Legal Question

warnerve

Well-known member
Hey guys, just had a question for the lawyers here and anyone familiar with law. Here's the story:

About two weeks ago, my car died and AAA towed it to the nearest Auto Shop. They looked at it and determined that the engine was no good anymore. I told them I would speak with my dad and see what we would do. At this point, I asked them if I needed to have my vehicle towed or anything, and was told it was not a problem, I could leave it there. I decided shortly thereafter I would sell the rest of the car on Craigslist. I was in contact with the guy who runs the shop a few times, and each time asked him if having my car there was a problem, etc. and he continuously said it was fine. I found someone to buy the car this past monday, and he said he would be able to pick up the vehicle this friday (tomorrow). The head mechanic at the shop called me on Wednesday (yesterday, april 30th) and was told that I was being charged $45 a day storage since the 21st. THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME I WAS TOLD THIS AND I WASN'T GIVEN ANY PAPERWORK THAT SAID THIS. I have spoken to the mechanic 3 times before I was informed of this, and the manager of the whole store (it's a combo gas station/auto shop) twice as well. Am I required to pay them the whole sum? For what it's worth, my initial fee for him checking the car was $68. They now plan on charging me $618 on Friday. Is this legal, and is there anything I can do?

Cliffs: they didn't tell me about storage fees til it was there for 10 days
 
Did you sign anything? Storage fees should have been spelled out on the work order.
 
Get a lawyer, will prolly cost ~$300 bucks but it's much better than 618.
 
If you have the keys and its just on the parking lot Go late at night with a tow truck and take it to the guy who wants to buy it. If the owner calls you about it tell him to produce the paper that you signed saying you would pay him anything other than the work order, same thing if the cops show up that night. As long as you can prove ownership theres nothing he can do.
 
sweet, thanks guys. i gotta double check my paperwork, I don't think i ever got a work order, the guy at the shop itself wasn't there when it was towed there, only the guy that runs the gas station. i am pretty sure i haven't signed anything there yet. if i need to handle it legally I can, my girlfriends dad is a lawyer, I spoke to him about this briefly but he was at a conference so I figured I would get more info here.
 
Unless you signed something, or otherwise engaged in a "proper verbal contract" (usually has to be recorded or independently witnessed to hold up), they can't charge you (unless it is in huge letters on the main sign or something I'm guessing).

MB
 
Unfortunately it doesn't have to be in huge letters, at least not in Massachusetts.

Lot of law rests on what a normal person would consider "reasonable."

If there is a small sign, in a place that a "reasonable" customer would be expected to see it (even a 3x5" index card taped to the front door...I've seen it with my own eyes...at least in Massachusetts) during the course of conducting normal business there, then they can claim they notified you.

Don't go TELLING them this because next thing you know a weathered-looking sign will appear somewhere and they will claim it was always there (even though they made it as soon as you mentioned it)!
 
yeah, that's what I figured methusaleh, I haven't told them I don't intend to pay it. I never signed a work order, he just quoted me $68 over the phone for looking at it, then called 10 days later to inform me he was charging me $45 a day all along. it had never been mentioned previously, nor was it on any paperwork
 
ManBeast said:
Unless you signed something, or otherwise engaged in a "proper verbal contract" (usually has to be recorded or independently witnessed to hold up), they can't charge you (unless it is in huge letters on the main sign or something I'm guessing).

MB
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this is true... however.. it depends on the fact that the reasonable person might assume that there was a holding charge.

It is the responsibility of the business to explain all charges and fee's, again, unless theres a huge sign that you cannot miss.

my gf is in law school and she points things out like this to me all of the time... such as when you valet your car.. usualyl the ticket says that they dont have any responsibility for damage or theft on the BACK of the ticket. This will not hold up in court unless th valet driver brings it to your attention when he hands you the ticket.

Same goes here, you can perceive the "no problem [to hold your car]" as meanign there was no cost. If the owner never brought his rates to your attention, he cannot charge you at a later date.

All this will probably take is a letter from a lawyer.. dont discuss it with the owner at all.
 
what if the company says they went over it, but don't have documentation and the other person says they didn't ?

Like one person's word vs. another but no documentation ? Do they just default at that point ?
 
ReaperX said:
what if the company says they went over it, but don't have documentation and the other person says they didn't ?

Like one person's word vs. another but no documentation ? Do they just default at that point ?
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IMO its the responsibility of the BILLING party to make all necessary documentation. we deal with it all the time at PAL. If i dont have proof you placed an order or agreed to a certain order (usually through an audio recording) then I have to work in your favor.

Other option would be to pay the guy his money on an American Express.,...... then charge it back. not the best route in the world.. but if he cannot provide proof that he explained the charge... he will 90% chance lose
 
ReaperX said:
That's what I thought. It was the billing party that had the burden of proof.
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Most every garage that I have ever been in has a sign that states storage fees along with the mechanic's hourly rates.

It sounds as though the tow truck guy dropped the car off after hours and everything else was done over the phone with the shop?

If yes, then they should have stated storage fees in that conversation or at least after the fact when you declined to have the engine replaced. They don't charge you 'storage fees' when they are 'working on' your car, but afterwards they do kick in.
 
ReaperX said:
What kind of stuff happens at PAL where customers try to pull a fast one ?
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We offer trials and monthly programs for paravol only if the customer agrees to it... they also have to agree to it twice during the phone call to make sure there is no confusion. some people claim they were never told the terms and never agreed to them, so we will play the call for them if they'd like. either way, we still offer them an option for a refund.
 
Your best bet is to contact an lawyer that specializes in civil issues. They will file a civil complaint against the garage and a magistrate or local judge will hear the issues. They willl ask you if you questioned the garage about storage rates. They will also question the garage owner as to why, when you asked if its okay to keep it there he didnt tell you, " Sure for 75 dollars a day" or whatever the rate of storage fees are. Make sure in the civil complaint your lawyer requests compensation for legal fees on your behalf. If the ruling is in your favor you wont have to pay a dime to the garage and the garage will now be responsible to pay for your legal fees. :cheers:
 
Xodus said:
Most every garage that I have ever been in has a sign that states storage fees along with the mechanic's hourly rates.

It sounds as though the tow truck guy dropped the car off after hours and everything else was done over the phone with the shop?

If yes, then they should have stated storage fees in that conversation or at least after the fact when you declined to have the engine replaced. They don't charge you 'storage fees' when they are 'working on' your car, but afterwards they do kick in.
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thanks a bunch to everyone that helped! yes, what you said was exactly right, I dropped it off after the shop was closed and i was quoted $68 for them checking the engine, and wasn't told anything else other than it was ok to keep the car there. It was literally there for 10 days before they called and mentioned the storage fee. I dunno what's gonna happen now, but the car isn't in their lot anymore :hammer:
 
update:

I moved the car out of their lot and up the street on saturday night. i woke up this morning to a voicemail from them saying they would call the police if I didn't call back within the hour. I am assuming this is a bluff, as all they have is my license plates, no paperwork or anything, and there is also no way they could prove I moved the car. My plan is to go in tomorrow and offer them the original 68 plus the 4 days of storage, and if they don't take that I guess it will end up in court. let me know what you guys think
 
Well played Trebek, off hand reference to celebrity jeopardy on SNL.

If the federales havent been at your door, this being tuesday, you should be in the clear. I would sell the car and avoid the garage. I mean if you were the cops this is how the phone call would go.

Garage: Hi some guy took his car from our parking lot!
Cops: So what?
Garage: Well he owes us money!
Cops: Can you prove it?
Garage: no..
Cops: Click.
 
futurepilot said:
Well played Trebek, off hand reference to celebrity jeopardy on SNL.

If the federales havent been at your door, this being tuesday, you should be in the clear. I would sell the car and avoid the garage. I mean if you were the cops this is how the phone call would go.

Garage: Hi some guy took his car from our parking lot!
Cops: So what?
Garage: Well he owes us money!
Cops: Can you prove it?
Garage: no..
Cops: Click.
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yeah, that's pretty much what I figured. They have my tags (which I could theoretically call and report stolen) and a set of keys (I have two more). My gf's dad is a lawyer and is gonna give me some advice in the morning, I will keep everyone updated :nutkick: hopefully these aholes get nothing from me!
 
warnerve said:
yeah, that's pretty much what I figured. They have my tags (which I could theoretically call and report stolen) and a set of keys (I have two more). My gf's dad is a lawyer and is gonna give me some advice in the morning, I will keep everyone updated :nutkick: hopefully these aholes get nothing from me!
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just whatever you do ... if the cops contact you DONT lie to them. it will only make you look worse. Explain that there was no notice of any payment. If they ask if YOU moved the car... just say "I DONT KNOW WHO DID IT"... even if its in your driveway...

Cop: oh so you brought the car home?
you: nope... woke up this morning and it was sitting here
cop: so you didnt drive/move it?
you: nope.. no idea who did

You have the 5th amendment right not to incriminate yourself. So dont do so if you are asked anything that might.

Ans regarding calling in the tags stolen... i guarantee they wrote down the cars VIN number ... all tow companies do this. calling in the tags stolen will just make you falsify a police report = bad idea
 
Palo Alto Labs said:
just whatever you do ... if the cops contact you DONT lie to them. it will only make you look worse. Explain that there was no notice of any payment. If they ask if YOU moved the car... just say "I DONT KNOW WHO DID IT"... even if its in your driveway...

Cop: oh so you brought the car home?
you: nope... woke up this morning and it was sitting here
cop: so you didnt drive/move it?
you: nope.. no idea who did

You have the 5th amendment right not to incriminate yourself. So dont do so if you are asked anything that might.
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this makes a lot of sense and is a good idea, except then wouldn't I be lying?
 
there is a HUGE difference between lying, and not incriminating yourself

they cannot prove you moved the car unless the shop has a camera, or they specifically saw you move it. your better off just saying nothing really. if asked... just say 'not sure'

some states might see what you did as a crime... definitely consult with the lawyer friend before anything
 
Palo Alto Labs said:
just whatever you do ... if the cops contact you DONT lie to them. it will only make you look worse. Explain that there was no notice of any payment. If they ask if YOU moved the car... just say "I DONT KNOW WHO DID IT"... even if its in your driveway...

Cop: oh so you brought the car home?
you: nope... woke up this morning and it was sitting here
cop: so you didnt drive/move it?
you: nope.. no idea who did

You have the 5th amendment right not to incriminate yourself. So dont do so if you are asked anything that might.

Ans regarding calling in the tags stolen... i guarantee they wrote down the cars VIN number ... all tow companies do this. calling in the tags stolen will just make you falsify a police report = bad idea
Click to expand...

good call on the Tags. thanks a bunch PAL, you've been a great help man!
 
Palo Alto Labs said:
there is a HUGE difference between lying, and not incriminating yourself

they cannot prove you moved the car unless the shop has a camera, or they specifically saw you move it. your better off just saying nothing really. if asked... just say 'not sure'

some states might see what you did as a crime... definitely consult with the lawyer friend before anything
Click to expand...

Great advice here dave! There certainly is a huge difference. When in doubt, play stupid. :D
 
I would say don't speak with the police at all untill you have spoken with your girlfriends father. See if he will be there for questioning if they want to question you. If the police call or show up at your door tell them you will say nothing to them untill you have spoken with a lawyer. They can't use this against you and you will always get questioned with more respect with a lawyer present. They know how the police will try and jam you up and they will take over and say that you are not answering anything that they think might incriminate you, this they also can't use against you.

Again never talk to the police at all without legal counsel whatsoever. They will try and make it look like they want to help get you out of whatever it is the garage did to screw you over, but it is there job to do one thing and thats build a case. They won't even contact you unless they have intent to try and get you with something.

DON'T SPEAK WITH THE POLICE.
 
final update:

I went in and told them I had spoken to a lawyer, etc. and told them I would not be paying the full price without it being settled in court. I offered to pay storage wednesday through saturday when I moved the car and they agreed. Ended up paying 248 instead of the 800some dollars they wanted to charge me. They didn't seem too thrilled to do it :whiner:, but in a way that made it more satisfying for me. Thanks a bunch to everyone for your input! My gf's dad has been busy nonstop lately so I only spoke briefly with him, so everyone's advice was a big help. And if anyone who works there happens to read this, here ya go:FUfinger::FUfinger:
 
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