Pride fighters in the UFC

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Since this has been a topic in many different threads, I thought it would be a great option to have its very own. So far we have seen many former Pride fighters in the UFC, and most of them are lackluster at best.
the Good
Anderson Silva
Quentin Jackson
Wandy Silva (fought like a champ in a loss)

The Mediocre
Nog (looked uninspired)
Herring (not really sure if he should be on the list)
Dan Henderson (I see him being better @ 185)

The Bad
Cro Cop (I really expected him to dominate and it has been disturbing to see)
Shogun (awful)
Soko
Chonan

If I missed anyone feel free to add. Now lets get to it, why are there so many flops? Could it be the lack of drug testing in Japan, or are the Pride guys just not as good as advertised. Thoughts?
 
CC's problem is mental and Shogun fought with a blown out knee. Hendo did well against Rampage.

The main difference between American MMA and the rest of the world is wrestling. Not just the technique, but also their subculture (e.g. weight cutting). Also, adjusting to the cage and shorter rounds is having a huge impact.
 
its just amazing the difference. I mean some of the guys who were obviously very talented in Pride, have struggled a great deal here in the US.
 
I would say that only CC is truly a disappointment. He lost to 2 non-top 10 fighters and looked disinterested in both fights.
 
I dont think any fighter can blame the cage, they are ready to come into a fight they have about 3+ months of time to adjust and the only thing they have to adjust with the cage is the ground game and the clinch against the cage, in hawaii we have both a cage and ring and the our cage is super small and the ring is huge but with a lot of practice its nothing to you cant train for.
It could be more mental than a physical thing, training and fighting your entire life to lead up to the worlds Top Organization in the and live up to your fulliest is pretty though man, everyone expects you to kick ass kinda like CC you would expect him to come in and just dominate the entire HW division, or even GSP when took the belt from Matt everyone thought it was gonna be a while until some one takes him out but then you got all this hype from everyone and he just messed up. its a crazy thang
 
Wandy had trouble adjusting to the cage, even though he fought in it before. How many times did we see Liddel teeing off with Wandy's back against the cage?

I thought the fight was good, but I would have liked to see Wandy try the MT plumb-he had two chances that I recall, and he also should have tried to go from a clinch to a trip. His ground game is very good, but he tired himself out in those exchanges. I think it is also due to his desire to please the fans over winning...which is not necessarily a bad thing.
 
Cropcop fought Sanchez and Gonzaga without ever training in a cage. For the Kongo fight, the UFC finally supplied him with a scaled down version of the octoagon and had it shipped to Zagreb, where he finally trained in it for the first time with Dean Lister and Bojansky, among others. It apparently didnt help.
I think Crocops problem is a combo of fighting guys much bigger than him and fighting guys much bigger than him in a cage. In a ring he was able to bounce of the ropes and get away and not get pushed up against the cage and take elbows to the forehead for 3 minutes(Gonzaga).
Plus, crocop has never never trained to defend or utilize elbows.
 
Why does the UFC have to ship Mirko a cage to Russia? If he wants to be home get a damn cage, if not come to somewhere you can train in one. Excuses. I like CC style but he got his ass kicked. I love Pride but some people have this illusion that you have to make excuses for performance. Again, I say some people. There are legit differences and that should be considered but not as a sole reason. I also think the steroid issue is most definately a factor.

lifter2005 said:
Cropcop fought Sanchez and Gonzaga without ever training in a cage. For the Kongo fight, the UFC finally supplied him with a scaled down version of the octoagon and had it shipped to Zagreb, where he finally trained in it for the first time with Dean Lister and Bojansky, among others. It apparently didnt help.
I think Crocops problem is a combo of fighting guys much bigger than him and fighting guys much bigger than him in a cage. In a ring he was able to bounce of the ropes and get away and not get pushed up against the cage and take elbows to the forehead for 3 minutes(Gonzaga).
Plus, crocop has never never trained to defend or utilize elbows.
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Blutarski said:
Why does the UFC have to ship Mirko a cage to Russia? If he wants to be home get a damn cage, if not come to somewhere you can train in one. Excuses. I like CC style but he got his ass kicked. I love Pride but some people have this illusion that you have to make excuses for performance. Again, I say some people. There are legit differences and that should be considered but not as a sole reason. I also think the steroid issue is most definately a factor.
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Lets say you work for Careerbuilder.com... you are the top salesman for them. One day Careerbuilder closes up shop. You get hired on art Monster.com.

What are the chances you perform at that same best of the best level right off the bat?

0%.
 
I agree Mouth and that's why I didn't get too excited about Shogun and Wandy maybe not looking their best. But Crocop looked like crap I was mostly referring to him and the excuses people are making for him. I do see your point, and I hope people also see my side of the equation too. I think the answer lies soemwhere in the middle. Not all Pride fighters are a good as advertised and some will come around and show their worth. I was shocked at how small Wandy looked and to at least not consider that roids may have played a part in his physical skills in Japan would be putting my head in the sand. I hope that is not the case but even if it is I don't hold him in any less regard. Peace bro.
 
Blutarski said:
I agree Mouth and that's why I didn't get too excited about Shogun and Wandy maybe not looking their best. But Crocop looked like crap I was mostly referring to him and the excuses people are making for him. I do see your point, and I hope people also see my side of the equation too. I think the answer lies soemwhere in the middle. Not all Pride fighters are a good as advertised and some will come around and show their worth. I was shocked at how small Wandy looked and to at least not consider that roids may have played a part in his physical skills in Japan would be putting my head in the sand. I hope that is not the case but even if it is I don't hold him in any less regard. Peace bro.
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When the UFC aquired PRIDE... they FORCED some PRIDE guys to fight for the UFC to fulfill contracts left over from PRIDE. Some didn't want to. So I am betting that led to the "Who gives a ****" training methods.
 
Blutarski said:
I agree Mouth and that's why I didn't get too excited about Shogun and Wandy maybe not looking their best. But Crocop looked like crap I was mostly referring to him and the excuses people are making for him. I do see your point, and I hope people also see my side of the equation too. I think the answer lies soemwhere in the middle. Not all Pride fighters are a good as advertised and some will come around and show their worth. I was shocked at how small Wandy looked and to at least not consider that roids may have played a part in his physical skills in Japan would be putting my head in the sand. I hope that is not the case but even if it is I don't hold him in any less regard. Peace bro.
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Shogun also fought with a blown-out knee. CC's problem is that he is mental. Except for the OWGP, he has never lived up to his potential.
 
Point taken. Do you guys think the bad knee also led to the poor conditioning that seemed to hurt him in the Griffin fight. I'm not an MMA fighther so I don't really know if the pounding takes it out of you or prior conditioning. I'm guessing a combo of both.


Rodja said:
Shogun also fought with a blown-out knee. CC's problem is that he is mental. Except for the OWGP, he has never lived up to his potential.
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Blutarski said:
Point taken. Do you guys think the bad knee also led to the poor conditioning that seemed to hurt him in the Griffin fight. I'm not an MMA fighther so I don't really know if the pounding takes it out of you or prior conditioning. I'm guessing a combo of both.
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It effected his conditioning, but it really took away his burst. He was not the dynamic fighter that we have seen in the past against Griffin.
 
If Shogun's knee was in terrible shape, I don't see how he could have even come close to the level of conditioning needed to be successful, especially b/c Griffin has a great gas tank.
 
Beowulf said:
Wandy had trouble adjusting to the cage, even though he fought in it before. How many times did we see Liddel teeing off with Wandy's back against the cage?
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Ahh, it's called the Rope-a-Dope or Cage-a-dope or something.....

Yeah, I wasn't sure what Wand was doing either, but he actually got in some good counters off the fence, at least before the 3rd.
 
TheMouth said:
When the UFC aquired PRIDE... they FORCED some PRIDE guys to fight for the UFC to fulfill contracts left over from PRIDE. Some didn't want to. So I am betting that led to the "Who gives a ****" training methods.
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no offense but this is just sill.y By saying this you are questioning the way these men make a lviing, and I dont think that it is a valid argument. I think by watching Wandy train, your statement is proven false
 
Reaper329 said:
no offense but this is just sill.y By saying this you are questioning the way these men make a lviing, and I dont think that it is a valid argument. I think by watching Wandy train, your statement is proven false
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Are you high?

I know this to be fact, it isn't just some idea I have.

The UFC strong armed some PRIDE guys to fight for way less than they had agreed to because of reconstructing contracts. Not only that but PRIDE didn't do any blood testing either. First time they did it was in Vegas.
 
TheMouth said:
Are you high?

I know this to be fact, it isn't just some idea I have.

The UFC strong armed some PRIDE guys to fight for way less than they had agreed to because of reconstructing contracts. Not only that but PRIDE didn't do any blood testing either. First time they did it was in Vegas.
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There still isn't any blood tests; there are urine tests, but not blood tests. Otherwise, almost all fighters would be getting popped for taking GH/IGF-1.
 
Rodja said:
There still isn't any blood tests; there are urine tests, but not blood tests. Otherwise, almost all fighters would be getting popped for taking GH/IGF-1.
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You're right... I just typed blood tests. Meant to sat DRUG tests.

I blame my hangover.
 
Beowulf said:
If Shogun's knee was in terrible shape, I don't see how he could have even come close to the level of conditioning needed to be successful, especially b/c Griffin has a great gas tank.
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I've also heard Wandy say in an interview that Shogun simply underestimated Griffin. IMO, it had more to do with attitude than it did physical attributes.
 
Rodja said:
There still isn't any blood tests; there are urine tests, but not blood tests. Otherwise, almost all fighters would be getting popped for taking GH/IGF-1.
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I thought there was no accurate test for GH still and maybe IGF? Don't they test fighters for HIV, Hep C,.... etc.? I thought that required a blood test?
 
jas123 said:
I thought there was no accurate test for GH still and maybe IGF? Don't they test fighters for HIV, Hep C,.... etc.? I thought that required a blood test?
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Different type of test, but, no, there still isn't a reliable test for GH/IGF. In TX, we are tested for HIV and Hep, but our license is good for one year.
 
jas123 said:
Ahh, it's called the Rope-a-Dope or Cage-a-dope or something.....

Yeah, I wasn't sure what Wand was doing either, but he actually got in some good counters off the fence, at least before the 3rd.
Click to expand...

Wandy often chose to trade with Chuck and not circle away, it's easier to slide away with a circular/octagonal cage to your back than pressed against the ropes or trapped in the square corner of a ring.

Ali's Rope a Dope, technically called shelling in boxing, is hard to do with lightweight MMA gloves, can't hide behind the padding like one can with a boxing glove.

Mirko bought his cage in Croatia, the UFC did'nt supply it.
 
TheMouth said:
Are you high?

I know this to be fact, it isn't just some idea I have.

The UFC strong armed some PRIDE guys to fight for way less than they had agreed to because of reconstructing contracts. Not only that but PRIDE didn't do any blood testing either. First time they did it was in Vegas.
Click to expand...

you know this for a fact? and how would that be?
 
Rogue Drone said:
Wandy often chose to trade with Chuck and not circle away, it's easier to slide away with a circular/octagonal cage to your back than pressed against the ropes or trapped in the square corner of a ring.

Ali's Rope a Dope, technically called shelling in boxing, is hard to do with lightweight MMA gloves, can't hide behind the padding like one can with a boxing glove.

Mirko bought his cage in Croatia, the UFC did'nt supply it.
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You are correct. He had a cage built for his facility. Im not sure why I said UFC supplied it for him.
Im still not convinced that it will work. I dont think his style is suited for a cage. He is pretty much just a kickboxer competing in a MMA match. I wish him the best. He is my favorite fighter.
 
jas123 said:
It was a joke all-knowing one :box: :nutkick: :twisted:
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I used to do Humor, but that's so 2006, back in the Barnacle Bunch days when we were all merry and gay.

I know what I know and say so, it's not like I'll be commenting on the Geomorphometry of Nebraska anytime soon, ya Flapjack Griddlecake.
 
Rogue Drone said:
Wandy often chose to trade with Chuck and not circle away, it's easier to slide away with a circular/octagonal cage to your back than pressed against the ropes or trapped in the square corner of a ring.

Ali's Rope a Dope, technically called shelling in boxing, is hard to do with lightweight MMA gloves, can't hide behind the padding like one can with a boxing glove.

Mirko bought his cage in Croatia, the UFC did'nt supply it.
Click to expand...

Not to be a ****, but I don't think it worked out that well for Ali in the long run, even with the 10-12 oz gloves.
 
Yeah, but he lasted longer than non combatant Michael J Fox did, the twitch is a B1tch.

You know in the movies were the guys will assume the weird looking fists forward and vertical and fight bare knuckle, pugilism?

That stance was developed to both protect the knuckles and wrists, a vertical fist is a better alignment of the bones and the spacing was to block punches without padding up close. I can't see how it's better than cocked palm heels and fists to soft targets myself.

Invalid Link Removed
 
That's true, it's impossible to say for sure if Ali's condition is from getting punched, my guess is that it didn't help.

I've actually had an old dude square off on me like the dude in that photo. It was over some road rage and I apologized to him and told him thanks for the laugh even though he was in the wrong.
 
The substantia nigra, where Parkinson's develops from an ultimate deficiency in dopaminergic transmission, is hard to damage through impact. Though those with severe head trauma have been shown to develop PD at somewhere around 3-4x the likelihood of the pop., It's probably a combination of factors. His head trauma definitely worsened his condition though.
 
Mulletsoldier said:
The substantia nigra, where Parkinson's develops from an ultimate deficiency in dopaminergic transmission, is hard to damage through impact. Though those with severe head trauma have been shown to develop PD at somewhere around 3-4x the likelihood of the pop., It's probably a combination of factors. His head trauma definitely worsened his condition though.
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There you have it, Britannica boy comes through again:thumbsup:
 
Rogue Drone said:
I used to do Humor, but that's so 2006, back in the Barnacle Bunch days when we were all merry and gay.

I know what I know and say so, it's not like I'll be commenting on the Geomorphometry of Nebraska anytime soon, ya Flapjack Griddlecake.
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You'll be talking about the Bo Peliniometry of the Huskers next season, though. :head:

'06 was a fun year in the MMA forum. Unfortunately the Barnacle clamped on elsewhere.
 
MarcusG was around a long time ago, but I think he left around the time I was making a name for myself on the MMA forum scene :twisted: I guess there can only be one alpha around here :bb2:

:twisted:
 
jas123 said:
MarcusG was around a long time ago, but I think he left around the time I was making a name for myself on the MMA forum scene :twisted: I guess there can only be one alpha around here :bb2:

:twisted:
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Yeah, I think he bolted once he realized you were taking over as the head queer of the MMA forum. I thought you might get some competition when ForcesofGreen showed up. My jokes are getting progressively worse, have you noticed?
 
FOG was a good one too along with everyone's favorite Vince Spider. Your jokes are getting worse and Rogue's been on fire lately, we better not try to talk smack to him again until the pills wear off :twisted:
 
Rogue's been on fire? With that Cornhusker joke? I'll have to dumb my sh*t down for you. Carlos Mencia might be right up your alley, or even Carrot Top.
 
haha, nice. I was trying to think of horrible comics and couldn't even do that. Gallagher is hilarious, he smashes stuff and it sprays on people, haha.
 
Alexander said:
Rogue's been on fire? With that Cornhusker joke? I'll have to dumb my sh*t down for you. Carlos Mencia might be right up your alley, or even Carrot Top.
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Hey **** you *******, I make niche jokes that people like. Besides, I'm huge in the gay arena. Jas hired me to perform at his b..f......I mean, 'boss's' birthday.

:bb2:
 
Mulletsoldier said:
Hey **** you *******, I make niche jokes that people like. Besides, I'm huge in the gay arena. Jas hired me to perform at his b..f......I mean, 'boss's' birthday.

:bb2:
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Jas really is one gay sumofab*tch. I thought you were more of a blonde with hints of strawberry. Tripdog, now that guy is Carrot Tops lil bro.
 
LOL.

Haha, dude that's so funny. People always call me a ginger, and I say exactly what you just said. Validation...allright.
 
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