Yohimbine Homebrew

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    Well...it seems to me that the 17b-hydroxy is more stable and as in a diol it is already there. Now, the 3b-hydroxy should tend to be more stable in the keto form since this would increase the conjegation of the system. I see his point, though, since there is also another stable resonance form (estradiol) that may have a similiar energy content.

    Chemo

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    I can't even fake my way through this conversation...hehehe. Just let us know which one is better . gee wiz....
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    What about:

    50% Aloe
    20% Isopropyl Alcohol
    10% Benzyl Alcohol
    10% Glycerol
    10% L-Menthol

    I think the aloe will provide plenty of water. I'm not sure whether DMSO is a good addition or not? And l-menthol is preferable to limonene.
    •   
       

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    Also sounds like a good recipe...

    How about this one:
    • 40% Aloe
    • 20% i-prop alcohol
    • 15% IPM
    • 10% Glycerol
    • 10% L-menthol
    • 5% DMSO
    • 1 gram Carbomer 934 / Triethanolamine


    Chemo
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    BDC,

    My reasoning for the iso+benzyl alcohols was the article posted by megadeth regarding trans-phase delivery systems. What benefits will the IPM provide? Moisturizer?

    35% Aloe
    20% Isopropyl Alcohol
    10% Benzyl Alcohol
    10% IPM
    10% Glycerol
    10% L-Menthol
    5% DMSO

    I think prehaps the next best step would be to source the ingrediants and some yhcl and try things out. A few things I'm wondering:

    1. Will the aloe make it take too long to absorb / evaporate? I think ideally, it should be clear of the surface of the skin in 10 minutes tops. If the aloe is slowing things down too much, we could add more alcohol and lower the aloe.

    2. Will DMSO get too much into the blood? It will be easy to tell the first time one tries this on himself

    3. How strong is the scent from L-menthol?
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    I think the l-menthol is hard to get and expensive right. thta is why I suggested the derivitive d-limonene. Easy to get and cheap... Which is good for the homebrewer.... Also id benzyl alcohol easy and is it cheap. We should not even suggest things that are not easy to get and cheap.. Don't you think? I need to get some yohimbine first I have someone that will try it out.. Should I get it from 1fast????? Or chemo are you getting some soon? Let em know.. Talk to ya
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    The only thing I don't like about these brews is the DMSO. I won't be using it. I thought we were trying to keep the skin hydrated? Even at 5% my skin will get way too dry.
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    Originally posted by curt2go
    I think the l-menthol is hard to get and expensive right. thta is why I suggested the derivitive d-limonene. Easy to get and cheap... Which is good for the homebrewer.... Also id benzyl alcohol easy and is it cheap. We should not even suggest things that are not easy to get and cheap.. Don't you think? I need to get some yohimbine first I have someone that will try it out.. Should I get it from 1fast????? Or chemo are you getting some soon? Let em know.. Talk to ya
    Actually, the l-menthol is only slightly more expensive than the d-limonene. The BA is cheap as hell....

    I'm looking for a source for the powder but no luck as of yet.

    Chemo
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    Cool. Good thing you do your reserch!!hehehe. Talk to ya.
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    Where the hell did all the info go!There is a whole page lost and i made this thread sticky as well. What the hell?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Talk to ya
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    Originally posted by curt2go
    Where the hell did all the info go!There is a whole page lost and i made this thread sticky as well. What the hell?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Talk to ya
    Chemo anyway we can get the old post back? This was a good thread bro!
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    The way the transfer went there was a day period when they backed up the database and when they actually moved it. Those posts still exist but I have to manually import them. Working on it....

    Chemo
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    NDN I have it all in word just in case the transfer gets screwed up... Talk to ya...
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    Yep,

    Bump for bringing the old posts back. Curt2go was on a roll!
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    Originally posted by Big Daddy Chemo
    The posts that were made during the database transfer have been permanently lost. Sorry to all that had research posted...

    Chemo
    Damn that sucks man.

    Curt can you repost the threads that you have saved so we can get this thread going agian?
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    The posts that were made during the database transfer have been permanently lost. Sorry to all that had research posted...

    Chemo
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    One of the big things now missing is curt2go's explanation of cornmint oil, which I think is a major step in the right direction or making an affordable yhcl transdermal. Curt, can you repost some of that info?
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    No chemo they ar not lost i have them saved in word.. Yes not the best place for them but I can re post them. Not to easily though but it WILL be done. Hopefully tommorow I will do it.. Talk to ya...
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    Hey NDn did the y disolve fine . How did you do it? Talk ot ya.
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    Ok here is all the screwed up threads... They will all be under me but i will show who posted them. If there is no indication of who it was. It was me...hehehe. Talk to ya...

    Here we go....
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    SKAZZEL:

    Both l-menthol and benzyl alcohol can be sourced from theeyeofnewt.com.
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    WARDOG:

    I wouldnt suggest the DMSO. As stated, we want it to NOT get to the bloodstream, I think DMSO is going to not help us towards that end. As far as skazzels comment, I also highly recommend Eyeofnewt..great people, and great service.
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    ME:

    Here is some other considerations for menthol... look and see what you think. I don't know if any are cheaper but I will find out. Pepermint oil is a little expensive... Talk to ya

    MENTHOL CRYSTALS IP/BP/USP-LARGE BOLD SMALL (MEDIUM /RICE /FINE)
    MENTHOL CRYSTALS IP/BP/USP-LARGE BOLD SMALL (MEDIUM /RICE /FINE)
    MENTHOL POWDER (FLAKES) TOTAL MENTHOL 97%
    MENTHA ARVENSIS OIL (CORNMINT OIL ) TOTAL MENTHOL 75 %80% 88% 90%
    PEPERMINT OIL DEMENTHOLISED (WITH TERPENES) NATURAL /RECTIFIED/ TRI -RECTIFIED TOTAL MENTHOL 50% MIN (L-.MENTHOL 38% 40 % DEMENTHOLISED MINT OIL BP) PEPPERMINT OIL PIPERTIA- FIRST CUT/ SECOND CUT/CONFIRMING TO BP /USP NATURAL /RECTIFIED
    SPEARMINT OIL ( L- CARVONE 55% TO 95%) THYMOL BP/USP/FCC LIQUID MENTHOL 95% 98%
    MENTHONE 95% 98% PLUS (L-MENTHONE 65% 70% 80% 90 % 95%)
    L-MENTHYL ACETATE 98% PLUS
    MINT TERPENES
    CIS 3 HEXENOL 50% TO 95%
    CIS-3HEXENYL ACETATE 93% PLUS
    3 OCTANOL 97% PLUS
    3 OCTANOL ACETATE 97% PLUS
    MENTHA CITRATA OIL LINALYL ACETATE 70% 80% 85% (EX- CITRATA OIL )
    BASIL OIL (MENTHYL CHAVICOL (ESTRAGOLE TYPE) MENTHYL CHAVICOL (ESTRAGOLE) 99% PLUS
    ANETHOLE 99.5% PLUS (EX BASIL OIL)
    LINALOOL 98% PLUS (EX BASIL OIL)
    L-LIMONENE 80% 95% (EX SPEARMINT OIL TERPENES)
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    ME:

    Look like corn minto oil is very cheap. I have found it for $14 for 32oz. And from the article obove it is 80-95% menthol.. What do you think... Talk to ya
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    ME:

    Look like in this that it is only 40% menthol.. Let me know. talk to ya
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    ME:

    more on corn mint.... The oil is derived from steam distillation of the herb of Mentha Arvensis immediately prior to the inflorescence of the plant. This slightly thick liquid is pale yellow and has 70-88% of menthol as its main constituent. It forms crystals easily and is insoluble in water and blends well with Peppermint, Spearmint and wintergreen. It is used as a Masking agent, Herbal, Oral products (tooth paste and mouth washes), Mint and peppermint.
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    ME:

    This is why cornmint is better than pepermint for us......!! Talk to ya.. Peppermint (Mentha piperita) is an essential oil used world wide in the food and flavouring industries, especially for confectionery and toothpaste. It also has some use in the cosmetic industry. Peppermint oil can be derived from a number of Mentha varieties. The highest quality oil comes from M piperita which is the variety grown here in Australia and in the USA In other countries such as China and Brazil, the common crop grown is M arvensis or Cornmint. These oils have a menthol level of 80-85% (compared to the much more desirable levels of 43-49% of M. piperita) but these oils can be processed to reduce the menthol levels and hence substituted for M.piperita. This practice is declining as the major buyers look to M piperita for their high quality oil.
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    ME:

    quote: Originally posted by Big Daddy Chemo I'm not saying that iso should be the main ingredient but that it should be the main solvent. Maybe in the 20-25% range. Accordingly, I'm leaning towards Glycerol instead of PG for the Yo as well. DMSO in the 5% range. Chemo

    Yom disolves in water does it not. If that is true then iso is not needed as a solvent it will disolve in the water just fine...??????? The second is yom HCL what we will use in the t-heat...

    YOHIMBINE FORMULA-C21H26N2O3
    MELTING POINT- 235 C. BOILING POINT- SUBLIMES SOLUABILITY WATER-SLIGHTLY SOLUBLE
    ALCOHOL-SLIGHTLY SOLUBLE
    ETHER-SLIGHTLY SOLUBLE
    BENZENE-SOLUBLE WHEN HOT
    ETHER- CHLORFORM-SLIGHTLY SOLUBLE RETURN TO INDEX

    YOHIMBINE HYDROCHLORIDE FORMULA-C21H26N2O3.HCL MELTING POINT- 235 C.
    SOLUABILITY WATER- SOLUBLE WHEN HOT
    ALCOHOL-SLIGHTLY SOLUBLE
    ETHER-INSOLUBLE ACETONE-INSOLBULE

    What do you think...Talk to ya...
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    ME:

    Loks like we are not he only one sdoing this. I found this on some thread not related to bb... Very interesting...

    Buy some 5mg yohimbine hcl caps from a supplement supplier, then buy some liquid aloe vera (the real deal, not the banana boat gel stuff), then buy either some plastic wrap & Ben Gay type cream (the menthol is the thing here) or Icy Hot patches. Either open up an Icy hot patch and sprinkle the contents of 4 of the yo' caps on it, or get your pastic wrap and brush on some Ben Gay creeam and then sprinkle the yo' on it. Prep your selected fatty deposit with an alcohol wipe, then a little aloe vera. Slap on your patch or wrap. If using wrap, you will have to secure the "wrap patch" somehow. I usually just wrapped more plastic around it (usually my waist since I was using it on my abs). I have found it best to do this before bed, since you may not want to go to work making the squeaky plastic wrap noise ... but if you are using the Icy Hot patch, you should be good anytime. The alcohol, menthol, and aloe are all carriers that will help the yo' get absorbed by the skin. I am going to start with the Icy patches within a week or so, just to finish up my cycle on the right note. LOL. All of the stuff listed above is readily available, is ALOT cheaper than Cutting Gel or Yohimburn, and will last longer. If you can't find yo' hcl in caps, www.supplementdirect.com carries it. And I gain nothing by sharing that with you all. They do good business and ship promptly.

    Talk to ya
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    ME:I LOVE TO HEAR MYSELF TALK SORRY!

    Well after careful considerations I think this is what I will try... Just need the yom hcl now.... i will try to mix this tommorow and tell you how it goes.... Just a 120ml batch without yom...

    48%Aloe gel**must be 100%** (PE and skin hydrator)
    15%Isopropyl myristate(PE)
    15%cornmint oil(80%menthol)
    10%water(heated and yom put in)
    10%Propylene Glycol(PE and skin hydrator)
    2%DMSO(just because)

    It should be very cheap to make the costly ingredient will be the yom @ 5$/gram from 1fast What do you think????
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    SKAZZEL:

    curt2go,
    Good stuff. The l-menthol is a bit pricey, however I'm not sure how much will actually be needed. The reason for it's addition is to help the yohimbine penetrate the stratum corneum, which is the outermost layer of skin (composed of dead skin cells in a fatty matrix). This layer of skin is very thin, but is one of the most difficult barriers to bypass and without the l-menthol, most of your yohimbine will end up stuck here, bonded to dead skin. We only need enough l-menthol to effectively saturate the stratum corneum - any extra will be wasted.
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    ME:

    The l-menthol is a derivitive of menthol which is found in cornmint @ 80%...Yohimburn uses pepermint which only has 43-49% menthol and it WWWWAAAAAYYYYYY more expensive because it is more useful for flavoring at the lower menthol level. The cornmint is awsome and cheap for our application. Like I said in one of the threads like $14 for 32oz of cornmint... Talk to ya
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    SKAZZEL:

    curt2go, No alcohol in your latest recipe? Do you think the yhcl could be dissolved in heated aloe?
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    ME:

    It will disolve in heated water... Look a couple threads up it shows that yhcl is more soluable in heated water than alcohol.So it will be added to heated water then added to the rest of the brew. Talk to ya....
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    ME:

    skazzel here is more:

    Yohimbine.HCl [Y1002]
    Description: alpha2-adrenoceptor blocker.
    Chemical Formula: C21H26N2O3.HCl
    Molecular Weight: M.W. 390.9
    Solubility: Soluble in Water (10 mg/ml).
    CAS Number: CAS [65-19-0]
    Active Product: N
    Appearance: White to Off-White Solid Purity: >99%
    Handling: Store in Tightly Sealed Vial. Storage: Room Temperature.
    Shipping: Express Courier Literature Reference: 1. Merck Index., 1996., 12:, 10236..
    Bulk Quantity: Inquire $0.00
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    SKAZZEL:

    curt2go, I am concerned about drying times with all of that aloe and water in there. I think 10 minutes is about the max anyone would want to have to wait around for it to dry.
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    ME:

    Thats why I am going to try it out. Yom free...... I love beta testing...... Talk to ya.... Just goto get my hands on some cornmint tommorow... then its all good. As far as the rubbing in I think it will be fine. With the 10% water we are we are only talking 2ml/application @ 30mg/ml(7g in 240ml) which is only .2ml of water which is not very much and 1ml aloe. Not very much at all... Uh oh just thought of something.. The thread above says disolves in 10mg/ml of water with only 24ml of water to get even 3.5g to disolve in just the water is 145mg/ml... Just thinking out loud here. i may have a problem........CRAP!!!!!!!!!!! ! I am going ot have to think on this tonight.. Talk to ya...
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    ME:

    How the hell does everyone elso disolve it??????? it does not disolve in alcohol!!!!! **** CRAP DAM..... This pisses me off.....CRAP... talk to ya
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    NDN:

    Originally posted by curt2go Well after careful considerations I think this is what I will try... Just need the yom hcl now.... i will try to mix this tommorow and tell you how it goes.... Just a 120ml batch without yom...
    48%Aloe gel**must be 100%** (PE and skin hydrator)
    15%Isopropyl myristate(PE)
    15%cornmint oil(80%menthol)
    10%water(heated and yom put in)
    10%Propylene Glycol(PE and skin hydrator)
    2%DMSO(just because)
    It should be very cheap to make the costly ingredient will be the yom @ 5$/gram from 1fast What do you think????


    Its not bad but the formula looks like we would get more into the bloodstream instead of the adipose tissue, something we do not want.
    Try this formula out:
    50% Aloe gel
    20% Benzyl Alcohol
    15% Cornmint oil
    10% Water
    5% Glycerol
    I would think this forumla would do a great job of delerving the y-hcl to the adipose tissue. Thoughts?
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    SKAZZEL:

    ndn, I like it. I am still wary of the additional water, as aloe is mostly water in the first place. I suppose it all depends on if we can get 6 grams of yhcl dissolved into heated aloe. Due to some of the studies I have seen regarding a combo of IPA and BA I might do something like:
    50% Aloe gel
    10% Benzyl Alcohol
    10% Isopropyl Alcohol
    15% Cornmint oil
    10% Water
    5% Glycerol
    or, if we can get the yhcl dissolved in the heated aloe:
    50% Aloe gel
    15% Benzyl Alcohol
    15% Isopropyl Alcohol
    15% Cornmint oil
    5% Glycerol
    I think this would give better results than yohimburn for sure, and might even be close to lipoderm. To be honest, with lipoderm only $43.99 at 1fast400, it will be hard to make a worthwhile homebrew. The yohimbine itself will be $30 (or $24 if bought in 10g quantities or more), so at best you are looking at $30-35 / bottle of questionable homebrew vs proven lipoderm for $44. Not quite the huge savings homebrew has over say 4aderm (especially with the new homebrew recipe, which with the DMSO probably surpasses avant lab's formula) - $40 for avantlabs, or ~$20 for homebrew.
  

  
 

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