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why use serm and natty test booster?

thats why the OCT PCT althought frowned upon at least you know what your getting...

IDS PCT tabs, Primal Male and low dose Tdrive Extreme (2 pills).

i think Reversitol is good as well (possibly better depending on how much ATD used.), stacked with hemotest by nutrabolics.

i think those 2 would be the best bet for the OTC PCT, not reccommended on long length high dose cycles though



thats what i would run if i couldnt get a serm
 
crazyfool405 said:
thats why the OCT PCT althought frowned upon at least you know what your getting...

IDS PCT tabs, Primal Male and low dose Tdrive Extreme (2 pills).

i think Reversitol is good as well (possibly better depending on how much ATD used.), stacked with hemotest by nutrabolics.

i think those 2 would be the best bet for the OTC PCT, not reccommended on long length high dose cycles though



thats what i would run if i couldnt get a serm
Click to expand...

i think you misunderstood what i meant.........i mean why would you use both a serm and a natty test booster bc a proper serm will restore hpta regardless.
 
I wouldn't be so quick about giving these supplement companies too much credit, have you heard about the batch of Phera that contained up to 4.0mg more of active ingredient than was stated on the label, this is an alarming fact that speaks volumes about the quality control and quality assurance practices employed by some supplement companies.

Though i do agree with your point about steering clear of research chemicals, i can't see why these items are recommended so frequently, especially when these types of compounds aren't subject to quality controls. In fact, many boards have threads that talk about ineffective or under dosed research chemicals.

If you are looking for absolute certainty when it comes to quality look for pharma grade products or supps that are manufactured in GMP environments, even go as far as to request copies of certificates of analysis.

That scene from 'bigger faster stronger' where the documentary maker produces his own supplement in his kitchen, highlights what i am talking about.
 
And running Stoked with your serm the Trans-Resveratrol is a awesome substance it is a great anti-oxidant and libido enhancer. I will leave you a couple of links that may help. I wish you the best let me know if I can help.:thumbsup:

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed
 
10195079 said:
I wouldn't be so quick about giving these supplement companies too much credit, have you heard about the batch of Phera that contained up to 4.0mg more of active ingredient than was stated on the label, this is an alarming fact that speaks volumes about the quality control and quality assurance practices employed by some supplement companies.

Though i do agree with your point about steering clear of research chemicals, i can't see why these items are recommended so frequently, especially when these types of compounds aren't subject to quality controls. In fact, many boards have threads that talk about ineffective or under dosed research chemicals.

If you are looking for absolute certainty when it comes to quality look for pharma grade products or supps that are manufactured in GMP environments, even go as far as to request copies of certificates of analysis.

That scene from 'bigger faster stronger' where the documentary maker produces his own supplement in his kitchen, highlights what i am talking about.
Click to expand...


yes i heard of that batch, and it contains 15 mg of the correct ingredient as well as 4 mg of a differiernt isomer,(3-ene i believe)

but there are labs assays on it, tested independantly as well.
 
crazyfool405 said:
because it can help speed up the process of recovery by mimicing LH and binding to SHBG to free up total test.
Click to expand...

neither serms nor natty test boosters mimic leutenizing hormone....a serm increases it by acting as an anti-estrogen in the pituitary. i don't think it makes any sense to say they bind to SHBG to free up total test.... it doesn't sound like you know the role of SHBG..... disabling SHBG isn't going to do anything to total test....the only thing it would do would increase free test (SHBG binds to test i.e. bound test, or doesn't bind to it i.e. free test).
 
no one has answered my question yet so i'll try and rephrase it.............. in your pct....why would you use a serm and natty test booster simultaneously at the beginning of pct?...i just don't see a point to it besides the insurance if you happen to have a bunk serm
 
UofIlifting11 said:
neither serms nor natty test boosters mimic leutenizing hormone....a serm increases it by acting as an anti-estrogen in the pituitary. i don't think it makes any sense to say they bind to SHBG to free up total test.... it doesn't sound like you know the role of SHBG..... disabling SHBG isn't going to do anything to total test....the only thing it would do would increase free test (SHBG binds to test i.e. bound test, or doesn't bind to it i.e. free test).
Click to expand...


ok by mimicing i ment increasing LH levels.....

something like fadogia will help increase LH levels....

yes the serm increases it as well.

no it doesnt make sense to say they bind up to the SHBG thats not the action of the SERM

what i ment with the SHBG

Next, Halodrol Liquigels™ contains a very pure version of a plant lignan that has been sold in the supplement marketplace for many years (Stinging Nettle Root) as a libido enhancer. The very pure version of this plant lignan has been correlated with an increase in bioavailable testosterone levels in many independent studies. Data suggests that this plant lignan competes against endogenous androgens for binding space on Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), a plasma protein in humans which "shuttles" androgens like testosterone around the body. However, if a hormone is "bound" (e.g. - stuck) to SHBG then it can't interact with (skeletal muscle) cells to impart any effect. By competing against endogenous androgens for space on SHBG, this plant lignan potentially "frees up" more testosterone, making more of it available to interact with (skeletal muscle) cells so it can impart its muscle and performance modulating effects.


taken from gaspari nutrition

sorry if my writting seemed off, or confusing, seems to happen a lot
 
crazyfool405 said:
ok by mimicing i ment increasing LH levels.....

something like fadogia will help increase LH levels....

yes the serm increases it as well.

no it doesnt make sense to say they bind up to the SHBG thats not the action of the SERM

what i ment with the SHBG

Next, Halodrol Liquigels™ contains a very pure version of a plant lignan that has been sold in the supplement marketplace for many years (Stinging Nettle Root) as a libido enhancer. The very pure version of this plant lignan has been correlated with an increase in bioavailable testosterone levels in many independent studies. Data suggests that this plant lignan competes against endogenous androgens for binding space on Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), a plasma protein in humans which "shuttles" androgens like testosterone around the body. However, if a hormone is "bound" (e.g. - stuck) to SHBG then it can't interact with (skeletal muscle) cells to impart any effect. By competing against endogenous androgens for space on SHBG, this plant lignan potentially "frees up" more testosterone, making more of it available to interact with (skeletal muscle) cells so it can impart its muscle and performance modulating effects.


taken from gaspari nutrition

sorry if my writting seemed off, or confusing, seems to happen a lot
Click to expand...


the part you had bolded was basically confirming what i said in the previous post.... i'm a little confused as to why you posted it.
 
basically how it sounded in my head isnt what i wrote,

that just explained what i ment better. in a way that it was easier for me to understand.
 
UofIlifting11 said:
no one has answered my question yet so i'll try and rephrase it.............. in your pct....why would you use a serm and natty test booster simultaneously at the beginning of pct?...i just don't see a point to it besides the insurance if you happen to have a bunk serm
Click to expand...


Running a test booster with the serm will help get natural test levels back to normal faster. The longer it takes your body to start producing test on it's own the greater the chance of losing your gains.:thumbsup:
 
10195079 said:
I wouldn't be so quick about giving these supplement companies too much credit, have you heard about the batch of Phera that contained up to 4.0mg more of active ingredient than was stated on the label, this is an alarming fact that speaks volumes about the quality control and quality assurance practices employed by some supplement companies.

Though i do agree with your point about steering clear of research chemicals, i can't see why these items are recommended so frequently, especially when these types of compounds aren't subject to quality controls. In fact, many boards have threads that talk about ineffective or under dosed research chemicals.

If you are looking for absolute certainty when it comes to quality look for pharma grade products or supps that are manufactured in GMP environments, even go as far as to request copies of certificates of analysis.

That scene from 'bigger faster stronger' where the documentary maker produces his own supplement in his kitchen, highlights what i am talking about.
Click to expand...

If you had looked at CEL COA for those batches of Phera your talking about CEL made it clear that they tested for 19mg per cap so they were not trying to mislead anyone that is why everyone should research what thet are taking:thumbsup:
 
UofIlifting11, you would certainly want to take both. The reason that you would want to take both is because each has a separate role in your PCT. The natty test booster is, of course, to help "kickstart" your body's natural testosterone production. The SERM is to prevent the estrogen in your system from binding to the estrogen receptors in breast cells.
 
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