[Nitrox]

Given my carb-challenged physiology (type 2, non-insulin dependent) I'm not able to take advantage of a 40/40/20 macro ratio.

I need about 2900 kcals to gain 1lb every 7-10 days (5'9", 150lbs, ~10%). About 100g of carbs is my limit before blood glucose creeps up. Most are consumed pre and/or post w.o. Factoring in 250g of protein, that leaves about half of my calories from fat.

Thought I would see what kind of ideas everyone had on the best way to make this work or on alternatives. I will be hitting the doc up for some exo insulin on the next visit but in the meantime this is what I have to work with.

[spitboy]

Have you used the typical OTC supplements for controlling BG spikes w/ carbs? -- ALA, vinegar, etc.

[Nitrox]

Good idea but yes, acetic acid and cinnamon are regulars in my diet. Tried some R-ala and it wasnt worth the bottle it came in.

While these work, from my experience they dont work as well in diabetics. They might get you an extra 10%, so in the case of my 100g of carbs, I get an extra 10g. Whereas the 'healthy' individual would get an extra, say, 40g on 400g...

[spitboy]

My wife is insulin-dependent but I'm sure you've done more experimenting yourself than I've been able to do on her

We've found ALA to (anecdotally) work pretty well; perhaps you got a bunk bottle? Have you tried a more 'name brand' ALA or perhaps one of the ALA+ items like Glucophase or Glucorell? The wife has never done a controlled test by eating the same foods with and without it, but she is an RN and keeps her blood sugars very stable; she knows what food should do to her and ALA seems to allow her more leeway on the cheat meals without having to resort to pinning some fast-acting.

Sorry I don't have much else to offer; I'm a newb and my wife is losing weight-- so she is carb restricted (dropping her overall insulin use quite dramatically).

[glenihan]

Originally Posted by Nitrox

Given my carb-challenged physiology (type 2, non-insulin dependent) I'm not able to take advantage of a 40/40/20 macro ratio.

I need about 2900 kcals to gain 1lb every 7-10 days (5'9", 150lbs, ~10%). About 100g of carbs is my limit before blood glucose creeps up. Most are consumed pre and/or post w.o. Factoring in 250g of protein, that leaves about half of my calories from fat.

Thought I would see what kind of ideas everyone had on the best way to make this work or on alternatives. I will be hitting the doc up for some exo insulin on the next visit but in the meantime this is what I have to work with.

well you could certainly use insulin to your advantage PWO ... about going to the doc i THINK humilin-R is OTC at pharmacies .. although i'm not really all that familiar with type 2 diabetes, you may need a slower acting insulin, which you could still definitely use to your advantage once you get all the aspects of timing it down

i would bump that protein up to 300 personally just because i wouldn't want half my cals coming from fat .. but the fat cals you do get should come from things like natty peanut butter, olive oil, salmon. ecetera, ecetera

and are you sure about your 2900 cals calculationg even at your BW that seems a little low ... maybe not though your LBM is 135 assuming you are ACTUALLY 10%

[Nitrox]

Originally Posted by glenihan

well you could certainly use insulin to your advantage PWO ... about going to the doc i THINK humilin-R is OTC at pharmacies .. although i'm not really all that familiar with type 2 diabetes, you may need a slower acting insulin, which you could still definitely use to your advantage once you get all the aspects of timing it down

I belive it is OTC in Canada but nonetheless Im hesitant to start without informing the doc, not because I dont know what I'm doing but sometimes doctors get touchy about patients doing their 'own thing'.

Originally Posted by glenihan

i would bump that protein up to 300 personally just because i wouldn't want half my cals coming from fat .. but the fat cals you do get should come from things like natty peanut butter, olive oil, salmon. ecetera, ecetera

I have had protein upwards of 300g and found that around that level I, shall we say, spent much more time leaving my mark... There may have been other factors involved but nothing obvious.

What are the concerns of a relatively large percentage of calories sourced from fat - assuming healthy ones?

I do use alot of mono and poly unsaturates but I also get saturates from meat and dairy. Is it not the overall balance that is important? Blood tests had cholesterol at 3.8 and 3.3 (mmol/L?) over the last couple years. So I dont think Im heading for a coronary.

Am I correct in assuming that calorie for calorie, fat is more lipogenic than protein or carbohydrate?

Originally Posted by glenihan

and are you sure about your 2900 cals calculationg even at your BW that seems a little low ... maybe not though your LBM is 135 assuming you are ACTUALLY 10%

Quite sure that those numbers are well in the ballpark. Ill look into posting some pics and the whole diet.

[kwantam]

What you're describing (high fat, carb intake based around workout) would essentially be a TKD. It is certainly possible to bulk on such a diet; there may be some useful threads on this subject over at c-k-d.com.

-kwantam

[Nitrox]

Thx Kwantum, taking a look over there.

[exnihilo]

Just get most of your carbs from lentils, broccoli, spinach, hulled barley and other extremely low-gi foods. You are who the GI was made for man, use it...

That being said, you could probably take fats as high as about 40% of your diet and see decent results if the quality of all the fats was outstanding but I'd try and just work in more super-low-gi carbs. Also, don't use that much whey and milk if you're pooping too much.

[Nitrox]

Originally Posted by exnihilo

Just get most of your carbs from lentils, broccoli, spinach, hulled barley and other extremely low-gi foods. You are who the GI was made for man, use it...

That being said, you could probably take fats as high as about 40% of your diet and see decent results if the quality of all the fats was outstanding but I'd try and just work in more super-low-gi carbs. Also, don't use that much whey and milk if you're pooping too much.

Excessive urination was more of the problem with 300g protein. Likely a lot of deamination of protein going on.

Unfortunately, most of my carbs are already super low GI (vegs, apples, oranges, grapefruit, and dairy). Lower GI carbs are better but they still contribute to the overall load.

A good way to think about my situation is that I have a fixed amount of carb processing ability through insulin mediated glucose uptake. Also, this ability is inversely proportional to caloric intake. So things get trickier when trying to gain weight. At 2900 kcals, 100-120g of 'resting' carbs are giving me higher than ideal glucose levels.

The basic protocol over on C-K-D involves around 65% of calories from fat. There seems to be no short or medium term problems associated with this ratio.

Ive redone my diet TKD style, 3000 kcals, 200g protein, 50g carbs + 50g pre/post workout, remainder in fats (fish, eggs, cheese, poultry, pork, olive + flax oils, walnuts + almonds.) So far blood glucose levels are very good. Im doing a Westside/bodybuilding hybrid so I should be able to get some conclusions on both strength and size gains on this type of diet...