Better gains: Superdrol vs Epistane(Havoc)?

Superdrol or Epistane/Havoc

  • Superdrol

    Votes: 341 66.1%

  • Epistane/Havoc

    Votes: 175 33.9%
  • Total voters
    516
I love both compounds like each was a nut of mine. With SD I gained more, but had more sides. With Epi, I could use more or less and feel great. And still lean out and gain at moderate doses for bigger guys.

For me SD was a better gainer, but Much, Much harsher sides. At being almost 30, I am OK with taking a little longer to be HUGE and being healthy. EPI-HAV all the way today baby!
 
motiv8er said:
I love both compounds like each was a nut of mine. With SD I gained more, but had more sides. With Epi, I could use more or less and feel great. And still lean out and gain at moderate doses for bigger guys.

For me SD was a better gainer, but Much, Much harsher sides. At being almost 30, I am OK with taking a little longer to be HUGE and being healthy. EPI-HAV all the way today baby!
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I think how one reacts to SuperDrol in terms of sides is pretty dependent on the brand. The easiest manner to synthesize SD is from Anadrol (SuperDrol came from supersaturated Anadrol at the 2 position, IIIRC); a poor conversion could leave high amounts of the original compound in SuperDrol. Many of the side-effects people report are indicative of Anadrol, and not what SD is on paper, at least.
 
pitching101 said:
What would give me better gain: 6 weeks of Havoc (20/30/40/40/40/50) or 3 weeks of low dosed SD?
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I think it would depend primarily on your goals. Even if the weight gain is the same, the quality of weight may be different due to the different actions of the compounds, as well as the dosing period. 6 weeks vs., 3 weeks allows the body to synthesize tissue from the stored glycogen anabolic imparts, and really allows the body to develop from the vastly increased protein synthesis.
 
Superdrol gave me insane gains in size and strength, the sides were strange though. I have read that Superdrol has diuretic properties, but I bloated up like a balloon. I didn't have any lethargy or loss of appetite. No acne, no lethargy, and only minor back pumps. In three weeks I gained 15 pounds, and all lifts went up about 50 lbs., but it seemed that most of it was water, even with proper pct I have only retained 4 pounds and lost some strength (so disheartening :(). On epi I gained 6 pounds and kept 4. Had worse back pumps on epi than super. Strength steadily increased. It is a no brainer for me, superdrol gave me dramatic gains in size, way more than epi, but I couldn't keep it.
 
eggplant21 said:
Superdrol gave me insane gains in size and strength, the sides were strange though. I have read that Superdrol has diuretic properties, but I bloated up like a balloon. I didn't have any lethargy or loss of appetite. No acne, no lethargy, and only minor back pumps. In three weeks I gained 15 pounds, and all lifts went up about 50 lbs., but it seemed that most of it was water, even with proper pct I have only retained 4 pounds and lost some strength (so disheartening :(). On epi I gained 6 pounds and kept 4. Had worse back pumps on epi than super. Strength steadily increased. It is a no brainer for me, superdrol gave me dramatic gains in size, way more than epi, but I couldn't keep it.
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Epi seems to have to be dosed higher than the bottle prescribes.

I am enjoying 50mg... 30 and 40 seemed to little...

I dunno, I haven't run super, but I will pretty soon here once I get through recovering from the epi. I am up 9 lbs week 3 of epi... hope I keep it.
 
Mulletsoldier said:
I think how one reacts to SuperDrol in terms of sides is pretty dependent on the brand. The easiest manner to synthesize SD is from Anadrol (SuperDrol came from supersaturated Anadrol at the 2 position, IIIRC); a poor conversion could leave high amounts of the original compound in SuperDrol. Many of the side-effects people report are indicative of Anadrol, and not what SD is on paper, at least.
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:goodpost:
 
Mulletsoldier said:
I think it would depend primarily on your goals. Even if the weight gain is the same, the quality of weight may be different due to the different actions of the compounds, as well as the dosing period. 6 weeks vs., 3 weeks allows the body to synthesize tissue from the stored glycogen anabolic imparts, and really allows the body to develop from the vastly increased protein synthesis.
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Again :goodpost:

longer time on usually = more true muscle kept. Side effects are the only issue here.... epi is pretty mild to some and hell on others... It's been good to me so far.

SD is pretty harsh on most... I am still gonna give mdrol a whirl though.
 
I gained almost 25 lbs. on a 4 week pulse of M-Drol. 5 lbs of that came during PCT.
Epidrol gave me nothing but slight hardness and surprising gyno after 3 weeks, when I stopped it...

I might do another cycle of M-drol soon or H-drol, depending on availability of PCT supplies.
 
Erekose said:
I gained almost 25 lbs. on a 4 week pulse of M-Drol. 5 lbs of that came during PCT.
Epidrol gave me nothing but slight hardness and surprising gyno after 3 weeks, when I stopped it...

I might do another cycle of M-drol soon or H-drol, depending on availability of PCT supplies.
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Tha's an incredible amount you gained from only 4 weeks...... and pulsed yet!! Reps just for that. And you look awesome in your avatar bro. Keep up the hard work. Bravo!! :clap2:
 
thundergod said:
Tha's an incredible amount you gained from only 4 weeks...... and pulsed yet!! Reps just for that. And you look awesome in your avatar bro. Keep up the hard work. Bravo!! :clap2:
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Thanks very much for the kind words.

I think Superdrol (M-Drol) is a superior compound for getting bigger faster, but each individual will have to weigh the cost to benefit ratio for themselves.
 
dan12 said:
approx how long does it take for havoc to "kick in"?
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Most people say two weeks... I would honestly say I didn't really feel "on" until around 40mg. I've gotten bigger on the epi, but i definately don't have the aggression that I did on even MMV2. Looking forward to my upcoming mdrol run.
 
dan12 said:
approx how long does it take for havoc to "kick in"?
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Providing you're taking a decent dosage of it, I would say 10 to 14 days. That's when I've always "felt" it coming on. It's definitely a "feel good" compound. For me it's "hard-ons in a bottle"!! ha ha :lol:
 
jus for gains ?
SD is far more better then epi
sd can be run at 10mg for 4 weeks and u can run epi for 40-50mg and u still wont get the same results as SD ..but ofcourse sides are way worse while running sd
 
thundergod said:
Providing you're taking a decent dosage of it, I would say 10 to 14 days. That's when I've always "felt" it coming on. It's definitely a "feel good" compound. For me it's "hard-ons in a bottle"!! ha ha :lol:
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what would you consider a decent dosage? 30? 40?
 
dan12 said:
what would you consider a decent dosage? 30? 40?
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Yeah. At either dose you should start to "feel" it kicking in after 10 to 14 days for sure! Most feel it even earlier.:thumbsup:
 
GQNemesis said:
jus for gains ?
SD is far more better then epi
sd can be run at 10mg for 4 weeks and u can run epi for 40-50mg and u still wont get the same results as SD ..but ofcourse sides are way worse while running sd
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seriously?? that is making me not want to even try epi bro
 
P4D2A022 said:
seriously?? that is making me not want to even try epi bro
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The sides are the big toss up with the superdrol. It's hands down the best for gains vs mg ingested, but damn it does a number on most people's bodies. TG doesn't count, as he is immortal. :twisted:
 
GMG760 said:
The sides are the big toss up with the superdrol. It's hands down the best for gains vs mg ingested, but damn it does a number on most people's bodies. TG doesn't count, as he is immortal. :twisted:
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i know. but 10mg sd gains more so than 40-50mg of epi/havoc gains???
 
GMG760 said:
The sides are the big toss up with the superdrol. It's hands down the best for gains vs mg ingested, but damn it does a number on most people's bodies. TG doesn't count, as he is immortal. :twisted:
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HA HA HA!! :lol: That's true enough. :box: I have 8 bottles of Super-Drol in my secret stash!!! I love the sh*t fo real!! I've never had any bad sides from Super-Drol. Notwithstanding me being immortal, I also take many pre-cautions during my cycles. I make sure to cover all my bases with ancillaries and support supps!! But yeah, it's easily the best bang for your buck when it comes to OTC Designers. :thumbsup:
 
P4D2A022 said:
i know. but 10mg sd gains more so than 40-50mg of epi/havoc gains???
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Kinda ridiculous, isn't it??!! I'll tell you the only reason I use Epi at all, is to run it with wetter compounds like Phera or D-Bol to keep me somewhat dry on-cycle. It was originally developed for breast cancer treatment. It works like a SERM and an aromatase inhibitor. But I wouldn't waste the money it would take to run it standalone. With me running Super-Drol at 30 mg per day usually, it would take me running 60 or 70 or even 80 mg. of Epi to get the same amount of gains. Too much money for that kind of cycle!! :nono:
 
P4D2A022 said:
gotcha bro. thats insane. i think ill save my $$ then!
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Real gear is cheaper than all of this OTC sh*t anyway. Or so I hear!!! ;)
 
thundergod said:
Real gear is cheaper than all of this OTC sh*t anyway. Or so I hear!!! ;)
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Yes and no. ;)
Plus:
Not going to Jail > Few extra $ saved.

100 tabs of Anadrol can get much more expensive than 100 caps of M-drol if Law Enforcement gets involved.
Viva Superdrol!
 
Superdrol is the best, i did many cycles and never had a problem, Havoc one cycle and developped a weird tiny lump right tits.

I had used Two pills of Viagra few days before i got the gyno symptom, that did not get worse during the two next weeks i kept using havoc.... Weird!!!
 
masterX said:
Superdrol is the best, i did many cycles and never had a problem, Havoc one cycle and developped a weird tiny lump right tits.

I had used Two pills of Viagra few days before i got the gyno symptom, that did not get worse during the two next weeks i kept using havoc.... Weird!!!
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I've never heard much of on cycle gyno with Epi... most cases that I have heard of have been post cycle.

On cycle gyno with Super... that I have heard of.
 
GMG760 said:
I've never heard much of on cycle gyno with Epi... most cases that I have heard of have been post cycle.

On cycle gyno with Super... that I have heard of.
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okay, go read the forum many bros had similar gyno from Havoc/Epi compound,
same symptom that started week 2.

Invalid Link Removed
 
thundergod said:
Real gear is cheaper than all of this OTC sh*t anyway. Or so I hear!!! ;)
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Injectibles certainly are, in terms of gains vs. amount spent, but then again you need more ancillaries to run them properly (hCG, AIs, SERMS, Needles, swabs etc.) it all starts to mount up by the end!

However I'd have to disagree on orals, anavar, winstrol and turinabol are all expensive as hell, dbol is probably the cheapest.

masterX said:
okay, go read the forum many bros had similar gyno from Havoc/Epi compound,
same symptom that started week 2.

Invalid Link Removed
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This worries me a lot, I'll be taking extra precautions when I run my e-stane cycle.
 
UKStrength said:
Injectibles certainly are, in terms of gains vs. amount spent, but then again you need more ancillaries to run them properly (hCG, AIs, SERMS, Needles, swabs etc.) it all starts to mount up by the end!

However I'd have to disagree on orals, anavar, winstrol and turinabol are all expensive as hell, dbol is probably the cheapest.



This worries me a lot, I'll be taking extra precautions when I run my e-stane cycle.
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Just so you know gyno with havoc started end of week 2 & nipple gets hot.

gets hot= like the chest(right tits) is sore/burning...??? weird feeling

I kept using havoc three more weeks, tumor(very tiny lump) did not grow and i did not use anything against because it s not common gyno symptom.
I preferred to be cautious not adding others substances in my body (total 5 weeks @ 20mg)

The symptom is no noticeable but it remains in my nipples i believe it will leave alone, i m using powerfull it may reduce the "weird gyno" .

I can tell the tumor is leaving but very slowly. HOPE!?
 
I've got the opportunity to buy some Superdrol @ $60 a bottle. Is it still worth it to buy? Or is it too old and has lost its potency? Thanks guys
 
masterX said:
okay, go read the forum many bros had similar gyno from Havoc/Epi compound,
same symptom that started week 2.

Invalid Link Removed
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"I did a lot of research on this at the time and didn't find many real answers other than DrD mentioning "tumor flame" associated with the death of breast tissue or cells known as Apoptosis. hxxp://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/74724-epistane-problem-2.html My only advice would be to make sure you have your PCT all figured out, especially taking into account your possible hypersensitivity to swings in your estrogen levels."

Most of these guys aren't talking about gyno in the thread you linked to, they are talking about a burning sensation during the REDUCTION of their gyno. Most of the guys who felt burning said their chest fat and possibly previous gyno.

Epistane is an AI. It should not aromatise. Misuse of ATD during PCT is often the culprit of a lot of gyno cases because of estrogen rebound from not tapering it down correctly.
 
masterX said:
Just so you know gyno with havoc started end of week 2 & nipple gets hot.

gets hot= like the chest(right tits) is sore/burning...??? weird feeling

I kept using havoc three more weeks, tumor(very tiny lump) did not grow and i did not use anything against because it s not common gyno symptom.
I preferred to be cautious not adding others substances in my body (total 5 weeks @ 20mg)

The symptom is no noticeable but it remains in my nipples i believe it will leave alone, i m using powerfull it may reduce the "weird gyno" .

I can tell the tumor is leaving but very slowly. HOPE!?
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Maybe the Anti-E effects of Havoc/Epi produces a rebound in Prolactin on-cycle? Would this lead to the 'burning' sensation though??

I might shove some Macuna Pruriens into my cycle to combat the prolactin and rule it out.

It does seem weird that these posts about burning nipples are turning up now as opposed to when epi first came out, are people doing anything different on cycle as opposed to before?
 
UKStrength said:
Maybe the Anti-E effects of Havoc/Epi produces a rebound in Prolactin on-cycle? Would this lead to the 'burning' sensation though??

I might shove some Macuna Pruriens into my cycle to combat the prolactin and rule it out.

It does seem weird that these posts about burning nipples are turning up now as opposed to when epi first came out, are people doing anything different on cycle as opposed to before?
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Havoc @ 20mg for 5 weeks i only used viagra (kamagra) twice, taurine and liv-52...

I built a solid new lean mass
It s a good product, it is why i ll give it another try and the tumor did not worsen??weird?

On the forum at bodybuilding.com there was lot of people with gyno issue because of epithio stuff.
 
GMG760 said:
"I did a lot of research on this at the time and didn't find many real answers other than DrD mentioning "tumor flame" associated with the death of breast tissue or cells known as Apoptosis. hxxp://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/74724-epistane-problem-2.html My only advice would be to make sure you have your PCT all figured out, especially taking into account your possible hypersensitivity to swings in your estrogen levels."

Most of these guys aren't talking about gyno in the thread you linked to, they are talking about a burning sensation during the REDUCTION of their gyno. Most of the guys who felt burning said their chest fat and possibly previous gyno.

Epistane is an AI. It should not aromatise. Misuse of ATD during PCT is often the culprit of a lot of gyno cases because of estrogen rebound from not tapering it down correctly.
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it should doesn t mean it can not, talk about proper pct while most people got the "gyno flame" ( a new symptom ever) two weeks after first pills during their cycle.

Most doesn t mean all of these guys, as the member "erekose" who is experienced into gears and real stuffs, we can tell, it s not estonishing to get weird symptom while using a pro-hormones, this is also the reason a lot users prefer the real juice.
 
masterX said:
it should doesn t mean it can not, talk about proper pct while most people got the "gyno flame" ( a new symptom ever) two weeks after first pills during their cycle.

Most doesn t mean all of these guys, as the member "erekose" who is experienced into gears and real stuffs, we can tell, it s not estonishing to get weird symptom while using a pro-hormones, this is also the reason a lot users prefer the real juice.
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I'm not really sure how an Aromatase Inhibitor would aromatize...

And yes, I believe that people felt this "flame" in their chest, just most on that thread spoke of it when their gyno was actually reducing. Dr. D even said that it was from the reduction of breast tissue, not gyno (the increase), on that thread.

You could have an increase in estrogen as your hormones are trying to level out (this can happen with ANY anabolic), but the epistane itself will not aromatize to estrogen... I'm pretty positive about this.

I'm not arguing that you have gotten gyno from an Epistane cycle, I just think it may not be directly from the epistane. But whatever man, it's really all just speculation at this point.
 
Only the left tits had a symptom with real gears, when i got the "gyno flame" right tits, i immediatly known it was normal to get a weird feeling the wrong side because i am using a pro hormones.
 
Ronnie said:
Hmmm I was just doing as Tripdog recommended. No lethargy to report yet.:ntome:
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No lathargy yet!! Yet is the key word trust me you will feel slow and tired toward week thre I did! BTW I gained 15 lbs. in two weeks of Cyclo Bolan a SD HD stack
 
Dutchman said:
FWIW, I have a half dozen superdrol cycles under my belt and some here at AM know me from long SD threads here and at BB as we worked our way through it. I love SD, I made big gains in strength and size on SD, I had minimal sides on SD with libido unaffected and I had my biggest problem on SD with my BP. Now I have only been on Epi for a couple of days but I am finding strength increases every bit as good as on SD but immediate NOT after two weeks on cycle. And as I check my daily BP I am holding up much better than with SD. Oh for any of you kids who think I'm talking about mini weights, today I jumped up from 520 to 540 (12 X 45lb plates) for 5 reps on our Hammer Strength Seated Triceps Pushdown Machine. Thats an immediate jump of 20 lbs. Thats a lot IMHO. My HS machine Pulldowns and Rows were BOTH up 20 on Thursday to 8 X 45 each for 6 reps. Point is, even when lifting rather heavy, Epi brings great strength gains faster than SD.
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I did a sd hd stack and noticed SD increasesd strenth and size in one week!
 
i took havoc and mdrol before. i gained 18lb with havoc and like 5 with mdrol. i geuss everyones just different. if anyone can explain what happend that would be good
 
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