Epistane toxicity

Anyone who says ,'I took x,y,z and I'm fine' has a useless argument unless they have pre/post bloodwork to show for it.
 
ReaperX said:
neo-


I'm not actually using scare tactics. I'm just referring to the science behind it. The only other documented medical case other than Superdrol that I can think of off the top of my head is Lipokinetix by Syntrax. Which ironically enough was also blamed for liver failure.

Let's be real here, how many members here actually get pre/post bloodwork after their cycles ? Maybe 10% ? That's probably at best rounding upwards. Most people just take their stuff, and supporting supplements and pray for the best.

Also too a very moot argument is methyls and alcohol.

Methylated compounds are metabolized via cytochrome P450 (CYP) 3A4-catalyzed reactions, and to a lesser extent hydroxylated compounds.

Alcohol is metabolized primarily by the CYP2E1 enzyme and NOT 3A4.

Ok, so now that we've established that, it is like comparing apples to oranges. Or draino for that matter. I'm not exactly sure where that has any relevance.


As far as Epistane, what standard is being held to say that it is a 'mild' substance ? Is it multiple bloodworks being done that is enough to draw a substantial statistical conclusion ? There needs to be some standard that it is being compared to. Or is this just another 'brotellegence' comment ?


Hm, your right, that is subjective.


I don't mind what people do, I enjoy hearing the horror stories.

I do believe, however, that it is very irresponsible and wreckless to only tell 'half the truth'.
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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ReaperX again.
 
So basically to sum this thread up:

1. Both sides agree that Epistane is mild, if no proof for either opinion please.

2. Superdrol is something you should really research and be careful with or not use at all. Some vote don't use, some vote use.

3. Both sides can show that many people have either A) run successful cycles with no adverse affects and B) have run cycles with very harsh affects and possible near death experiences

So all in all I think this thread is done don't you?
 
jpk said:
This compound keeps getting rave reviews on the boards here. My personal experience with Epistane was also fantastic. But, when we hear that Epistane has low liver toxicity, what is this based upon?

1. Actual studies
2. User reports including blood work
3. Sound pharmacologic principles

I'm really hoping to bait Neoborn or some of the IBE guys into jumping in here. What I'm looking for is some defendable reason that I can continue to use this product without excess worry about liver damage.
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Apparently none of the above.....This product is obviouly not well known, although I am trying it to see if it lives up to the hype.
 
I would say that Epistane is mild comparatively speaking in terms of sides, both from anecdotal evidence and personal
evidence with blood tests done. One always has to assume a certain amount of risks taking methylated Androgens but I think its worth it to me. Now in terms of gains, Epi has worked great for me and I think I will use it as my designer of choice from now on. It is simply a GREAT COMPOUND.
 
T-Bone said:
Are they rare?....Or are they just rarely reported????
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Idk.I would think if they were somewhat common,it would be all over the news warning people.You know like you always see how this and that will kill/harm you,or this or that might possibly,if you do it at the right moment,on the right day,at the right temp,you have a .000001% chance of getting a bruise!You know what i mean?When I watch the news i'm constantly looking over my back at what bad thing is fixing to happen.

I read about the mexican a while ago on one of these boards,now you.I would think people would be doing their campaigning stuff they do when their all against what someone else does if it wasn't extremely rare.But again I or no one else has any clue how many people haven't said anything.
 
I plan on getting bloodwork done as soon as I get back on my dad's health insurance (state insurance but not until the fall :sad:)...
 
maynehood171 said:
I plan on getting bloodwork done as soon as I get back on my dad's health insurance (state insurance but not until the fall :sad:)...
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Im self employed but I still have a boss :sad: If I want insurance I have to pay it out of my pocket :sad: This is how my taxes are,and I haven't paid then in two years :sad: Now i'm.......well.......:sad:
 
T-Bone said:
Are they rare?....Or are they just rarely reported????
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well considering how stupid america's youth has proven itself to be and the overzealous behavior of parent's of said youth to out the problem of steroids being given to their kids, I would guess the problem is rare. Kids think "well if 3 pills a day makes me gain 10lbs, 6 will make me gain 20lbs" and with that mentality, given the toxicity you seem to believe in, kids would be dropping like flies. Not to mention these horrid combinations of SD, PP, and Halo in a nice neat 50+mg package. Sorry you had such a bad reaction to SD. Did you not know this was a steroid of something? I'll assume you were intelligent enough to know it was. You made that choice knowing what it was, take some responsibility for your actions as well. Any drug you take without the supervision of a doctor, you are taking your life into your own hands. Not everyone reacts the same to drugs. You, and a few others had a bad reaction, your personal vendetta to save the world from SD is a lame at best.

ReaperX said:
Anyone who says ,'I took x,y,z and I'm fine' has a useless argument unless they have pre/post bloodwork to show for it.
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pull up the original blood work from when it was released years ago. It wasn't THAT bad.



The bottom line is that we are all taking risks when taking these types of products. From impure material, to untested drugs, to unknown reactions, we are taking risks. Don't like it, don't play.
 
aspire210 said:
well considering how stupid america's youth has proven itself to be and the overzealous behavior of parent's of said youth to out the problem of steroids being given to their kids, I would guess the problem is rare. Kids think "well if 3 pills a day makes me gain 10lbs, 6 will make me gain 20lbs" and with that mentality, given the toxicity you seem to believe in, kids would be dropping like flies. Not to mention these horrid combinations of SD, PP, and Halo in a nice neat 50+mg package. Sorry you had such a bad reaction to SD. Did you not know this was a steroid of something? I'll assume you were intelligent enough to know it was. You made that choice knowing what it was, take some responsibility for your actions as well. Any drug you take without the supervision of a doctor, you are taking your life into your own hands. Not everyone reacts the same to drugs. You, and a few others had a bad reaction, your personal vendetta to save the world from SD is a lame at best.



pull up the original blood work from when it was released years ago. It wasn't THAT bad.



The bottom line is that we are all taking risks when taking these types of products. From impure material, to untested drugs, to unknown reactions, we are taking risks. Don't like it, don't play.
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My point exactly!It would be all over the news.Just like when a pit bull atacks someone.Now they have a horrible rep cause of it.I own a three yr old pit and know/have met many.Not one of them showed signs of agression.They act like any other dog.So yes,liver failure from sd is rare.
 
I'm not actually arguing for anyone NOT to take them. However, it is wreckless and risky to use potent oral anabolics without some bloodwork. Despite 'i feel fine' testimonies, there is nothing to indicate things might 'not' be good.

I agree, if you don't want the risk, don't take it.


I could take Superdrol and not have any change in my lipid profiles at all. I could have massive health problems on the other hand. Anything is possible.

That is a chance that I don't think is justified, IMO which is why I choose not to take it.
 
SIDUDE said:
Apparently none of the above.....This product is obviouly not well known, although I am trying it to see if it lives up to the hype.
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Are you being serious lol?

As for the "I am trying to bait IBE people" comment, I am not sure why you would want to try and do this as if we are avoiding you. I have posted in this thread SEVERAL times and apparently you haven't read the entire thing. If you have a question just ask.
 
pantera101 said:
My point exactly!It would be all over the news.Just like when a pit bull atacks someone.Now they have a horrible rep cause of it.
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No, actually it would not necessarly be all over the news. Now you are resorting to assumed cause/effect analysis.

Anabolic Xtreme is not a major pharmaceutical company with millions of clients like Mereck and Eli Lilly are. There just isn't the same audience. Of course it isn't going to be plastered all over the news.

If they had a news report on Superdrol, a lot of people would be like 'WTF is that ?'

If they had a news report on Viagra then everyone would be tuned in and interested.


The media isn't going to make a priority covering something that only 20% of America really cares about. If they get bored or desperate they might, but other things take a priority so the media route is not applicable.
 
Once again, I am not familar with the terms such as 'That bad' or 'it is mild'.

What's the gold standard being held as to toxicity ? Are we referring to solely bloodwork values ?

So a 5 point increase in liver enzymes is 'ok' ?

A 10 point increase in liver enzymes is 'mild' ?

What are you basing these totally subjective comments off of ?

Or if you wind up like T-Bone in the hospital then it is 'harsh' and everything else is 'mild' ?



If you are going to set standards for toxicity, you need to impose restrictions for each level.



Honestly, there's just more respect involved if you guys admit that your 'analysis' of toxicity is nothing more than 'brotellegence' and 'bro-lore', because we both know that is what it is.



.....or 'Dude, I feel fine' testimonies.
 
ReaperX said:
No, actually it would not necessarly be all over the news. Now you are resorting to assumed cause/effect analysis.

Anabolic Xtreme is not a major pharmaceutical company with millions of clients like Mereck and Eli Lilly are. There just isn't the same audience. Of course it isn't going to be plastered all over the news.

If they had a news report on Superdrol, a lot of people would be like 'WTF is that ?'

If they had a news report on Viagra then everyone would be tuned in and interested.


The media isn't going to make a priority covering something that only 20% of America really cares about. If they get bored or desperate they might, but other things take a priority so the media route is not applicable.
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Trust me dude.When little johnny goes through what t-bone did.Then that Mom is talking to another,like little johny's friend's Mom,who had the same thing happen.They're going to start talking and making a big deal about this.Then learn how serious of a problem it is from others and "make a stand" to save the lives of others.Wheter it's on the internet,news,whatever.People would do something to get the word out if it was even close to somewhat of a common problem.Remember the cheese thing going on?You seriously think 20% of the pop takes that?No!But they talked about it because some kids were dying or comming close to dying.........
 
That would have been great press though if T-Bone went to the media about it and showed the bottle he was taking.

If he did go to the media about it, I bet there might have been a good chance that they aired it on the local news.....keyword: local, not national.
 
ReaperX said:
Once again, I am not familar with the terms such as 'That bad' or 'it is mild'.

What's the gold standard being held as to toxicity ? Are we referring to solely bloodwork values ?

So a 5 point increase in liver enzymes is 'ok' ?

A 10 point increase in liver enzymes is 'mild' ?

What are you basing these totally subjective comments off of ?

Or if you wind up like T-Bone in the hospital then it is 'harsh' and everything else is 'mild' ?



If you are going to set standards for toxicity, you need to impose restrictions for each level.



Honestly, there's just more respect involved if you guys admit that your 'analysis' of toxicity is nothing more than 'brotellegence' and 'bro-lore', because we both know that is what it is.



.....or 'Dude, I feel fine' testimonies.
Click to expand...

there is tons of blood work for SD on this site. quit being lazy and look it up if you are so curious. You waste more time whining about your opinions than doing actual research.
 
pantera101 said:
Trust me dude.When little johnny goes through what t-bone did.Then that Mom is talking to another,like little johny's friend's Mom,who had the same thing happen.They're going to start talking and making a big deal about this.Then learn how serious of a problem it is from others and "make a stand" to save the lives of others.Wheter it's on the internet,news,whatever.People would do something to get the word out if it was even close to somewhat of a common problem.Remember the cheese thing going on?You seriously think 20% of the pop takes that?No!But they talked about it because some kids were dying or comming close to dying.........
Click to expand...


To assume that Superdrol is fine because every single person who took it isn't dead is a moot assumption.


It dosen't (and shouldn't) take a large portion of adverse effects to warrent a recall. Last time I checked, the FDA sent a letter regarding it.
 
ReaperX said:
That would have been great press though if T-Bone went to the media about it and showed the bottle he was taking.

If he did go to the media about it, I bet there might have been a good chance that they aired it on the local news.....keyword: local, not national.
Click to expand...

If there was an epidemic of people dying from SD, i bet it would make national news. So far, i haven't seen it.
 
T-Bone said:
That is just not true, I proved it myself while I was in the hospital!. Also I am not the only one that ended up in the hospital after using Superdrol....Just search.
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I mentioned this in another thread. My late wife took 3 150mg ED for 3 days of WellButrin, had a seizure went into a coma and died within 18 days.

Does that indicate everyone will have this problem with WB, certainly not. But seizures is listed as one of the ' side effects '. Death isn't.

Elevated liver enzymes only indicate your liver is working and be glad that it is. Repeated stress, over the years can take its toll. Wellbutrin didn't kill my wife, alcohol did. Autopsy showed cirrhosis and that doesn't happen quickly.

In an otherwise healthy adult, this would never have happened. She was not healthy.

The moral being there may have been some other underlying cause of your reaction to SuperDrol causing you to end up in the hospital, I don't know.

Needless to say, the message should be brought to the attention of its users and only they can make the decision to take the risk.
 
ReaperX said:
To assume that Superdrol is fine because every single person who took it isn't dead is a moot assumption.


It dosen't (and shouldn't) take a large portion of adverse effects to warrent a recall. Last time I checked, the FDA sent a letter regarding it.
Click to expand...

...and the last time I knew the FDA sent that letter telling AX that Superdrol was a steroid and to stop producing it...not that it was killing people taking it...and wasn't it after the McGuire and Conseco hype of steroid use in baseball which the gov't did and still is cracking down on...?
 
ReaperX said:
That would have been great press though if T-Bone went to the media about it and showed the bottle he was taking.

If he did go to the media about it, I bet there might have been a good chance that they aired it on the local news.....keyword: local, not national.
Click to expand...

But after others started making thes same claims they would catch on and their would be anti sd commercials,news specials and all.Sd has been out for a while.My only debate on this whole thing is that liver failure or serious complications from sd has to be rare given that it's been out since whenever(?)We can start a poll asking how many had to go to the doctor due to serious complications that were caused by sd or others,and t-bone will be it on here.People warn about support supplements and all,but never watch out,you might get liver failure!
 
ReaperX said:
Once again, I am not familar with the terms such as 'That bad' or 'it is mild'.

What's the gold standard being held as to toxicity ? Are we referring to solely bloodwork values ?

So a 5 point increase in liver enzymes is 'ok' ?

A 10 point increase in liver enzymes is 'mild' ?

What are you basing these totally subjective comments off of ?

Or if you wind up like T-Bone in the hospital then it is 'harsh' and everything else is 'mild' ?



If you are going to set standards for toxicity, you need to impose restrictions for each level.



Honestly, there's just more respect involved if you guys admit that your 'analysis' of toxicity is nothing more than 'brotellegence' and 'bro-lore', because we both know that is what it is.



.....or 'Dude, I feel fine' testimonies.
Click to expand...

Aspire-


Re-read the post. Good to know you completely missed the point. What's the gold standard being used here ?

I'm obviously wasting my time looking at bloodwork if there isn't some kind of table I can use as reference as to what is 'mild' and what is 'harsh'.


Oh yeah that's right. There isn't any.

I keep hearing those terms, 'Dude, it is mild'. Hm, as opposed to what ? Not mild ? How am I supposed to know what 'mild' stands for ?
 
ReaperX said:
To assume that Superdrol is fine because every single person who took it isn't dead is a moot assumption.


It dosen't (and shouldn't) take a large portion of adverse effects to warrent a recall. Last time I checked, the FDA sent a letter regarding it.
Click to expand...

Idk about you,but not dead and not in the hospital or having serious side affects is considered fine to me.Others are fine with being skinny or overweight though,so different strokes for different folks.The letter was because they realised it was a steroid. and that they were going to be looking further into it.They all got scared and pulled them(what you going to do now?)and sold their rights to others.
 
ReaperX...is there an anti-steroid section in this forum you and T-bone can hang out in? Maybe recruit and form an elite posse advocating the idiocy of steroid users? :p
 
pantera101 said:
Idk about you,but not dead and not in the hospital or having serious side affects is considered fine to me.Others are fine with being skinny or overweight though,so different strokes for different folks.The letter was because they realised it was a steroid. and that they were going to be looking further into it.They all got scared and pulled them(what you going to do now?)and sold their rights to others.
Click to expand...

ok.
 
maynehood171 said:
ReaperX...is there an anti-steroid section in this forum you and T-bone can hang out in? Maybe recruit and form an elite posse advocating the idiocy of steroid users? :p
Click to expand...


I don't really care what people do. I'm just presenting my side of shlts n' giggles. I'm not really taking this issue to heart. If you want to take it, by all means knock yourself out. It is a free country and dosen't affect me.
 
MacTech said:
I mentioned this in another thread. My late wife took 3 150mg ED for 3 days of WellButrin, had a seizure went into a coma and died within 18 days.

Does that indicate everyone will have this problem with WB, certainly not. But seizures is listed as one of the ' side effects '. Death isn't.

Elevated liver enzymes only indicate your liver is working and be glad that it is. Repeated stress, over the years can take its toll. Wellbutrin didn't kill my wife, alcohol did. Autopsy showed cirrhosis and that doesn't happen quickly.

In an otherwise healthy adult, this would never have happened. She was not healthy.

The moral being there may have been some other underlying cause of your reaction to SuperDrol causing you to end up in the hospital, I don't know.

Needless to say, the message should be brought to the attention of its users and only they can make the decision to take the risk.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear man!that sucks!Their was alocal musician taking chantex to quit smoking.He was drinking when it tells you not to,got really drunk and violent.Everyone says he's never violent.His gf kicked him out and he went to the neighbors trying to get in thinking it was his house allegedly,the owner shot a bullet high to warn him,but it went into his 6foot + head.I wonder which caused this?Chantix or alcahol?Even if it was a combination of the two,alcahol was the final straw so to speack.
 
ReaperX said:
:yawn:
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you stand on no ground here. You claim everything we do is "bro-telligence", but you show no proof to the contrary. We are all adults, glad you made the choice to hate superdrol. To be honest, its not one of my favorites either, but thats MY choice. I'm not out forcing it down other peoples throats. If kids were dying or even being hospitalized from SD, it WOULD be on the news. It would be a huge scandal, the sensationalism of anti-supplements and steroids in the same package is every wanna be reporters wet-dream.

As per the standard of harshness, if you want it so bad, YOU make it. For me, SD was harsh. Felt like I got hit by a 18 wheeler half the time. Did i die? nope. Have I had blood work done in recent years that shows I'm not on the verge of a coronary and liver failure? yep. Ever seen supersize me? look what happened to his liver and cholesterol values. No steroids involved there. So you spend your time worrying about some "standard" of harshness, I'll spend my time lifting weights and making progress.
 
ReaperX said:
Once again, I am not familar with the terms such as 'That bad' or 'it is mild'.

What's the gold standard being held as to toxicity ? Are we referring to solely bloodwork values ?

So a 5 point increase in liver enzymes is 'ok' ?

A 10 point increase in liver enzymes is 'mild' ?

What are you basing these totally subjective comments off of ?

Or if you wind up like T-Bone in the hospital then it is 'harsh' and everything else is 'mild' ?



If you are going to set standards for toxicity, you need to impose restrictions for each level.



Honestly, there's just more respect involved if you guys admit that your 'analysis' of toxicity is nothing more than 'brotellegence' and 'bro-lore', because we both know that is what it is.



.....or 'Dude, I feel fine' testimonies.
Click to expand...

Its kind of like- Mauwi Woowie or purple Afgani is potent

Mexican dirt weed is mild

Male weed is bunk!
 
aspire-


your past 3 threads have been an utter waste of my time to read and completely worthless.

I'm not going to even justify a comment to such stupid/ignorant statements.


....supersize me. ok.
 
...there would have to be PLENTY of deaths/illnesses reported in regards to SD in order for it to be recognized as HORRIBLE...or if maybe a sports player was to get caught with it or admit to using it (sounds like another McGuire and 1AD scene again) and I am referring to SD clones since the compound is still around and obviously SD original is already banned...
 
Let me play Neo:

1. Epi is safe and effective

2. SD is effective

3. Stock up on Epi befor it is no longer around!
 
Let me play Neo:

1. Epi is safe and effective

2. SD is effective

3. Stock up on Epi before it is no longer around!
 
I'm offering an end to this thread if others want to join.It's getting nowhere.I have used this before and i'll use it now.This is like proving to a non christian that theirs a god,and proving to a christian that their isn't.GOOD LUCK!!!!!!
 
maynehood171 said:
...there would have to be PLENTY of deaths/illnesses reported in regards to SD in order for it to be recognized as HORRIBLE...or if maybe a sports player was to get caught with it or admit to using it (sounds like another McGuire and 1AD scene again) and I am referring to SD clones since the compound is still around and obviously SD original is already banned...
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It wasn't banned....it was discontinued.Now others make it.
 
pantera101 said:
I'm offering an end to this thread if others want to join.It's getting nowhere.I have used this before and i'll use it now.This is like proving to a non christian that theirs a god,and proving to a christian that their isn't.GOOD LUCK!!!!!!
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Agreed, I've studied steroid structure and taken them for 30
years and in my opinion Epi is relatively safe.
 
pantera101 said:
Thats good to hear!I have four bottles of havoc.
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I have 4 bottles of Havoc and 1 Epithin E left at the moment (Epithin E was first product I bought...and it better smell like rotten eggs! haha)...selling 3 bottles of Havoc at $40 a pop and ordering another 8 more this week...I have bought f'n 13 bottles total in 3 months, cycled 1, gave 2 away, and sold 7 thus far in 2 months...I still want a few bottles of the original Epithio for myself! haha...also goes to show you how much people want Epithio based products compared to others...(obviously in my local area lol)
 
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