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Non-Responding to Supplements

strategicmove

strategicmove

Legend
I understand that, although our physiologies are structurally the same, several factors ensure there are fine differences in the functioning of our bodies. Yet, the concept of non-response to supplemented compounds is still unclear to me.

Do we just respond differently to the same compound? Is this response dose-dependent? Or is there such a thing as a complete non-response to a compound? Or do some questionable supplement companies use the term "non-responder" to ward-off justified attacks directed at inferior formulations? Can there be a complete non-responder? If yes, how can this be?

What do you think?
 
I think some people just expect gains as if they were on dbol or somthing like that because of some companies hype of a product. When they dont get it they say its garbage or they're a non-responder. That paired with a poor diet/training program isn't going to yeild much of anything.

As far as creatine non-responders im in the grey area there. I have a hard time beleiveing people dont respond to it, buti'm not ruleing it out.
 
Distilled Water said:
I think some people just expect gains as if they were on dbol or somthing like that because of some companies hype of a product. When they dont get it they say its garbage or they're a non-responder. That paired with a poor diet/training program isn't going to yeild much of anything.

As far as creatine non-responders im in the grey area there. I have a hard time beleiveing people dont respond to it, buti'm not ruleing it out.
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I barely respond to anything. Creatine included, trust me I don't respond. I always hate when People say it must be my diet or training. And they never understand when I tell them that I'm still gaining just not any differently. As in for example

training+diet = 1 extra lb

training+diet+supplement=1 extra lb

I almost started to believe people that it must be my training and diet even tho I have never stopped gaining. Then USPlabs got me to test Yellow Cold and I blew up within a month. This isn't a advertisement for them. Just telling you which supplement actually works on me. Feel free to check out my log to see the before and after pics. Who knows why, I think its either my liver breaks down too much or not enough...
 
Rivet said:
I barely respond to anything. Creatine included, trust me I don't respond. I always hate when People say it must be my diet or training. And they never understand when I tell them that I'm still gaining just not any differently. As in for example

training+diet = 1 extra lb

training+diet+supplement=1 extra lb

I almost started to believe people that it must be my training and diet even tho I have never stopped gaining. Then USPlabs got me to test Yellow Cold and I blew up within a month. This isn't a advertisement for them. Just telling you which supplement actually works on me. Feel free to check out my log to see the before and after pics. Who knows why, I think its either my liver breaks down too much or not enough...
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You may be an exception Rivet. I'm speaking more for the general population. I here guys in the gym or guys that come to my store saying they dont respond. I think my words came out diff then what I ment. I'm sure there are a few that dont respond just like with foods that people can't eat so I can see it as plausable.

You understand what I mean :think:
 
I think a common misconception when some people start taking supplements is that they will see immediate gains. Now Im not saying this is everyone or anyone specific, but i have known a few people in my day that start on a supplement and after a week tell me its crap because they aren't seeing results.

This could be one variable in the non responder category i'm sure. Its not that the supplement is bad, but its the user that is in error by not giving it adequate time for their body to utilize the extra help it is receiving.

As for a true non resonder, those who follow the instructions completely and have diet and training in check, i'm not sure what would cause their body to react differently with one supplement as opposed to the other. My only guess would be the dose they are supplementing at, but again thats only my guess.

OP Good luck I hope you can get some answers on this one. It will be interesting to keep track of and see what comes up.
 
Distilled Water said:
You may be an exception Rivet.
You understand what I mean :think:
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Yea, and I take the above comment as a compliment :)

MasterFlexx said:
I think a common misconception when some people start taking supplements is that they will see immediate gains. Now Im not saying this is everyone or anyone specific, but i have known a few people in my day that start on a supplement and after a week tell me its crap because they aren't seeing results.
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Yea most supps I respond to I know pretty much within a week or less. But I always give them more then a month if possible.
 
I believe that everyone reacts differently to different dosages of supplementation. Some people may not get a reaction from the recommended dosage of a supplement and may need to go beyond the recommendation.

Also I don't think that sometimes people expect too much of a supplement and may call themselves a non responder. I don't thin there is a way to prove that someone doesnt respond to a product however sometimes it the non response can be because of poor diet/training or maybe some other cause.

Think of it in terms of how our body works. The clearest example that I could give is allergic reactions. Some people get allergic reactions to certian types of foods or seasons of the year. Although our body structure and such is the same, Person A may be allergic to this while Person B may not. The point is that every person is different and it's really hard to say if a person is a non responder or not. Sometimes it may as well be the supplement company telling the consumers that they are a non responder due to a inferior formulation.

My overall opinion, Yes there are non responders. What works for some may very well not work for others. If a large group of people claim to be non responders to a certian product, most likely it's the poor formulation of the supplement itself.
 
Cellardude said:
Think of it in terms of how our body works. The clearest example that I could give is allergic reactions. Some people get allergic reactions to certian types of foods or seasons of the year. Although our body structure and such is the same, Person A may be allergic to this while Person B may not. The point is that every person is different and it's really hard to say if a person is a non responder or not.
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Thats what I was trying to say with my post if it didn't come out right. Sounded fine in my head, lol.
 
I tend to respond to products within the first week. After the second or third week though I get little or no response. Of course it depends on the product but most work this way for me. Even if I am given a medication from the doctor, I will get a response from it for the first week or two then it starts to dwindle. Strange that I respond to certain products this way.
 
I get the drift so far. A combination of impatience and under-dosing may produce non-response-like outcomes, right? Thanks for your thoughts. It is still perplexing, though, that some athletes insist they feel absolutely no impact from consuming a compound for "a while", in a dose-independent fashion. Even after stretching my imagination, it is still hard to fathom that ingesting a compound at varying doses would not trigger any biochemical reactions in our bodies. Except we simultaneously ingest other compounds that neutralize the impact of our compound in question. Am I mixing things up?
 
T-Bone; said:
...Strange that I respond to certain products this way.
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Are these specific compounds or specific classes of compounds?
 
strategicmove said:
I get the drift so far. A combination of impatience and under-dosing may produce non-response-like outcomes, right? Thanks for your thoughts. It is still perplexing, though, that some athletes insist they feel absolutely no impact from consuming a compound for "a while", in a dose-independent fashion. Even after stretching my imagination, it is still hard to fathom that ingesting a compound at varying doses would not trigger any biochemical reactions in our bodies. Except we simultaneously ingest other compounds that neutralize the impact of our compound in question. Am I making any sense?
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yes you are. I understand it completely. There are different degrees to a reaction to certian compounds in our bodys as well. For instance caffeine on my brother with half the dosage would give him headache/crashes that would normally take me double dosages to feel. I would also imagine this applies in terms of effectiveness of certian dosages that is recommended on instruction labels. Sometimes we may respond better to higher dosages sometimes lower. Depends on the person. Im sure there are certian people who just don't respond in general. And other times it may very well be the supplement company's hype of a bogus product. A factor of all of these might very well be the answer for a non responder.
 
strategicmove said:
Are these specific compounds or specific classes of compounds?
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It just depends, with bulk powerful I responded right away to a normal dose for the first week or so and got an awesome libido boost. After the initial week the libido effect completely stoped. I upped the dose significantly and still did not get the libido boost that I got at first. I still got a relaxation type effect that I really liked, but I had to raise the dose again and again to get the same relaxation type effect which diminished over time also. A few years back I had been on a medication called dicyclomine for IBS. The doctor had to keep raising it for me to get the same results, eventually I had to just stop taking it because it would have become toxic. I also had the same problem with prescibed adderal, but I stayed at certain doses for longer periods of time. My body just seems to react really quickly at first to a drug or supplement than it levels off or stops responding completely until either I raise the dose significantly or take a long break and then re-introduce the drug or supplement.
 
T-Bone said:
It just depends, with bulk powerful I responded right away to a normal dose for the first week or so and got an awesome libido boost. After the initial week the libido effect completely stoped. I upped the dose significantly and still did not get the libido boost that I got at first. I still got a relaxation type effect that I really liked, but I had to raise the dose again and again to get the same relaxation type effect which diminished over time also. A few years back I had been on a medication called dicyclomine for IBS. The doctor had to keep raising it for me to get the same results, eventually I had to just stop taking it because it would have become toxic. I also had the same problem with prescibed adderal, but I stayed at certain doses for longer periods of time. My body just seems to react really quickly at first to a drug or supplement than it levels off or stops responding completely until either I raise the dose significantly or take a long break and then re-introduce the drug or supplement.
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unfortunately thats the way our body works. Our body learns to adapt to things that it was given and starts to learn how to adapt to them. I was using some pretty hefty antibiotics for acne months ago. After 1-2 weeks my acne vanished. When they started coming back I renewed the perscription and got more. The effectiveness of it starts to dwindle rapidly after a certian point. To this day I don't think that the antibiotics will do much for me even after I attempted to cycle them off. Just goes to show you that most if not all supplements need to be cycled. Im sure everyone can account for the diminishing effects of products after continuous use. Hope that helps.
 
T-Bone; said:
It just depends, with bulk powerful I responded right away to a normal dose for the first week or so and got an awesome libido boost. After the initial week the libido effect completely stoped. I upped the dose significantly and still did not get the libido boost that I got at first. I still got a relaxation type effect that I really liked, but I had to raise the dose again and again to get the same relaxation type effect which diminished over time also. A few years back I had been on a medication called dicyclomine for IBS. The doctor had to keep raising it for me to get the same results, eventually I had to just stop taking it because it would have become toxic. I also had the same problem with prescibed adderal, but I stayed at certain doses for longer periods of time. My body just seems to react really quickly at first to a drug or supplement than it levels off or stops responding completely until either I raise the dose significantly or take a long break and then re-introduce the drug or supplement.
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Now got it, T-Bone. Thanks. So in your case, it is a physiological-metabolic issue. The tolerance loop is relatively short. A response exists, but is a shorter-than-normally-expected one with a fast onset of tolerance. Must be pretty frustrating.
 
Cellardude; said:
unfortunately thats the way our body works. Our body learns to adapt to things that it was given and starts to learn how to adapt to them....Just goes to show you that most if not all supplements need to be cycled. Im sure everyone can account for the diminishing effects of products after continuous use. Hope that helps.
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Spot on, Cellar!
 
What kind of response should one expect from supposedly inferior products? As long as they contain non-inert compounds, they must elicit biochemical responses in our bodies after consumption of non-negligible quantities, right? The outcome may probably not the desired one, but it exists nonetheless. Any points of view?
 
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