[dutchbodybuilde]

A shame that such a good thread ended in flaming,bashing and name calling.So someone patended a transdermal delivery system. So what? There are millions of patents, thats not to say that this patented system is the best way, nor THE ONLY WAY, its not the holy gospel. As we all know there lead many roads to Rome. When Dan D, wrote in MM2000 about spotreduction everybody thought he was crazy, no such thing possible. Now injectable spotreduction is normal and broadly exepted,see Anabolics 2004. I was asked to brainstorm about the best way to deliver the active ingredients in Helios (yohimbine hcl, clenbuterol and T3) in a gel since many people prefer this method over frequent injections. I hope to find in this forum knowledgable members that are willing to cooperate with me, what I need is to find a gel or cream that is suitable for sale. After manufacturing we are planning to do a lot of "real life" testing with volonteers.
ronny@bodyofscience.com
www.bodyofscience.com

[Big Cat]

Originally Posted by dutchbodybuilde

A shame that such a good thread ended in flaming,bashing and name calling.So someone patended a transdermal delivery system. So what? There are millions of patents, thats not to say that this patented system is the best way, nor THE ONLY WAY, its not the holy gospel. As we all know there lead many roads to Rome. When Dan D, wrote in MM2000 about spotreduction everybody thought he was crazy, no such thing possible. Now injectable spotreduction is normal and broadly exepted,see Anabolics 2004. I was asked to brainstorm about the best way to deliver the active ingredients in Helios (yohimbine hcl, clenbuterol and T3) in a gel since many people prefer this method over frequent injections. I hope to find in this forum knowledgable members that are willing to cooperate with me, what I need is to find a gel or cream that is suitable for sale. After manufacturing we are planning to do a lot of "real life" testing with volonteers.
ronny@bodyofscience.com
www.bodyofscience.com

Sure, gimme a holler at peter.van.mol1@pandora.be.

[BULK_CITY]

uh ok, this thread got a little side tracked but I was wondering if there was any consensus on a good homemade yohimbine hcl topical gel to make?

heres one i found from a credible source (I have not tried this yet):

1. Yohimbine HCL 3.6 Grams
- use for its blocking effects of the alpha 2 fat cell

2. Aloe Vera Gel (168ml, 70% of total mix)
-used for the base of the product, provides lubricity, moisturizers and also help permeate the skin

3. Glycerine(24ml, 10% of total mix)
-used for permeating abilities and its ability to draw in surrounding moisture to the applied location.

4. 99% Isopropyl Alcohol (19.2ml, 8% of total mix)
-used for putting compound in solution as well as slightly disrupting the lipid layer of the stratum corneum to allow yohimbine to get through
-concentration though is much lower than with a prohormone transdermal (when legal). We want it to permeate the skin, just not fully absorb through to the blood stream.

5. Propylene Glycol (24ml, 10% of total mix)
- again used for lubricity during application, ability to provide moisture to the applicated area. As well PG has many skin permeating values.


6. Distilled Water (0-12ml, <5% of total mix)
- general filler or reducer, use as needed

7. l-menthol/menthol crystals/peppermint oil (<1-2ml, <1% of total mix)
- menthol in nature has the ability to penetrate the stratum corneum (outer layer of skin) and allow for compound to enter.

this last item is not necessary, but some people like a gel instead of a liquid/watery type application (easier to put on). this can be tricky though, and don't attempt unless you have a ph tester as the ph of the mix needs to be neutral around 7 to stay in a gel state.

8. Carbomer (<1ml, <1%)
-used as a gelling agent, to turn make our liquid application into an applicable skin gel

with the above mentioned “road blocks�, I really feel this is a great combination of chemicals to transport the yohimbine in the adipose layer and keep it there. it has many skin permeating chemicals, but none really powerful enough for quick transport. the down side to this mix is absorption time is lagged quite a bit compared to the prohormone gel. though it is slower, this slower absorption really helps with our main issue with this product, keeping the compound in the adipose tissue

[flyingjer]

so the final consensus for the formula is what, what was actually tried and what worked

[info_cker]

i have wondered that myself. the formulas i have seen are very similar to alot of the stuff like penetrate minus the aloe gel. but i was told that would't work with yoh. i also noticed that some of the yoh gels out there use n-methyl-2-pyrrolidinone and/or laurocapram to push yoh into the skin which is supposedly better than l-menthol(which is still good). these are all supposed to be alot better that d-limonene, which is in most recipies due to the lower cost. is anybody get results with d-lim and know that it is sufficient to still do the job?

[SprtNvolcoM]

lol, BUMP (from t he dead). So whats the final verdict??

48% aloe
25% water
15% menthol(in alcohol) solution
10% PG
2% DMSO
Y-hcl 3.5g for 1month supply...



Is that it? If so, did any try it or was everyone to busy fighting. Get back to me.

Thanks,
sprt.

[SprtNvolcoM]

bump

[scarfacebling]

no final verdict?

[SprtNvolcoM]

Originally Posted by scarfacebling

no final verdict?

Guess not! Lets use this one and see if it works. You down? lol!

[mm107]

has anyone tried this with a specific carrier solution??

i know primordial performance, makers of dermacrine has a transdermal formula, which you add in basepowders and bam, they said it can recieve up to 40% absorption with certain bases...

[mm107]

Hey All, im ALMOST DONE picking out my ingredients for my topical fat burner (imitation of YES but better i hope)

These are the powders on their way:
Yohimbine HCL - 3 grams - molecular weight = 350ish
Caffein - 400grams -molecular weight - 212ish
DHEA - 25 grams - molecular weight - 250ish

so these all should recieve around 35-40% absorption rate.
The OHV Solution is 7fl Oz.
3-4 lotion pumps = 6-7mls
1 pump = 2mls
1 US fluid ounce = 30ml ml


Now with these powders,

I will be using PrimordialPerformance's Carrier solution utilizing OHV technology to get the ingrediants passed my skin. (bottle can most likely disolve up to 6grams of powders...)

This is a very basical transdermal. Not too involved, its getting me ready for PrimordialPerformance's topical fatburner soon =]

3000mg Yohimbine
2500mg DHEA
500mg Caffein for the Diuretic Purpose...

Now does this combo seem to little ingrediants??? or just dump the caffein?

or too much DHEA? = suppressive?

At those dosages this is what it should equal

This is the math i have come up with.....

100% Absorption
Yohibine
3000 / 7 = 429mg per 1 fl oz
1 Fl oz = 30 Ml's
1 ML = 14.3mg Yohimbine

DHEA
2500 / 7 = 357mg per 1 fl oz
1 Fl oz = 30 Ml's
1 ML = 11.9 Mg DHEA

Caffeine
500 / 7 = 71mg per 1 fl oz
1 Fl oz = 30 Ml's
1 ML = 2mg Caffeine

At 35% Absorption
Yohimbine = 5mg Per 1ml
DHEA = 4mg per 1ml
Caffeine = .7mg per 1 ml

I dont know what the normal dosage for a topical formular is with DHEA/Yohimbine....But i know the oral dosage is between 5-10mg

So to achieve the dosage of 10mg yohimbine /serving i need to use :
2 pumps
10mg Yohimbine
8mg DHEA
1.5mg Caffein (wondering if its even worth it or more DHEA)

2 pumps

[DMac]

Originally Posted by mm107

Hey All, im ALMOST DONE picking out my ingredients for my topical fat burner (imitation of YES but better i hope)

These are the powders on their way:
Yohimbine HCL - 3 grams - molecular weight = 350ish
Caffein - 400grams -molecular weight - 212ish
DHEA - 25 grams - molecular weight - 250ish

so these all should recieve around 35-40% absorption rate.
The OHV Solution is 7fl Oz.
3-4 lotion pumps = 6-7mls
1 pump = 2mls
1 US fluid ounce = 30ml ml


Now with these powders,

I will be using PrimordialPerformance's Carrier solution utilizing OHV technology to get the ingrediants passed my skin. (bottle can most likely disolve up to 6grams of powders...)

This is a very basical transdermal. Not too involved, its getting me ready for PrimordialPerformance's topical fatburner soon =]

3000mg Yohimbine
2500mg DHEA
500mg Caffein for the Diuretic Purpose...

Now does this combo seem to little ingrediants??? or just dump the caffein?

or too much DHEA? = suppressive?

At those dosages this is what it should equal

This is the math i have come up with.....

100% Absorption
Yohibine
3000 / 7 = 429mg per 1 fl oz
1 Fl oz = 30 Ml's
1 ML = 14.3mg Yohimbine

DHEA
2500 / 7 = 357mg per 1 fl oz
1 Fl oz = 30 Ml's
1 ML = 11.9 Mg DHEA

Caffeine
500 / 7 = 71mg per 1 fl oz
1 Fl oz = 30 Ml's
1 ML = 2mg Caffeine

At 35% Absorption
Yohimbine = 5mg Per 1ml
DHEA = 4mg per 1ml
Caffeine = .7mg per 1 ml

I dont know what the normal dosage for a topical formular is with DHEA/Yohimbine....But i know the oral dosage is between 5-10mg

So to achieve the dosage of 10mg yohimbine /serving i need to use :
2 pumps
10mg Yohimbine
8mg DHEA
1.5mg Caffein (wondering if its even worth it or more DHEA)

2 pumps

Regular DHEA or 7 Keto?

[mm107]

Originally Posted by DMac

Regular DHEA or 7 Keto?

reg dhea, since im 'on' and could care less about dhea/test conversion

[DMac]

Originally Posted by mm107

reg dhea, since im 'on' and could care less about dhea/test conversion

I think 7 Keto is more thermogenic and too far down the chain to convert to test. From what i've heard 7 keto is supposed to be the way to go for fat burners, I haven't had time to really look at much of the research tho.



why the dancers? because they were there. And they're burning fat.

[smeton_yea]

Yohimbine can also increase levels of norepinephrine and stimulate the central nervous system by inhibiting MAO.Wouldnt think its no way as effective as hordenine or Deprenyl at inhibiting MAO.

Used it in 2006 while reaching my Bodybuilding goal . It does works. There was rsearch done on Fat burners and it got three out of five stars. Caffiene also got three out of five stars so this is at least as good as caffiene for fatloss. I dont know if Yohimbine burns adrenals out. Only used it one month here.

[thaOrleanyte]

my guess is people like Curt and other big in this thread probably unsubscribed after the bickering. I read every page of this mofo and still kinda lost. Wish I knew what to mix and what works. I mean I see the formulas but no one ever said which formula they feel is best.


o well