The Cause of Obesity

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    The Cause of Obesity


    Are obese people fat because they are lazy or because of their life style or their genes? Check the article: The Cause of Obesity

    Discuss.

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    What about us that started out lean, drank too much beer, got lazy, and was on a heavy medical steroid like prednisone for a long time? There is way too many factors, I think they all have some part to play though.

    Genetics
    Life Style
    Motivation
    Food Choices
    Stress
    Medical
    ...etc..etc.

    Don't think you can pin it on any one thing.
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    Hi,

    Are you saying everyone who are not obese are carefully watching their diet throughout their whole life? And when we say the genetic contribution of obesity is 70-80% (second to height), it is not a casual observation. These are done from the studies using MZ and DZ twins and adoption studies. Now we are identifying those genes responsible too. And the rest of the percentage is mainly attributed to non-shared environment; means they are seeking their own lifestyle and are not just influenced by their environment around (shared)

    Drugs such prednisone and anti-depression drugs are good example how your higher cognitive areas is dominating your biological drive to eat. Once you get off the drugs, you are back to where you are.

    There is no way to explain why someone is 350 lb and why another person is 150lb in the same toxic environment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anoopbal
    Hi,

    Are you saying everyone who are not obese are carefully watching their diet throughout their whole life? And when we say the genetic contribution of obesity is 70-80% (second to height), it is not a casual observation. These are done from the studies using MZ and DZ twins and adoption studies. Now we are identifying those genes responsible too. And the rest of the percentage is mainly attributed to non-shared environment; means they are seeking their own lifestyle and are not just influenced by their environment around (shared)

    Drugs such prednisone and anti-depression drugs are good example how your higher cognitive areas is dominating your biological drive to eat. Once you get off the drugs, you are back to where you are.

    There is no way to explain why someone is 350 lb and why another person is 150lb in the same toxic environment.
    Not saying its not a factor, but it's just that. A factor. Add in age, height, skeletal muscle and frame size, and etc... There is way to many factors to base it on one thing. Hormones can cause issues as well and they've shown why hormones are genetically pre set your environment, foods, and even the people around you can effect your hormones and change them from the norm. There is no clear way to pin point, only guides and flags that could suggest that this person would be more likely to be obese. It'll never be cut and dry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by D2footballjrc View Post
    Not saying its not a factor, but it's just that. A factor. Add in age, height, skeletal muscle and frame size, and etc... There is way to many factors to base it on one thing. Hormones can cause issues as well and they've shown why hormones are genetically pre set your environment, foods, and even the people around you can effect your hormones and change them from the norm. There is no clear way to pin point, only guides and flags that could suggest that this person would be more likely to be obese. It'll never be cut and dry.
    When we say heritability of BMI it includes height , skeletal frame, muscle and whatever. When someone says the contribution is 70-90%, it is more than 'A factor'. Numbers mean things.

    MZ twins are 100% genetically identical whereas DZ twins are 50%. We have studied over thousands of these twins all over the world over the years. There are heritable traits which have 10% heritability whereas others which are around 90%. Height is the most heritable. Weight is just slightly lower than that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by D2footballjrc View Post
    What about us that started out lean, drank too much beer, got lazy, and was on a heavy medical steroid like prednisone for a long time? There is way too many factors, I think they all have some part to play though.

    Genetics
    Life Style
    Motivation
    Food Choices
    Stress
    Medical
    ...etc..etc.

    Don't think you can pin it on any one thing.
    Agreed. This is the truth.
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    I can pin it to several things.

    Sugar
    Alcohol
    Genetics
    Laziness

    Just my .02c
    Mind and Muscle board representative.
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    In all seriousness,though, the paramount cause of obesity for 98+% of people is a lack of will to not be obese.

    all of these things - height,genes,hormones,etc, are all handicaps. for someone that WANTS more than anything to not be obese, they will do what it takes to make it so.

    just because it isn't as easy as someone else to be at a normal weight, does not mean isn't possible. you may need to work 10x as hard. you might need to eat less, you might need to supplement hormones,fat burners, or even change your environment-including job,friends, and the like.

    the bottom line is, for most obese people, being thin is an idea they like, but they don't want it. if they wanted it, they would do what it takes to get it.

    a clear example is someone dieting who is met with a decision to stay on their diet, or eat the brownies in the kitchen. they will do exactly what they want to do.

    someone sacrificing diet for a more stressful job is choosing the job over their physique. they are prioritizing. they only want it [ a healthy weight] if it means little to no sacrifice [inconvenience].
    For me, the action IS the juice.
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    In all seriousness, try losing 60-100 lbs and keeping it off for atleast 10 years. It is easy to say it is all about will power. And it is true that a minority can do it.

    People who always say obesity is lack of will power and such are the ones who are born lean.

    There is no way to explain why there are people who are 150lbs AND 350lbs in the very same obsegenic environment!
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    Quote Originally Posted by anoopbal View Post
    In all seriousness, try losing 60-100 lbs and keeping it off for atleast 10 years. It is easy to say it is all about will power. And it is true that a minority can do it.

    People who always say obesity is lack of will power and such are the ones who are born lean.

    There is no way to explain why there are people who are 150lbs AND 350lbs in the very same obsegenic environment!
    this is the counter-productive thought process that is responsible for the staggering obesity rate.

    what do you want? sympathy? empathy? the last i checked, high levels of these don't lower your risk for diabetes and heart disease.

    excuses don't change reality. it's not about aesthetics. obese people want others to 'understand' what they are up against and that's fine, but it's not helpful.

    similar to many things, the 'why' doesn't matter as much as the 'what'. it doesn't matter why you're obese. it matters that you are, and if you want to lower your risk for many diseases, you will find a way to change it. that's all there is.
    For me, the action IS the juice.
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    Did you read the Practical Considerations?

    And this s great article posted in New york times just yesterday: The Fat trap

    And here is the conclusion of this article. Here is your answer:

    So where does that leave a person who wants to lose a sizable amount of weight? Weight-loss scientists say they believe that once more people understand the genetic and biological challenges of keeping weight off, doctors and patients will approach weight loss more realistically and more compassionately. At the very least, the science may compel people who are already overweight to work harder to make sure they don’t put on additional pounds. Some people, upon learning how hard permanent weight loss can be, may give up entirely and return to overeating. Others may decide to accept themselves at their current weight and try to boost their fitness and overall health rather than changing the number on the scale.

    For me, understanding the science of weight loss has helped make sense of my own struggles to lose weight, as well as my mother’s endless cycle of dieting, weight gain and despair. I wish she were still here so I could persuade her to finally forgive herself for her dieting failures. While I do, ultimately, blame myself for allowing my weight to get out of control, it has been somewhat liberating to learn that there are factors other than my character at work when it comes to gaining and losing weight. And even though all the evidence suggests that it’s going to be very, very difficult for me to reduce my weight permanently, I’m surprisingly optimistic. I may not be ready to fight this battle this month or even this year. But at least I know what I’m up against.
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    Epigenetics play a role as well. Over eating has effects on DNA methylation that is passed down to off spring.

    I'll have to find the study citation...but, they did a study in scandanvia. They looked at the grand children of two generations in a village that has maintained the same way of life for the past couple decades. What they found was that the grand children of those who grew up in a time of abundance (i.e.: over ate during adolescence and puberty) had a significantly greater genetic risk of obesity than those whose grand parents grew up during lean times.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Epigenetics play a role as well. Over eating has effects on DNA methylation that is passed down to off spring.

    I'll have to find the study citation...but, they did a study in scandanvia. They looked at the grand children of two generations in a village that has maintained the same way of life for the past couple decades. What they found was that the grand children of those who grew up in a time of abundance (i.e.: over ate during adolescence and puberty) had a significantly greater genetic risk of obesity than those whose grand parents grew up during lean times.

    Br
    I have come across it. Another one is Diabetes in humans. The rest of the ones are n rodents. We know that there might be some epigenetic contributions in the intra-uterine environment too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anoopbal
    In all seriousness, try losing 60-100 lbs and keeping it off for atleast 10 years. It is easy to say it is all about will power. And it is true that a minority can do it.

    People who always say obesity is lack of will power and such are the ones who are born lean.

    There is no way to explain why there are people who are 150lbs AND 350lbs in the very same obsegenic environment!
    I lost 52 pounds and got shredded. It was all willpower, and I stay lean even in my offseason when I'm not competing.
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    Gaining weight and then losing it is not as the same as losing the same amount of weight.

    Try maintaining that 52 lbs for the rest of your life, even when you are not competing. My point is the majority cannot do it. Exceptions don't change the generality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anoopbal
    Gaining weight and then losing it is not as the same as losing the same amount of weight.

    Try maintaining that 52 lbs for the rest of your life, even when you are not competing. My point is the majority cannot do it. Exceptions don't change the generality.
    That's a good point. Personally I'm just insensitive, I was that chubby kid and ppl look at me now and can't believe I was ever fat. I honestly just feel its all laziness now besides the rare few that have some genetic disorder.
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    Would probably change the field of psycholgy: Fat people are lazy and incapable of changing behaviors and habits.

    It is different being 10-15 lbs overweight than 100-150lbs. I am just below being overweight and I have to gain around 50lbs to be obese. Not going to happen even If I I got 'free' food. I have trouble even maintaining the body weight I have. My point is that people who are 100-250 lbs overweight didn't get there by accident or laziness. If they are tryng to lose 100lbs, it s the same as me or you losing 100lbs and keepnt it off.

    Mind you, we know from twin studies under controlled conditions that people gain totally different weights for the same calorie intake and calori expenditure, as far 2-11lbs. The same goes for losing weight.
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    Then that just means they gotta eat less and train harder. Its a daily grind, but u do it only if it means enough to u.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Stri8ed
    Then that just means they gotta eat less and train harder. Its a daily grind, but u do it only if it means enough to u.
    Truer words have not been spoken, I think it's all about a mind state. The mind is a very powerful thing. If you wanna have something the first step is believing
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    Yeah, I'm sorry. Genetics may play a factor, but this is horseshet to the 20th degree. As everyone is practically saying in complete unanimity, if you want to lose weight, you'll lose weight.

    Over 66% of American's didn't spontaneously mutate their genes and become obese over a generation, sorry. Nor is this true in any other setting. South pacific islanders are highly reputable for being overweight. Have you seen what they eat? Case and point.

    Hey, maybe there are some people who have all the forces of nature set against them regarding losing weight. I can tell you probably how many people that is: about the same number as the number of midgets/short people/vertically challenged, whatever the PC term is for them. Very, very, very small. Apparently a user here is currently one (though I dont know if he's obese/morbidly obese per se). Again, supremely rare.

    Your argument is that the contribution of genes to obesity is substantial to the point actually of being a decisive factor in their body composition. I am saying, despite whatever laughable data you can conjure (controlled studies of twins and their eating habits? oh, you mean parents filling out surveys to ballpark their kids food intake in front of them and what they do hour to hour? LOL), reality shows us it's not true. You are very knowledgeable, anoop, but your conclusion seems ridiculous, and we just can't swallow this pill.
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    Very good thread.
    I think a lot of people pin pointed the factors.

    Lifestyle bottom line.
    People do what they want. With out great genetics eating on schedule the same lean foods, cardio, weights... It may not be easy for some, some people have different priorities, some are lazy, some simply just don't know what they are doing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonesBones40

    Truer words have not been spoken, I think it's all about a mind state. The mind is a very powerful thing. If you wanna have something the first step is believing
    I know agree, I stated this earlier too. When I'm really focused in a cut, it seems like the fat just melts off, and when I bulk my body just loves growing. Of course my diet is spot on though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Stri8ed View Post
    I know agree, I stated this earlier too. When I'm really focused in a cut, it seems like the fat just melts off, and when I bulk my body just loves growing. Of course my diet is spot on though.
    Yes, but you are also trained. Through your training (your hard work) you have stimulated a whole response of cellular adaptations that allows you to burn fat or build muscle at a greater rate.

    Imagine there are two large houses (the body) with an equal amount of rooms (lean tissue) and a gigantic wood pile outside (fat tissue).

    Via training, you have put more furnaces in each room (mitochondria to burn the wood) and have more workers (fat mobilzing and burning enzymes) to carry wood into these furnaces.

    Therefore, dropping fat will be easier for someone who is a consistent exerciser.

    We can take this analogy a step further, and imagine who genetics will determine how many furnaces are in each room, how efficiently we can build these furnaces, and how fast we can carry wood to them.

    Its a complicated scenario. I am not making excuses for obese or over weight people, but its also not as simple as "suck it up, exercise and eat less". Unfortunately, the choices we make in life, and worse yet, the choices are parents made in their lives before our conception and then in our child hood also play a large role in the obesity epidemic.

    Further, we can discuss the socioeconomic factors and the decisions of our wise leaders who think PE has little value in school.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED

    Yes, but you are also trained. Through your training (your hard work) you have stimulated a whole response of cellular adaptations that allows you to burn fat or build muscle at a greater rate.

    Imagine there are two large houses (the body) with an equal amount of rooms (lean tissue) and a gigantic wood pile outside (fat tissue).

    Via training, you have put more furnaces in each room (mitochondria to burn the wood) and have more workers (fat mobilzing and burning enzymes) to carry wood into these furnaces.

    Therefore, dropping fat will be easier for someone who is a consistent exerciser.

    We can take this analogy a step further, and imagine who genetics will determine how many furnaces are in each room, how efficiently we can build these furnaces, and how fast we can carry wood to them.

    Its a complicated scenario. I am not making excuses for obese or over weight people, but its also not as simple as "suck it up, exercise and eat less". Unfortunately, the choices we make in life, and worse yet, the choices are parents made in their lives before our conception and then in our child hood also play a large role in the obesity epidemic.

    Further, we can discuss the socioeconomic factors and the decisions of our wise leaders who think PE has little value in school.

    Br
    Great analogy bro. Like u said your environment plays a big role too, its hard to diet if your whole family eats poorly and your eating habits have been poor too.
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    Yes it's hard but thats no excuse. I'm sure for some it's harder than others but thats life
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    I believe that one of the reasons about being obese is genetic. I've seen a family of 5 and the only one among them who's not obese is the father. They don't eat too much as you would guess of any overweight. I sometimes eat more than they do, but I don't weigh like they do.
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    No doubt genetics play a role but people can overcome genetics to a degree. I'm sure genetics make it more difficult for some but that doesn't mean it's impossible
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsnake21
    Yes it's hard but thats no excuse. I'm sure for some it's harder than others but thats life
    Exactly that's life. Some will have it harder than others, but they can b successful in losing weight. I'm not saying they have to look like an athlete, but they can have a healthy weight. I totally believe u can keep weight off if u maintain a good diet and exercise regularly. A prime example is the show on MTV "I Used To Be Fat", all of those busted their ass and lost crazy amounts of weight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Stri8ed View Post
    Exactly that's life. Some will have it harder than others, but they can b successful in losing weight. I'm not saying they have to look like an athlete, but they can have a healthy weight. I totally believe u can keep weight off if u maintain a good diet and exercise regularly. A prime example is the show on MTV "I Used To Be Fat", all of those busted their ass and lost crazy amounts of weight.
    Good, and yet, horribly unhealthy example. I get extremely angry watching those episodes (and the only reason I'm watching them is because my wife is addicted to reality TV). In any case, losing 100 pounds in 3 months is not healthy, especially not in a developing teenager. I wonder how many girls get amenorreah due to it. Second, the training methods are just ill advised. There is no method - its some spike-haired douche bag throwing together whatever random exercises and yelling cliches so he can to cause exercise induced pain. I cringe when I watch the exercise form. There is no reason a 300 pound out of shape anyone should be doing high intensity plyometrics.

    It would be interesting to see a 3 or 5 year follow up to see how many have kept the weight off.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Yes, but you are also trained. Through your training (your hard work) you have stimulated a whole response of cellular adaptations that allows you to burn fat or build muscle at a greater rate.

    Imagine there are two large houses (the body) with an equal amount of rooms (lean tissue) and a gigantic wood pile outside (fat tissue).

    Via training, you have put more furnaces in each room (mitochondria to burn the wood) and have more workers (fat mobilzing and burning enzymes) to carry wood into these furnaces.

    Therefore, dropping fat will be easier for someone who is a consistent exerciser.

    We can take this analogy a step further, and imagine who genetics will determine how many furnaces are in each room, how efficiently we can build these furnaces, and how fast we can carry wood to them.

    Its a complicated scenario. I am not making excuses for obese or over weight people, but its also not as simple as "suck it up, exercise and eat less". Unfortunately, the choices we make in life, and worse yet, the choices are parents made in their lives before our conception and then in our child hood also play a large role in the obesity epidemic.

    Further, we can discuss the socioeconomic factors and the decisions of our wise leaders who think PE has little value in school.

    Br
    Very true. Also good analogy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED

    Good, and yet, horribly unhealthy example. I get extremely angry watching those episodes (and the only reason I'm watching them is because my wife is addicted to reality TV). In any case, losing 100 pounds in 3 months is not healthy, especially not in a developing teenager. I wonder how many girls get amenorreah due to it. Second, the training methods are just ill advised. There is no method - its some spike-haired douche bag throwing together whatever random exercises and yelling cliches so he can to cause exercise induced pain. I cringe when I watch the exercise form. There is no reason a 300 pound out of shape anyone should be doing high intensity plyometrics.

    It would be interesting to see a 3 or 5 year follow up to see how many have kept the weight off.

    Br
    That's also a great point. Its unhealthy but they did it. Although yes losing that much weight should b done in more like a year or longer. Lol that spiked hair guy is funny with some of the sh*t he says. I agree they should b trained differently though.
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    Obesity s all about calories in and out. Obese people are fat because thy eat too much and do less activity. Everyone knows that. The question is why are these people doing it in the first place? Or why are 70% of the unobese not doing the same? Is it lack of will power or laziness when both have access to the SAME toxic environment? Why is that?

    If it is not biology then it should be lack of will power or laziness. If that's the case, we have a bigger issue here. Obese people are lazy and are incapable of changing habits and behaviors. This is so earth shattering discovery that is worth the nobel prize int he field of psychology.

    And you just cannot compare your 10-15 lb loss or gain maintained for a few months and extrapolate it someone being 100-150lbs for the whole life. I have to put on 50llbs to be obese. I cannot do it even I have access to free food. And it's almost impossible to maintain it for the rest of my life! Is it possible, sure but not probable.

    And there are obvious genetic influence on how much you gain with the same amount of calories. An obese person might gain a lot more than what we might gain for the same amount of calories. The same for losing. There controlled studies which have shown this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anoopbal
    Obesity s all about calories in and out. Obese people are fat because thy eat too much and do less activity. Everyone knows that. The question is why are these people doing it in the first place? Or why are 70% of the unobese not doing the same? Is it lack of will power or laziness when both have access to the SAME toxic environment? Why is that?

    If it is not biology then it should be lack of will power or laziness. If that's the case, we have a bigger issue here. Obese people are lazy and are incapable of changing habits and behaviors. This is so earth shattering discovery that is worth the nobel prize int he field of psychology.

    And you just cannot compare your 10-15 lb loss or gain maintained for a few months and extrapolate it someone being 100-150lbs for the whole life. I have to put on 50llbs to be obese. I cannot do it even I have access to free food. And it's almost impossible to maintain it for the rest of my life! Is it possible, sure but not probable.

    And there are obvious genetic influence on how much you gain with the same amount of calories. An obese person might gain a lot more than what we might gain for the same amount of calories. The same for losing. There controlled studies which have shown this.
    What about people that are chubby/pudgy?
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    Quote Originally Posted by anoopbal View Post
    Obesity s all about calories in and out. Obese people are fat because thy eat too much and do less activity. Everyone knows that. The question is why are these people doing it in the first place? Or why are 70% of the unobese not doing the same? Is it lack of will power or laziness when both have access to the SAME toxic environment? Why is that?

    If it is not biology then it should be lack of will power or laziness. If that's the case, we have a bigger issue here. Obese people are lazy and are incapable of changing habits and behaviors. This is so earth shattering discovery that is worth the nobel prize int he field of psychology.

    And you just cannot compare your 10-15 lb loss or gain maintained for a few months and extrapolate it someone being 100-150lbs for the whole life. I have to put on 50llbs to be obese. I cannot do it even I have access to free food. And it's almost impossible to maintain it for the rest of my life! Is it possible, sure but not probable.

    And there are obvious genetic influence on how much you gain with the same amount of calories. An obese person might gain a lot more than what we might gain for the same amount of calories. The same for losing. There controlled studies which have shown this.
    Depression, medicines, hormones in food, fake sugar which makes people crave food.

    Depression is the only thing that could be remotely linked to genetics and even then they've shown not always genetics that trigger someone having depression.
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    Depression, medicines, hormones in food, fake sugar which makes people crave food.
    Great! So lean people are obviously immune to depression, hormones in food and fake sugar.
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    What about people that are chubby/pudgy?
    What about them? That is another example of the wide variety of fatness in the same environment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anoopbal View Post
    Great! So lean people are obviously immune to depression, hormones in food and fake sugar.
    No, but it comes down to the point.. Not everything is black and white how things effect them. Just like supplements not everything effects people the same way. The body and especially the brain is so radial and different that no matter what a study or results say about it, it'll never be 100% conclusive. You asked why some people have problems in the same environment. I was pointing out even more variables to that environment that go above and beyond genetics. Good job trying to shoe horn more excuses for people to blame on their parents. I guess now we can blame if we are fat or not on them as well. Screw having to be responsible for what we do to our bodies, it's genetics faults why even try! Lets just place all our blame on others and take no responsibility for what we put in our bodies or do with our bodies.
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    Good job trying to shoe horn more excuses for people to blame on their parents. I guess now we can blame if we are fat or not on them as well. Screw having to be responsible for what we do to our bodies, it's genetics faults why even try! Lets just place all our blame on others and take no responsibility for what we put in our bodies or do with our bodies.
    The reply for this is already posted: I am posting it again

    "So where does that leave a person who wants to lose a sizable amount of weight? Weight-loss scientists say they believe that once more people understand the genetic and biological challenges of keeping weight off, doctors and patients will approach weight loss more realistically and more compassionately. At the very least, the science may compel people who are already overweight to work harder to make sure they don’t put on additional pounds. Some people, upon learning how hard permanent weight loss can be, may give up entirely and return to overeating. Others may decide to accept themselves at their current weight and try to boost their fitness and overall health rather than changing the number on the scale.

    For me, understanding the science of weight loss has helped make sense of my own struggles to lose weight, as well as my mother’s endless cycle of dieting, weight gain and despair. I wish she were still here so I could persuade her to finally forgive herself for her dieting failures. While I do, ultimately, blame myself for allowing my weight to get out of control, it has been somewhat liberating to learn that there are factors other than my character at work when it comes to gaining and losing weight. And even though all the evidence suggests that it’s going to be very, very difficult for me to reduce my weight permanently, I’m surprisingly optimistic. I may not be ready to fight this battle this month or even this year. But at least I know what I’m up against.
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    Eating healthy and working out to feel better takes will power and is a lifestyle, not a one, two, or three year plan. It's a choice you make, people need to be on a routine and stick to it.
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