Licorice Root and lower test
- Thread starter acshadow
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BuckeyeMuscle
Member
It is important to understand that these reported concerns are dose-related. 50mg taken two to three times daily is no where near enough to be causing problems. Glycyrrhizin (the active in licorice) has been shown to promote activity of the adrenal glands. Licorice extract does not increase coritsol levels at this dose. High doses of licorice (more than 20 g/day) may cause serious side effects, but as you can see, this is no where close. Licorice was put in Reset to maintain a balance of Cortisol. If you don't have a certain amount of cortisol in your body, the negative effects will be increased.
In easier terms, the study used 20+ grams a day, Reset AD has 50mg per dose. Your test levels will not be effected.
Reference:
Bernardi M, D'Intino PE, Trevisani F, et al. Effects of prolonged ingestion of graded doses of licorice by healthy volunteers. Life Sci. 1994;55(11):863-872.
acshadow
Member
thanks, thats exactly what i was looking for! :thumbsup:
BuckeyeMuscle
Member
No problem guys! If you ever have any more questions/concerns about any PAL products please feel free to ask. I'll be more than happy to address them.
MakaveliThaDon
Well-known member
It also leads to an increase in BP doesn't it?
I remember alot of bros, myself included being affected by high BP from the licorice root in 17-HD.
I remember alot of bros, myself included being affected by high BP from the licorice root in 17-HD.
BuckeyeMuscle
Member
There is no licorice root in 17-HD
When they say Glabra, Im assuming they are talking about Glychyrrhiza glabra (licorice). They do not say anything about how it is standardized, so I'm not sure. A side effect of licorice is a bit of high blood pressure. However, doses of pure glycyrrhizin that have been shown to correspond with high blood pressure are over 100mg. There is only 50mg of LICORICE root per cap of Reset AD, which is 100-150mg a day, this is NOT, however, the amount of glycyrrhizin. That amount would be smaller.
CanMan
New member
Ripley's believe it or not from Rep Boy, Broseph.....
Licorice = liquid estrogen.... so is dong quai, wild yam, siberian ginseng, damiana etc. The nutra firms have been experienting, at our peril, with phytoestrogens in their products for years, following the TCM notion that some ' yin ' must go with the ' yang ' in these test formulae to keep the adrenals strong. That is true, but this can be accomplished with non-estrogenic means. If your T levels are high, some licorice won't be too bad for you, but long term, you could see an effect ( ie; fluid retention, ' estro ' **** etc ).....
Licorice = liquid estrogen.... so is dong quai, wild yam, siberian ginseng, damiana etc. The nutra firms have been experienting, at our peril, with phytoestrogens in their products for years, following the TCM notion that some ' yin ' must go with the ' yang ' in these test formulae to keep the adrenals strong. That is true, but this can be accomplished with non-estrogenic means. If your T levels are high, some licorice won't be too bad for you, but long term, you could see an effect ( ie; fluid retention, ' estro ' **** etc ).....
Neil5585
Member
There are a couple things to add here.
1. Licorice root can INCREASE testosterone levels in the right conditions.
How? Well, if you have adrenal insufficiency (and low test), meaning your adrenals are not producing enough DHEA or cortisol, then the licorice root will work by increasing the half life of cortisol. This means less has to be produced to get an effect. What that does is "free up" the adrenals to produce more DHEA to help the body produce more testosterone.
But it's main adrenal function is to increase the half life of cortisol, reducing the burden on the adrenals because what the adrenals produce lasts longer.
This taken with a cortisol controlling supplement like rhodiola rosea (~150mg dose) will help increase energy since it reduces the stress on the adrenals and the rhodiola keeps cortisol from being too high or too low, as well as acting as an adaptogen to stress and giving you energy.
DGL licorice can be used to help heal up leaky gut, which is common today with our terrible diets, all the chemicals, drugs, ECA stacks for months on end and other NSAID use....
That said, I wouldn't use it unless I had a high level of stress, adrenal insufficiency, or leaky gut because it is estrogenic (although one can even possibly argue of the benefit of weak phytoestrogens when the body's endogenous levels of estrogen are very high, since it would bind to the receptors with a weaker activity than the real thing, blocking out the real estrogen).
1. Licorice root can INCREASE testosterone levels in the right conditions.
How? Well, if you have adrenal insufficiency (and low test), meaning your adrenals are not producing enough DHEA or cortisol, then the licorice root will work by increasing the half life of cortisol. This means less has to be produced to get an effect. What that does is "free up" the adrenals to produce more DHEA to help the body produce more testosterone.
But it's main adrenal function is to increase the half life of cortisol, reducing the burden on the adrenals because what the adrenals produce lasts longer.
This taken with a cortisol controlling supplement like rhodiola rosea (~150mg dose) will help increase energy since it reduces the stress on the adrenals and the rhodiola keeps cortisol from being too high or too low, as well as acting as an adaptogen to stress and giving you energy.
DGL licorice can be used to help heal up leaky gut, which is common today with our terrible diets, all the chemicals, drugs, ECA stacks for months on end and other NSAID use....
That said, I wouldn't use it unless I had a high level of stress, adrenal insufficiency, or leaky gut because it is estrogenic (although one can even possibly argue of the benefit of weak phytoestrogens when the body's endogenous levels of estrogen are very high, since it would bind to the receptors with a weaker activity than the real thing, blocking out the real estrogen).
CanMan
New member
sound points, Neil.... The Chinese use it in many of their
' yang ' formulae, but those are all based on 2000-year old recipes, well before our environment was flooded with xenoetrogens ( sp ? ) and T levels were, accordingly, much higher ( and hence we could handle more estrogen )
given your knowledge of adrenal function, any suggestions on how to protect them when using Yohimbe ?? I love the stuff for training, but it wreaks havoc on my kidneys / adrenals..... I avoid ginseng, as it makes me puffy w/ dark circles under the eyes....
' yang ' formulae, but those are all based on 2000-year old recipes, well before our environment was flooded with xenoetrogens ( sp ? ) and T levels were, accordingly, much higher ( and hence we could handle more estrogen )
given your knowledge of adrenal function, any suggestions on how to protect them when using Yohimbe ?? I love the stuff for training, but it wreaks havoc on my kidneys / adrenals..... I avoid ginseng, as it makes me puffy w/ dark circles under the eyes....
Neil5585
Member
Canman, I appreciate the confidence but I'm not up on all the adaptogens and how they work with exact problems and phenotypes 
One thing that is applicable to all would be basic nutrient support like tyrosine, vitamin C, B vitamins especially B5, B1, and B6, and of course mineral support ( Invalid Link Removed ). Another one is high dose cod liver oil, since it basically allows the adrenals to get by with producing less stress hormones. We're talking a bare minimum of 9g, but up to 20-40 depending on how stressful the circumstances.
Rhodiola is one that a lot of people seem to like. All you need is usually a 150mg/day, usually one cap of a quality extract. It has a bell shaped response curve, so more is NOT better.
There are a number of adaptogens you can experiment with if you'd like: rhodiola rosea, holy basil, American ginseng, ashwagandha, reishi mushroom, Korean (panex) ginseng (not sure which ginseng you used, but there are differences)
Other things you can do is make sure you optimize sleep. I know that can sometimes be hard on stimulants, but perhaps a time release melatonin (not if on X-Factor), GABA, tryptophan+ZMK, Relora, etc might help. Going to bed before 11 and waking up around 7 or earlier is another key, as well as reducing light in the evening, sleeping in complete darkness, and exposing yourself to bright full spectrum light in the morning and throughout the day (ideally good ol' sun). Optimizing sleep in this way will go a long way to help the adrenals.
And honestly so much can cause adrenal problems. Everything from liver health (which dark circles under the eyes would concern me with respect to liver health), to bowel health, to food and environmental allergies. Eat foods you're allergic or intolerant to and that can stress the adrenals. Even your mental health is tied to the adrenals. It's all tied together man.
One thing that is applicable to all would be basic nutrient support like tyrosine, vitamin C, B vitamins especially B5, B1, and B6, and of course mineral support ( Invalid Link Removed ). Another one is high dose cod liver oil, since it basically allows the adrenals to get by with producing less stress hormones. We're talking a bare minimum of 9g, but up to 20-40 depending on how stressful the circumstances.
Rhodiola is one that a lot of people seem to like. All you need is usually a 150mg/day, usually one cap of a quality extract. It has a bell shaped response curve, so more is NOT better.
There are a number of adaptogens you can experiment with if you'd like: rhodiola rosea, holy basil, American ginseng, ashwagandha, reishi mushroom, Korean (panex) ginseng (not sure which ginseng you used, but there are differences)
Other things you can do is make sure you optimize sleep. I know that can sometimes be hard on stimulants, but perhaps a time release melatonin (not if on X-Factor), GABA, tryptophan+ZMK, Relora, etc might help. Going to bed before 11 and waking up around 7 or earlier is another key, as well as reducing light in the evening, sleeping in complete darkness, and exposing yourself to bright full spectrum light in the morning and throughout the day (ideally good ol' sun). Optimizing sleep in this way will go a long way to help the adrenals.
And honestly so much can cause adrenal problems. Everything from liver health (which dark circles under the eyes would concern me with respect to liver health), to bowel health, to food and environmental allergies. Eat foods you're allergic or intolerant to and that can stress the adrenals. Even your mental health is tied to the adrenals. It's all tied together man.
CanMan
New member
Canman, I appreciate the confidence but I'm not up on all the adaptogens and how they work with exact problems and phenotypes
One thing that is applicable to all would be basic nutrient support like tyrosine, vitamin C, B vitamins especially B5, B1, and B6, and of course mineral support ( Invalid Link Removed ). Another one is high dose cod liver oil, since it basically allows the adrenals to get by with producing less stress hormones. We're talking a bare minimum of 9g, but up to 20-40 depending on how stressful the circumstances.
Rhodiola is one that a lot of people seem to like. All you need is usually a 150mg/day, usually one cap of a quality extract. It has a bell shaped response curve, so more is NOT better.
There are a number of adaptogens you can experiment with if you'd like: rhodiola rosea, holy basil, American ginseng, ashwagandha, reishi mushroom, Korean (panex) ginseng (not sure which ginseng you used, but there are differences)
Other things you can do is make sure you optimize sleep. I know that can sometimes be hard on stimulants, but perhaps a time release melatonin (not if on X-Factor), GABA, tryptophan+ZMK, Relora, etc might help. Going to bed before 11 and waking up around 7 or earlier is another key, as well as reducing light in the evening, sleeping in complete darkness, and exposing yourself to bright full spectrum light in the morning and throughout the day (ideally good ol' sun). Optimizing sleep in this way will go a long way to help the adrenals.
And honestly so much can cause adrenal problems. Everything from liver health (which dark circles under the eyes would concern me with respect to liver health), to bowel health, to food and environmental allergies. Eat foods you're allergic or intolerant to and that can stress the adrenals. Even your mental health is tied to the adrenals. It's all tied together man.
Thanks Neil - some good insight there !
It's panax that has a cortisol- like effect on me, as well as the dark circles.... I think you're right, likely liver malfunction, which yohimbe will contribue to after long-term use ....
I think I'll jack up the Cod Liver Oil and try rhodiola again( as well as sticking with the regular vitamins you mention .... )
I like ashwaghanda as well, but it's quite mild, really doesn't have an appreciable effect on me ....
I feel like a voodoo doctor most days trying to get the equation right, but maybe that's all part of the fun - lol
Neil5585
Member
If you have the money and time you could check into getting a myriad of tests done to help out. I honestly think they're worth it if you have the cash.
-Adrenal Stress Index test (ASI), which is saliva collection at 4 precise times during the day. This will test for DHEA-S as well as circadian rhythms of cortisol (one single test doesn't paint a good picture)
-Comprehensive allergy testing, which tests for delayed reactions via blood samples. No skin prick tests here...those aren't very good. You can get tested for hundreds of things. I did this once and was shocked at what I reacted to: sugar of almost any kind, oranges, amaranth (a grain), sucanat, latex, antimony, a certain mold, carob (in many processed foods like ice cream, cottage cheese, etc), nitrites like in bacon and hams....lots of weird **** I had no idea about, and honestly I realized I did react to them after I stayed away from them and then tested to see if I reacted. No way would I have seen this through elimination diets.
-ION panel by metametrix. Okay it's like $800 which is very expensive out of pocket, but what it tells you is absolutely amazing. Levels of vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, fats (not just the ratios of EFAs), the levels of amino acids...and much more. Once you have this info you are armed to make the best customized supplement stack. Screw just taking EAA for a workout...take your OWN custom blend based on what your body needs! That'll give more energy and surely better growth.
-Urine heavy metal test. Especially if you live in the north-east of the US. This can be quite common. Not heavy metal *poisoning*, but elevated levels. Lead, mercury, arsenic, cadmium, etc can really mess with almost anything at such a basic level.
There are many more but these are great tools. I could go into more detail if you're at all interested.
CanMan
New member
thanks neil, good advise indeed !
the adrenals are a much underrated area of overall health, it seems. I just find most products ( read, herbs ) that support / boost them have an estrogenic effect on me , but I guess that's why we've got vitamins, aminos etc. to use instead....
I hear you re food sensitivities.... I went on the blood - type diet years ago and it did make quite the difference, but I was always eating ( moreso than normal )and I was always hungry
( no starches )
Had mercury tested once and it was high ( amaklgams ) ... doc got it down with selenium and chlorella... should have ti checked again, though....
Neil5585
Member
Definitely have it checked again! I was tested high for lead and mercury, did chelation with DMSA and chlorella, and after about a year I retested and my lead and mercury levels were 3 times lower, however my cadmium, arsenic, and aluminum levels were way up! Apparently the body often detoxes these metals in "stages" so to speak. At first my body was ready to get rid of the lead and mercury, and once they were down, I guess deep stores of the other nasty metals started coming out! Crazy stuff. I've seen big improvements in health and gains since chelating the heavy metals for a long time.
Definitely need good minerals to go with this kind of therapy. The ZMK mineral supplement on nutraplanet is by far the best mineral supplement I've ever seen. It's truly awesome!
BTW, have you considered getting the mercury fillings replaced with a healthier option? If you do, just be careful that it's done properly or else you can end up with a nice big dose of mercury into your system.
CanMan
New member
Thanks man... I'll see if we get ZMK up here in Canada - sounds like money.
I do eat a lot of kelp too , which is a treasure trove of
Scary business with the lead , cadmium etc....
Time to get some more tests done, I guess. I hate dentists ( hope UR not one : ) from all the root canals and bridges I've had over the years from lost teeth playing hockey.... those replacement fillings have a short shelf life, no ?
I do eat a lot of kelp too , which is a treasure trove of
Scary business with the lead , cadmium etc....
Time to get some more tests done, I guess. I hate dentists ( hope UR not one : ) from all the root canals and bridges I've had over the years from lost teeth playing hockey.... those replacement fillings have a short shelf life, no ?