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First shot at 5/3/1 - any advice?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockme View Post
    I'm not going to define mesomorph for you. But I'm trying to point out that I can handle much more volume and intensity than 5/3/1. IMO, 5/3/1 may be better suited for an ecto or someone who overtrains easily.
    did you know that the accessory is 100% customizable. if you needed more volume than do more volume in your accessory work. BBB has you doing 5x10 on 2 lifts after the main lift and strong people can do 5-8 sets just to warm up on the main lift. i know when i did it on squat day i would be doing over 20 sets of squats. how is that not enough volume?

    did you even read the book?
    you can call me "ozzie" for short.

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    First shot at 5/3/1 - any advice?


    Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post
    Mesomorph: large bone structure, large muscles and a naturally athletic physique.

    Your profile says you are 5' 8" 175.

    Gain about 50 lbs before calling yourself a mesomorph.

    Nobody here created it, we just have a f.ck load more experience with it than you, and are telling you that you didn't do the program correctly.

    How can you possibly say you did it correctly quitting before you even finished one cycle?
    One of the best posts on AM in a while.
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    Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post
    Mesomorph: large bone structure, large muscles and a naturally athletic physique.

    Your profile says you are 5' 8" 175.

    Gain about 50 lbs before calling yourself a mesomorph.

    Nobody here created it, we just have a f.ck load more experience with it than you, and are telling you that you didn't do the program correctly.

    How can you possibly say you did it correctly quitting before you even finished one cycle?
    Jesus christ, son. Gain 50 lbs? Take a look at my height again. So you are suggesting I either become a fat fock, or start poking myself with AAS. Neither are an option. I've been as heavy as 205 and was huge but smooth. I was lean over the summer at 165, and am now sitting at 185. Ectomorphs are naturally skinny and notorious for having spindly legs, endomorphs are prone to fat gain and bigger waists. You can obviously see my legs in my avi, and I'm certainly not prone to fat gain. So what would you classify me as?

    my profile/pic was taken at 175...I just don't care to update

    Look... I own both of the 5/3/1 books. I purchased them a few months back because I really wanted to try it. All of the logs on AM were very convincing. A dude who goes by sean had a log going of 5/3/1 that kicked ass. But it just didn't cut it for someone like me. So to the OP, give it a shot and see what you think, but if hypertrophy and heavy lifting is your thing, it may not be the best. Just whatever you do, don't follow Wendler's advice of eating doughnuts. I swear it's in the book
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    Quote Originally Posted by asooneyeonig View Post
    did you know that the accessory is 100% customizable. if you needed more volume than do more volume in your accessory work. BBB has you doing 5x10 on 2 lifts after the main lift and strong people can do 5-8 sets just to warm up on the main lift. i know when i did it on squat day i would be doing over 20 sets of squats. how is that not enough volume?

    did you even read the book?
    uhhhh...you guys are sapping my energy. I own both books. If you are doing it right, you shouldn't be doing more than 11 sets of any of the big 4, not 20. You obviously didn't read the book.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockme View Post
    So what would you classify me as?
    at 185, skinny...
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    First shot at 5/3/1 - any advice?


    How do you evaluate the efficacy of ANY training-related protocol in less than 4 weeks? Pure nonsense.
    Don't worry, man, someday I'ma be nobody too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swanson52 View Post
    How do you evaluate the efficacy of ANY training-related protocol in less than 4 weeks? Pure nonsense.
    Definitely not enough time to see if the program worked or not. Either didn't know their max or didn't calculate correctly. That's what it seems like to me. But I may be wrong
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    Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post
    at 185, skinny...
    What do you look like at 204 at 5'7"? Just curious since you think my structure is skinny. Any pics to back up your high talking?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockme View Post
    What do you look like at 204 at 5'7"? Just curious since you think my structure is skinny. Any pics to back up your high talking?
    what is this, 3rd grade?
    Quote Originally Posted by rockme View Post
    But I'm trying to point out that I can handle much more volume and intensity than 5/3/1. IMO, 5/3/1 may be better suited for an ecto or someone who overtrains easily. I mean come on, a deload every 4th week?
    ^^this, is high talking...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swanson52 View Post
    How do you evaluate the efficacy of ANY training-related protocol in less than 4 weeks? Pure nonsense.
    I wasn't getting stronger and was losing size despite being in a caloric surplus/mass phase. That's how. With my current program, which I got from a Ukrainian powerlifter buddy of mine, I can see gains in hypertrophy and strength, and I'm only in my 3rd week. I've ran the program before, but got caught up in trendy programs like 5/3/1 and PHAT (which I liked and ran for like 6 mos.) I'm returning to what works (for me)

    If you read my previous posts, I never said 5/3/1 does not work, I said it does not work for me. I also alluded to the many success stories on it
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    Quote Originally Posted by gymguy21 View Post
    Definitely not enough time to see if the program worked or not. Either didn't know their max or didn't calculate correctly. That's what it seems like to me. But I may be wrong
    You are wrong bro. I'm very detailed and organized when it comes to my training/nutrition. I ran 5/3/1 accordingly for 4 weeks. BTW, that formula he gives for theorizing your 1RM gives you a very liberal number
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    Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post
    what is this, 3rd grade?


    ^^this, is high talking...
    If you need a deload every 4th week, your nutrition/recovery components are sorely lacking. Furthermore, if you did this, you would spend 3 months out of the year deloading!
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    First shot at 5/3/1 - any advice?


    Quote Originally Posted by rockme View Post
    If you need a deload every 4th week, your nutrition/recovery components are sorely lacking. Furthermore, if you did this, you would spend 3 months out of the year deloading!
    While I don't necessarily disagree, I think the point of the deload is to stay ahead of the possible overtraining issue.

    Instead of burning out, you stay "fresh", allowing (theoretically) more consistent heavy training.
    Don't worry, man, someday I'ma be nobody too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockme

    If you need a deload every 4th week, your nutrition/recovery components are sorely lacking. Furthermore, if you did this, you would spend 3 months out of the year deloading!
    That's complete nonsense. At a month from 49, 30+ years in the gym, 5 shoulder surgeries, 5 knee surgeries, 2 wrist surgeries and pins in two of my fingers, 5 yrs of racing mountain bikes semi professionally and competing in powerlifting for a few years now, I look forward to the deload weeks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post
    That's complete nonsense. At a month from 49, 30+ years in the gym, 5 shoulder surgeries, 5 knee surgeries, 2 wrist surgeries and pins in two of my fingers, 5 yrs of racing mountain bikes semi professionally and competing in powerlifting for a few years now, I look forward to the deload weeks.
    Hahaha, I am ready for a deload just reading that post guy...!
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    Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post

    That's complete nonsense. At a month from 49, 30+ years in the gym, 5 shoulder surgeries, 5 knee surgeries, 2 wrist surgeries and pins in two of my fingers, 5 yrs of racing mountain bikes semi professionally and competing in powerlifting for a few years now, I look forward to the deload weeks.
    Did you fall off a mountain or something?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean1332

    Did you fall off a mountain or something?
    More than once, and I left out the concussions and skull fractures

    When man meets tree, tree wins most of the time...
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    Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post

    More than once, and I left out the concussions and skull fractures

    When man meets tree, tree wins most of the time...
    Well I hope you phucked that tree up real good. Damn.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockme View Post
    If you need a deload every 4th week, your nutrition/recovery components are sorely lacking. Furthermore, if you did this, you would spend 3 months out of the year deloading!
    Curious as to what kind of numbers you're pushing around to make claims like this. I'm pretty damn sure I lift a hell of a lot more than you and I deload every 3-4 weeks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post

    That's complete nonsense. At a month from 49, 30+ years in the gym, 5 shoulder surgeries, 5 knee surgeries, 2 wrist surgeries and pins in two of my fingers, 5 yrs of racing mountain bikes semi professionally and competing in powerlifting for a few years now, I look forward to the deload weeks.
    Jeezus....wow.... yeah that sounds fun... :/
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/powerlifting-strongman/240580-road-derby-cup.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    Curious as to what kind of numbers you're pushing around to make claims like this. I'm pretty damn sure I lift a hell of a lot more than you and I deload every 3-4 weeks.
    Don't bother rodja. His super recovery powers and hoooge legs (at 185 ) will surely prevail...
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    Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post
    Don't bother rodja. His super recovery powers and hoooge legs (at 185 ) will surely prevail...
    I'm 220 with massive legs, but I wouldn't dare claim to be a mesomorph.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    I'm 220 with massive legs, but I wouldn't dare claim to be a mesomorph.
    That's why I suggested he gain 50 lbs before making that claim...
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    Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post
    That's why I suggested he gain 50 lbs before making that claim...
    I have met very, very few true mesomorphs and none of them were under 200lbs. ****, they were usually closer to 220.
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    I just noticed that it looks like I bought the 1st instead of 2nd edition ... much of a change between them?
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/powerlifting-strongman/240580-road-derby-cup.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by LizKing531
    I just noticed that it looks like I bought the 1st instead of 2nd edition ... much of a change between them?
    I wouldn't think so, I have the 1st edition as well. hopefully someone with the 2nd edition will chime in.
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    Same here. 1st edition & PLing edition.

    what if Wendler says something in the 2nd edition that could have put a 100lbs onto my total!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean1332
    PLing edition.
    I think I'm gonna pick this one up on Friday, I can f'ing quote the 1st edition...
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    Quote Originally Posted by LizKing531 View Post
    I just noticed that it looks like I bought the 1st instead of 2nd edition ... much of a change between them?
    There's mainly new additions and twists to 5/3/1. The heart of the book remains the same, Wendler just added new ways to integrate the philosophy into other methods.
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    First shot at 5/3/1 - any advice?


    I think the 2nd edition adds/addresses rest pause sets for accessory work. When I'm on my desktop I'll look-posting from phone & memory.

    I'd wager r/p accessory work would meet Dorian Jr's volume/intensity requirement.
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    First shot at 5/3/1 - any advice?


    FYI;

    Wendler has retooled his philosophy on the deload week. He, himself, posted this today on his forum;

    The important thing about the deload is to keep your body active and keep YOU on a schedule. I now recommend this set up:

    Week/Set-Reps

    1. 3x5
    2. 3x3
    3. 5/3/1
    4. 3x5
    5. 3x3
    6. 5/3/1
    7. Deload

    Obviously, on week 4 you increase your TM like you normally would. This gives you a 6 week cycle to help focus you on a specific goal, assistance template or 5/3/1 set/rep variation. ANYONE can do anything for 6 weeks, no matter how hard.

    /Wendler

    That's the very latest, straight from the man who wrote the program.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Curious as to what kind of numbers you're pushing around to make claims like this. I'm pretty damn sure I lift a hell of a lot more than you and I deload every 3-4 weeks.
    My numbers are actually quite pathetic right now after being obsessed with bodybuilding/being lean for the past 12+ mos. But I've always looked stronger than I actually am, so I don't really care. I don't doubt you are stronger than me, but I'm pretty damn sure I look a hell of a lot better than you. But I digress... 315 dead, 225 bench, 275 squat. When I weighed 205 the maxes were 470 dead, 290 bench, 375 squat. Never been the strongest lb for lb. But have always been of the bodybuilding persuasion, so as long as my legs look like they can squat 405, and my chest looks like it can hit 315, it's all good!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swanson52 View Post
    FYI;

    Wendler has retooled his philosophy on the deload week. He, himself, posted this today on his forum;

    The important thing about the deload is to keep your body active and keep YOU on a schedule. I now recommend this set up:

    Week/Set-Reps

    1. 3x5
    2. 3x3
    3. 5/3/1
    4. 3x5
    5. 3x3
    6. 5/3/1
    7. Deload

    Obviously, on week 4 you increase your TM like you normally would. This gives you a 6 week cycle to help focus you on a specific goal, assistance template or 5/3/1 set/rep variation. ANYONE can do anything for 6 weeks, no matter how hard.

    /Wendler

    That's the very latest, straight from the man who wrote the program.
    Nice actually looks like a good revision for the 5/3/1 program. I didn't mind the deload how it was but this is a nice variation to use aswell
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    Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post
    That's complete nonsense. At a month from 49, 30+ years in the gym, 5 shoulder surgeries, 5 knee surgeries, 2 wrist surgeries and pins in two of my fingers, 5 yrs of racing mountain bikes semi professionally and competing in powerlifting for a few years now, I look forward to the deload weeks.
    Oh.... Sorry man. Didn't realize you were almost 50. I tip my hat to you sir for still being in the iron game. But I still stand behind my previous opinions. At 32, deloads for me come every 8-12 weeks, but obviously it's going to be different for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post
    Don't bother rodja. His super recovery powers and hoooge legs (at 185 ) will surely prevail...
    What is this 3rd grade?!
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    Body type is not reflective of bodyweight. You guys seem to be fixated on weighing over 200 lbs. A meso will have the upside down triangle structure with shorter legs and longer upper torso, women will typically have an hour glass figure. In addition to this, he will often have developed legs even as a juvenile. The meso also looks older than his actual age as a teen, displaying a mature look a few years beyond his age. They also gain weight and or lose weight quickly. Bone structure is also indicative, if your middle finger and thumb overlap your wrist and just touch.

    Ectos are rectangular shaped, have a flat chest and thin legs, have trouble gaining weight, and when wrapping thumb and middle finger around wrist they will overlap. They are also skinny and gawky looking as a juvenile, often looking younger than they actually are.

    Endos are round shaped with a high waist. They have a hard time losing weight, but an easy time gaining muscle. They also usually have smallish hands and short arms. They are often chubby as kids and display a maturity look that is often spot on or a little younger than they actually ar as a juvenile. When wrapping thumb and middle finger around wrist they do not touch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockme

    Oh.... Sorry man. Didn't realize you were almost 50. I tip my hat to you sir for still being in the iron game. But I still stand behind my previous opinions. At 32, deloads for me come every 8-12 weeks, but obviously it's going to be different for you.
    Let's see, whose ideas and opinions on training gets more weight: a guy who squatted 1k, or some skinny douche on a forum who thinks he has huge legs and has a bad habit of repeating the definitions of ecto/meso/endomorphs for all to read?

    It's pretty clear to me...
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockme View Post

    My numbers are actually quite pathetic right now after being obsessed with bodybuilding/being lean for the past 12+ mos. But I've always looked stronger than I actually am, so I don't really care. I don't doubt you are stronger than me, but I'm pretty damn sure I look a hell of a lot better than you. But I digress... 315 dead, 225 bench, 275 squat. When I weighed 205 the maxes were 470 dead, 290 bench, 375 squat. Never been the strongest lb for lb. But have always been of the bodybuilding persuasion, so as long as my legs look like they can squat 405, and my chest looks like it can hit 315, it's all good!
    I agree. Fairly pathetic.

    I run distance every day (not by choice mind you), weigh considerably less than you (164 yesterday morning), and beat you on everything but BP (and you only have me by 5lbs.)....

    But you know more than Wendler, right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockme View Post
    My numbers are actually quite pathetic right now after being obsessed with bodybuilding/being lean for the past 12+ mos. But I've always looked stronger than I actually am, so I don't really care. I don't doubt you are stronger than me, but I'm pretty damn sure I look a hell of a lot better than you. But I digress... 315 dead, 225 bench, 275 squat. When I weighed 205 the maxes were 470 dead, 290 bench, 375 squat. Never been the strongest lb for lb. But have always been of the bodybuilding persuasion, so as long as my legs look like they can squat 405, and my chest looks like it can hit 315, it's all good!
    I'm 46 and I do squat 405 (last week), I've also done 495 in a rack pull (this month) & normally get 405 off the floor without too much fuss, and I bench 280. Got 275 for a double on Monday in fact. I'm also skinnier than you at 5'9 & 190, but I bet I'm also bigger. My chest is at least 46" and my legs are around 27". So no, weight does not tell the whole story in terms of how much muscle a person is carrying. We don't have uniform skeletons. Some people at skinny at 200 lb, some are immensly fat, both might be the same strength or different, there's just too many variables.

    Now, being a full 14 years older than you I doubt I look better than you, but from what you wrote I'm pretty sure I'm quite a bit stronger, and I mostly got that way doing 531. So if you think 531 won't work for you after running it for 1 month you're probably wrong. There's no program that's going to work or not work in 1 month, and there's good reasons for that. Specifically, there is a technical element to lifts. You have to get good at the lifts before you can use them to get stronger, and 1 month is not long enough to do that. People who change routines frequently are not going to see much for gains for this very reason.

    BTW all this business about ectoplasmic whatever is pure nonsense. There's absolutely no science behind it that I can see, it appears to be someone's opinion that's got turned into gospel, something that happens all too often in the ftness world, there's even a name for it, bro-science. Might as well be no-science.
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