Overtraining... ok then. What now?
- 08-11-2008, 01:56 AM
Overtraining... ok then. What now?
Ok so apparently im over training, 6 days a week is a little do much ive been told(monday chest/bi, tuesday back/abs, wednesday shoulders/tris, then repeat 3 rotation cycle).
What now, i dont have much of an idea on what a good workout and schedule would be. Can you guys gimme some suggestions? or even make me a workout and schedule completely if youd be so kind?
Im still new at this whole thing and i could really use some help.
Also, what are some good ways to bulk up on good calories, i dont want to go with some bulk powder thats totally carbs, but any ideas on foods or other ways to get extra calories would be great cause i need something like 5,000 a day and im not getting close.
- 08-11-2008, 02:24 AM
you're missing a leg workout!
if i were you, i'd probably do:
day 1: chest,tri,abs
day 2: back, bi
day 3: shoulders, traps
day 4: legs, calves
day 5: rest
repeat or have more rest days in between day 1 - day 4 if you feel like you are exhausted.
- 08-11-2008, 02:27 AM
I'm right there with you. I was just about to start a thread about over-training and you had beat me to it. I am quite a bit older than you at 31 but have the same build, 6' and 170 lbs. I work out five days a week and I'm not seeing the gains I want. I will definately be following this thread.
08-11-2008, 03:25 AM
arms get a light workout from doing chest and back. since you don't want to train your legs (if i remember correctly) try
m - back / abs
t - chest / shoulders
w - arms
th - back / abs
f - chest / shoulders
no matter how much you want to gain weight, it'll be a nightmare without working legs directly though. no squats, no deadlifts = no mass, period. bench only releases 8% more free flowing testosterone to your system, vs the 20% you'll get from squats. its your call though. if you do decide to do legs - my workout is:
M - legs / back
T - chest / shoulders
W - bi's / tri's
Th - legs / back
F - chest / shoulders
08-11-2008, 12:53 PM
i always forget to mention this. I dont have a specific day for legs because theyre already massive, but i still do sqauts and deads to boost testosterone levels for gaining mass. I was just switching off, squats one day, deads the next, then repeat.
M - legs / back
T - chest / shoulders
W - bi's / tri's
Th - legs / back
F - chest / shoulders
I like this idea from suncloud, but its basically the same thing ive been doing, just a little mix up of what areas on what days. Won't i still be over training?
Edit* Just on a side note, wouldn't it be better to separate related areas like chest and triceps on different days so that the secondary muscle group gets a better workout? or does it not matter?
08-11-2008, 01:06 PM
yeah!6 days is too much. 4 days on 3 days off a week, mix it up with cv. maybe use a bit of L- glut
08-11-2008, 01:42 PM
depends on what works for you - thats what works best for me. 6 days is one day too much - but if you look at my workout, each muscle gets worked out twice a week (like DC), because chest and back with no direct work = 1/2 an arm workout. 4 or 5 days a week works for most of us.
deads, squats, clean and press all work abs indirectly, so i don't bother training them.
08-11-2008, 01:47 PM
this is my routine... there is also a 4 and 5 day version on there if you would like to be in the gym more often
SFW and GFH
08-12-2008, 09:02 PM
5 days a week is definately overtraining... i would do a 3 day a week workout.. major muscle groups on each day
Mon-- Chest and back
Fri--Shoulders, bi's and tri's
The only thing is, to get any gain at all you need to be doing high intensity exerting 100% of efoort in all that you do... secondly.. REST..
As far as your eating.. protein is the main factor.. people say 1 to 1.5 grams to every body weight.. try to do this to every LEAN body pound... Overall try to keep a balanced eating habit.. take some protein powder.. i take nitro tech vanilla.. it hasa lot in it creatine etc.. but i have seen some powder that has low carbs i'll get back to you on that.. but yeah.. your still young i'm 18 and am just now knowing what to take and not... calories are a hard thing to take in... eat whatever though, your body type is smaller meaning you'll burn whatever you take in off.. good luck ..
08-12-2008, 11:42 PM
Monday - Chest/Biceps
Tuesday - Rest
Wednesday - Back/Triceps
Thursday - Rest
Friday - Shoulders/Abs/Legs
Sat/Sunday - Rest
Hows this for a lighter workout routine?
08-13-2008, 12:59 AM
shoulders, bicepts, tricepts, forarms, and traps
whenever i feel beat down i will take the day off.. keep my cals high, and have been seeing awsome gains... every 5-7 weeks ill take a whole week off... i hate taking more than a day off though... i get really emotional for some reason.lol
08-15-2008, 06:03 PM
monday-chest and bi
friday-shoulders and tri s
08-23-2008, 08:52 AM
08-25-2008, 09:38 PM
not really it's pretty correct
08-26-2008, 03:15 AM
Heres my new idea for a schedule. 4 days a week, but still hitting each body part twice. Each body part will get about 7-8 sets of a moderately heavy weight until failure(8-10 reps) on various exercises.
Monday-Chest, Shoulders, Abs, Back
Tuesday-Biceps(forearms), Triceps, Legs
Thursday-Chest, Shoulders, Abs, Back
Friday-Biceps(forearms), Triceps, Legs
Please critique and let me know what you think. Is it still overtraining?
08-26-2008, 09:25 AM
First this may sound weird, I would say take an entire week off training. When I was over training about 6 months ago, I took a week off and my muscles exploded with growth. That way you get a good long recoop. Thats just my opinion tho. I still do it every once in awhile. I get more defined and bigger when I do....its a lil weird. But no longer than a week or it goes to belly.... I know lol.
I alot of times I did 3 days a week, each day is 2 muscle groups(though I do abs more) and each muscle group got 3 workouts at 3 sets each of 8-12 reps depending on the workout.
Browse the logs section and see how some people do their workouts if you have free time. You get Great ideas to modify your own past what we offer. Only you know you.
But the 3 day split is true and tried
you shouldn't hit each body part 2 times I dont think it will work well at the moment. You will grow more from 1 day a week for each group. we all have things that work different for us. But when I stopped over training I gained 7 pounds in 3 weeks. And have added more since(this is in the last 6 months)
Glad to see you though man. Its good to see a young lifter asking for real advice instead of just hurting himself in the gym.
08-26-2008, 09:35 AM
08-26-2008, 09:43 AM
08-26-2008, 04:00 PM
I really need to find a 4 day routine that works for me. I'm the sort of person, as much as i hate being a routine its the best for me. I will hate doing the same thing every day but I will skip gym days like I have been if I dont have one
08-26-2008, 04:13 PM
I do a 4 day split, like this:
I do abs on all days. This is what works for me.
08-26-2008, 06:01 PM
Edit* I also involuntarily took a week off, i had no ride to the gym and i cant drive myself just yet so im rearing to get back into the gym.
08-26-2008, 06:43 PM
08-27-2008, 01:18 AM
08-27-2008, 01:22 AM
eeewwwwwwwwww soccer? why
08-27-2008, 06:53 AM
08-27-2008, 11:07 AM
Symptoms of over training are signs of over taxation of the central nervous system. These symptoms include slowed to no gains, reduced immune system function and insomnia.
One of the easiest and fastest way to exhaust your CNS is to train at 100% or to the point failure all the time.
If you claim that this is not over training and it is not causing you CNS burnout then you are likely not training at 100% or to failure like you think you are.
5 days a week is not over training. The number of days one trains is not indicative of over training. The technique (weight and reps and frequency of training each muscle group) are usually an easy way to determine if one is over training. Going to failure on every set on every exercise is over training. It does not produce hypertrophy but it does produce CNS burnout.
There are times that I wish I had a training partner so I could go to failure. But then I realize that I am fortunate that I don't because I would be more inclined to push weight that was much closer to my 100% + and therefore over train. By training alone I can only safely use 80% and therefore maintain a reasonable sound CNS and remain injury free.
Deconditioning is a part of a training cycle. Your body eventually begins to adapt to the work load that it performs. Eventually strength gains and size will slow to stop because you continue to train beyond that adaptation point. This is where periodization plays a huge role. But still, even after utilizing periodization techniques you still need to decondition every 8, 10, 12 weeks...whatever your threshold is.
Anyway...what do I know
08-27-2008, 02:55 PM
08-27-2008, 11:54 PM
08-28-2008, 06:58 AM
B5150 - How can you say training to failure doesn't produce hypertrophy? Yes training 100% too often will lead to overtraining but with adequate recovery how can it fail to produce better results than lifting @ 80% 6 days a week? If you are experienced enough to know your body and read the signs of overtraining then I assure you going flat out in the gym will yield greater gains. Saying the number of days is not indicative of overtraining is a ridiculous statement. Why mention musclegroups if your point is stressing the CNS. It doesn't matter if you train Back or legs, if your body needs rest, it needs rest! Because I go to failure (after warm up sets) I don't need to do many sets. Less time in the gym, less sets and more time to recover. As far as injuries go, I have fewer injuries now than I did when doing high reps. It's not something you can just start doing but with proper technique and a gradual increase in weight and intensity, I think it's the only way for serious bobybuilders to train. I know many bodybuilders swear by volume training but Mike Mentzer once said they were going to grow despite the way they trained, not because if it. If you are genetically gifted ot taking steroids then you will grow if you lift weights following either principle. However, if like me you find it difficult to add lean muscle, then I recommend you at least try the high intensity principle. If you are adding pounds of muscle with only 80% effort then congratulations but if not, what have you got to lose?
08-28-2008, 08:38 AM
I agree, the key is to limit the number of sets you do if you train to failure and then all is good. I like to do a combination of things in one session. I normally train w/compound movements at higher reps (used to go lower reps with higher weight, but I lowered the weight and go higher reps now with better form and focus, more payoff this way), and then do a couple heavy isolation sets to failure. In and out in 40min unless I'm hanging out talking after.
08-28-2008, 08:47 AM
In my opinion, with our stats and your age i dont know if you play sports, regardless it doesnt matter.
Read this article...http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...or_dummies&cr=
I know I know you are going to say you just want to get jacked and that kind of lifting is for athletes, but you need to start with a base. I have seen several athletes gewt very strong and muscular training movements and not body parts (even though that can go hand and hand sometimes) and also these athletes run full body routines, just there is a different emphasis on which part of the body you are working. I have gone to more a powerlifter/olympic/athlete style of training for my sport, and I have never been stronger and leaner. I Know i will recieve some hate mail for this but I would ditch body part training I think its ****.
08-28-2008, 08:48 AM
oh yeah...and if you feel run down...run a Deload week. Just cut your volume a little and dont go to failure. Or just keep yourself to one 1-2 max effort sets (90% +). Oh yeah bodybuilders, I said max effort lol.
08-29-2008, 07:04 PM
08-29-2008, 09:41 PM
Well, i hope the best to you but that is a sure fire way to develop muscle imbalances and not reap optimal benefits.
08-30-2008, 01:18 AM
08-30-2008, 01:30 AM
08-30-2008, 04:05 PM
08-30-2008, 11:45 PM
Explain to me how thats complicated, if you decided to follow that program how it is outlined from the article you would simply plug in an exercise for what is listed in the example at the bottom. That literally is almost as simply as it gets. And it gives you a ton of freedom. What are you confused about? And by the way...it works.
08-31-2008, 07:49 AM
CHEST (Horizontal Pushing Movements):
A - Dumbbell: Flat, incline, or decline presses (pronated, semi-pronated, neutral grips)
B - Barbell: Flat, incline, or decline presses
BACK (Horizontal Pulling Movements):
A - Seated Rows (various attachments and various grips)
B - Dumbbell Rows
BACK (Vertical Pulling Movements):
A - Pull-ups
B - Chin-ups
SHOULDERS (Vertical Pushing Movements):
A - Standing Military Press (barbell or dumbbell)
B - Push Press (barbell or dumbbell)
(Lower Body Movements):
A - Barbell Back Squat (full squats, 1 & 1/4 squats, heels elevated, etc.)
B - Barbell Front Squat (same as above)
A - Rack Pulls (various heights)
B - Conventional Deadlifts (add bands, chains)
Not for nothing but Hbs6 is right. It is opretty damned simple. Pick one of each one week. Then pick the other the next week.
Week 1 - A's
Week 2 - B's
You could go chest/legs, back/shoulder or chest/back - shoulders/legs. Actually if you did it right you could work your whole body twice a week A's then B's. Simple!
08-31-2008, 09:33 AM
Yeah and I am sorry I didnt mean to sound liek I was talking down to ya, i went through a lot of programming flaws and I am sure I will STILL go through a lot of programming flaws as I keep training. But what B5150 posted is taking that program (that i used as an example) and just showing if you want to use it like Gentilcore posted it. BUt there is a ton of freedom with that program, so put movements in there you like. But I would stick with free weighst for the most part.
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