Yohimbine Homebrew

PLer · 10-07-2002, 07:57 PM

Alright guys, we need to get this topic going. I didn't know where to put it, so feel free to move it. I want to give a homemade yohimburn product a shot. Eventually, once we get a formula that is proven effective, it would be a great product to add for sale on the site. I hope I don't need to tell you I don't give a damn if lipoderm is better. Yohimburn works and I think we could come up with something similar that works well enough for us to spend the time and money on. Here are yohimburns ingredients: 3500mg OF YOHIMBINE hcl, PURE ALOE VERA GEL, DISTILLED WATER, JAPANESE PEPPERMINT OIL and GLYCERIN. Does anyone have any ideas on what amounts would be good to start off with?

BTW Curt, when you do get some Betas going of this I would be proud and obliged to be one of the testers.

Lifeguard · 10-07-2002, 08:04 PM

Curt, BDC could you just add in the Yohimbine HCL into the current premixed available on this site?

And DMSO

dg806 · 10-07-2002, 10:42 PM

I would guess yes, it would work!

dg806 · 10-07-2002, 10:44 PM

Is the peppermint oil for smell? Does Yohimbine HCL stink?

Chemo · 10-07-2002, 10:59 PM

hmmm...T-Heat?

Sounds like a winner...I'm already looking into acquiring the ingredients so this is right on. Be warned that this project will be about a month down the road before betas are released.

Chemo

curt2go · 10-07-2002, 11:11 PM

I would think they would be in these ratios or about.

50% aloe gel
20%water
10%pepermint(which the active ingredient is menthol which d-limilone is a derivitve thats why par uses it)good pe
10%glycerin could be replaced by PG no problem

What do you think....Talk to ya

You could no tuse the existing fromula. As far as I know Yom(as we will call it for short) is hydroliphic( soluable in water) and ours is lipotrophic solution(oil soluable) or whatever.

Also the problem is slow release. But of course all of these can be combated.....

This is what I suggest we start with.

50%aloe gel
20%water
10%d-limonene
10%propylene glycol

Let me know what you think...The pepemint oil is expensive so that is what we need to replace with a inexpensive alternitive. d-limonene seems like the best choice........ Talk to ya...

Chemo · 10-07-2002, 11:36 PM

Sounds like a good starting point...everyone got the ingredients?

Aloe gel, 99% = Wal-mart ($2.99)
Water, DI = Wal-mart ($0.99)
d-limonene = Lemelange or whatever is left over from your 1-test brew
prop glycol = Lemelange or whatever is left over from your 1-test brew

I'll get back to you bros on a price for powders and divy it out to the beta brewers

Chemo

Lifeguard · 10-08-2002, 12:16 AM

O/T

Dammit, I love you guys...all of you are motivated, hard-working, dedicated individuals who are totally into helping people, and I would love to shake your hands (imaginarilly [sp?] of course).

Either that...OR...

...I'm just a dumb lifeguard

ndn diablo · 10-08-2002, 12:53 AM

To due popular demand, here is my formula

For an 240 **ml** bottle of homebrewed yohimbine transdermal use the following:

7.000 Grams of Yohimbine-HCL
120ml Pure Aloe Vera Gel
105ml Water
15ml Pure Synthetic Peppermint Oil

Aloe should not be a problem to get. The Peppermint oil I found at a herbal store over here, it cost me about $6.50 for the 15ml. Check online there are many retailers that carry it. For the Y-HCL a good source that retails it for pretty cheap is good ol' 1fast400.com. Total cost was about $35.00 for an 8oz bottle.

One thing about Transdermal Y-HCL's is you want to do your best to sustain as much as possible in the adipose tissue. I believe Avant Lab's product does this by rapidly transporting the Y-HCL through the skin, and then slowing it down so it stays in the adipose for as long as possible. For formula listed here is simple but works. The Aloe will mosturize the skin, allowing it to open up for penetration by the l-menthol (peppermint oil) which permeates through lipid pathways. You add glycerol for better mostuirization, but I didnt feel it was really necessary.

If anyone tries this same forumla out let us know how your results go.

ndn diablo · 10-08-2002, 01:19 AM

One mistake, the total price came out to about $45.00 for 240ml. Thats $35.00 for the y-HCL and another $10.00 for the aloe + peppermint oil.

megadeth · 10-08-2002, 03:36 AM

Here is on of the studies that Par had in his explination on Lipoderm-Y.

Transdermal delivery and accumulation of indomethacin in subcutaneous tissues in rats

J Pharm Pharmacol 1998 Feb;50(2):153-8 (ISSN: 0022-3573)
Mikulak SA; Vangsness CT; Nimni ME
Department of Biochemistry & Molecular Biology, School of Medicine, University of Southern California, Los Angeles 90033, USA.
Oral non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) are effective pharmacotherapy for a wide variety of painful, inflammatory disorders. Development of an efficient means of topical administration of NSAIDs could increase local soft-tissue and joint concentrations while reducing systemic distribution of the drug, thereby reducing side-effects. With this in mind we studied the effects of a novel topical penetration enhancer for lipophilic compounds, a trans-phase delivery system (TPDS), a solution of benzyl alcohol, isopropanol and acetone, on the distribution of indomethacin in various tissues locally and remote from the site of application. We compared the TPDS with a 50:50 (v/v) mixture of propylene glycol and ethanol, a commonly used penetration enhancer, and with oral administration. We found that the TPDS was significantly superior to the other approaches at achieving high local-tissue concentrations in the vicinity of the site of application. In addition, comparison of these two carrier systems seems to clarify the different aqueous and hydrophobic pathways of drug penetration which emerge from various experimental findings and theoretical considerations. Our results suggest that this non-aqueous solvent system, and benzyl alcohol in particular, because of its unique physicochemical and solvating characteristics, might be able to deliver therapeutic levels of indomethacin to tissues close to the site of application in a safer and more effective manner than presently accepted forms of delivery.

Would these links help in formulating an alternative?

http://www.novagali.com/Tech/Cationi...ulsionText.htm

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~zatz/Del.../Niosomes.html

Chemo · 10-08-2002, 10:00 AM

Great posts Megadeth! And so the research begins...

Pay attention to the second link --> VERY interesting info

Chemo

curt2go · 10-08-2002, 12:36 PM

From what I read in these is that PG is a good thing to keep in for yom...

http://www.cop.ufl.edu/safezone/prok...5110/skin.html good skin model

http://www.cop.ufl.edu/safezone/prok...0/Ointment.htm gives descriptions

http://www.cop.ufl.edu/safezone/prok...0/Nonionic.gif shows chems

curt2go · 10-08-2002, 12:40 PM

Par has this in one of his articles...

Lipophilic substances diffuse easily through stratum corneum lipids, but have much more trouble with the aqueous layers below (the vice versa is true for hydrophilic substances). If transport slows too much in any layer of tissue -- be it stratum corneum, epidermis, or dermis -- diffusion slows, causing a buildup in the outer layers.

curt2go · 10-08-2002, 12:45 PM

The biggest thing that will stop yom from penetrating is dry skin. We need to use substances that hydrate the skin as well as penetrate..... Talk to ya.

PG
PPG
G
aloe

curt2go · 10-08-2002, 02:12 PM

Well I am changing it a bit . I think the addition of DMSO will be good not in large amount but a small amount to help penetration. The DMSO will let anything in lipophic or hydophilic. Also at 2% concentration th absorption won't be too fast. Also doing some reading and I don't think speed is an issue. When the yom gets under your skin to the fat it will stay there and do its thing. So the speed of penetration is not as much of a factor as i first thought...But I could be wrong.. Talk to ya

60% aloe to make it a gel
10% propylene glycol(a must for hydrphilic substances)
10% d-limonene( shown to be a good penetrant for hydroliphics)
8% water (It will promote absorption of hydroliphics)
2% DMSO(cause it helps anything to get in)

PLer · 10-08-2002, 03:50 PM

Great stuff guys, This website is already becoming one of my favorites. This is really the only kind of stuff I visited BBing.com for anyway. I think I might try it with a similar solution to Diablo's except use less water and throw in the glycerol, since I have some sitting around. What should be more effective, glycerol or PG? I also might use D-limonene instead of the peppermint oil. The only problem with that is with 10% I get to smelling mighty citrusy. Diablo, how was the smell with the peppermint? Did you smell like it for long, or did it wear off relatively fast?

BDC, have any idea on the price for yohimbine? Maybe you could get that up on the site before the actual brew gets put up. I figure I will be buying my 1-test here now, so being able to buy bulk yohimbine here too would be great.

curt2go · 10-08-2002, 04:05 PM

looks like max/day is 333mg/day is MAX.. But daily dose ranges fom 60-150 mg/day. i would say that application should be 2 times per day split into 50mg/application...

This means that 3g will last 30days......... Talk to ya.