CKD and cardio

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  1. Yes, it is better. I don't know why people would do fasted cardio on a CKD diet.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFury View Post
    To Jester, I'm not going to do HIIT before/after my workout, but on my days off in the morning(So there would be around 10 hours from workout to HIIT)

    I am not thinking doing HIIT is going to be catabolic in itself(Not done around lifting). I think the question now is if I should do it fasted or not. If HIIT was catabolic while on CKD, then wouldn't lifting be? Because if it is HIIT(A good, hard workout is, like you said, HIIT,in my oppinion). That's just what I'm kinda gettin from this whole thing.
    really man, i cant belive you didnt understand what i wrote:

    if you are doing TWO times HIIT while cutting. then its bad. if you are doing HIIT on a rest day and lifting on another day, while cutting, i think its okay. thats why i wrote HIIT before/after lifting.

    everyone knows that gaining muscle while cutting is hard. you might even lose muscle if you're not stressing the details. so doing two HIIT exercises that probably span around 2hours is definetly gonna do you a catabolic favour.

    i belive that HIIT on cutting and fasted is the same ****. okay you are on maintence, and your macro are correct. but you just had an 8hours sleep. and you probably didnt eat for 9hours. the catabolic effects have already kicked (unless you woke up in the middle of the night and chewed on some casein product). and then not eating breakfast and doing HIIT is just gonna rip your muscle apart. okay, you gonna eat 50p/50c/20f after the fasted HIIT? so what, the damage is already done. your muscle not gonna grow because you sprint. lifting grows your muscle.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFury View Post
    To Jester, I'm not going to do HIIT before/after my workout, but on my days off in the morning(So there would be around 10 hours from workout to HIIT)

    I am not thinking doing HIIT is going to be catabolic in itself(Not done around lifting). I think the question now is if I should do it fasted or not. If HIIT was catabolic while on CKD, then wouldn't lifting be? Because if it is HIIT(A good, hard workout is, like you said, HIIT,in my oppinion). That's just what I'm kinda gettin from this whole thing.
    Don't do it fasted. The major effects from HIIT arise after performing it and not during it. On CKD your body uses fat as it's primary source of fuel. The usual argument towards fasted cardio is that it uses more fat because you are in a "starved" state so the fasted cardio would use fat and not glycogen/glucose. On CKD the main benefit of fasted cardio is irrelevant, if you use your glycogen stores up then thats more room for compensation during carb ups, which could mean a lower chance for calorie runover into fat. If fasted cardio could use more fat for energy than glucose then it really doesn't matter because fat on CKD is the main source of energy used.

  4. So gentleman, to sum it up in one sentence.

    Do HIIT with some food in you so you don't catabolise yourself to death.

    Am i right? I went from understanding, to being confused, to thinking that I understand again :P

  5. Lol, ya, that's how I was, now I think I understand it again >_< I'm going to eat my eggs/bacon/cheese at around 5:10, then do HIT around 6 or 6:10 for about 15 mins. Should I have my shake on the way to school after I do HIIT? Or just eat my norm mid morning snack? I usually just grab some almonds in a baggy, and eat em at school between classes.

    Sorry for misunderstandin' your post BTW Jester, was still confused about the ones above yours, lol.
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  6. You could have a shake after you do it, I don't see why not.

  7. does it fit in with your caloric needs?

    One shake is often around 150cals

  8. My shake is around 130 I think, and has 4g sugar, so that's kinda bleh. Sometimes I can't get up to what I need to eat for certain meals, so the calories from it are alright. I try to have 30-40g of fat per meal, then 10 for 2 snacks. I am supposed to have around 135 or 138, so I will randomly snack on bacon or something to give me a little boost, because I rarely hit the 138 or so >_<

  9. Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFury View Post
    My shake is around 130 I think, and has 4g sugar, so that's kinda bleh. Sometimes I can't get up to what I need to eat for certain meals, so the calories from it are alright. I try to have 30-40g of fat per meal, then 10 for 2 snacks. I am supposed to have around 135 or 138, so I will randomly snack on bacon or something to give me a little boost, because I rarely hit the 138 or so >_<
    if you're under your calorie limit for the day then you better be drinking those shakes!

  10. Will do

    To doublecheck, I can eat about an hour before HIIT in the mornings right? And then shake directly after.

  11. It's not mandatory, but it's preferable, and from what i've understood in this thread - recommended

  12. What does your shake look like anyways? I hope you're adding some fats into it to fit into the diet guidelines. Extra virgin olive oil is your friend in this diet, believe me. Add a bit to your shake and you're good to do.

    Make sure you're eating fatty fish and/or taking fish oil caps as well.

  13. Gonna start taking fish oil caps again, stopped once I started on the CKD. I have tuna, and some times talapia. I'll add the oil into the shake too, didn't even think about that Shake is 120 cal, 4g carbs, 1 sugar, 24g protein. (Gold Standard 100% Whey) Is that alright, or should I switch to a dif shake? I love the taste of it, and used to do Muscle Milk, which wasn't helping much and had a crapload of sugar. I'm about half way through this tub

    EDIT: Basketball will be starting soon, and practice will be from 3 PM - 5 PM, should I try to have anything specific before/after practice? I still plan on coming home and doing some upper body.

  14. bad thing about fatty fish is that its expensive


    what's a good fish to grill on a george foreman?

  15. Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFury View Post
    EDIT: Basketball will be starting soon, and practice will be from 3 PM - 5 PM, should I try to have anything specific before/after practice? I still plan on coming home and doing some upper body.
    A lot of people would recommend that you have some BCAAs. Get something inside you at least, to fuel your exercise with something other then your muscles

    If you're going to workout afterwards you may as well have a shake and get some protein in you. Your barely meeting caloric requirements as it is right?

  16. Alrighty, more BCAAs then, half hour before practice I'm guessing? And then the shake on my way home so I can start upper body right when I get home.

    Ya, I barely hit it, because I'm always too worried to go over <_< I guess I do need to add more because of cardio/lifting though. I might hafta have 7 meals a day to get to my limit then.

  17. Stopping fish oil when starting CKD was opposite of what you should have done. Get them in you ASAP. Remember that this diet is 60%+ fat. Put some extra virgin olive oil in your shake, along with some ground flax seeds. I also suggest Sesamin in either cap or liquid form (I put a few squirts in every shake).

    It doesn't seem like you were ready for CKD. I suggest you study the principals more and start eating what it requires. Steak, burger, bacon, fatty fish, chicken thighs, whole eggs, etc. Talapia doesn't cut it in this diet. Most canned tuna has very little fast as well.

  18. "Steak, burger, bacon, fatty fish, chicken thighs, whole eggs"
    I eat all that but the fatty fish and chicken thighs... I did tuna for everything other than fat, the fat came with the other meat <_< I have eggs/bacon for breakfast, snack is almonds, lunch chicken/burger + pepperoni or cheese, dinner along the same lines of lunch, and then a snack of jerkey or something

  19. Salmon is awesome for this diet, and you can buy it in bulk bags at Wal-Mart or similar stores for a good price.

    I don't eat chicken thighs myself.

  20. Salmon it is then, I only bought one box of tilapia, and that stuff sucked <_< I work at an Ihop till I graduate, and I either get a burger with no bun + cheese and some broccoli, or the tilapia, it's actually good there though.

    I've heard some people eating a fruit or having some carbs before there workout, and only then. Is that OK? Or does it kick you out of ketosis? The broccoli is the only thing I have that has some carbs, only because it's fiber. I have it prolly twice a week, because I'm also taking a multi so I'm not too worried about fiber.

    I'd like to just have a drink like a Monster or something before practice, but not sure if it's advised or whatever. Sorry for all the questions by the way, I've looked for all the CKD threads here and on 2 or 3 other sites, and most of them have the same stuff, so I'm forced to ask <_< And thanks for all the help

  21. Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFury View Post
    Salmon it is then, I only bought one box of tilapia, and that stuff sucked <_< I work at an Ihop till I graduate, and I either get a burger with no bun + cheese and some broccoli, or the tilapia, it's actually good there though.

    I've heard some people eating a fruit or having some carbs before there workout, and only then. Is that OK? Or does it kick you out of ketosis? The broccoli is the only thing I have that has some carbs, only because it's fiber. I have it prolly twice a week, because I'm also taking a multi so I'm not too worried about fiber.

    I'd like to just have a drink like a Monster or something before practice, but not sure if it's advised or whatever. Sorry for all the questions by the way, I've looked for all the CKD threads here and on 2 or 3 other sites, and most of them have the same stuff, so I'm forced to ask <_< And thanks for all the help
    Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale in his book the anabolic solution suggests not to intake carbs before working out because it compromises some of the fat burning capabilities. I personally wouldn't eat most fruit because of the fructose. While fruits don't contain all fructose, the majority of them contain mostly fructose. On CKD your limited in carbs anyway, so you might as well intake those that have a higher chance to be taken in as muscle glycogen rather than liver glycogen, which fruit will preferentially restore.

    Broccoli is fine, nuts as long as you monitor the carbs, lettuce is good.

    This book is what you need to read.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  22. Thanks, I'll start readin more on it tonight, gotta go to work now <_<

  23. No problem. One of the best books to read on it. Lyle McDonalds Ketogenic Dieting book is also very good to read on it, while Dr. Mauro and other auothors do give more elaborate diets, Lyle gives a base breakdown and fundamentals.

  24. On TKD (which is what I did for a whopping 10 days this month) you can eat fruits/carbs before your workout, but that is totally different than CKD. CKD carb-up is on the weekend, and the workouts are different because of it.

    Talapia is garbage. I will never eat that **** again. If you have to eat that or a burger, eat the burger, as it fits more into this diet (and tastes better anyways). You can add some mayo on the burger as well!

  25. Mayo's very good, especially mayo with chipotles and mustard blended into it. Full fat cheeses also work well.

  26. I imagine not many people are told that they have to control their intake of broccoli :P

    So other then meat, and fish what is okay to eat?

    Lettuce
    Broccoli
    Peas?

  27. Quote Originally Posted by walugi View Post
    I imagine not many people are told that they have to control their intake of broccoli :P

    So other then meat, and fish what is okay to eat?

    Lettuce
    Broccoli
    Peas?
    Walnuts, peanuts, almonds, oils, heavy cream, mayo, butter, some cream cheeses in moderation, sugar free jello.

    http://kitchen-parade-veggieventure....arb_vegetables

  28. From the old CKD website -

    All Fish:
    Tuna, Samon, Sole, Trout, Flounder, Sardines, Herring, Anchovies

    All Meat:
    Beef, Pork, Lamb, Veal, Venison, Ham*, Bacon*

    All Fowl:
    Chicken, Turkey, Duck, Goose, Cornish Hen, Quail, Pheasant

    All Shellfish:
    Oysters, Crabmeat, Shrimp, Lobster, Clams, Squid, Mussels

    All Eggs:
    Scrambled, Fried, Poached, Deviled, Hard-boiled, Soft-boiled, Omelets

    *Processed meats, such as ham, bacon, pepperoni, salami, hot dogs and other luncheon meats may have added sugar and will contribute carbs. Try to avoid meat and fish products cured with nitrates.

    Snacks-On-The-Go:
    String Cheese, Beef Jerky, Turkey Jerky, Olives, Low Carb Bars

    Information about Low Carb Bars:
    Low Carbohydrate bars often have a label for net carbs. Net carbs are the total amount of carbohydrates in grams, minus the total amount of carbohydrates that do not impact your blood sugar. For example, a Low Carb bar may have 14 grams of Total Carbohydrate and 12 of those 14 grams are non-impact carbs. Meaning that only 2 carbs (14g-12g) should be counted towards your daily carb totals. Only 2 carbs have an effect on your blood sugar and need to be counted.

    Information about Fiber:
    Fiber is considered a carbohydrate on nutriton labels but does not have any effect on blood sugar levels. For example, if a product has a Total Carbohydrate of 4 grams and 1 gram of fiber, only 3 (4-1) grams of carbohydrates count towards your daily totals, as these 3 carbs have an effect on your blood sugar.

    Cheeses:
    Cheddar, Cream Cheese, Swiss, Mozzarella, Gouda, Goat, Roquefort, Other Blue Cheeses

    Low-Carb Vegetables:
    Peppers, Mushrooms, Celery, Cucumber, Lettuce, Romaine Lettuce, Radishes, Bok Choy, Parsley

    Low-Moderate Carb Vegetables:
    Artichoke, Asparagus, Snow Peas, Spinach, Broccoli, Spaghetti Squash, Eggplant, Brussel Sprouts, Tomato, Cabbage, Turnips, Onion, Zucchini, Cauliflower

    Salad Garnishes:
    Grated Cheese, Sour Cream, Hard-Boiled Egg, Mushrooms, Bacon, Oil, Vinegar, Full-Fat Salad Dressing

    Herbs & Spices:
    All Spices, Garlic, Basil, Pepper, Dill, Thyme, Oregano, Ginger, Rosemary, Sage

    Fats & Oils:
    Olive Oil, Vegetable Oil, Canola Oil, Walnut Oil, Soybean Oil, Grapeseed Oil, Sesame Oil, Sunflower Oil, Safflower Oil, Butter

    Artificial Sweetners:
    Sucralose (Splenda), Saccharin (Sweet N' Low)

    Beverages:
    Filtered, Mineral, Spring, Tap Water, Club Soda, Heavy Cream, Decaf Coffee, Decaf Tea, Herb Tea, Lemon Juice

  29. Dang, ofcourse the big discussion goes on while I'm at work <_<

    Alright, I picked up some egg patty things from walmart after work, it's basically the egg part of what you would get at a McDonalds morning sandwich, and it has 1 sugar carb. Also got sausage patties, they have 1 sugar carb as well, so I figured I could just combine them and have 4 carbs in one meal(2 of each, then add some cheese and whatnot) for probably breakfast, then lunch will be some salmon I picked up and beef, and dinner will be my eggs/cheese/beef.

    To walugi: Just watchout on your almonds, peanuts, and walnuts. They will slaughter your carb-count if you aren't careful. I was having 2-3 servings a day, and that was popping mine up, and I was having peanut butter >_< But since I cut those out everything's been good. Now I have a serving of walnuts(1 oz.) and that's the only thing I have that has more than 1 carb in it.

    And also, I didn't notice this before, but I can have unsweet tea/coffee with Splenda? I thought sweeteners were out :S

  30. Usually sweeteners are suggested after ketosis is established, same with lemon juice. Then again some people say that sweeteners effect their ketosis, so its up for grabs.
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