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Ectomorph in Need of Help

DaveWalton

Member
My story is probably pretty standard. I'm about 6'2-6'3 with smaller frame. I've been working out for about 4 years now and REALLY want to get past the 200 mark (I currently weight about 187 in the morning...190 or so at night). I've just finished my first cycle of German Volume Training and with great success and am looking for a new workout program that will help add mass.

So, any ideas for a good MASS building workout?

Oh and as for diet...I get about 4000 calories per day with good clean food.

Supplements:
Bulgarian Tribulus
Zinc
6-OXO
Pro-whey
Carbo-loader
Multi

Any suggestions VERY much appreciated.
 
Why do you want to be 200. What advantage is being 200. I have weighted 265, 230, 217, 209 all steady for a good amount of time. I'm 218 now not fat but would like to get down to 190-195. I guess if you want to weight 200 then do it you can you dont need advice for that, YOUCAN DOIT. Good luck
 
DaveWalton said:
My story is probably pretty standard. I'm about 6'2-6'3 with smaller frame. I've been working out for about 4 years now and REALLY want to get past the 200 mark (I currently weight about 187 in the morning...190 or so at night). I've just finished my first cycle of German Volume Training and with great success and am looking for a new workout program that will help add mass. I'm 8 days into my first cycle of 4-AD (first prohormone use ever). I guess in retrospect I should have started taking it while beginning a new program...but too late now I guess.

So, any ideas for a good MASS building workout?

Oh and as for diet...I get about 4000 calories per day with good clean food.

Supplements:
ZMA
4-AD
Pro-whey
Carbo-loader
Multi

Any suggestions VERY much appreciated.
Click to expand...




hey man same situation with me i was stuck at 180-185 and i basically just had to eat more. i try to get 5000 calories a day and that was the magic ticket for me. i havnt heard to much on the PH your taking but when i ran my very first cycle (methyl masterdrol) i put on about 10-15 lbs and kept it so hopefully it sticks with you as well. im thinkin just eat more and switch up your routine...always keep your muscles guessing.
 
fasthumpman said:
hey man same situation with me i was stuck at 180-185 and i basically just had to eat more. i try to get 5000 calories a day and that was the magic ticket for me. i havnt heard to much on the PH your taking but when i ran my very first cycle (methyl masterdrol) i put on about 10-15 lbs and kept it so hopefully it sticks with you as well. im thinkin just eat more and switch up your routine...always keep your muscles guessing.
Click to expand...

Yeah definitely eating A LOT these days...it's like a chore. I guess that's what it takes though. I'm pretty happy I've decided to go with the second cycle of German Volume Training and I weighed in at 189 this morning (3 days ago I was 185 at that time) and 193 just now (3 days ago about 190 at this time)! Ultimately I've got a pretty solid diet (need more fruits and veggies though)...good supps...and a good program.

Workout today wasn't the greatest but I think I've got some more motivation now. One thing that helps me get through a tough workout is that I'm going into the gym for pain (helps me for some reason).

Anyways good luck with your goals man!
 
tadpolar said:
Why do you want to be 200. What advantage is being 200. I have weighted 265, 230, 217, 209 all steady for a good amount of time. I'm 218 now not fat but would like to get down to 190-195. I guess if you want to weight 200 then do it you can you dont need advice for that, YOUCAN DOIT. Good luck
Click to expand...

Thanks for the support bro! I guess I've always wanted to be big...eats me up a lot. As for the 200 goal...well that's just a short-term goal for now...my main goal is to bulk up and get big (very broad goal I suppose but I want to get there before focusing on other smallers goals).
 
Do alot of compound movments. Get away from the machines, and cables. Legs- squat, Front squats, SLDL. Chest- Bench press, Incline Benchpress, Dips. Shoulders- Military press, up right rows. Back- Deadlifts, Rows, Chin ups. Triceps- CG Bench press, Skull Crushers, DB Over head extensions. Biceps- BB Curls, underhand pull ups. That is what you need to be doing.
 
MEH89 said:
Do alot of compound movments. Get away from the machines, and cables. Legs- squat, Front squats, SLDL. Chest- Bench press, Incline Benchpress, Dips. Shoulders- Military press, up right rows. Back- Deadlifts, Rows, Chin ups. Triceps- CG Bench press, Skull Crushers, DB Over head extensions. Biceps- BB Curls, underhand pull ups. That is what you need to be doing.
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Thanks for the advice. The program I'm currently using is all about compound movements. First time doing bent-knee deadlifts...pretty brutal.
 
Look into breathing squats. Very intense program if you can stay true to yourself and really give it your all.
 
eat eat EAT EAT EAT, lift compound HEAVY EAT EAT, REST REST train 3 times only and EAT EAT EAT EAT cleeeaaannnnnnnnnnnnnn
 
DaveWalton said:
Thanks for the support bro! I guess I've always wanted to be big...eats me up a lot. As for the 200 goal...well that's just a short-term goal for now...my main goal is to bulk up and get big (very broad goal I suppose but I want to get there before focusing on other smallers goals).
Click to expand...

I understand. I felt that way when I was a little younger. Now I see strength and muscle on a whole different level more into it being functional strength and developing the right muscles to promote this function. Even if these muscles aren't the muscles you see on bodybuilders. And if I have to scarifice a little bit of weight to hone my skills to the best of my ability then so be it. But good luck. Get really sick, give it all you got.
 
tadpolar said:
I understand. I felt that way when I was a little younger. Now I see strength and muscle on a whole different level more into it being functional strength and developing the right muscles to promote this function. Even if these muscles aren't the muscles you see on bodybuilders. And if I have to scarifice a little bit of weight to hone my skills to the best of my ability then so be it. But good luck. Get really sick, give it all you got.
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I'm the same way. I always wanted to be 185lbs, not a big goal for most but my metabolism is seriously extremely high. It's only now slowing down as I near 30 but I feel comfortable now at 170lb and realize that being bigger isnt going to help much when I'm out skiing, rock climbing, white water rafting, and mountain biking. Those are the things I'd rather be doing then lifting weights. Now I work on functional strength and just being decently strong for my size. Overall health is a lot more important than any size. Oh to be 10 years younger and know what I know...
 
if your not gaining, look at your diet again. This is the tried and true method to keep your gains going... always re-evaluate what you are eating, a little change here and there can make a huge difference.
 
I used to want to be 200lbs (I'm 6'). Well I got there eventually, the wrong way tho...

Good luck :)
 
tattoopierced1: definitely am eating a LOT. 6 solid meals a day + supplements (i.e. prowhey and carboload). Very time consuming! GVT is going well so far though...loving it.

MoTiV: Yeah I think when I get to that point (or a bit higher) I will focus on other goals like strength and such. I guess the way I see it is I love getting bigger and seeing the results in the mirror...seeing the hard work pay off.

tadpolar: Functional strength is great. I suppose I'm not focusing on that a lot right now because of my goal to get big and because I'm not playing any sports ATM. I could get my cardio up for reserves but I'm not even doing anything with them this summer so meh.
 
Yes it is very time consuming, trust me I work , go to university, have to maintain a girlfriend, need to do sh!t around the house so eating 6 meals a day is TOUGH but that's what makes us different from everyone else, it's to reach your goals so keep doing it.
 
AlexParty said:
Yes it is very time consuming, trust me I work , go to university, have to maintain a girlfriend, need to do sh!t around the house so eating 6 meals a day is TOUGH but that's what makes us different from everyone else, it's to reach your goals so keep doing it.
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True enough and I'm in the exact same situation lol. Gotta get used to juggling gf, school, work, and cooking and eating all the time. You are right though it is worth it...good motivation btw.

Do you cook all your meals at night? That's what I try to do to save time.
 
DaveWalton said:
True enough and I'm in the exact same situation lol. Gotta get used to juggling gf, school, work, and cooking and eating all the time. You are right though it is worth it...good motivation btw.

Do you cook all your meals at night? That's what I try to do to save time.
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the only thing I cook to make a bulk of is brown rice. Best way to get good complex carbs and fibers. You can make enough to last you a week and when you microwave it it tastes good. Everything else I cook on the spot because it takes like ass if I cook it before and put it in the fridge. I have tons of low fat cottage cheese, half a cup is 30g of slow protein, have that with a whole grain bagel which is 40g of carbs. I put low fat cream cheese on it for taste. i down the cottage cheese with water... I can go on for fast efficient dieting but most people here like the gourmet dinners with meat pastas and grilled steak. I ain't got time so I eat not to enjoy but for the body. When you get into the routine it'll be second nature.
 
DaveWalton said:
My story is probably pretty standard. I'm about 6'2-6'3 with smaller frame. I've been working out for about 4 years now and REALLY want to get past the 200 mark (I currently weight about 187 in the morning...190 or so at night). I've just finished my first cycle of German Volume Training and with great success and am looking for a new workout program that will help add mass. I'm 8 days into my first cycle of 4-AD (first prohormone use ever). I guess in retrospect I should have started taking it while beginning a new program...but too late now I guess.

So, any ideas for a good MASS building workout?

Oh and as for diet...I get about 4000 calories per day with good clean food.

Supplements:
ZMA
4-AD
Pro-whey
Carbo-loader
Multi

Any suggestions VERY much appreciated.
Click to expand...
Sometimes the best idea for ectomorphs is to keep the resistance training sessions shorter, simple (basic/compound movements), and more intense. That gives you more less time to shift to a catabolic state and more of a chance to grow, recover, and hit it again.
 
AlexParty said:
the only thing I cook to make a bulk of is brown rice. Best way to get good complex carbs and fibers. You can make enough to last you a week and when you microwave it it tastes good. Everything else I cook on the spot because it takes like ass if I cook it before and put it in the fridge. I have tons of low fat cottage cheese, half a cup is 30g of slow protein, have that with a whole grain bagel which is 40g of carbs. I put low fat cream cheese on it for taste. i down the cottage cheese with water... I can go on for fast efficient dieting but most people here like the gourmet dinners with meat pastas and grilled steak. I ain't got time so I eat not to enjoy but for the body. When you get into the routine it'll be second nature.
Click to expand...

cottage cheese sounds like a great idea...I am getting sick of chicken breasts!
 
DaveWalton said:
cottage cheese sounds like a great idea...I am getting sick of chicken breasts!
Click to expand...

Ya chicken breasts only tastes good in restaurants. When I cook it I do it once a day and some days I don't even have it, really fed up with it. Cottage cheese you can down with your water like a shot so it doesn't taste that bad. Take a tablespoon of cottage cheese in your mouth, drink some water, mix it a bit and swallow. Don't bit or chew the cottage cheese because it's gross.

I just did that right now and gonna head off to the gym. If you want more diet ideas let me know and it will be a lot easier for you to reach your goals because lets face it, 2-3 meals every hour is a ***** so might as well find an easy way.
 
AlexParty said:
Ya chicken breasts only tastes good in restaurants. When I cook it I do it once a day and some days I don't even have it, really fed up with it. Cottage cheese you can down with your water like a shot so it doesn't taste that bad. Take a tablespoon of cottage cheese in your mouth, drink some water, mix it a bit and swallow. Don't bit or chew the cottage cheese because it's gross.

I just did that right now and gonna head off to the gym. If you want more diet ideas let me know and it will be a lot easier for you to reach your goals because lets face it, 2-3 meals every hour is a ***** so might as well find an easy way.
Click to expand...

Yeah going to invest in some cottage cheese tomorrow. Any other ideas for bulking up protein-rich foods that are relatively easy to prepare?

Right now my main protein intake consists of:

- A LOT of chicken
- whey powder
- some tuna
- lots of milk
- bit of beef
 
DaveWalton said:
Yeah going to invest in some cottage cheese tomorrow. Any other ideas for bulking up protein-rich foods that are relatively easy to prepare?

Right now my main protein intake consists of:

- A LOT of chicken
- whey powder
- some tuna
- lots of milk
- bit of beef
Click to expand...

Replace a lot of chicken with maybe one chicken a day if you're fed up like me. I buy this frozen chicken breast, it's grilled or something? Really thin but tastes 70% better than if you buy the breast all soft.

Tunas good, get skim milk, not regular. Get:

Eggs
Turkey slices (3 slices is 12 g of protein)
Fillet Fish(they come frozen, you can have 2 of them as your last meal, great protein)

Carbs:

Oats
Brown Rice
Wheat Bagels with cream cheese(low fat)
Wheat bread(can make turkey sandwiches and just add a protein shake with flax oil)

Etc... hope this helps. It's what I am doing and works. It's a clean bulk. I'm sure you have your diet down and calorie intake. This is just food ideas to help you out.
 
Cooking fish right now lol. And yeah, I get the frozen chicken breasts. I bought some cottage cheese today...tastes pretty ****** nasty but I downed it with water like you suggested...will take some getting used to I guess. Brutal leg day...German Volume Training is great so far.

What program are you on?
 
just get everything out of your moms cupboard chickpeas, blackbeans, corn well thats what i found mix it all up and eat it.
 
DaveWalton said:
Cooking fish right now lol. And yeah, I get the frozen chicken breasts. I bought some cottage cheese today...tastes pretty ****** nasty but I downed it with water like you suggested...will take some getting used to I guess. Brutal leg day...German Volume Training is great so far.

What program are you on?
Click to expand...

I'm an ecto like you so I don't train as much. I train 3 times a week, I do 4 exercises with reps from 4-8, heavy weights, compound. If I'm taking something then I'll do 4 times a week. Ectos need to train 3x's as much as a meso to gain muscle but with our skinny frame when you got tons of muscle covering it it's the coolest looking thing assuming you have low body fat. My wrists are so small but when you go higher my arm gets bigger and I love that. Took me a long time to build some mass but I was on and off of programs. I'd do it for 1 month then school got crazy or girlfriend complained. I started a few months ago, got all my strength and gains back quickly but been consistent since, haven't missed a meal yet. I read about German volume, I don't know if you need that being an ecto. What does it consist of?

Yeah the cottage cheese thing gets use to but it's probably the best meal you can have, it's easy to down(again when you get use to it). I'm telling you you'll love it because it's quick an efficient, just don't bite on the cheese and down it with the water, mix it in the mouth until it becomes soft and chug it down. I cup is good enough.

Another important thing, don't expect gains right away. If you just started expect them in 2 to 3 months to really show, 5-6 months to see drastic changes assuming you're consistent and jump over plateaus.
 
AlexParty said:
I'm an ecto like you so I don't train as much. I train 3 times a week, I do 4 exercises with reps from 4-8, heavy weights, compound. If I'm taking something then I'll do 4 times a week. Ectos need to train 3x's as much as a meso to gain muscle but with our skinny frame when you got tons of muscle covering it it's the coolest looking thing assuming you have low body fat. My wrists are so small but when you go higher my arm gets bigger and I love that. Took me a long time to build some mass but I was on and off of programs. I'd do it for 1 month then school got crazy or girlfriend complained. I started a few months ago, got all my strength and gains back quickly but been consistent since, haven't missed a meal yet. I read about German volume, I don't know if you need that being an ecto. What does it consist of?

Yeah the cottage cheese thing gets use to but it's probably the best meal you can have, it's easy to down(again when you get use to it). I'm telling you you'll love it because it's quick an efficient, just don't bite on the cheese and down it with the water, mix it in the mouth until it becomes soft and chug it down. I cup is good enough.

Another important thing, don't expect gains right away. If you just started expect them in 2 to 3 months to really show, 5-6 months to see drastic changes assuming you're consistent and jump over plateaus.
Click to expand...

To be honest I started working out 4 years ago. But I think only now am I really starting to do it properly. All in all, I do love being an ectomorph because while you do have to eat to the point that it's a chore, you are pretty much always toned when you put on the muscle (at least from personal experience...maybe I'm way off).

I agree with the seeing results comment. It takes a lot of patience.

As for German Volume Training...well there's a great article on this site by Charles Polliquin. It basically consists of compound movements (good for ecto like you said) and lots of volume. The beginners cycle is 10x10 reps for two main exercises and 2 supplementary exercises. So say for chest and back day you could do:

10 x 10 Dumbbell Incline press
10 x 10 wide grip chin ups (I can't do 10 of these with the tempo GVT calls for so I sub bent-over rows).
then 3 x 10 flat bench dumbbell flies
and 3 x 10 one arm db rows

After that you switch to the intermediate level at 10 x 6 with the same idea of one main exercise per body part you're working out and compound movements. There's also GVT for the advanced trainee. Anyways, the article explains it much better than me it's in the workout section of the site.

Personally, I've gained 11 pounds in the last month using GVT. Eating has improved a bit so that's a possible confound, but ultimately GVT has been very effective for me. It's really hard though and not much fun (especially leg days)...very sore today.

I'd def. recommend it!
 
DaveWalton said:
To be honest I started working out 4 years ago. But I think only now am I really starting to do it properly. All in all, I do love being an ectomorph because while you do have to eat to the point that it's a chore, you are pretty much always toned when you put on the muscle (at least from personal experience...maybe I'm way off).

I agree with the seeing results comment. It takes a lot of patience.

As for German Volume Training...well there's a great article on this site by Charles Polliquin. It basically consists of compound movements (good for ecto like you said) and lots of volume. The beginners cycle is 10x10 reps for two main exercises and 2 supplementary exercises. So say for chest and back day you could do:

10 x 10 Dumbbell Incline press
10 x 10 wide grip chin ups (I can't do 10 of these with the tempo GVT calls for so I sub bent-over rows).
then 3 x 10 flat bench dumbbell flies
and 3 x 10 one arm db rows

After that you switch to the intermediate level at 10 x 6 with the same idea of one main exercise per body part you're working out and compound movements. There's also GVT for the advanced trainee. Anyways, the article explains it much better than me it's in the workout section of the site.

Personally, I've gained 11 pounds in the last month using GVT. Eating has improved a bit so that's a possible confound, but ultimately GVT has been very effective for me. It's really hard though and not much fun (especially leg days)...very sore today.

I'd def. recommend it!
Click to expand...

I will definately look into thanks man. I read an article on it before and dobuted it. How long do you last in the gym?
 
AlexParty said:
I will definately look into thanks man. I read an article on it before and dobuted it. How long do you last in the gym?
Click to expand...

Generally about 1 hour...no more than that. If you think about it, you only have 1 minute between sets (unless you do supersets in which case 90 seconds)...so with the first 2 main exercises (10 x 10) that takes 40 minutes (with a 402 tempo) and the last 2 supplementary exercises should take maybe 10 minutes. Hey I guess I just realized I need to shorten my rest period between exercises...after 45 minutes cortisol levels start to rise anyways.

But yeah read up on it and follow it to a T if you do it.
 
DaveWalton said:
Hey I guess I just realized I need to shorten my rest period between exercises...after 45 minutes cortisol levels start to rise anyways.

Speaking of cortisol, a lot of hard gaining ectos have a potential cortisol problem. This is the stuff that eats your hard earned muscle away every time you get a little keyed up. I experimented with a cortisol modulator (Retain II) and grabbed a quick 10 pounds last year. I've also been living on the Supercissus which is another great supp that seems to modulate cortisol levels and promote healing. You're training sounds spot on though, that's why I'm thinking about a little bump in the endocrine function so you might get better gains. I'm a textbook ecto and an old fart (47) so I'll take all the help I can get these days. Best of luck to you little brother!
Click to expand...
 
jpk said:
DaveWalton said:
Hey I guess I just realized I need to shorten my rest period between exercises...after 45 minutes cortisol levels start to rise anyways.

Speaking of cortisol, a lot of hard gaining ectos have a potential cortisol problem. This is the stuff that eats your hard earned muscle away every time you get a little keyed up. I experimented with a cortisol modulator (Retain II) and grabbed a quick 10 pounds last year. I've also been living on the Supercissus which is another great supp that seems to modulate cortisol levels and promote healing. You're training sounds spot on though, that's why I'm thinking about a little bump in the endocrine function so you might get better gains. I'm a textbook ecto and an old fart (47) so I'll take all the help I can get these days. Best of luck to you little brother!
Click to expand...

Why is your stomach so big?
Click to expand...
 
jpk said:
DaveWalton said:
Hey I guess I just realized I need to shorten my rest period between exercises...after 45 minutes cortisol levels start to rise anyways.

Speaking of cortisol, a lot of hard gaining ectos have a potential cortisol problem. This is the stuff that eats your hard earned muscle away every time you get a little keyed up. I experimented with a cortisol modulator (Retain II) and grabbed a quick 10 pounds last year. I've also been living on the Supercissus which is another great supp that seems to modulate cortisol levels and promote healing. You're training sounds spot on though, that's why I'm thinking about a little bump in the endocrine function so you might get better gains. I'm a textbook ecto and an old fart (47) so I'll take all the help I can get these days. Best of luck to you little brother!
Click to expand...

Thank you! I prefer to leave my endocrine system alone until it's fully developed (aka when I'm at least 21) though. Maybe I'll give it a shot in a couple years! Thanks for the support and good luck to you as well!

P.S. AlexParty I am up to 195 at night...gonna have to start eating more though don't want to stop gaining. I figure I'll add another 150 calories per meal.
Click to expand...
 
AlexParty said:
the only thing I cook to make a bulk of is brown rice. Best way to get good complex carbs and fibers. You can make enough to last you a week and when you microwave it it tastes good. Everything else I cook on the spot because it takes like ass if I cook it before and put it in the fridge. I have tons of low fat cottage cheese, half a cup is 30g of slow protein, have that with a whole grain bagel which is 40g of carbs. I put low fat cream cheese on it for taste. i down the cottage cheese with water... I can go on for fast efficient dieting but most people here like the gourmet dinners with meat pastas and grilled steak. I ain't got time so I eat not to enjoy but for the body. When you get into the routine it'll be second nature.
Click to expand...
A few ideas here. Being a single parent of three teenagers with a 60+hr work week I have had to find anyway possible to save time. Here are some of my recomendations:
1.Buy a George Foreman grill - I cook just about everything in this. If you hear people say it dries the food out that is because they are cooking it to long. Basic times, beef 4 minutes, chicken/pork 5 minutes, fish 7 minutes.
2. Buy a vacuum sealer and cook in bulk - I buy the large bags of chicken breast, orange roughie, and talapia, bulk packs of steaks and pork chops. On Sunday when I do my shopping I cook it all and seal it in the vacuum bags and throw it in the freezer. Doing it in individual portions makes it easy to thaw out what I need when I need it.
3. Use marinades - There is a McCormick Grill Mates series of marinades with about 8 different flavors. I use all of them and switch often so I do not get burnt out.
4. Buy a coffee grinder to grind whole oats for shakes - I grind the oats with a coffe grinder and put them in a canister. When I need a meal on the go I just through a couple of scoops of whey and a couple scoops of oats in a shaker and I am on my way.

Hope these help!
 
DaveWalton said:
My story is probably pretty standard. I'm about 6'2-6'3 with smaller frame. I've been working out for about 4 years now and REALLY want to get past the 200 mark (I currently weight about 187 in the morning...190 or so at night). I've just finished my first cycle of German Volume Training and with great success and am looking for a new workout program that will help add mass.

So, any ideas for a good MASS building workout?
Click to expand...
You might want to try alternating the GVT with one of the 5x5 programs. I have trouble gaining quality weight also but the 5x5 is where I really started making my best progress.
When I start stalling on my gains on the 5x5 I plan do 6 weeks of GVT and then return to the 5x5 for 6 weeks and keep alternating between the two. The thought is you get to vary the routine to prevent muscle memory and keep it from getting stagnant and boring plus you get to hit both types of hypertrophy. The 5x5 produces myofbrillar hypertrophy and leads to strength increases. The GVT will produce sarcoplasmic hypertrophy builds mass. (reference - Rippetoe&Kilgore - Practical Programming for Strength Training, Zatsiorsky - Science and Practice of Strength Training)
 
DaveWalton said:
jpk said:
Thank you! I prefer to leave my endocrine system alone until it's fully developed (aka when I'm at least 21) though. Maybe I'll give it a shot in a couple years! Thanks for the support and good luck to you as well!

P.S. AlexParty I am up to 195 at night...gonna have to start eating more though don't want to stop gaining. I figure I'll add another 150 calories per meal.
Click to expand...

Sounds great. Yup as soon as you gained a lot in one week add 15-200 cals to your meal. What I've done is bought a weight gainer and just added a few scoops a day thats all. I monitor my body fat and weight each week after doing this to see if I am increasing my fat.
Click to expand...
 
dawaro said:
A few ideas here. Being a single parent of three teenagers with a 60+hr work week I have had to find anyway possible to save time. Here are some of my recomendations:
1.Buy a George Foreman grill - I cook just about everything in this. If you hear people say it dries the food out that is because they are cooking it to long. Basic times, beef 4 minutes, chicken/pork 5 minutes, fish 7 minutes.
2. Buy a vacuum sealer and cook in bulk - I buy the large bags of chicken breast, orange roughie, and talapia, bulk packs of steaks and pork chops. On Sunday when I do my shopping I cook it all and seal it in the vacuum bags and throw it in the freezer. Doing it in individual portions makes it easy to thaw out what I need when I need it.
3. Use marinades - There is a McCormick Grill Mates series of marinades with about 8 different flavors. I use all of them and switch often so I do not get burnt out.
4. Buy a coffee grinder to grind whole oats for shakes - I grind the oats with a coffe grinder and put them in a canister. When I need a meal on the go I just through a couple of scoops of whey and a couple scoops of oats in a shaker and I am on my way.

Hope these help!
Click to expand...

#4 is awesome, that's a great idea!. Ya with your schedule I can see why time is a factor. Wow you have guts to be doing that and good for you. It's definitely hard but next time I think it's too much I will just compare my time to yours. Raising 3 teenagers... wow.
 
AlexParty said:
DaveWalton said:
What I've done is bought a weight gainer and just added a few scoops a day thats all. I monitor my body fat and weight each week after doing this to see if I am increasing my fat.
Click to expand...
You can replace the weight gainer with a cheaper method.
EasyEJL gave me this idea so I cant take the credit but Sam's Club sells 6lb bags of the EAS 100% Whey for $30, combine that with a couple of scoops of NP's Kwik Carb (or ground oats) and you have an instant weight gainer without all the sugars that are in the commercial ones. You can easily manipulate the calories further by using milk to mix it.
Click to expand...
 
dawaro said:
AlexParty said:
You can replace the weight gainer with a cheaper method.
EasyEJL gave me this idea so I cant take the credit but Sam's Club sells 6lb bags of the EAS 100% Whey for $30, combine that with a couple of scoops of NP's Kwik Carb (or ground oats) and you have an instant weight gainer without all the sugars that are in the commercial ones. You can easily manipulate the calories further by using milk to mix it.
Click to expand...

That is good too, but extra work for me personally and then again I know it comes no where close to you but in my own ways it's just easier. University, basement renovations(yeah doing it myself), girlfriend, work, going to the gym etc... it's a hard life sometimes but well worth it. Remember never give up when it becomes tough, you lose everything you worked for. I did it 3 times and learned my lesson finally not to give up.
Click to expand...
 
dawaro said:
You might want to try alternating the GVT with one of the 5x5 programs. I have trouble gaining quality weight also but the 5x5 is where I really started making my best progress.
When I start stalling on my gains on the 5x5 I plan do 6 weeks of GVT and then return to the 5x5 for 6 weeks and keep alternating between the two. The thought is you get to vary the routine to prevent muscle memory and keep it from getting stagnant and boring plus you get to hit both types of hypertrophy. The 5x5 produces myofbrillar hypertrophy and leads to strength increases. The GVT will produce sarcoplasmic hypertrophy builds mass. (reference - Rippetoe&Kilgore - Practical Programming for Strength Training, Zatsiorsky - Science and Practice of Strength Training)
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Thanks for all the posts! Very informative and helpful and I will definitely use some of your food-related tips. Regarding the workout advice...I actually planned on switching to 5x5 after GVT but I got a little hesitant hearing that it was primarily for strength and not the best for gains. I think it will be time to switch from GVT soon enough, but workout recommendations other than 5x5? If not, are you sure 5x5 is good for mass?

AlexParty: Should I feel REALLY full at every meal now that I will be increasing my caloric intake?
 
DaveWalton said:
Thanks for all the posts! Very informative and helpful and I will definitely use some of your food-related tips. Regarding the workout advice...I actually planned on switching to 5x5 after GVT but I got a little hesitant hearing that it was primarily for strength and not the best for gains. I think it will be time to switch from GVT soon enough, but workout recommendations other than 5x5? If not, are you sure 5x5 is good for mass?

AlexParty: Should I feel REALLY full at every meal now that I will be increasing my caloric intake?
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Yeah it's completely normal, you body will get use to it. Even after a few months of changing my diet I feel full after every meal. Sometimes it's a pain in the ass to eat but I still do it. Sometimes I feel like taking a shake but I don't. I onyl take shakes as MRP's if I am stuck somewhere or at work etc... I really try to eat whole foods, but shakes wont hurt your gains, as long as you get protein in your system every 2-3 hrs you're good.

What ticks me off sometimes being an ecto is how hard we have to work, train eat. Most people you talk to have no idea what an ecto means or a meso. Meso's gain so easily. If I trained the way I did for 3 months as a meso I'd be Arnold man. I have several freinds who have the meso body type and they just eat 3 meals a day, train here and there and gain. But the downside to a meso is the fat gain and the ability to lose it, that's where the ecto has a HUGE advantage, we can lose fat in weeks and cut down 70% faster than a meso so I guess it balances. I remember having a girlfriend and I was doing everything an ecto has to do to gain muscle, eating every 2-3 hrs, train, sleep, take my supps and she says " you don't have to do all that"... some people just don't get it.
 
DaveWalton said:
Thanks for all the posts! Very informative and helpful and I will definitely use some of your food-related tips. Regarding the workout advice...I actually planned on switching to 5x5 after GVT but I got a little hesitant hearing that it was primarily for strength and not the best for gains. I think it will be time to switch from GVT soon enough, but workout recommendations other than 5x5? If not, are you sure 5x5 is good for mass?

AlexParty: Should I feel REALLY full at every meal now that I will be increasing my caloric intake?
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5x5 is actually considered to be the best comprimise between strength and mass. Very low reps, 1-3, are considered optimal for strength, 10-12 reps for growth, so 5 reps falls in between the two. For me the 5x5 becomes mentally taxing after several weeks and I am hoping the switch will recharge me mentally. Heavy weights 3 times a week (full body) just gets old for me. There are days when it is a mental fight to drag myself in the gym. I am fine once I get there but the whole way I am trying to talk myself into taking it easy that day.
 
dawaro said:
5x5 is actually considered to be the best comprimise between strength and mass. Very low reps, 1-3, are considered optimal for strength, 10-12 reps for growth, so 5 reps falls in between the two. For me the 5x5 becomes mentally taxing after several weeks and I am hoping the switch will recharge me mentally. Heavy weights 3 times a week (full body) just gets old for me. There are days when it is a mental fight to drag myself in the gym. I am fine once I get there but the whole way I am trying to talk myself into taking it easy that day.
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In that case you need to get some creatine with Arginine. I also take a supplement that gives me an insane pump so during the gym I am so motivated, concentrated and when I am finished my muscles feel so pumped that I can't wait to hit the gym again. I felt the EXACT same way as you before I tried creatine + pump formulation.
 
AlexParty said:
In that case you need to get some creatine with Arginine. I also take a supplement that gives me an insane pump so during the gym I am so motivated, concentrated and when I am finished my muscles feel so pumped that I can't wait to hit the gym again. I felt the EXACT same way as you before I tried creatine + pump formulation.
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For me once I get the first warm up done I have no issues with motivation. Being on a set progression for increasing weights each work out brings on a little anxiety I think. I am a little OCD and failure pisses me off and I think that is where the anxiety comes from, the fear of not making the reps. Right now almost all my lifts are at weekly PR's so for me it is pretty heavy weights. I think a change of pace would be nice for a little bit.
I might give the creatine a shot though, as long as it isnt NOxploed. That stuff is just ridicullously priced.
 
dawaro said:
For me once I get the first warm up done I have no issues with motivation. Being on a set progression for increasing weights each work out brings on a little anxiety I think. I am a little OCD and failure pisses me off and I think that is where the anxiety comes from, the fear of not making the reps. Right now almost all my lifts are at weekly Page Ranking's so for me it is pretty heavy weights. I think a change of pace would be nice for a little bit.
I might give the creatine a shot though, as long as it isnt NOxploed. That stuff is just ridicullously priced.
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Ya don't go with that. Go with V-12 turbo by San or even better what I am using no Xpand by Dymatize. Great stuff. Do not buy Horsepower by Ultimate Nutrition, stuff tastes like crap, that alone can end a diet.
 
Okay so this week will be the last bit of GVT. Last two days have been pretty lazy (terrible headache = no motivation) for eating so I'm getting back into it again.

I've looking into it a lot, but I can't seem to find anything satisfactory. I realize 5x5 may be beneficial...but to be honest I really don't enjoy it. Any suggestions for a good program to follow GVT (keeping in mind that my goal is to bulk to 220)?

Thanks guys.

Oh btw I finally switched to pork chops instead of chicken for a while...so sick of chicken.
 
Try doing 4 sets of pyramid.

Pork chops instead of chicken.... how are you liking that? Does it give the same protein profile?
 
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