Yohimbine Homebrew - AnabolicMinds.com

Yohimbine Homebrew

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    Yohimbine Homebrew


    Alright guys, we need to get this topic going. I didn't know where to put it, so feel free to move it. I want to give a homemade yohimburn product a shot. Eventually, once we get a formula that is proven effective, it would be a great product to add for sale on the site. I hope I don't need to tell you I don't give a damn if lipoderm is better. Yohimburn works and I think we could come up with something similar that works well enough for us to spend the time and money on. Here are yohimburns ingredients: 3500mg OF YOHIMBINE hcl, PURE ALOE VERA GEL, DISTILLED WATER, JAPANESE PEPPERMINT OIL and GLYCERIN. Does anyone have any ideas on what amounts would be good to start off with?

    BTW Curt, when you do get some Betas going of this I would be proud and obliged to be one of the testers.

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    Curt, BDC could you just add in the Yohimbine HCL into the current premixed available on this site?

    And DMSO
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    I would guess yes, it would work!
    •   
       

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    Is the peppermint oil for smell? Does Yohimbine HCL stink?
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    hmmm...T-Heat?

    Sounds like a winner...I'm already looking into acquiring the ingredients so this is right on. Be warned that this project will be about a month down the road before betas are released.

    Chemo
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    I would think they would be in these ratios or about.

    50% aloe gel
    20%water
    10%pepermint(which the active ingredient is menthol which d-limilone is a derivitve thats why par uses it)good pe
    10%glycerin could be replaced by PG no problem

    What do you think....Talk to ya

    You could no tuse the existing fromula. As far as I know Yom(as we will call it for short) is hydroliphic( soluable in water) and ours is lipotrophic solution(oil soluable) or whatever.

    Also the problem is slow release. But of course all of these can be combated.....

    This is what I suggest we start with.

    50%aloe gel
    20%water
    10%d-limonene
    10%propylene glycol

    Let me know what you think...The pepemint oil is expensive so that is what we need to replace with a inexpensive alternitive. d-limonene seems like the best choice........ Talk to ya...
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    Sounds like a good starting point...everyone got the ingredients?

    Aloe gel, 99% = Wal-mart ($2.99)
    Water, DI = Wal-mart ($0.99)
    d-limonene = Lemelange or whatever is left over from your 1-test brew
    prop glycol = Lemelange or whatever is left over from your 1-test brew

    I'll get back to you bros on a price for powders and divy it out to the beta brewers

    Chemo
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    O/T


    Dammit, I love you guys...all of you are motivated, hard-working, dedicated individuals who are totally into helping people, and I would love to shake your hands (imaginarilly [sp?] of course).


    Either that...OR...

    ...I'm just a dumb lifeguard
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    To due popular demand, here is my formula

    For an 240 **ml** bottle of homebrewed yohimbine transdermal use the following:

    7.000 Grams of Yohimbine-HCL
    120ml Pure Aloe Vera Gel
    105ml Water
    15ml Pure Synthetic Peppermint Oil


    Aloe should not be a problem to get. The Peppermint oil I found at a herbal store over here, it cost me about $6.50 for the 15ml. Check online there are many retailers that carry it. For the Y-HCL a good source that retails it for pretty cheap is good ol' 1fast400.com. Total cost was about $35.00 for an 8oz bottle.

    One thing about Transdermal Y-HCL's is you want to do your best to sustain as much as possible in the adipose tissue. I believe Avant Lab's product does this by rapidly transporting the Y-HCL through the skin, and then slowing it down so it stays in the adipose for as long as possible. For formula listed here is simple but works. The Aloe will mosturize the skin, allowing it to open up for penetration by the l-menthol (peppermint oil) which permeates through lipid pathways. You add glycerol for better mostuirization, but I didnt feel it was really necessary.

    If anyone tries this same forumla out let us know how your results go.
    Last edited by curt2go; 10-08-2002 at 12:55 AM.
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    One mistake, the total price came out to about $45.00 for 240ml. Thats $35.00 for the y-HCL and another $10.00 for the aloe + peppermint oil.
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    Here is on of the studies that Par had in his explination on Lipoderm-Y.

    Transdermal delivery and accumulation of indomethacin in subcutaneous tissues in rats

    J Pharm Pharmacol 1998 Feb;50(2):153-8 (ISSN: 0022-3573)
    Mikulak SA; Vangsness CT; Nimni ME
    Department of Biochemistry & Molecular Biology, School of Medicine, University of Southern California, Los Angeles 90033, USA.
    Oral non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) are effective pharmacotherapy for a wide variety of painful, inflammatory disorders. Development of an efficient means of topical administration of NSAIDs could increase local soft-tissue and joint concentrations while reducing systemic distribution of the drug, thereby reducing side-effects. With this in mind we studied the effects of a novel topical penetration enhancer for lipophilic compounds, a trans-phase delivery system (TPDS), a solution of benzyl alcohol, isopropanol and acetone, on the distribution of indomethacin in various tissues locally and remote from the site of application. We compared the TPDS with a 50:50 (v/v) mixture of propylene glycol and ethanol, a commonly used penetration enhancer, and with oral administration. We found that the TPDS was significantly superior to the other approaches at achieving high local-tissue concentrations in the vicinity of the site of application. In addition, comparison of these two carrier systems seems to clarify the different aqueous and hydrophobic pathways of drug penetration which emerge from various experimental findings and theoretical considerations. Our results suggest that this non-aqueous solvent system, and benzyl alcohol in particular, because of its unique physicochemical and solvating characteristics, might be able to deliver therapeutic levels of indomethacin to tissues close to the site of application in a safer and more effective manner than presently accepted forms of delivery.


    Would these links help in formulating an alternative?

    http://www.novagali.com/Tech/Cationi...ulsionText.htm

    http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~zatz/Del.../Niosomes.html
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    Great posts Megadeth! And so the research begins...

    Pay attention to the second link --> VERY interesting info

    Chemo
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    From what I read in these is that PG is a good thing to keep in for yom...



    http://www.cop.ufl.edu/safezone/prok...5110/skin.html good skin model

    http://www.cop.ufl.edu/safezone/prok...0/Ointment.htm gives descriptions

    http://www.cop.ufl.edu/safezone/prok...0/Nonionic.gif shows chems
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    Par has this in one of his articles...

    Lipophilic substances diffuse easily through stratum corneum lipids, but have much more trouble with the aqueous layers below (the vice versa is true for hydrophilic substances). If transport slows too much in any layer of tissue -- be it stratum corneum, epidermis, or dermis -- diffusion slows, causing a buildup in the outer layers.
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    The biggest thing that will stop yom from penetrating is dry skin. We need to use substances that hydrate the skin as well as penetrate..... Talk to ya.

    PG
    PPG
    G
    aloe
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    Well I am changing it a bit . I think the addition of DMSO will be good not in large amount but a small amount to help penetration. The DMSO will let anything in lipophic or hydophilic. Also at 2% concentration th absorption won't be too fast. Also doing some reading and I don't think speed is an issue. When the yom gets under your skin to the fat it will stay there and do its thing. So the speed of penetration is not as much of a factor as i first thought...But I could be wrong.. Talk to ya

    60% aloe to make it a gel
    10% propylene glycol(a must for hydrphilic substances)
    10% d-limonene( shown to be a good penetrant for hydroliphics)
    8% water (It will promote absorption of hydroliphics)
    2% DMSO(cause it helps anything to get in)

    Last edited by curt2go; 10-08-2002 at 04:06 PM.
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    Great stuff guys, This website is already becoming one of my favorites. This is really the only kind of stuff I visited BBing.com for anyway. I think I might try it with a similar solution to Diablo's except use less water and throw in the glycerol, since I have some sitting around. What should be more effective, glycerol or PG? I also might use D-limonene instead of the peppermint oil. The only problem with that is with 10% I get to smelling mighty citrusy. Diablo, how was the smell with the peppermint? Did you smell like it for long, or did it wear off relatively fast?

    BDC, have any idea on the price for yohimbine? Maybe you could get that up on the site before the actual brew gets put up. I figure I will be buying my 1-test here now, so being able to buy bulk yohimbine here too would be great.
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    looks like max/day is 333mg/day is MAX.. But daily dose ranges fom 60-150 mg/day. i would say that application should be 2 times per day split into 50mg/application...

    This means that 3g will last 30days......... Talk to ya.
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    Originally posted by PLer
    BDC, have any idea on the price for yohimbine? Maybe you could get that up on the site before the actual brew gets put up. I figure I will be buying my 1-test here now, so being able to buy bulk yohimbine here too would be great.
    I have a request in with my supplier...will post yo powder prices as soon as I get them.

    Also:
    • 1,4-androdiol
    • 3,6,17-androstenetriol
    • 19-nor-diol
    • Whey protein powder


    Notice that EVERYTHING listed above is a -diol or -triol Of course, not the protein...

    Chemo
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    Originally posted by Big Daddy Chemo

    [*]3,6,17-androstenetriol



    I'm a little excited about this one



    The Dumb One


    P.S. Why 1,4-androdiol and not dione?
  21. Brewing Anabolic Minds
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    Originally posted by Lifeguard
    P.S. Why 1,4-androdiol and not dione?
    Patent issues and the fact that -diols are generally more effective than their -dione counterparts. Although it is more expensive than the -dione it should prove to be more effective.

    Chemo
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    Originally posted by Big Daddy Chemo


    Patent issues and the fact that -diols are generally more effective than their -dione counterparts. Although it is more expensive than the -dione it should prove to be more effective.

    Chemo

    Doesn't Sci-Fit make a Diol version called Andro-poise or something like that?
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    Originally posted by PLer
    Great stuff guys, This website is already becoming one of my favorites. This is really the only kind of stuff I visited BBing.com for anyway. I think I might try it with a similar solution to Diablo's except use less water and throw in the glycerol, since I have some sitting around. What should be more effective, glycerol or PG? I also might use D-limonene instead of the peppermint oil. The only problem with that is with 10% I get to smelling mighty citrusy. Diablo, how was the smell with the peppermint? Did you smell like it for long, or did it wear off relatively fast?

    BDC, have any idea on the price for yohimbine? Maybe you could get that up on the site before the actual brew gets put up. I figure I will be buying my 1-test here now, so being able to buy bulk yohimbine here too would be great.
    As for the smell, it has a strong peppermint scent. Usually it calms down a few minutes after application. You can use D-limonene as well it is quite effective and it wont have that strong peppermint scent.

    PG is far better PE when compared to glycerol. Glycerol is a good mosturizer which is a must for this homebrew. I think PG will penetrate too fast and will cause the y-hcl to end up in the bloodstream a little too quick. Curt, Chemo - thoughts?
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    Originally posted by Big Daddy Chemo


    Patent issues and the fact that -diols are generally more effective than their -dione counterparts. Although it is more expensive than the -dione it should prove to be more effective.

    Chemo
    I believe Bill Lleweyn said himself that the dione is actually more effective then the diol version for this particular compound.
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    Hmmm....link? What was the explanation he gave? Seems counter intuative.

    Chemo
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    Originally posted by ndn diablo


    PG is far better PE when compared to glycerol. Glycerol is a good mosturizer which is a must for this homebrew. I think PG will penetrate too fast and will cause the y-hcl to end up in the bloodstream a little too quick. Curt, Chemo - thoughts?
    Pg is a better penetrater than glycerol but it is an awsome moisterizer as well ad as a penetrator is penetrating properties won't affect the brew much. The differnce between the 2 would be which one you can get easier IMO... Talk to ya.
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    Propylene Glycol
    Propylene Glycol

    Propylene Glycol
    Propylene glycol [57-55-6]
    Synonyms: Propanediol; solar winter ban; monopropylene glycol; propane-1,2-diol; alpha-propyleneglycol; dowfrost; PG 12; sirlene; 1,2-Propanediol; 1,2-Dihydroxypropane; Methylethylene glycol; Propylene glycol; Trimethyl glycol; 1,2-Propylene glycol; PROPYLENEGLYCOL, REAGENT (ACS)
    Glycerol

    Glycerol
    glycerin [56-81-5]
    Synonyms: Propanetriol; D-glycerol; L-glycerol; 1,2,3-Trihydroxypropane; 1,2,3-propanetriol; Glycerol; Glycerin; glyceritol; glycyl alcohol; trihydroxypropane; Glycerin mist; Polyhydric alcohols
    Isopropyl Alcohol

    Isopropyl Alcohol
    2-Propanol [67-63-0]
    Synonyms: Propan-2-ol; Isopropanol; IPA; Sec-propanol; 2-Propanol; Rubbing Alcohol; Dimethylcarbinol; sec-Propyl alcohol; Alcohol; i-Propanol; petrohol; n-propan-2-ol; propol; spectrar; sterisol hand disinfectant; takineocol; alcosolve 2; 2-hydroxypropane; alcojel; alcosolve; avantin; chromar; combi-schutz; hartosol; imsol a; isohol; lutosol; DuPont Zonyl FSP Fluorinated Surfactants; DuPont Zonyl FSN Fluorinated Surfactants; DuPont Zonyl FSA Fluorinated Surfactants; DuPont Zonyl FSJ Fluorinated Surfactants; ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL (MANUFACTURING, STRONG-ACID PROCESS)



    Let's look at the chemistry of the two choices and eventually compare them to i-prop. Notice the similiarities and the differences between the two molecules. Prop Glycol has two -OH (hydroxy) groups and glycerol has 3. So what does this matter? Let me tell you...

    Imagine that each of those OH groups are pulling on the "rope" wherever they are attached. This is likened to molecular polarity. In addition, the -OH groups lend themselves to increased "solvation" due to hydrogen bonding. So, the more -OH's there are the better:
    • Solvation we will get (i.e. - better PH solubility, get more powder into solution)
    • Miscibility with water and other alcohols

    Now, the actual difference between the two may not be realized. Imagine if you had $10, 000, 000 and someone gave you another $10, 000...it's still an increase but since the starting amount was high anyway it goes largely un-noticed. Same this with these two...PG is already good at what it does and the benefits of Glycerol may not be noticed. But, I will be changing the PG in my mix to glycerol anyway...

    Now, the comparison of both to isopropyl alcohol...do you notice the trend here with the chemical structures? Glycerol has 3 OH's, PG has 2, and now i-prop has only one. Isopropyl is more "polar" than the other 2 since the one OH is pulling on the rope and nobody is there to counter. What does this do for the mix? It allows for better solvation of PH's which ultimately decides whether you get 10 grams into solution or 15. This is also the reason that ethanol (EtOH, grain, Everclear) is better for solvation since the "rope" is shorter by 1 carbon and the polarity is higher.

    The order of polarity is as such:i-prop (highest) - Prop Glycol (middle) - Glycerol (lowest)

    Let's wrap this up...
    IMO, the preferred choice between the two would be Glycerol. BUT, there is such a small effective difference between the two that it would be more practical to use whatever is convenient. This is said with the knowledge that i-prop alcohol is used as the primary solvent.

    Chemo

    BTW, I am also going to post this in the ingredient forum...
    Please reply here --> http://forum.bdcnutrition.com/showth...s=&threadid=45
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    Big daddy,

    I'll admit, alot of the nomosome article was greek to me. I did however notice some signifigance in it. Why is the info so interesting to you? You haven't said anything about it, other than it was VERY interesting. Will it help in formulating an alternative to lipoderm-y? Do you know if they can used in a product without charging an arm and a leg?

    Megadeth
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    Chemo are you suggesting ISO in the homebrew yom..???? I know that par uses it as his main ingredient.. TAlkto ya..
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    Here is some info on yom.... Talk to ya.

    Enter yohimbine.

    Chemically, yohimbine is classified as an alpha-2 adrenergic receptor blocker. Alpha-2 adrenergic receptors are located primarily in the abdominal and pelvic area, including the primary sex organs.

    As a receptor blocker, yohimbine is, in a way, an anti-hormone. But in another way, it is similar to cocaine and amphetamine in causing mental agility and arousal.

    Why?

    The only explanation that seems to make sense is that by interfering with the docking of epinephrine (adrenaline) in the abdominal and pelvic tissue, or by even replacing it from alpha-2 receptors to which it normally is bound, yohimbine causes an increase of freely circulating epinephrine / adrenaline.

    The freely circulating additional epinephrine (adrenaline) as a hormone exerts the typical adrenergic effect on the heart, leading to an increased heart rate (tachycardia, palpitations) which will always occur with a sufficiently high dosage of yohimbine. But because epinephrine is not just a hormone but also a neurotransmitter, it also affects the central nervous system in a manner that actually is quite similar to cocaine or amphetamine, with increased alertness, mental agitation, and proneness to arousal, sexual and otherwise.

    Yohimbine is unique in that it has a dual aphrodisiac function: it improves sexual function by displacing hormonal epinephrine from alpha-2 adrenergic receptors in the pelvic area, and it increases proneness to arousal through supplying the epinephrine from the alpha-2 adrenergic receptors to the central nervous system (the brain), where it is active as a neurotransmitter.

    As a pro-sexual drug, yohimbine has a definite edge over cocaine, amphetamine, and methamphetamine. The three street drugs may have the effect of causing sexual arousal, but at the same time interfere negatively with sexual function.

    This is the case because hormonal epinephrine not only has the function to increase heart rate and blood pressure in order to make the body ready for fight or flight, but also to shut down functions that are not essential for fighting or fleeing. Blood is drawn from the digestive tract while bowel movement may be hastened to rid the body of weight.

    Vasodilatation in the genital tract is made impossible. An erection during a fight would be an unwelcome obstacle, and a highly vulnerable target on top of that. This is why the increased catecholamine levels effected by cocaine, amphetamine, and methamphetamine all lead to a strong shrinkage of the male genitals. Therefore, what one gets from cocaine and amphetamines is a plus in desire and a minus in capability… an odd combination indeed.

    Yohimbine, on the other hand, does not elevate epinephrine effects throughout the body. Yohimbine effects a minus of epinephrine in the abdominal and genital areas where alpha-2 adrenergic receptors prevail, and a plus of epinephrine in the central nervous system and other, mostly upper parts, of the human body.

    In order to understand why the interference with alpha-2 adrenergic receptors works to facilitate erections, one has to know that the normal, flaccid genital state is, in the first place, only caused by hormonal epinephrine (adrenaline) being almost permanently docked to alpha-2 adrenergic receptors. To achieve an erection normally, nerve impulses will have to initiate a physiological process by which epinephrine (adrenaline) is removed from alpha-2 adrenergic receptors.

    The same effect can be reached by ingesting some 5 to 50 milligram of yohimbine.
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    Originally posted by curt2go
    Chemo are you suggesting ISO in the homebrew yom..???? I know that par uses it as his main ingredient.. TAlkto ya..
    I'm not saying that iso should be the main ingredient but that it should be the main solvent. Maybe in the 20-25% range. Accordingly, I'm leaning towards Glycerol instead of PG for the Yo as well. DMSO in the 5% range.

    Looks something like this:
    • 45% Aloe
    • 20% i-prop alcohol
    • 10% Water
    • 10% d-limonene
    • 10% Glycerol
    • 5% DMSO


    Comments?

    Chemo
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    Looks like Par is double dipping.....!!!!!.. This is his formula in Purcu-lean. Click on perculean at the bottom and it atkes you to the facts. they are the EXACT same as Par's.Even the formula... HUH.. Juts thought it was interesting...

    http://www.richgaspari.com/newslette...erculean_4.htm
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    Serving Size: Start with 3-4 squirts and increase daily. Do not exceed 10 squirts at one time. Do not exceed 20 squirts in one day.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ingredients
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Each six squirts (4 ml) contains 100 mg of Yohimbine HCL.
    Isopropyl alcohol, benzyl alcohol, water, n-methyl-2-pyrrolidinone, glycerol, l-menthol, laurocapram, Yohimibine Hcl, Carboner 934
    hhhmmm....looks like we are on the same track

    Skip the BA, n-methyl, and laurocapram...still will have a kick ass brew!

    Chemo
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    Here is another recipe and product... Take a look... IPM is in there????

    http://www.netrition.com/global_liponiq_page.html
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    Other Ingredients: Water, Propylene Glycol, MCT, Phospholipids, Emulsifiers, Isopropyl Myristate, Natural Vegetable Glycerine, TEA, Anti-foam, Methyl Parabene, Propyl Parabane.

    Recommended Use: The usual starting dose is 2 ml (1 pump) applied to target area once daily. Focus on one target area at a time until desired result is achieved.
    The more we work on this the closer we get to the homebrew recipe...

    Chemo
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    Here is something i have yet to figure out exactly. Yom has an oral boiavalibility of 22% read that somewhere. Does the yom go through the skin and deposit into the fat or is it supposed to go into the blood stream???? If it is supposed to go into the blood stream then it really won't work for spot reduction will it. If it is to go into the fat then the dmso might be tooo much. But if it is to go into the blood stream then why not just eat it with and eca???? we could call it an ecay stack!!!! Well let me know what you guys think... This is a major factor in the recipe. i think we have to figure this out first... Talk to ya...
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    Curt,
    It needs to go into the fat, otherwise we would just use the prohormone brew. Pars brew has science to back up why his is concentrated locally and works for spot reduction. The yohimburn doesn't have the literature, but the anecdotal evidence is huge and it no doubt works too.
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    as for 1,4-dione, big cat also wrote (or corrected) in his articles that 1,4-dione is better than diol, but i remember pa saying on bb.com that he didn't think there was any real proof of that... also some people have claimed good results with the diol...

    -5
  39. Brewing Anabolic Minds
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    I agree with the 1,4-andro --> I have to see the proof or at least read the logic. An oral dione being more effective than a diol?? Sounds counter-intuative...if someone finds the article or thread where he makes the claim and offers proof post the link!!

    Chemo
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    This is what llewellyn had to say:

    1) The 17 beta-hydroxy group of converted boldenone is extremely stable with ingestion of the 1,4 andro. There is no need to search for another enzyme pathway (3BHSD). The diol likewise should have a much lower active conversion rate in comparison, not better.

    2) The diol MAY impart eastrogenic activity due to the fact that its partially unsaturated A ring resembles Estradiol closely). I have seen no documentation to support this however, but PA's suggestion of this seems plausable.

    3) It costs more to manufacture.

    Heres the link to the thread:

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...highlight=diol

    but then agian his company does sell Boldione (1,4andro-dione), so he might not be 100% honest about this.
  

  
 

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