Popular drug makeups/nomenclatures
- Thread starter ecu19
- Start date
Shizzle
New member
They're all in this sticky above.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/89979-otc-hormone-chart.html
Nice skeleton pics though.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/89979-otc-hormone-chart.html
Nice skeleton pics though.
ecu19
Active member
Yep, saw that, might end up making skeletons for all of them for a visual.
tilerbreaker
New member
superdrol is missing the 17b-OH (in your image)...nice otherwise
Mass_69
Well-known member
ecu19
Active member
I was under the impression that SD did not contain an OH at the 17th, which would have been indicated by the -ol (17b-ol). Is there something that i'm missing? Sorry, always constantly learning, as I never claim to be an expert on this!
tnick7
Active member
Halodrol is not active. It needs to be converted, (therefore it IS a prohormone):
Halodrol:
4-chloro-17a-methyl-1,4-androstadiene-3,17b-diol
notice it's a diol, so to convert to its target hormone, the 3-ol needs to become 3-one (via 3b-HSD).
so the target hormone would look like this:
4-chloro-17a-methyl-1,4-androstadiene-3-one-17b-ol (Turanibol)
3,17 have their own activity though, and Ziquor explains it nicely here :
Invalid Link Removed
Halodrol:
4-chloro-17a-methyl-1,4-androstadiene-3,17b-diol
notice it's a diol, so to convert to its target hormone, the 3-ol needs to become 3-one (via 3b-HSD).
so the target hormone would look like this:
4-chloro-17a-methyl-1,4-androstadiene-3-one-17b-ol (Turanibol)
3,17 have their own activity though, and Ziquor explains it nicely here :
Invalid Link Removed
Mass_69
Well-known member
This has been covered many times on this board.
Some examples: Invalid Link Removed & Invalid Link Removed
Remember, testosterone is a "prohormone" to DHT, but has it's own activity when binding to the AR.
tnick7
Active member
I am not a chemist but this is how I see it:
Halodrol converts to oral turanibol.
All original prohormones are basically precursors to known steroids.
Original 1-AD is a precursor to 1-test
Original 4-AD is a precursor to testosterone
Halodrol(and clones) is a precursor to Turanibol
The fact that it has mild activity cannot (IMO) be compared to testosterone
I look at Halodrol to be a Prohormone as the majority of it turns into a target hormone oral turanibol
Ziquor
Well-known member
When I 1st got into checking out the chemistry of PH/PS's, I assumed that a PH or a PS was basically a weaker version of its parent, but the same nonetheless.
Also the amount of the hormones 'own' activity or pre-activity seems to vary from one compound to another. This may be due to the compounds RBA for each receptor.
Also the amount of the hormones 'own' activity or pre-activity seems to vary from one compound to another. This may be due to the compounds RBA for each receptor.
tnick7
Active member
Ziquor
Well-known member
I went back & forth with terms before but I suppose I've always considered it a Pro (insert your favorite term here) - since it gets most of its activity from conversion. The term prosteroid which popped up a few years from the supplement industry seems like a decent description.
Many like to call it a steroid but if everything that had activity at the receptor was called steroids, there'd be many obscure steroids out there. NO has minor, partial activity at the sites it's far from being considered a steroid.
Many like to call it a steroid but if everything that had activity at the receptor was called steroids, there'd be many obscure steroids out there. NO has minor, partial activity at the sites it's far from being considered a steroid.
tilerbreaker
New member
Many people seem to think H-drol is both a pro-steroid to OT and is somewhat active on it's own...don't know if that's ever been conclusively proven though...
(And by active, I mean, can bind ARs without any conversion and activate AR-dependent signaling...)
tnick7
Active member
Yeah I know. However the majority of the activity comes from the conversion to OT. I stated (which IMO it is) that it is Prohormone as oppose to a steroid and then someone disagreed. I suppose a pro-steroid is an accurate term for it though.
Shizzle
New member
Ziquor
Well-known member
This was pointed out above via the links. The 17beta-hydroxy (17b-ol) enzyme allows binding to the androgen receptor. Thus all 3,17-dione and 3,17-diol hormones bind to the androgen receptor before converting to the target hormone. The pre-activity is usually slight, yet enough to give the compound a slightly different profile & 'feel' than their target.
Ziquor
Well-known member
Stats depending. Muscle memory alone should bounce you back more quickly than normal though.
tilerbreaker
New member
tilerbreaker
New member
This is sort of right, but sort of not. It's the 17b-OH group ON the steroid that allows AR binding (and is pretty much required for efficient binding and activation). The enzyme 17b-HSD converts a 17-keto (C=O) to a 17b-OH (17a-H).
I would say diols are more likely to bind the AR without conversion, but this will depend on the structural features of the A and B rings. Often though, diols don't bind very well either. But this is good for H-drol, which seems to have a good A ring structure for this (the 4-Cl maybe?). But I don't think you can generalize across compounds.
Anyway, not trying to argue or start a pissing match, so please don't take it that way. I felt like I was getting a little attitude from some of your replies...I almost didn't post this. Forgive me if I misinterpreted...
Mass_69
Well-known member
I understand what you're trying to say regarding prohormones, and I'm assuming when you say "steroids," you're referring to "highly active" steroids. Prohormones are steroids by the very definition, just typically not as strong as the intended parent compound.
Halodrol can be compared to testosterone as far as being a "prohormone," but maybe not as much if you are speaking purely from an anabolic standpoint (remember, testosterone and it's metabolites do many other things in the body besides build muscle). There's no real hardcore evidence of exactly how active or inactive HD is. It has been reported (don't recall what chemist) that HD is more androgenic than OT, and that has been matched by anecdotal reports, meaning that HD itself is having enough activity for people that have used both to see the difference. Do you know how much of testosterone's bioactivity is direct vs. mediated through other hormone conversion (DHT & estradiol)?
I never disagreed that HD is a prohormone itself, you said it is not "active." That's where I disagreed.
Thank you for the nomenclature lesson and charting the prohormones to the parents for me. All those hydroxyls & ketones were getting scary...
BTW, the term pro-steroid was a marketing tactic to sell legal steroids (MOHN, 1-Test, M1T, etc.) back in the day, not an accurate use back then.
Ziquor
Well-known member
Pissing match? Nope just providing info. I agree with your statement here, which is also partly what I was saying above in regards to 17beta-hydroxyl. It seems that many terms with OTC AAS have been 'bent' over the years to help keep them under wraps as much as possible. 17b-ol, 17b-dione, 17b-diol, 17beta-hydroxy, etioallocholan vs androstan, and so on.
As for conversion rates, about a dozen of the older 'now banned' OTC AAS were tested in vivo. The diones they tested converted at 5.61% as dione versions use the enzyme 17-beta-HSD and the diol versions were at 15.76% since they use the 3-beta enzyme which is more efficient. There was one random diol which was a little higher, but which I can't remember at this point which. It's possible to vary from one to another but nobody truly knows about any AAS still out now, unless they ever get tested as well.
Halodrol, from the old testing from Gaspari & SFR, was found to have a A:A of about 78:36. OT has an A:A of approximately 113:6 which would show pre-conversion activity at the receptor for Halodrol. Also anyone I've known who ran both said Halodrol was more androgenic in terms of thinning.
Unfortunately there's no 100% concrete 'scientific' evidence either way with 'grey area' AAS and it usually remains that way until the FDA/DEA get their hands on them.