in the face, this truly is remarkable, just unbelieavable
This is truly a ****ing nightmare, I cant take this anymore, it sucks because this is an embarassing injury and people laugh at you(or go by what the studys say and see this is not a big deal and I am overeacting), I would give up just about everything I own to go back 2 1/2 weeks and prevent this from happening
I cant take this and feel so ****ing alone with this thing, I just want to sleep but I am not able to sleep, I cant deal with this depression
K1212
Member
that really bothers me that your doctors are unwilling to do the surgery, I also read a report that said UK doctors are unwilling to do it unless absolutley neccessary
I trust them over American doctors who are basically dollar bill friendly, they will do anything as long as they are getting a nice pay check out of it
Is it true about tying up the arteries? I mean this cant be good, this thing is such a nightmare, I cant believe this happened
uptempo
Member
Hey K1212, I know this sounds crazy, but sometimes you need hope and confidence for things to turn out the way you want them to. I know things might not be looking good as of now, but look at megazoid. Megazoid is 25 and has problems too, but he keeps saying he's not going to give up, and I really look up to those people. I say try to get a urologist, get the surgery done, be a little hopeful, and just hope for the best and take it from there, then take it step by step. That is what I am planning to do even though I am a lil worried and frustrated myself. I know life isn't fair or perfect, but we can at least try to fix it with what we got.
darkblue1
Member
Your LH is low. Thats the reason for low testosterone. According to the books this is not caused by varicoceles. And thats why doctors are not willing to do surgery for you. Same is the case with me. I am in US. since my LH and FSH levels are not high , they say low testosterone is not because of varicoceles. And they wont advice for surgery. I had ED, depression,muscle weakness because of low testosterone. When I took shots, ED gone,muscle weaknes gone. You said you have good count of sperm ,but not good quality. I think your quality (motility) may improve after your varicoeles surgery. Good luck with your surgery. Since your testes already srunk, I dont think even after surgery, they will gain their size, but to avoid further shrinkage it is recommened to go for surgery.
K1212
Member
honestly I have had such a shitty life and I keep dealing with crap, I was dealing with a whole other slew of issues before this came up, it just seems like it never ends
But on a side note, my testical has been bothering the hell out of me lately, it feels like it is burning like a mother ****er and it feels smaller also I keep getting this pain on the side of my left ribcage , could this be related to my Kidney? I have a doctors appointment on Tuesday but not sure if I should go to the Immediate care again, I was just there on Friday when they told me I just had a Varicocle and it was fine, but now it is really hurting
also, just to make sure it is Varicocle that is bothering me, will a Varicocle cause all kinds of weird veins all over the testicle itself? Is there anything else that could cause this? Most pictures I see just show the varicocle veins around the top part of the scrotum
ANd now my left scrotum has shriveled up and is smaller then my right scrotum, this is after 3 weeks of my left scrotum being about an inch longer then my right, this thing is really freaking me out
quixotic
New member
When I first experienced symptoms such as low libido back in Jan 2007 I met a doctor who advised me to get semen analysis , Testosterone , LH, FSH and thyroid profile done. I am 29 , 6 feet tall and weigh about 190 pounds. Sperm count was found to be abysmally low (3 mil) but everything else seemed Ok with Total testosterone around 690 (240 - 980). I must admit that I was under a lot of personal and professional stress then. So he said may be it is because of all the stress so I should give myself some time. He however said that when I felt better I should get an ultrasound scan done to figure out the cause for low sperm count and assured me that it had nothing to do with libido.
I got the ultrasound scan done 6/8 months later and was diagnosed with bi lateral varicocele. The urologist just mentioned of its consequences on fertility and nothing else. I saw another Andro - Urologist who made a very brief passing remark about its effect libido/ED and suggested that I get it ligated microsurgically mostly for fertility reasons.
Out of curiosity I got my testosterone tested (at around 8AM) and total testosterone number came out to be 347 (280 - 800) and free stood at 21.7 (8.69 - 54.69).
I met an endocrinologist and ran the numbers by him, he told me that this is probably a psychological thing and if my T was really low he would know from beard growth, fat around the belly and that I displayed no such signs. Also, he said Testosterone production follows a 20 minute cycle and an endocrinologist never relies on just one random sample as it could very well have been sampled at the trough of the cycle and hence can be misleading. He said 3 samples taken at intervals of 20 minutes is the right way of doing it.
Is that how you guys get it done?
I know for sure that low libido and all other symptoms exist but sometimes I wonder if I am imagining things?!!! All these doctors have had me confused!!!
I got the ultrasound scan done 6/8 months later and was diagnosed with bi lateral varicocele. The urologist just mentioned of its consequences on fertility and nothing else. I saw another Andro - Urologist who made a very brief passing remark about its effect libido/ED and suggested that I get it ligated microsurgically mostly for fertility reasons.
Out of curiosity I got my testosterone tested (at around 8AM) and total testosterone number came out to be 347 (280 - 800) and free stood at 21.7 (8.69 - 54.69).
I met an endocrinologist and ran the numbers by him, he told me that this is probably a psychological thing and if my T was really low he would know from beard growth, fat around the belly and that I displayed no such signs. Also, he said Testosterone production follows a 20 minute cycle and an endocrinologist never relies on just one random sample as it could very well have been sampled at the trough of the cycle and hence can be misleading. He said 3 samples taken at intervals of 20 minutes is the right way of doing it.
Is that how you guys get it done?
I know for sure that low libido and all other symptoms exist but sometimes I wonder if I am imagining things?!!! All these doctors have had me confused!!!
K1212
Member
I saw another doctor today who assured me varicocle has nothing to do with your testosterone and your libido
I would like to believe him but I dont understand how my interest in women diminished right when this thing started to come about, I tryed masturbating a few days after my symptoms started to arise and I couldnt get an erection and I couldnt get sexually excited looking at females, this is coming from someone who a week before would go crazy at the site of 90% of women out there on the street, this is from many years of being sexually repressed
This is such a nightmare
I would like to see a study of people with Varicocles and their sexual interest, it is easy to say it is all in your head but unless you feel it you dont understand, it seems on this board the overwhelming majority or 100% of people with varicocles said it effected their libido in some way
shyguava
New member
K1 - I have done plenty of searching on the net and input +Varicocele +ED and I have found some US Urologists who say they correlate a connection between Varicocele and ED. If the test's' (especially in bilateral varicocele) is affected then hormone and T production will be affected. I never had ED till I had these damn Varicoceles turn larger and sore. My performance has gone South since then. If you cant play with it to get it up or cant get a rise in the morning without doing anything then its pretty clear something is awry. I am fit and healthy to look at, active and optimistic. I dont have bad habits in diet, dont touch alcohol, dont touch tobacco, no medications, have an absolute pin up for a wife and work in a damn good job.
But the worse the Varicocele has got despite living as Mr Health the more and more problems with ED I have. I have researched a lot of info and sources. There are two camps in most things to do with Varicocele. One camp says "It doesnt affect fertility", another camp says "Yes it does". One camp says "It doesnt affect T, hormones or ED", the other camp says "Hey..you know what...if your testicles are getting pawned by Varicocele...then in all likelihood its probably going to play havoc with your hormones, T and in turn your sex life"
Aussie doctors like US ones are money whores. The difference being with the Aussie ones is they dont profit from doing operations, they just keep you coming back again and again for more tests until say about 5th appointment then they say...oh...I would give it another year and come back (for more tests). My operation is going to be outside Australia. Honest to betsy...the Andrologist has told me...get Varicocele fixed. That improves sperm and fertility. He said...from there...you can see if it improves other aspects of your sex life too. No rock solid guarantee but he thinks it couldnt do any harm as my hormone levels suck. Yet looking at me, perfect blood pressure and cholesterol levels (like some sort of Alexander the Great look alike) he cant understand why doctors where I am are playing around so much instead of getting proactive given I have had so many tests but at days end the evidence and my phyiscal pain call for action. He thinks you deal with most obvious problem first - and see where the rest of the issues go after that. Sound advice.
I will let you know of my post op progression on all fronts. I am keen to watch myself. But I know that T is affected by the testicular function. You cant have injections of T or pill supplements as artificial T quashes the sperm production to zero. Natural T is what I want to see improve. I cant see that happening while my testicles are a war zone.
K1212
Member
I am the same way as far as health living, before this I could get erections at the mere thought of a girl or even a article of clothing, now I dont have the desire to in the slightest, all I have to do is look in the mirror and see my facial hair is coming in slower and know something is up
The worst part of this is my **** therapist who I partially blame for this happening in the first place, and all these ******* doctors tell me it is all in my head and that the varicocle doesnt effect testosterone
beckerj
Member
3 hours at a time ? WOW .... That is a bit on the extreme side and in this case I could see how it may have lead to Varicocele .... The thing is most of us that have been dealing with Varicocele were not at this end of extreme .... So it may be better to see it from a point that it excessive Masturba*tion can cause Varicocele in this case but once a day .... 20-30 minute session should not be an issue with most men ....
beckerj
Member
I had the Micro-Surgery and there were no complications .... It did not restore my T production .... So I am on HRT now ....
K1212
Member
so you would say your testosterone was definetly effected by the Varicocle? Did yours come on as a result of an injury?
And I am not sure how my Varicocle came on, all I know is on July 24th my dog stepped right on my left testicle and it hurt pretty bad, then July 26th I had one of my long masturbation sessions and that night I knew something as up
And what is it like being on HRT, TRT, I am someone who tryed to live all naturally and not even take an aspirin for a headache, so I cant imagine being on a mind altering substance like testosterone therapy
beckerj
Member
1 - I did not have any complications aside from the fact that I still have 25% Varicocele on my left side and still aches sometimes .... And that it did not restore my T level ....
2 - I do not notice any difference in the way masturb*tion feels or is achieved since my surgery .... A lot of this I think is in the head .... Kinda like you know you had something done down there and it messes with your head a bit .... I liken it to a guy that has Testicular Cancer .... He truly never really feels the same more because of the trauma surrounding the ordeal ....
3 - about a month and you can get back to some of your normal activities .... As for the fully recover .... I think it is a long road to haul as it does mess with your head in places you would never think of .... I am on HRT and seeing a Shrink now .... I liken what I have been though to a woman going through the change of life .... and then once on the HRT coming back to more of who I was before all this happened ....
beckerj
Member
I would say YES that Varicocele caused my Low T .... Mine was an unknown cause, although I have thoughts of what may have caused it but nothing Definite ....
Being on HRT/TRT has been a God Send at this point .... My depression is GONE totally .... The issues in the bedroom are a combination of my head and thought of failure being so prevelant and the thought just gets the best of me and gives me ED .... I am trying to work through this now with a shrink ....
beckerj
Member
ShyGuava - I think you have hit this discussion on the head so to speak .... The two camps and all ....
I saw yet my 3rd Endo the other day and he is the first to say that Varicocele most likely caused my Low T .... He said my T level was that of a 70 year old man .... Before the TRT .... And then he said in the same breath the T level of 735 I am at now is too high and that of a 17 year old .... So I have cut my Androgel down to 4 pumps a day .... We'll see at the end of the month where I am .... SMILE
I saw yet my 3rd Endo the other day and he is the first to say that Varicocele most likely caused my Low T .... He said my T level was that of a 70 year old man .... Before the TRT .... And then he said in the same breath the T level of 735 I am at now is too high and that of a 17 year old .... So I have cut my Androgel down to 4 pumps a day .... We'll see at the end of the month where I am .... SMILE
beckerj
Member
You are not imagining this .... It is a fact that it messes with your hormones .... Maybe not immediately, but over time Varicocele, Esp Bi-lateral Varicocele does this ....
I know what you mean by being confused .... I have been to literally 9-12 Doctors and they all say varicocele has nothing to do with Low T .... The worst part is because varicocele messes with hormones and everyone has a different threshold level needed to maintain Libido, Erections, good state of mind, agressiveness, etc .... That a small cange made by the varicocele will wreak havoc with some or all of theses things .... The Dr.'s take a look at the labs and see you fall into the normal range and asy you are okay , bu they don't take into account what you may have been before the varicocele .... IN other words .... if you were more of a "MAN" for lack of a better way of saying this, before the varicocele they ignore this and say you are normal range .... This was me to a T and this other guy I know personally here at work .... We both know how we were before the Low T and the Dr.'s just say normal range and done with you .... SUX ....
K1212
Member
Are there any side effects of the HRT/TRT's, what happens if you go off it? Is it possible to live and be happy without having replacement therapy
beckerj
Member
HAte to say it, but all the symptoms you are rattling off are exactly what I had going on .... Dr. ran a MRI and CAT scan to rule my kidney's out .... They were fine .... So this is just another little gift from the Varicocele Fairy ....
The veins in your scrotum are normal part of the varicocele there again .... It makes your scrotum feel like a bag of worms ....
Your body is in a state of flux due to the Varicocele .... Hormones are out of wack, your genital area is warmer than it should be .... The pain of "DEAD" blood pooling in that area is causing the pain .... Oxygen depletion in that area is also causing the pain ....
I would opt for the Micro Surgery .... how old are you again .... keep in mind the Younger you are the more chance you have for T to be restored after surgery .... At least from the Micro-Surgery ....
beckerj
Member
If I were not on TRT/HRT .... I am not sure I would be here talking to you right now .... Aside from the Wellbutrin that I was on before I started TRT/HRT I was in such a state of depression that I really did not want to hang around this old world like I was .... I could not even Mastrub*te .... It was truly hell for a man .... I would watch videos and what not with nothing stirring down there .... now when the other half comes to bed I at least feel a small stir .... And watching videos and what not work fine like they used to do ....
It stinks in some ways that we as men really do center our world around Sex .... But we are Dogs they say ....
K1212
Member
I am 28
I cant belive all this is happening, I see the Doctors and tell them I read online about it effecting testosterone and sex drive and they tell me it isnt possible and people online could just be making it up , they also think most of what I am feeling physically and mentally is just my mind playing tricks or depression
K1212
Member
How long after you realized your varicocle did your symptoms start and your depression sink in, and how long after that did you have the surgery
quixotic
New member
Thanks a ton for the reply. So whenever you guys get your T tested how is it done? One blood sample or three samples staggered over 20 minutes duration.
If that is what it takes I want to get it tested the right way and go with the head theory or the hormone theory. This infirmity is killing me!! Although I am convinced it is the hormone havoc at work.
Invalid Link Removed
This Andrologist is a man of quite some repute and he clearly mentions "Also, it must not be forgotten that the treatment of a varicocoele is not for fertility alone. The varicocoele is already harming the testis in an infertile male. If only the semen sample is treated, and not the varicocoele, this damage continues and the testicular damage becomes worse. Over time, sperm counts may decline dangerously, and testosterone levels may drop, causing additional problems. "
darkblue1
Member
I showed this information and also from other document written by reputed urologist from new york to my urologist, he laughed at it and said they do this to earn more money and his friend is the one who is new york who wrote this article , he gets more patients of varicocele and earns more money from surgeries. He did mention that varicocele is not the cause for low testosterone and ED. But this is true for some and not true for rest of others.
For testosteorne test, usually its done at 8-9 a.m in the morning with one blood sample not at 20 minutes interval.
beckerj
Member
How long after you realized your varicocle did your symptoms start and your depression sink in, and how long after that did you have the surgery
I am 36 .... I too could not beleive that this was and still is to a degree happening to me .... I would bring all kinds of print outs to the Dr. only to have it shoved in the chart and never seen again .... I don't think a one of them read the information .... The thing I settled in my mind was this ....
Varicose Veins - They are a pooling of blood in a vein that has a defective valve mechanism that usually draws the blood away from ....
Now think .... If the blood is pooling / tempurature is rising, poisons from the blood that should be drawn away from the testicles is pooling, oxygen depletion in the area from lack of new blood passing through that area, etc .... These things all contribute in my opinion to the deleterious effects of varicocele .... Now imagine that you have Bilateral Varicocele .... This is occuring on both sides, in both testicles ....
The Depression is REAL .... But the fact of the matter is that they will try to bandaid you with Anti-D's .... Now I am all for Anti-D's as I truly beleive that Wellbutrin saved me .... But once I got on the T for three or 4 weeks I did not need the Anti-D's because the Low T was the reason for the depression in the first place ....
I have another point .... I'll be back after lunch with it .... SMILE
I am 36 .... I too could not beleive that this was and still is to a degree happening to me .... I would bring all kinds of print outs to the Dr. only to have it shoved in the chart and never seen again .... I don't think a one of them read the information .... The thing I settled in my mind was this ....
Varicose Veins - They are a pooling of blood in a vein that has a defective valve mechanism that usually draws the blood away from ....
Now think .... If the blood is pooling / tempurature is rising, poisons from the blood that should be drawn away from the testicles is pooling, oxygen depletion in the area from lack of new blood passing through that area, etc .... These things all contribute in my opinion to the deleterious effects of varicocele .... Now imagine that you have Bilateral Varicocele .... This is occuring on both sides, in both testicles ....
The Depression is REAL .... But the fact of the matter is that they will try to bandaid you with Anti-D's .... Now I am all for Anti-D's as I truly beleive that Wellbutrin saved me .... But once I got on the T for three or 4 weeks I did not need the Anti-D's because the Low T was the reason for the depression in the first place ....
I have another point .... I'll be back after lunch with it .... SMILE
shyguava
New member
Hey Becker
70 year old man - lol. I can only wish to perform like 70 year old man. But yes true. I know the feeling. I guess it wouldnt be as bad as that if it wasnt for all the other issues, energy, mood swings, sleep is affected (pain is intense), hormones and T are shot. I am only recently married though I advised my wife before marriage about this problem....she is supportive and young but I know I am toast if I dont get my act together or she struggles to get pregnant and the inevitable female impatience builds. Lucky for me though she suggested we try the Andrology department in her country when I was there, truly they are the only ones to see the problem and offer me some hope. Though they recommended my own country to do the ops to show they werent after the business.
Yes the two camps is pretty much a given in most things in medicine. Trouble is Australian doctors nearly on mass (hardly an exception) are fully in the camp that says "Varicoceles dont mess with fertility or T or hormone issues....because men with varicoceles can and do cause pregnancy and dont carry a lot of the baggage we are complaining about" (but sometimes I wonder how thorough this assessment of those men is. I mean did anyone test those men before their varicocele to see if their T was higher and fertility greater. Because lets face it.....who worries about testing those things when you are healthy as can be?? Certainly I didnt. Which is why I told my doctor (with my T at rock bottom) when he said "Oh but maybe that is normal for you" that I never had it tested when I was a 3 x a day guy because who the heck cares then,.
Androgel. Where can one get this? Wow a lot of things I dont hear much about from my doctors.
HRT/TRT what are these medications? Are they prescription and do they squash sperm production because if they do then I wont be able to use after my varicocele op because wife and I want to try for baby.
shyguava
New member
Anti depressants only worsen the problem. Anti D side effects on healthy male will result in impotence. When I was healthy, I was shocked to find within a week the side effects were not something you could overcome by imagining your girlfriend in a French Maids uniform lol when alone to relieve tension. That was my wake up call to the fact they have a powerful suppressing effect on the works.
And as per you becks...I did the research online and even had my overseas Andrologists report to back up all we have talked about in terms of Varicoceles needing to be dealt with to help "us" take at least one step in the right direction to improving our issues (deal with Varicocele and then see where the other pieces of the jigsaw fall into place - if they indeed to). The result...yes....they glance at it, File it and laugh your efforts off as some sort of preschoolers effort to paint the Mona Lisa.
I will let you know via the forum how my situation goes after Varicocele microsurgery end of next month. I get back from overseas end of October but I will be online while overseas. With time...I might be able to see if my myriad of issues gains from this procedure or not. I tell you I am looking forward to this. Hope with time after recovery I can see my specialists here and let them know it I improve that their theory of non intervention sucks. Pardon the innuendo.
shyguava
New member
K1212
Believe me...I had 5 urologists tell me that ED and pain in testicles is all in the mind. But in truth, I have found a wealth of information from Urological and other specialists all arguing that health of the male reproductive system has a huge part to play in male health full stop. I was told by the Andrologist that if I experienced depression, mood swings, drops in energy, lack of motivation, disinterest in the female form (shapley form
), no sex drive....then I can forget about it being in the mind. He says atrophy of testicles, varicocele etc shows the testicular function is suffering. With it the hormone regulators and T production is affected and the vicious circle starts. He has done 1000 operations and has seen that the effect of fixing the varicocele is far more postive than negative in terms of outcome for the patient. Dont forget in the West (my doctor is in the East)....litigation scares a great many doctors from performing ops on you. Insurance is high to cover this fact. So if you want to play safe...as doctors do...then they test, reassure (even if its bluff) and tell you to calm down and with time, who knows. Thats all I get here. Honestly you think being direct and truthful and pro active in fixing a patients problem was a national crime.TXathlete84
New member
Help
Hey guys, it's been a while and I am looking for some more wisdom. I have previously posted about my varicocele, my low testosterone, and a host of other problems.
I had a bilateral varicocelectomy on May 15th due to pain and low testosterone around 250. I also had a small tender lump behind my left nipple that wasn't too noticeable, but still seemed to be some type of low-level gynecomastia arising from my apparently high estrogen levels.
My endo put me on Tamoxifen (Nolva) at 10 mg twice a day
(20 mg/day) before my surgery to treat my nipple. It definitely helped reduce the tenderness, and it shrunk in size. After 1 month my levels were:
test - 357
Estrogen - 2 ng/dL
free test - 10
But a few weeks after the month of Tamoxifen my nipple went back to being tender, and back to its normal size. So about 3 weeks ago he gave me a prescription for about 4 months worth of Tamoxifen at 20 mg/day, and it has helped again.
My question is this:
My test levels are still around 330 so the doc prescribed me Arimidex at 1 mg/day, and we will check my levels after 6 weeks. He says that he has several bodybuilders on the same combination of 20 mg Tamoxifen/day and 1 mg Arimidex/day, and it should raise my test to around 500. I have been living with low Test for several years, and I would like to get my natural production to above 700...so I obviously jumped at the thought of finally getting on the right path.
But on the Arimidex site it states "ARIMIDEX should not be taken with tamoxifen or with estrogen-containing therapies"...so is that just for women since it is mainly used as a breast cancer treatment...or should it not be combined for men as well???
If there is an expert out there who can tell me what the combination of those two drugs will do I would greatly appreciate it. Also, is it safe to drink alcohol while taking those prescriptions?
Thanks a lot!
Hey guys, it's been a while and I am looking for some more wisdom. I have previously posted about my varicocele, my low testosterone, and a host of other problems.
I had a bilateral varicocelectomy on May 15th due to pain and low testosterone around 250. I also had a small tender lump behind my left nipple that wasn't too noticeable, but still seemed to be some type of low-level gynecomastia arising from my apparently high estrogen levels.
My endo put me on Tamoxifen (Nolva) at 10 mg twice a day
(20 mg/day) before my surgery to treat my nipple. It definitely helped reduce the tenderness, and it shrunk in size. After 1 month my levels were:
test - 357
Estrogen - 2 ng/dL
free test - 10
But a few weeks after the month of Tamoxifen my nipple went back to being tender, and back to its normal size. So about 3 weeks ago he gave me a prescription for about 4 months worth of Tamoxifen at 20 mg/day, and it has helped again.
My question is this:
My test levels are still around 330 so the doc prescribed me Arimidex at 1 mg/day, and we will check my levels after 6 weeks. He says that he has several bodybuilders on the same combination of 20 mg Tamoxifen/day and 1 mg Arimidex/day, and it should raise my test to around 500. I have been living with low Test for several years, and I would like to get my natural production to above 700...so I obviously jumped at the thought of finally getting on the right path.
But on the Arimidex site it states "ARIMIDEX should not be taken with tamoxifen or with estrogen-containing therapies"...so is that just for women since it is mainly used as a breast cancer treatment...or should it not be combined for men as well???
If there is an expert out there who can tell me what the combination of those two drugs will do I would greatly appreciate it. Also, is it safe to drink alcohol while taking those prescriptions?
Thanks a lot!
popica
New member
Hi thre,
I had varicocele surgery 5 years ago. now I am 31 before surgery my test was low, probably because I finished my test-deca cycle, but after surgery it was fine, and spermatogenesis greatly improved.now everything is well.
also it needs for spermatogenesis 3 month for full mature so you can see results.testosterone and other hormone as LH, and FSH, will bring normal also if below normal.
after surgery ,at leas 3 month or so ,even more in some cases is needed to fully recover spermatozoa motility ,number ect, also for greater hormone output.
I had varicocele surgery 5 years ago. now I am 31 before surgery my test was low, probably because I finished my test-deca cycle, but after surgery it was fine, and spermatogenesis greatly improved.now everything is well.
also it needs for spermatogenesis 3 month for full mature so you can see results.testosterone and other hormone as LH, and FSH, will bring normal also if below normal.
after surgery ,at leas 3 month or so ,even more in some cases is needed to fully recover spermatozoa motility ,number ect, also for greater hormone output.
darkblue1
Member
Thats really very good news from varicocele sufferers. I guess Since you had surgery at 25 years (young), it worked in your case.
uptempo
Member
So guess what guys, I went to the urologist today, and he told me that even though Ive been in pain after a month, he still doesn't believe surgery is necessary yet. My varicocele is a grade 3. He thinks that the varicocele might not be the cause of the pain because I am feeling pain on both my left and right sides of my lower abdomenom...with a pulling pain close to the base of my penis...I asked him what could be causing the pain if it isnt the varicocele...he said "I really don't know..could be chronic testicular pain". (??????) I told him I've been on levaquin for 2 rounds now to rule out prostatitis and epididymitus...and he said "I'll give you some more ibuprofen and come back in 4-6 weeks" (even though I told him I've been doing that the LAST MONTH with minimal help).
So to VARICOCELE sufferers, I got a question for you guys, did you guys feel a strong pulling pain to the left or the right sides at the base of your penis by any chance? (the pain radiates to the bottom half of the penis too).
So to VARICOCELE sufferers, I got a question for you guys, did you guys feel a strong pulling pain to the left or the right sides at the base of your penis by any chance? (the pain radiates to the bottom half of the penis too).
beckerj
Member
YES ! For me I had huge Varicoceles (20 Ligated) on my left side and 7 varicoceles on my right side ....
While they were present it was a constant pull on my groin .... As for the base of the penis though I am not too sure on that one ....
You need to get to another Dr. .... As you have read through the posts here you will note that most if not all of us that have had the surgery have to go through at least 2 Dr.'s before we get the okay for surgery .... Sometimes more ....
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news .....
darkblue1
Member
Confirmed doctors cant help in your case,because they dont know how to cure it and what caused the problem.
Try pranic healing.In one session you can get some relief.
After 6 months sffering form muscle pains and muscles behaving differently and pain at bladder(important for me) , within one session my pain gone.I felt complete relief .Doctors couldnt find a cure for my pain at around bladder and down towards pen*s. I went to neurologist,urologist,orthopedic,gastro for this pain.You can give it a shot.If you go to a pranic healer (must be advanced healer) just tell them you have pain down there. They will try to releive your pain.
shyguava
New member
Hey Becker.....If you had 20 Varicoceles ligated then what does your research say about how many veins are left in the tesicular cord to supply that "vital" region. Geesh...20 sounds kinda like "many" lol