Big boy needs to strip out, here's the plan, plz review and critique.

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  1. The point of my original post was that dairy isn't always the enemy - Not that milk should be consumed with every meal.

    Not sure about what studies you are referring to that prove or imply milk ''isn't good for one's health'', but, you've piqued my interest.

    Outside of subjects that are lactose intolerant, what, if any, detriment has been proven to be related to consumption of milk?

    Is milk carcinogenic now? What constituent of milk has been proven at fault?
    For me, the action IS the juice.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by soontobbeast View Post
    The point of my original post was that dairy isn't always the enemy - Not that milk should be consumed with every meal.

    Not sure about what studies you are referring to that prove or imply milk ''isn't good for one's health'', but, you've piqued my interest.

    Outside of subjects that are lactose intolerant, what, if any, detriment has been proven to be related to consumption of milk?

    Is milk carcinogenic now? What constituent of milk has been proven at fault?
    dont want to detract from tamans log too much so I would rather not get into the discussion about it here but I can PM you some links if you like. It isnt necessairy the dairy per say but the process it goes through and the source it is coming from (i.e hormone injected cows, pasteurising, etc) I will have to look for them again but I can find them if your interested
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
    •   
       


  3. Josh pop me a pm as well if u do put it together. I've cut milk, but only for easier macro control, you got me curious.

    As for the supplement discussion, I've heard some good things about alpha-t2. I wish we didn't have the issue of Orr existing health conditions because I would love to recommed nothing more than ECA.

    I don't know anything about tropinol, other than it contains that controversial ingredient.

    Erase I have not run but alot of guys I trust claim it's the real deal. The combo with at-2 should be pretty good.

    I do agree with milas that getting caught up in all the latest supplements can lead to disappointment, but it seems you have jumps past the introductory stage that most go through an have learned to reasearch your products andnot rely on them alone for results.

    Workout looking good keep it going.
    Just inject.
    Facebook:
    www.facebook.com/heretostudy

  4. Quote Originally Posted by taman6886 View Post
    Thanks for the input Milas and Shock. If I am not mistaken, the Erase also reduces cortisol, does it not?
    That was just a supposition since it's a metabolite of a DHEA isomer (7-oxo-DHEA) that controls cortisol. There's no evidence that I've seen to indicate that it will control cortisol, especially at the dosage used in Erase. The product write up says:

    "There have not been any studies done on our particular 7-oxygenated compound on the 11-beta-HSD 1 enzyme, so its mechanism and affinity on the enzyme cannot be determined yet, but it is suggested that it is similar to the inhibition of it is closely related parent compound."


    For example, 7-oxo is dosed around 200mg, and that seems to have negligible effect partially due to bioavailability and partially liver metabolism. Another example for 11-oxo straight up is dosed 250mg at the lowest, and most like it at 750mg for cortisol control. Erase wouldn't be as strong as 11-oxo and hard to tell with 7-oxo, and the dose is way low for Erase to have that kind of effect. I really don't think Erase will do anything noticeable for cortisol, but I don't know if any new information came out on it like bloodwork or other studies.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    That was just a supposition since it's a metabolite of a DHEA isomer that controls cortisol. There's no evidence that I've seen to indicate that it will control cortisol, especially at the dosage used in Erase.

    For example, 11-oxo straight up is dosed 250mg at the lowest, and most like it at 750mg for cortisol control. Erase wouldn't be as strong as 11-oxo, and the dose is way low for Erase to have that kind of effect. I really don't think Erase will do anything noticeable for cortisol, but I don't know if any new information came out on it like bloodwork or other studies.
    While i do agree with your logic, the statement i bolded isn't entirely accurate.

    Patrick arnold himself says that most of the cortisol control happens at low dose.the recommended dose is 3 caps ( 225mg ) for cutting, which leads me to believe most of the cortisol control happens at 150-225mg.
    For me, the action IS the juice.
    •   
       


  6. Milk, it does a body good!

    I say keep the milk if you like it, just make sure you keep your macro count in place. That probably means sacrificing some other food during the day, but should be doable. Part of the whole thing is finding what's right for YOU which is not necessarily right for everyone else. If I said you'd lose lots of weight being Vegan, does that mean you'd become a Vegan?

    I'm trying to cut to low single digits, so I've cut most dairy out (kept greek yogurt for post workout). However, for a guy like you I don't see the need to cut out milk right now if you enjoy it. I personally prefer skim milk, but it's up to you and fitting the macros/calories into your overall diet. If your weight loss stalls, maybe consider making changes. If you find something that works, stick with it until it doesn't meet your goals anymore!

  7. "On any given day, there are more than 8 million cows on U.S. dairy farms—about 14 million fewer than there were in 1950. Yet milk production has continued to increase, from 116 billion pounds of milk per year in 1950 to 170 billion pounds in 2004.(6,7) Normally, these animals would produce only enough milk to meet the needs of their calves (around 16 pounds per day), but genetic manipulation, antibiotics, and hormones are used to force each cow to produce more than 18,000 pounds of milk each year (an average of 50 pounds per day)."

    "at least 5% of milk on shop shelves is reportedly contaminated with Mycobacterium avium subsp. paratuberculosis (MAP), a bacterium linked to Crohn's disease."

    "Milk contains Insulin Growth Factor (IGF). IGF-1 is very rich in milk. It's doubly rich in modern milk, partly because cows have been selectively reared to produce milk during pregnancy. This milk is especially rich in oestrogen. On top of that, in the US cows are treated with bovine growth hormone (BGH), which is a growth hormone capable of further increasing milk yield by about 12 per cent. All this means a cow's daily milk production has gone from 3 to 30 litres. Not surprisingly, this milk has two to five times the amount of IGF-1, while the beef from a BST treated animals has about double the IGF. Casein, the protein in milk, helps to carry the IGF into us. The more milk you drink the higher your blood level of IGF-1."

    "In addition to digestive problems, milk has been linked to ailments ranging from acne and weight gain to heart disease, cancer and diabetes. Plus, according to a Harvard Medical School analysis of the evidence, milk does not protect against osteoporosis. The study revealed that countries with low calcium intake (just 300 mg/day) tend to have a lower incidence of hip fractures (an indication of osteoporosis) than those with higher calcium consumption rates."

    "dairy can cause digestive disorders and allergies. Most adults are unable to properly digest milk sugar (lactose). The enzymes needed to digest lactose typically phase out of the human body around age seven, when they would no longer be needed in nature. Your body responds to undigested lactose with mucous and inflammation.

    Excess mucous in your system will clog up your digestive and respiratory tracts. The common results are frequent colds, asthma, allergies, sinus problems, tumors, cysts, constipation, colon trouble, Candidiasis, and excess weight. People suffering from these conditions often experience “miraculous” recovery when they eliminate dairy from their diet or find a healthy milk substitute.

    Eating dairy products also contributes to an acidic condition in your body. An acidic body is the perfect environment for a wide variety of diseases. "

    "The cows are milked throughout their pregnancies and pushed to their limit of milk production, stimulating the release of stress and sex hormones into the milk. The presence of these hormones has been linked to the early onset of puberty of young girls in industrialized countries as well as the development of hormone related cancers (breast, prostate and ovarian). This is true, albeit to a lesser extent, of commercial organic milk as well.

    Cows on factory farms are exposed to high levels of environmental toxins from their feed, water and surroundings. The cow’s body naturally protects itself by storing these toxins in its fatty tissues and milk. Consequently, high levels of concentrated dioxins, pesticides and other toxins wind up in the commercial milk supply. When tested, modern milk shows a 400% higher pesticide level than an equivalent sample of grains.

    In addition to this contamination, all commercial milk is pasteurized and homogenized. Pasteurization is designed to kill harmful bacteria. It also destroys nutrients and the vital enzymes needed to digest the milk.

    Homogenization breaks apart the fat molecules so the cream and milk no longer separate. This practice has serious health repercussions. Homogenization allows the enzyme Xanthine Oxidase (XO) to enter the bloodstream instead of being excreted as it normally would. This XO enzyme passes easily through the intestinal lining. There it acts as little knives inside your veins and arteries, cutting away at the artery walls. Your body makes cholesterol to repair these wounds. This process leads to atherosclerosis, high cholesterol and heart disease. These diseases are now being discovered even in the bodies of very young children and homogenized milk is suspected as the cause."
    BJJ = life

  8. Quote Originally Posted by soontobbeast View Post
    While i do agree with your logic, the statement i bolded isn't entirely accurate.

    Patrick arnold himself says that most of the cortisol control happens at low dose.the recommended dose is 3 caps ( 225mg ) for cutting, which leads me to believe most of the cortisol control happens at 150-225mg.
    Have you tried 11-oxo at that dose? For me, it does nothing. When I get above 500mg, it is a more pronounced effect. That goes for both TD and oral.

    While PA is the godfather of PHs, and I listen to what he says, I will take personal experience over recommended dosages. TBH I don't think I've ever fallen in the "recommended dosage" range on a bottle of any supplement.

  9. How about organic milk?

    See what you started Taman!

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    How about organic milk?

    See what you started Taman!
    LOL, yeah, I saw that. Honestly, I saw Anton's post and read the bovine growth hormone and immediately thought : TREN! Not likely, but shows were my mind is LMAO.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by AntonG42O View Post
    "On any given day, there are more than 8 million cows on U.S. dairy farms—about 14 million fewer than there were in 1950. Yet milk production has continued to increase, from 116 billion pounds of milk per year in 1950 to 170 billion pounds in 2004.(6,7) Normally, these animals would produce only enough milk to meet the needs of their calves (around 16 pounds per day), but genetic manipulation, antibiotics, and hormones are used to force each cow to produce more than 18,000 pounds of milk each year (an average of 50 pounds per day)."

    "at least 5% of milk on shop shelves is reportedly contaminated with Mycobacterium avium subsp. paratuberculosis (MAP), a bacterium linked to Crohn's disease."

    "Milk contains Insulin Growth Factor (IGF). IGF-1 is very rich in milk. It's doubly rich in modern milk, partly because cows have been selectively reared to produce milk during pregnancy. This milk is especially rich in oestrogen. On top of that, in the US cows are treated with bovine growth hormone (BGH), which is a growth hormone capable of further increasing milk yield by about 12 per cent. All this means a cow's daily milk production has gone from 3 to 30 litres. Not surprisingly, this milk has two to five times the amount of IGF-1, while the beef from a BST treated animals has about double the IGF. Casein, the protein in milk, helps to carry the IGF into us. The more milk you drink the higher your blood level of IGF-1."

    "In addition to digestive problems, milk has been linked to ailments ranging from acne and weight gain to heart disease, cancer and diabetes. Plus, according to a Harvard Medical School analysis of the evidence, milk does not protect against osteoporosis. The study revealed that countries with low calcium intake (just 300 mg/day) tend to have a lower incidence of hip fractures (an indication of osteoporosis) than those with higher calcium consumption rates."

    "dairy can cause digestive disorders and allergies. Most adults are unable to properly digest milk sugar (lactose). The enzymes needed to digest lactose typically phase out of the human body around age seven, when they would no longer be needed in nature. Your body responds to undigested lactose with mucous and inflammation.

    Excess mucous in your system will clog up your digestive and respiratory tracts. The common results are frequent colds, asthma, allergies, sinus problems, tumors, cysts, constipation, colon trouble, Candidiasis, and excess weight. People suffering from these conditions often experience “miraculous” recovery when they eliminate dairy from their diet or find a healthy milk substitute.

    Eating dairy products also contributes to an acidic condition in your body. An acidic body is the perfect environment for a wide variety of diseases. "

    "The cows are milked throughout their pregnancies and pushed to their limit of milk production, stimulating the release of stress and sex hormones into the milk. The presence of these hormones has been linked to the early onset of puberty of young girls in industrialized countries as well as the development of hormone related cancers (breast, prostate and ovarian). This is true, albeit to a lesser extent, of commercial organic milk as well.

    Cows on factory farms are exposed to high levels of environmental toxins from their feed, water and surroundings. The cow’s body naturally protects itself by storing these toxins in its fatty tissues and milk. Consequently, high levels of concentrated dioxins, pesticides and other toxins wind up in the commercial milk supply. When tested, modern milk shows a 400% higher pesticide level than an equivalent sample of grains.

    In addition to this contamination, all commercial milk is pasteurized and homogenized. Pasteurization is designed to kill harmful bacteria. It also destroys nutrients and the vital enzymes needed to digest the milk.

    Homogenization breaks apart the fat molecules so the cream and milk no longer separate. This practice has serious health repercussions. Homogenization allows the enzyme Xanthine Oxidase (XO) to enter the bloodstream instead of being excreted as it normally would. This XO enzyme passes easily through the intestinal lining. There it acts as little knives inside your veins and arteries, cutting away at the artery walls. Your body makes cholesterol to repair these wounds. This process leads to atherosclerosis, high cholesterol and heart disease. These diseases are now being discovered even in the bodies of very young children and homogenized milk is suspected as the cause."
    I knew you would come through! Less work for me trying to dig up info.. I think I have a couple actual studies bookmarked on my PC. When I get home from work I'll add it in
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
  12. Thumbs up


    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Milk, it does a body good!

    I say keep the milk if you like it, just make sure you keep your macro count in place. That probably means sacrificing some other food during the day, but should be doable. Part of the whole thing is finding what's right for YOU which is not necessarily right for everyone else. If I said you'd lose lots of weight being Vegan, does that mean you'd become a Vegan?

    I'm trying to cut to low single digits, so I've cut most dairy out (kept greek yogurt for post workout). However, for a guy like you I don't see the need to cut out milk right now if you enjoy it. I personally prefer skim milk, but it's up to you and fitting the macros/calories into your overall diet. If your weight loss stalls, maybe consider making changes. If you find something that works, stick with it until it doesn't meet your goals anymore!
    Agree 100% with the bolded portion
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    How about organic milk?

    See what you started Taman!
    Milk really is sort of a iffy topic that's why I originally said it's debatable. A big part of the reasoning why milk is bad is based on the milk that is in your local grocery store. There are problems that range from the source of the milk to the process it goes to before it gets to your grocers fridge. So one can argue: what about free range raw milk then? This is where it gets tricky.. I haven't really seen much info on why this is bad for you other than the argument that milk is a relatively new food to us and that our bodies haven't fully adjusted to the consumption of it, but I think alot of that research is based on theories and isn't too concrete.

    For the purpose of taman, if his goal is loosing weight then he will prolly be better off without it, for the purpose of health.. That will have to be a personal decision he will have to make after weighing the info
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  14. i know for myself i felt horrible when i used to drink milk. constantly bloated, skin issues, sinus clogging.
    BJJ = life

  15. Quote Originally Posted by AntonG42O View Post
    i know for myself i felt horrible when i used to drink milk. constantly bloated, skin issues, sinus clogging.
    Never had that issue.

    But in actuality, if I am going to be more carb conscious, it does make sense to not add an extra 11 grams of simple carbs every time I have a protein shake. I do really not like Myofusion mixed with just water, so this morning I also tossed in a tbsp of extra light olive oil to see what that was like (when mixed with water). Actually seemed to make it a bit better. If it puts more healthy fats into my diet to burn while cutting carbs and makes the stuff more pleasant to drink, why not? At this point, about 90% of my dietary fat is from olive oil, flax seed/fish oil/Omega 3's, peanuts and peanut butter with a bit coming from my meats or cottage cheese.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by taman6886 View Post
    Never had that issue.

    But in actuality, if I am going to be more carb conscious, it does make sense to not add an extra 11 grams of simple carbs every time I have a protein shake. I do really not like Myofusion mixed with just water, so this morning I also tossed in a tbsp of extra light olive oil to see what that was like (when mixed with water). Actually seemed to make it a bit better. If it puts more healthy fats into my diet to burn while cutting carbs and makes the stuff more pleasant to drink, why not? At this point, about 90% of my dietary fat is from olive oil, flax seed/fish oil/Omega 3's, peanuts and peanut butter with a bit coming from my meats or cottage cheese.
    Sounds like a plan
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  17. Here's you daily dose of skittles.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by bluehealer View Post
    Here's you daily dose of skittles.
    NOM NOM!

  19. Quote Originally Posted by taman6886 View Post
    Never had that issue.

    But in actuality, if I am going to be more carb conscious, it does make sense to not add an extra 11 grams of simple carbs every time I have a protein shake. I do really not like Myofusion mixed with just water, so this morning I also tossed in a tbsp of extra light olive oil to see what that was like (when mixed with water). Actually seemed to make it a bit better. If it puts more healthy fats into my diet to burn while cutting carbs and makes the stuff more pleasant to drink, why not? At this point, about 90% of my dietary fat is from olive oil, flax seed/fish oil/Omega 3's, peanuts and peanut butter with a bit coming from my meats or cottage cheese.
    peanuts are too high in omega 6 and no omega3. almonds are a more favorable nut. you should replace peanuts and peanut butter with whole eggs
    BJJ = life

  20. Quote Originally Posted by AntonG42O View Post
    peanuts are too high in omega 6 and no omega3. almonds are a more favorable nut. you should replace peanuts and peanut butter with whole eggs


    Oh crap, I forgot the eggs. Thanks Anton, probably put down about 6-12 boiled eggs weekly. I don't usually get almonds because they have a lower protein content/cal compared to peanuts and peanuts are cheap and easy to get. Usually have a bag between breakfast and lunch and a second between lunch and the gym if I don't have a protein bar (which I have been forgoing due to carb content.)

  21. Quote Originally Posted by taman6886 View Post
    Oh crap, I forgot the eggs. Thanks Anton, probably put down about 6-12 boiled eggs weekly. I don't usually get almonds because they have a lower protein content/cal compared to peanuts and peanuts are cheap and easy to get. Usually have a bag between breakfast and lunch and a second between lunch and the gym if I don't have a protein bar (which I have been forgoing due to carb content.)
    Change that to 6-12 daily.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by bluehealer View Post
    Change that to 6-12 daily.
    lol i was just about to say, i put down close to 12 hardboiled in one sitting sometimes. i usually average 14-18 eggs a day
    BJJ = life

  23. Quote Originally Posted by AntonG42O View Post
    lol i was just about to say, i put down close to 12 hardboiled in one sitting sometimes. i usually average 14-18 eggs a day
    I had to slack off a bit over the winter but the hens are starting to lay more as spring rolls in so I'll be bumping it back up. My bud brought me 2 dozen yesterday. I have my eggs hand delivered to work. The runner here has free range chickens.
    Taste the rainbow.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by bluehealer View Post
    Change that to 6-12 daily.
    420-840 calories?

    Quote Originally Posted by AntonG42O View Post
    lol i was just about to say, i put down close to 12 hardboiled in one sitting sometimes. i usually average 14-18 eggs a day
    980-1260 calories?

    What else are you guys eating? That seems REALLY high unless you're talking about egg whites with 1-2 yolks.

    I can understand 10-20 egg whites, but whole eggs seems high...

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    420-840 calories?



    980-1260 calories?

    What else are you guys eating? That seems REALLY high unless you're talking about egg whites with 1-2 yolks.

    I can understand 10-20 egg whites, but whole eggs seems high...
    I'll through out the white before the yoke, it's the best part of the egg.

    I eat a lot of fish, some blsl chicken breast, and tons of veggies and fruit.
    Taste the rainbow.
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