Big boy needs to strip out, here's the plan, plz review and critique.

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    Good progress here Taman!

    Keen ~ What is the basic principle of that diet?
    Insulin control pretty much. Limits starchy carbs (rice, potatoes, etc) to 60g post workout or on off days in the morning with 2 servings of fruit and 3 servings of green veggies. Every meal contains healthy protein and fat with one cheat meal a week.

    Scivation has a couple of good books on their site and they are all free, give them a read sometime John. Cut Diet is a good read (pretty much no carb with a refeed meal every 3 days)
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates


  2. Thanks Josh
    Just inject.
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  3. actually for fat loss purposes you should keep even the post WO carbs to a minimum. if you arent trying to put on mass then there is no point in jacking your insulin and unless you are training twice a day, you dont need to do a whole lot to replenish glycogen. a couple of medium sized bananas post workout will suffice. bananas have an even 50/50 ratio of glucose to fructose, satisfying both liver and muscle glycogen stores.

    other than that you are good. cut out all starches (pasta/bread/bagels) and anything else highly glycemic. carbohydrate restriction over time will lead to fat loss and desired body composition.
    BJJ = life

  4. My Post W/O is generally 2 scoops of myofusion in 8oz 2% milk with about 2.5-5g of Glutamine (58 protein, 21 carbs, 10 or so fat grams). Not exactly an insulin spiker, but enough to keep my blood glucose from tanking after a workout. Have it pre-mixed and suck it down (and about 16oz of water) on my 45 minute ride home. Although the overall goal is fat loss, I still want to keep the good mass I got and see a few strength gains here and there as this it what keeps me moving.

    This may sound a bit crazy, but have seen an acceleration in fat burning just since making the carb reduction tweak. I am not gonna count it till my next official weigh in (Tuesday mornings) but this AM the scale was at 284.4, almost 3 lbs down from just a day ago.
    Last edited by taman6886; 03-09-2011 at 03:29 PM. Reason: Addendum

  5. you will make much faster progress if you ditch the milk, especially 2%.

    exactly! carb restriction FTW
    BJJ = life

  6. Quote Originally Posted by AntonG42O View Post
    actually for fat loss purposes you should keep even the post WO carbs to a minimum. if you arent trying to put on mass then there is no point in jacking your insulin and unless you are training twice a day, you dont need to do a whole lot to replenish glycogen. a couple of medium sized bananas post workout will suffice. bananas have an even 50/50 ratio of glucose to fructose, satisfying both liver and muscle glycogen stores.

    other than that you are good. cut out all starches (pasta/bread/bagels) and anything else highly glycemic. carbohydrate restriction over time will lead to fat loss and desired body composition.
    Right on!

    Quote Originally Posted by taman6886 View Post
    My Post W/O is generally 2 scoops of myofusion in 8oz 2% milk with about 2.5-5g of Glutamine (58 protein, 21 carbs, 10 or so fat grams). Not exactly an insulin spiker, but enough to keep my blood glucose from tanking after a workout. Have it pre-mixed and suck it down (and about 16oz of water) on my 45 minute ride home. Although the overall goal is fat loss, I still want to keep the good mass I got and see a few strength gains here and there as this it what keeps me moving.

    This may sound a bit crazy, but have seen an acceleration in fat burning just since making the carb reduction tweak. I am not gonna count it till my next official weigh in (Tuesday mornings) but this AM the scale was at 284.4, almost 3 lbs down from just a day ago.
    BCAAs are great for maintaing muscle mass while in a calorie deficit. I would invest in some or at the very least some Leucine. I use them all around my workout from pre, intra, and post.

    As for the fat loss you will see some immeadiate results when cutting carbs BUT alot of it is going to be water. I forget the exact numbers but I think it was for every gram of carbs you eat your body stores 2-3 grams of water. I am only saying this because at first the results will come fast but once you transition it will slow up a bit BUT it will remain pretty constant
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  7. ^^^ That and depleted glycogen stores.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by AntonG42O View Post
    you will make much faster progress if you ditch the milk, especially 2%.

    exactly! carb restriction FTW
    So are you saying go to skim or mix the stuff in water? (Which tastes nasty BTW)

  9. Today's dietary numbers: 2596 cals (146 carb, 199 pro, 134 fats) with an estimated output of 3693 for deficit 1165.

  10. So let me run something by you guys. If you have been paying attention, you will note that last thursday I started on Alpha T-2. I plan on deloading by taking a week of just cardio and hot tub/sauna next week to let my shoulder and elbows heal a bit more (bursistis and tendonitis). The following week, when I return to the iron, I plan on continuing to run the Alpha T-2 and stack it with a months worth of Erase (have 2 bottles of the A T2) and Tropinol (Which I know has gotten mixed reviews.) I am also starting on a new batch of Lit up (Lifting days only) tonight (have tried it before but was fighting the flu so not sure how well it energized my work out, switching to this from Super Pump 250.)

    Am I over killing here? SHould I just run the Erase and AT2 and save the Tropinol for another time. (BTW, I know that diet and a solid, ass busting routine is my foundation and 99% of my results, not counting on this stuff to do a miracle.)

    Any thoughts?
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  11. Keep up the good work Taman! Your body is under a great deal of stress are you taking a cortisol blocker? Sorry if you mentioned it I am not familiar with all the supplements you listed.

  12. First, I am so glad you have a realistic view on how marginal of an effect supplements have! It has taken me years and thousands of dollars to figure it out! Kudos to you!

    Erase is an aromatase inhibitor, and Tropinol is a direct test booster, as is Lit-Up with the D-Aspartic Acid, so they should complement each other. I never expect much from test boosters other than a libido/mood improvement, and post cycle recovery assistance. Erase will do most of the leaning out effect, but the other 2 will add a little bit to it and also give a good libido/mood/aggression boost.

    Alpha-T2 is a fat burner, targeting thyroid and alpha-2 receptor agonist (i.e., prevents fat sparing). It goes well with Erase since Erase will reduce estrogen (fat storing and bloat reduction), and Alpha-T2 will free up fat and metabolize it.

    People run some crazy stacks of stuff on here (myself included), so it's totally up to you. I'm trying to break my supplement habit because I am finally realizing how marginal the effects of these supplements are outside staples like multi-vitamin, fishoil and protein.

    I say smoke 'em if you got 'em, but be slow to refill your stash. You've got the right mindset, just go with it!

  13. Thanks for the input Milas and Shock. If I am not mistaken, the Erase also reduces cortisol, does it not?

  14. Quote Originally Posted by taman6886 View Post
    So are you saying go to skim or mix the stuff in water? (Which tastes nasty BTW)
    yeah brother mix your whey with water. milk is not a good thing to drink, especially if you are trying to lose weight.
    BJJ = life

  15. Quote Originally Posted by AntonG42O View Post
    yeah brother mix your whey with water. milk is not a good thing to drink, especially if you are trying to lose weight.
    Ok, will give this a shot. Not trying to be argumentative, but my only concern is having my blood sugars go sub 50 after working out with out the lactose. I do not take insulin, so it can't reach lethal levels of hypoglycemia, but the glipizide and Januvia I take can lead to mild hypoglycemia which is results in becoming very shaky, irritable and anxious. As long as this does not hit me, I will follow this recommendation, never hurts to try it.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by taman6886 View Post
    Ok, will give this a shot. Not trying to be argumentative, but my only concern is having my blood sugars go sub 50 after working out with out the lactose. I do not take insulin, so it can't reach lethal levels of hypoglycemia, but the glipizide and Januvia I take can lead to mild hypoglycemia which is results in becoming very shaky, irritable and anxious. As long as this does not hit me, I will follow this recommendation, never hurts to try it.
    what about a couple of bananas? would that do the trick in terms of blood sugar? im not exactly sure how all that stuff works but i think that if you eat 2 bananas your blood sugar wont be too low.
    BJJ = life

  17. Quote Originally Posted by AntonG42O View Post
    what about a couple of bananas? would that do the trick in terms of blood sugar? im not exactly sure how all that stuff works but i think that if you eat 2 bananas your blood sugar wont be too low.
    Yeah, I am sure that would work fine for blood glucose levels.

  18. Mar 10, 2011
    Name: Day 3, wk 8
    Start Time: 05:05 PM
    End Time: 06:10 PM
    Duration: 01:05
    Location:
    Mood: Normal - Not Great But Not Bad
    Notes: Started with 3 minute warm up, got a sweat rolling.


    # Exercise Name Set Lbs. Reps

    1 Decline Barbell Bench Press
    #1 180 8
    #2 200 8
    #3 210 6
    On Smith Machine, noted weights are plates only.

    2 Incline Dumbbell Press
    #1 170 9
    #2 170 7
    Weight is dumbell weight X 2

    3 Assisted Pull Up
    #1 215 8
    #2 230 8
    #3 240 7
    #4 245 4
    Noted weight is BW+ clothes (estimated 290) minus assist weight.

    4 Close-Grip Bench Press
    #1 195 10
    #2 195 7
    #3 195 8
    Had a spotter for last set

    5 Barbell Curl
    #1 90 10
    #2 90 7
    Set 2 was with closer grip
    6 Standing One-Arm Dumbbell Curl Over Incline Bench
    #1 30 10
    #2 30 10
    Basically, one armed DB curls off of a preacher curl bench.

    Set one is right, set 2 is left

    Capped the night off with 8X30/30 HIIT Cycles at 80%/60% resistance and a 5 minute coast for a total of 120 cals burned.

    Today's dietary info: 2871 cals (150 carbs, 265 protein, 144 fats) with an estimated output of 4496 for a deficit of 1625.
    __________________

  19. Quote Originally Posted by AntonG42O View Post
    yeah brother mix your whey with water. milk is not a good thing to drink, especially if you are trying to lose weight.

    not busting balls but you can't really say that 'as a matter of fact'. dairy hurts some people's fatloss but plenty studies show dairy helps fatloss.

    I use water with my whey just cause the nutrapro mixes alot better with water and its not as thick .
    For me, the action IS the juice.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by soontobbeast View Post
    not busting balls but you can't really say that 'as a matter of fact'.

    plenty studies show dairy helps fatloss.


    I use water with my whey just cause the nutrapro mixes alot better with water and its not as thick .
    the use of milk is debateable.. they are also plenty of studies that show milk is not good for ones health. Its one of those things that you just got to go with your gut and how to react to it.. but you cant really say difinetely either way
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  21. The point of my original post was that dairy isn't always the enemy - Not that milk should be consumed with every meal.

    Not sure about what studies you are referring to that prove or imply milk ''isn't good for one's health'', but, you've piqued my interest.

    Outside of subjects that are lactose intolerant, what, if any, detriment has been proven to be related to consumption of milk?

    Is milk carcinogenic now? What constituent of milk has been proven at fault?
    For me, the action IS the juice.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by soontobbeast View Post
    The point of my original post was that dairy isn't always the enemy - Not that milk should be consumed with every meal.

    Not sure about what studies you are referring to that prove or imply milk ''isn't good for one's health'', but, you've piqued my interest.

    Outside of subjects that are lactose intolerant, what, if any, detriment has been proven to be related to consumption of milk?

    Is milk carcinogenic now? What constituent of milk has been proven at fault?
    dont want to detract from tamans log too much so I would rather not get into the discussion about it here but I can PM you some links if you like. It isnt necessairy the dairy per say but the process it goes through and the source it is coming from (i.e hormone injected cows, pasteurising, etc) I will have to look for them again but I can find them if your interested
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  23. Josh pop me a pm as well if u do put it together. I've cut milk, but only for easier macro control, you got me curious.

    As for the supplement discussion, I've heard some good things about alpha-t2. I wish we didn't have the issue of Orr existing health conditions because I would love to recommed nothing more than ECA.

    I don't know anything about tropinol, other than it contains that controversial ingredient.

    Erase I have not run but alot of guys I trust claim it's the real deal. The combo with at-2 should be pretty good.

    I do agree with milas that getting caught up in all the latest supplements can lead to disappointment, but it seems you have jumps past the introductory stage that most go through an have learned to reasearch your products andnot rely on them alone for results.

    Workout looking good keep it going.
    Just inject.
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by taman6886 View Post
    Thanks for the input Milas and Shock. If I am not mistaken, the Erase also reduces cortisol, does it not?
    That was just a supposition since it's a metabolite of a DHEA isomer (7-oxo-DHEA) that controls cortisol. There's no evidence that I've seen to indicate that it will control cortisol, especially at the dosage used in Erase. The product write up says:

    "There have not been any studies done on our particular 7-oxygenated compound on the 11-beta-HSD 1 enzyme, so its mechanism and affinity on the enzyme cannot be determined yet, but it is suggested that it is similar to the inhibition of it is closely related parent compound."


    For example, 7-oxo is dosed around 200mg, and that seems to have negligible effect partially due to bioavailability and partially liver metabolism. Another example for 11-oxo straight up is dosed 250mg at the lowest, and most like it at 750mg for cortisol control. Erase wouldn't be as strong as 11-oxo and hard to tell with 7-oxo, and the dose is way low for Erase to have that kind of effect. I really don't think Erase will do anything noticeable for cortisol, but I don't know if any new information came out on it like bloodwork or other studies.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    That was just a supposition since it's a metabolite of a DHEA isomer that controls cortisol. There's no evidence that I've seen to indicate that it will control cortisol, especially at the dosage used in Erase.

    For example, 11-oxo straight up is dosed 250mg at the lowest, and most like it at 750mg for cortisol control. Erase wouldn't be as strong as 11-oxo, and the dose is way low for Erase to have that kind of effect. I really don't think Erase will do anything noticeable for cortisol, but I don't know if any new information came out on it like bloodwork or other studies.
    While i do agree with your logic, the statement i bolded isn't entirely accurate.

    Patrick arnold himself says that most of the cortisol control happens at low dose.the recommended dose is 3 caps ( 225mg ) for cutting, which leads me to believe most of the cortisol control happens at 150-225mg.
    For me, the action IS the juice.

  26. Milk, it does a body good!

    I say keep the milk if you like it, just make sure you keep your macro count in place. That probably means sacrificing some other food during the day, but should be doable. Part of the whole thing is finding what's right for YOU which is not necessarily right for everyone else. If I said you'd lose lots of weight being Vegan, does that mean you'd become a Vegan?

    I'm trying to cut to low single digits, so I've cut most dairy out (kept greek yogurt for post workout). However, for a guy like you I don't see the need to cut out milk right now if you enjoy it. I personally prefer skim milk, but it's up to you and fitting the macros/calories into your overall diet. If your weight loss stalls, maybe consider making changes. If you find something that works, stick with it until it doesn't meet your goals anymore!

  27. "On any given day, there are more than 8 million cows on U.S. dairy farms—about 14 million fewer than there were in 1950. Yet milk production has continued to increase, from 116 billion pounds of milk per year in 1950 to 170 billion pounds in 2004.(6,7) Normally, these animals would produce only enough milk to meet the needs of their calves (around 16 pounds per day), but genetic manipulation, antibiotics, and hormones are used to force each cow to produce more than 18,000 pounds of milk each year (an average of 50 pounds per day)."

    "at least 5% of milk on shop shelves is reportedly contaminated with Mycobacterium avium subsp. paratuberculosis (MAP), a bacterium linked to Crohn's disease."

    "Milk contains Insulin Growth Factor (IGF). IGF-1 is very rich in milk. It's doubly rich in modern milk, partly because cows have been selectively reared to produce milk during pregnancy. This milk is especially rich in oestrogen. On top of that, in the US cows are treated with bovine growth hormone (BGH), which is a growth hormone capable of further increasing milk yield by about 12 per cent. All this means a cow's daily milk production has gone from 3 to 30 litres. Not surprisingly, this milk has two to five times the amount of IGF-1, while the beef from a BST treated animals has about double the IGF. Casein, the protein in milk, helps to carry the IGF into us. The more milk you drink the higher your blood level of IGF-1."

    "In addition to digestive problems, milk has been linked to ailments ranging from acne and weight gain to heart disease, cancer and diabetes. Plus, according to a Harvard Medical School analysis of the evidence, milk does not protect against osteoporosis. The study revealed that countries with low calcium intake (just 300 mg/day) tend to have a lower incidence of hip fractures (an indication of osteoporosis) than those with higher calcium consumption rates."

    "dairy can cause digestive disorders and allergies. Most adults are unable to properly digest milk sugar (lactose). The enzymes needed to digest lactose typically phase out of the human body around age seven, when they would no longer be needed in nature. Your body responds to undigested lactose with mucous and inflammation.

    Excess mucous in your system will clog up your digestive and respiratory tracts. The common results are frequent colds, asthma, allergies, sinus problems, tumors, cysts, constipation, colon trouble, Candidiasis, and excess weight. People suffering from these conditions often experience “miraculous” recovery when they eliminate dairy from their diet or find a healthy milk substitute.

    Eating dairy products also contributes to an acidic condition in your body. An acidic body is the perfect environment for a wide variety of diseases. "

    "The cows are milked throughout their pregnancies and pushed to their limit of milk production, stimulating the release of stress and sex hormones into the milk. The presence of these hormones has been linked to the early onset of puberty of young girls in industrialized countries as well as the development of hormone related cancers (breast, prostate and ovarian). This is true, albeit to a lesser extent, of commercial organic milk as well.

    Cows on factory farms are exposed to high levels of environmental toxins from their feed, water and surroundings. The cow’s body naturally protects itself by storing these toxins in its fatty tissues and milk. Consequently, high levels of concentrated dioxins, pesticides and other toxins wind up in the commercial milk supply. When tested, modern milk shows a 400% higher pesticide level than an equivalent sample of grains.

    In addition to this contamination, all commercial milk is pasteurized and homogenized. Pasteurization is designed to kill harmful bacteria. It also destroys nutrients and the vital enzymes needed to digest the milk.

    Homogenization breaks apart the fat molecules so the cream and milk no longer separate. This practice has serious health repercussions. Homogenization allows the enzyme Xanthine Oxidase (XO) to enter the bloodstream instead of being excreted as it normally would. This XO enzyme passes easily through the intestinal lining. There it acts as little knives inside your veins and arteries, cutting away at the artery walls. Your body makes cholesterol to repair these wounds. This process leads to atherosclerosis, high cholesterol and heart disease. These diseases are now being discovered even in the bodies of very young children and homogenized milk is suspected as the cause."
    BJJ = life

  28. Quote Originally Posted by soontobbeast View Post
    While i do agree with your logic, the statement i bolded isn't entirely accurate.

    Patrick arnold himself says that most of the cortisol control happens at low dose.the recommended dose is 3 caps ( 225mg ) for cutting, which leads me to believe most of the cortisol control happens at 150-225mg.
    Have you tried 11-oxo at that dose? For me, it does nothing. When I get above 500mg, it is a more pronounced effect. That goes for both TD and oral.

    While PA is the godfather of PHs, and I listen to what he says, I will take personal experience over recommended dosages. TBH I don't think I've ever fallen in the "recommended dosage" range on a bottle of any supplement.

  29. How about organic milk?

    See what you started Taman!

  30. Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    How about organic milk?

    See what you started Taman!
    LOL, yeah, I saw that. Honestly, I saw Anton's post and read the bovine growth hormone and immediately thought : TREN! Not likely, but shows were my mind is LMAO.
  

  
 

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