Steriods = no kids?

Ectofighter said:
Bump? what does that mean?
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"Bump" means that by posting, your thread gets pushed to the top of the subforum for others to see so it doesn't get left unseen. Usually, those who "bump" a thread, think you had a good question, are also interested in hearing opinions/answers, but don't necessarily have anything specific to add themselves.

Ok, my turn... bump :D
 
Anabolic steroids have numerous effects on the body. The reproductive effects are seen in men by a dose dependent suppression of FSH and LH leading to suppression of the hypothalamic-pituitary axis (hypogonadotropic hypogonadism). Both LH and FSH are required for spermatogenesis. This results in decreased sperm counts, decreased motility, abnormal morphology, and testicular atrophy. It is possible that the elevated androgens also act suppressive locally in the testes. All of these were seen with this patient. It is important to discuss with the patient some of the other effects of anabolic steroids, as they may directly affect his health (2). Orally taken anabolic steroids, typically the C-17 alkylated anabolic steroids (methyltestosterone, metandienone, oxymetholone, oxandrolone, and stanozolol) are associated with liver toxicity and elevations in liver enzymes. These generally return to normal after the drug is discontinued. Serum lipid profiles may be altered which include increases in LDL and decreases in HDL. The increase in LDL may be associated with an increased potential for atherosclerosis. Blood pressure may increase due to increased fluid retention and volume retention. It is reasonable to assess the liver function, hepatic and cardiovascular function of the patient.

The reproductive effects of anabolic steroids are not permanent and may reverse with discontinuation of the medication. Gazvani et al (4) reported on the conservative management of azoospermia following anabolic steroid abuse in a case report of 4 men. The time from discontinuation to normal semen parameters ranged from 5 to 18 months. Thus, much variability existed. Turek et al (5) reported on a single case where the azoospermic male discontinued all anabolic steroids and began a regimen of trice weekly HCG injections (2000 IU) for 1 month followed by 3000 IU trice weekly for 3 additional months. The wife became pregnant by 3 months of therapy and the semen parameters normalized. It is of interest that a testis biopsy was performed which showed presence of all germinal precursor cells except mature spermatozoa indicating maturation arrest pattern. Pena et a (6) found that anabolic steroid induced azoospermia reversed 3 months after discontinuation in an HIV infected man undergoing IVF, again showing the variability of the return to normal spermatogenesis. With respect to the couple seeking care, several of the cases did return to normal semen parameters within 6 months. His unfortunately did not. The study using HCG injections and one published by Menon (7) where HCG and hMG injections were used resulted in pregnancy within a reasonable amount of time (3 and 7 months, respectively) without resorting to ART. Thus medical management should be suggested as least invasive approach.
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google
 
Ectofighter said:
is there any documentation to prove that taking steriods will make you sterile?
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are you kidding? thats sort of fundamental to how they work. TRT is being researched as male birth control. Any anabolic dose of exogenous hormones will result in suppression, to some degree, of FSH, which is what makes sperm. 100% effective? no, but it makes conception a lot less likely.
 
aspire210 said:
are you kidding? thats sort of fundamental to how they work. TRT is being researched as male birth control. Any anabolic dose of exogenous hormones will result in suppression, to some degree, of FSH, which is what makes sperm. 100% effective? no, but it makes conception a lot less likely.
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MENT is being researched as a male birth control....I doubt many TRT protocols include MENT.

Regardless new things are popping up everyday in male fertility issues. There is good info in this thread:

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I cant remember who the clinicals are going through, but test is being researched as a male birth control. So you can look that up.

Adams
 
DAdams91982 said:
I cant remember who the clinicals are going through, but test is being researched as a male birth control. So you can look that up.

Adams
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I'll have to. That sounds extremely sketchy though. Any kid could go into the doc and say they are fvckin like a bunny rabbit and need prescribed birth control (test please!).

Not to mention its VERY common for heavy cyclers to get their ladies prego on cycle.

More inconclusive discussion:

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Royd The Noyd said:
I'll have to. That sounds extremely sketchy though. Any kid could go into the doc and say they are fvckin like a bunny rabbit and need prescribed birth control (test please!).

Not to mention its VERY common for heavy cyclers to get their ladies prego on cycle.

More inconclusive discussion:

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Yeah... why it is in trials. Trying to find a constitutint that suppresses the body to just halt spermatogenesis. This is only the first step, extracting components and hormone markers is what will come next.

I think the final product will be far from a test regimine. And if so, then the patient would be reviewed, and test levels reviewed, then the dose would essential to keep him in his normalized test range, but would still shut down the individual. I dont think they will hand over vials to a teenager, it would be doctor admined I bet. Or an implant of some sort.

Adams
 
well, in terms of being able to 'reproduce' that's one thing.


Not having kids that are f'cked up from all the other chemicals being used is another. I've always wondered about steroid user's offspring having birth defects.
 
Probably more from some type of DNA alterations occuring. I believe there was something that was written about doping Olympic athletes having defected offspring.
 
Royd The Noyd said:
I'll have to. That sounds extremely sketchy though. Any kid could go into the doc and say they are fvckin like a bunny rabbit and need prescribed birth control (test please!).
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it is being done. I remember one clinical trial showing odd skews based on race. Something like 90% of Asian Americans were clinically sterile, but only 60% of Caucasian's. I forget the dose, but its still being played with. Also, I doubt that it will be such an abnormal dose that you will get much bigger off of it. The link you provided even showed some trials using the Plan B (levonorgestral) drug and test (as an androgen replacement) to cause suppression of spermogenesis.
 
Male birth control, FTW!

If only I could somehow talk my doc into letting me pin 1.5g of Test EW as a birth control method...ahhhhh...
 
aspire210 said:
it is being done. I remember one clinical trial showing odd skews based on race. Something like 90% of Asian Americans were clinically sterile, but only 60% of Caucasian's. I forget the dose, but its still being played with. Also, I doubt that it will be such an abnormal dose that you will get much bigger off of it. The link you provided even showed some trials using the Plan B (levonorgestral) drug and test (as an androgen replacement) to cause suppression of spermogenesis.
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Yes it seems as thought it will have to be some combination of drugs. And like dadams said an implant or doc admined procedure.

Regardless I still see healthy children conceived from heavy cyclers all the time (I dont literally see this happening :D). So it makes me wonder.
 
ReaperX said:
Probably more from some type of DNA alterations occuring. I believe there was something that was written about doping Olympic athletes having defected offspring.
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Wow, what an ignorant statement. Birth defects from certain substances are known throughout history, the most serious of which was due to thalidomide, prescribed to pregnant women to help them sleep. These drugs have nothing to do with DNA alteration. Birth defects are either congenital (genetic), caused by toxins present in the mother during gestation, or caused by some outside trauma.

Steroids will not alter your DNA, no way, no how. If the mother is on steroids, there may be an issue, but not with the father. Testosterone and its derivatives will never be marketed for birth control because it is simply ineffective. Sperm count may decrease, but not to the point of sterility. Many pro-bodybuilders have had children during their competitive years, many on as much as 5g/week of various hormones.
 
Few things about this article.
(1) Their underlying premise is that steroids caused birth defects, but they never mentioned what other drugs these athletes from the 70's-80's were taking (and of course, they only mention East German athletes)

(2) They do not distinguish between sexes. Yes, hormone use by a woman while in gestation will impact the fetus - this is uncontroverted. But they never specify anything.

(3) They never mention anything about DNA alteration due to steroids. Indeed the premise of the entire article appears to state that steroids cause birth defects if used in gestation. This is well known.

Stillbirth and miscarriage higher - well its higher in athletes anyways due to lower estrogen level (yes, even the natural ones). 25% have allergies and asthma, I can't imagine the rest of the population is much lower. Depression and psychiatric issues - wow sounds like normal kids to me - bonus, they live in a formerly communist country with a collapsing economy.

Sorry, but I'm not buying what this guy's saying.
 
In brief, with test being used as a BC method..it has to be administered precisely. Male test production has a monthly cycle not unlike female hormone production. It is the increase and subsequent decrease in test that helps to trigger spermatogensis. What the BC method attempts to do is to keep your test levels at the higher steady state with no decrease to signal spermatogenesis.

Due to the fairly precise administration times and bloodwork monitoring that has to be done with test BC, it's extremely unlikely that the average user on the street would achieve the same results and, as we have seen in this community, numerous users of AAS have gotten their significant others pregnant while on or even during PCT..self included. Most of the other "reproductive impacts" that occur due to AAS use/abuse are reversible.
 
bioman said:
In brief, with test being used as a BC method..it has to be administered precisely. Male test production has a monthly cycle not unlike female hormone production. It is the increase and subsequent decrease in test that helps to trigger spermatogensis. What the BC method attempts to do is to keep your test levels at the higher steady state with no decrease to signal spermatogenesis.

Due to the fairly precise administration times and bloodwork monitoring that has to be done with test BC, it's extremely unlikely that the average user on the street would achieve the same results and, as we have seen in this community, numerous users of AAS have gotten their significant others pregnant while on or even during PCT..self included. Most of the other "reproductive impacts" that occur due to AAS use/abuse are reversible.
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Good post. I have a friend that got his wife prego twice while on a Test cycle.
 
I ran a 10 week cycle of test and deca and started sleeping with this girl. Since she said she was on birth control and I trusted her (I was young and naive) I never wrapped it up. I broke up with her a month later and she started dating a new guy who ended up getting her pregnant because she apparently lied about the birth control and they have a kid now.

A month after that I found myself 15 pounds lighter with no libido so I got my test, free test, prolactin, LH, and FSH levels checked and they were all out of wack so they diagnosed me with hypogonadism and set me up for permanent TRT (testosterone replacement therapy). I eventually wanted kids though, so I decided to improv and run some clomid and small doses of propionate to stimulate test levels without telling the doc. Went to get more blood work done twice and all my levels were back to normal so I didn't need TRT anymore. Doctor said he's never seen anything like it before. Been fertile ever since.

Morals of the story:
A - Test may be an effective method of male birth control,
B - Never completely trust women (or anything else that bleeds for a week and doesn't die, for that matter) and
C - The AM forum is ahead of modern medicine and we are indirectly saving each others' lives.
 
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