The Official "Other Companies That Have Had Contamination Issues" Contest

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    I look forward to receiving the free products, for Patrick to test.
    Too bad someone has already posted those on the second page....and as a consumer, I thought this promo was quite clever.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Subber10 View Post
    Too bad someone has already posted those on the second page....
    Jen-On Herbal Science International, Inc. Issues A Voluntary Nationwide Recall of H S Joy of Love, a Product Marketed as a Dietary Supplement
    ...lab analysis by FDA of H S Joy of Love samples found the product contains Piperadino Vardenafil, an analog of Vardenafil, an FDA-approved drug used as treatment for male Erectile Dysfunction (ED). Piperadino Vardenafil is close in structure to Vardenafil and is expected to possess a similar pharmacological and adverse event profile.
    Ebek, Inc. Issues Voluntary Nationwide Recall of Liviro3, a Product Marketed as a Dietary Supplement
    ...lab analysis by FDA of Liviro3 samples found the product contains tadalafil, an FDA-approved drug used to treat erectile dysfunction (ED), making Liviro3 an unapproved drug.
    ^ Those two weren't posted anywhere else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Subber10 View Post
    and as a consumer, I thought this promo was quite clever.
    It's an obvious attempt to deflect attention and point fingers elsewhere. I don't think it's clever.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    It's an obvious attempt to deflect attention and point fingers elsewhere. I don't think it's clever.
    is it as clever as testing a competitors product without a proper chain of authority and releasing the results anonymously?

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Taurus Nut. View Post
    If anyone can recall them and post them in the thread, they can win up to $250 in FREE Taurus Supplements. Rules are: no rumors must either be admitted by the company or an action taken:

    I think this contest should bring some sanity back to the situation...

    I will start things off:

    Suspended Philadelphia Phillies reliever J.C. Romero sues supplement manufacturer - ESPN

    "One should consider the source and the fact that the statement fails to address the presence of androstenedione, a controlled substance, in 6-OXO EXTREME," Cornwell wrote in a two-sentence e-mail to the Associated Press. "In my opinion, after injury and age, companies like Proviant may be the next greatest threat to the careers of athletes who use nutritional supplements."

    I don't know 100% if this has been confirmed just alleged in this news story. I will do a FOIA request on Proviant and find out if indeed 6-OXO and 6-OXO Extreme was contaminated. Since the company was Chapter 7 a few years back, I doubt I can get a company rep to reply. If an above board company like Proviant who had their own manufacturing and testing facilities could have this happen it's obviously a problem that just happens from time to time.

    after a long investigation no charges were ever filed. No laws were broken. So I am not sure this should be given equal weight to the other fiascos you mention here

    also, Proviant never declared bankruptcy as you suggested. It just ceased to operate. I was one of the owners of Proviant

  5. It's an obvious attempt to deflect attention and point fingers elsewhere. I don't think it's clever.[/QUOTE]

    Too be honest, i started reading the first one and recognized all of them and figured you were just posting stuff to make a bitter point. But, as far as this promo is concerned, this is marketing. Welcome to big business. Every major company in america does this type of marketing. My wife has her bachelors in marketing and her MBA and we discussed this last night cause I thought it was rather funny and clever and she thought the same thing. She said it was a very smart business move.
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  6. Marketing? Yes, Clever? Yes, an industry issue? Also Yes. Some are from a lack of product oversight and some are deliberate. It's not a good situation either way for the industry.
    Always open light. Itís not what you open with, itís what you finish with. Louie Simmons

  7. Quote Originally Posted by AZMIDLYF View Post
    Marketing? Yes, Clever? Yes, an industry issue? Also Yes. Some are from a lack of product oversight and some are deliberate. It's not a good situation either way for the industry.
    Never said it was good, but I agree with you. This isn't a good situation at all for the industry. I feel Taurus is handling this pretty good and this promo can go a long way in helping out with the company's future. Remember that they are still a new and small business.

    I will agree on one thing with Henry, Taurus BigK didn't handle this properly on the other board and that is why he's no longer with them too. But, that is another matter that's not for this thread. TN is simply trying to demonstate that mistakes happen and that they are moving forward.

  8. Agreed. It wasn't good that it happened and it is a shame. But Taurus didn't do this intentionally and they are trying to make up for it and move forward just like some other companies have done which I think is more the point of this thread. If anyone is to blame it's the Chinese.
    Athletic Xtreme Team REP
    http://www.AthleticX.net/
    AXHOLE BY NATURE
  9. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
    MidwestBeast's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by flightposite View Post
    If anyone is to blame it's the Chinese.
    Shhhhhhh!!!!!! They'll hear you!

    And while I realize what I'm about to reference was Japanese and not Chinese, I feel the concept is still relevant:

    I'm going home to play with all of my Chinpokomon dolls!


  10. "mistakes happen and Chinese suppliers often screw you"............

    I'm sorry I've got to call BullS^it !

    You sir and or your contract mfg got screwed and you passed it on to us your consumer's.

    What do these so called Chinese have do with anything !!! obviously there is no QA involved, did you make this stuff in the basement - good grief is right.

    Let me see if I can remember, mass exodus of rep's followed by disclosure of spiked supp, hum interesting ??? discuss
  11. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
    MidwestBeast's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by scoooter View Post
    "mistakes happen and Chinese suppliers often screw you"............

    I'm sorry I've got to call BullS^it !

    You sir and or your contract mfg got screwed and you passed it on to us your consumer's.

    What do these so called Chinese have do with anything !!! obviously there is no QA involved, did you make this stuff in the basement - good grief is right.

    Let me see if I can remember, mass exodus of rep's followed by disclosure of spiked supp, hum interesting ??? discuss
    FWIW, I liked pretty much (if not) the entire Taurus rep team. I talked to one of the guys after he left and his reasons, as best as I can tell, were/are unrelated to this.

    Obviously I'm not a rep for them, so I don't have the insight that everyone from Taurus does, but I just felt that was worth sharing.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by flightposite View Post
    Agreed. It wasn't good that it happened and it is a shame. But Taurus didn't do this intentionally and they are trying to make up for it and move forward just like some other companies have done which I think is more the point of this thread. If anyone is to blame it's the Chinese.
    Ok accepted, they (Taurus) didn't do this intentionally, but they also didn't do anything to prevent it...point & counter point

  13. Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast View Post
    FWIW, I liked pretty much (if not) the entire Taurus rep team. I talked to one of the guys after he left and his reasons, as best as I can tell, were/are unrelated to this.

    Obviously I'm not a rep for them, so I don't have the insight that everyone from Taurus does, but I just felt that was worth sharing.
    Thanks ! good info.. FWIW I completely enjoyed their supp Whyked, hope nothing is found in that one.
  14. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
    MidwestBeast's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by scoooter View Post
    Thanks ! good info.. FWIW I completely enjoyed their supp Whyked, hope nothing is found in that one.
    Anytime. And Wyked is great...it's better with a dash of meth


  15. Inb4 promo thread lock
    ForeRunner Labs
    The Future of Human Performance
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  16. Quote Originally Posted by scoooter View Post
    Ok accepted, they (Taurus) didn't do this intentionally, but they also didn't do anything to prevent it...point & counter point
    but their point in this thread is that not retesting your raws, or not retesting every batch of raws has been a standard in supplement companies forever. Thats why although the FDA sucks balls, the idea of enforcing cGMP manufacturing makes sense as you have to test each batch of raws, then retest whole product once its made.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Inb4 promo thread lock
    Hey, I'm not bashing...just a little 60 minuets type investigating that's all. I'd like to hear from Taurus about their reaction plan and future preventative actions because I do like their products quite alot.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    but their point in this thread is that not retesting your raws, or not retesting every batch of raws has been a standard in supplement companies forever. Thats why although the FDA sucks balls, the idea of enforcing cGMP manufacturing makes sense as you have to test each batch of raws, then retest whole product once its made.
    Should start a thread listing the names of all companies that comply with cGMP manufacturing practices, stick to ordering from those companies.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by scoooter View Post
    Hey, I'm not bashing...just a little 60 minuets type investigating that's all. I'd like to hear from Taurus about their reaction plan and future preventative actions because I do like their products quite alot.
    Agreed. Would be more useful than posting this junk
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    The Future of Human Performance
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  20. Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    gotta be cGMP certified!

    being gmp certified does not prevent you from being a **** up. also, just cuz you were compliant with the rules when they audited you and gave you the stamp of approval doesnt mean you continue to do things correctly once they leave the premises

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    being gmp certified does not prevent you from being a **** up. also, just cuz you were compliant with the rules when they audited you and gave you the stamp of approval doesnt mean you continue to do things correctly once they leave the premises
    this is quite true, not like its impossible to fudge some log book entries.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by flightposite View Post
    Agreed. It wasn't good that it happened and it is a shame. But Taurus didn't do this intentionally and they are trying to make up for it and move forward just like some other companies have done which I think is more the point of this thread. If anyone is to blame it's the Chinese.

    the way to move forward is to use me to identify what is in their raws. others that have screwed up ended up doing this and they have not screwed up since

  23. Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    Should start a thread listing the names of all companies that comply with cGMP manufacturing practices, stick to ordering from those companies.

    but most of the companies in sports nutrition are not manufacturers. they are just marketers. GMP is for the most part relevant for manufacturers of the product

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    the way to move forward is to use me to identify what is in their raws. others that have screwed up ended up doing this and they have not screwed up since
    going a little off topic but what about when there is no known standard to test to - such as was the case for 95% nettle extract

    Oh almost forgot about the contest, I'm sure I could find some posts about the Nettle fiasco

  25. Quote Originally Posted by scoooter View Post
    going a little off topic but what about when there is no known standard to test to - such as was the case for 95% nettle extract

    Oh almost forgot about the contest, I'm sure I could find some posts about the Nettle fiasco

    my testing is not quantitative. Its just to identify what I see in the sample. standards are necessary for quantitative analysis but not qualitative

    I use the mass spectrometer to identify what is in the material. It is pretty reliable and for qualitative purposes is fine.

  26. I was going to reply to a post PA made but when I got to the laptop it was deleted.

    The answer to it is "not as far as I am aware" lol.
    PEScience Representative
    http://pescience.com/insider
    http://selectprotein.com

  27. Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    I was going to reply to a post PA made but when I got to the laptop it was deleted.

    The answer to it is "not as far as I am aware" lol.
    the answer was around 50% from what i saw

    anyway lets just drop it and move forward. hopefully they will employ me to test their raws like almost a dozen companies have done throughout the years

  28. Well, that makes more sense that your testing is qualitative since it explains a lot. Why not just contact me and tell me about it? I will never figure that one out...

    I will share with Patrick now, why I doubted his assertions. I had the 7-Keto-etio tested and it came back an exact match on MW and the chemist went so far as to describe the compound since no standard exists for it. So, when you said it "wasn't there" then I had no reason to believe the validity of any of your testing.

    One other point of clarification and I think Patrick should note this part since his products are "transdermals". 7-KE IS NOT AND WAS NEVER a dietary supplement, it was a cosmetic. As I stated upon launch it isn't a GMP product. As a cosmetic it's a different set of standards.

    Anyway, it appears that the amount is small anyway and that is what is the normal part of doing business with China, you pay for one thing and they "fudge" a bit on the purity, which is bull**** but it happens.

    Anyway, we are working more closely with our lab to develop what is an acceptable purity. Remember 95% pure is still 5% something else. I don't usually concern myself with such a small amount unless I know the starting material is a CIII. In this case I didn't think it was (it may not be since I am not a chemist). For example if I was going to order 1-DHEA I would certainly be nervous because I know 1-ADione is probably the starting material or at least a step in the process.

    Finally, I will shed some light on Taurus Big K. I've known this guy for 4 years and he ran into some major life problems. Since no one knows his real identity I will share a little. Drugs problem, wife left him, kids to feed etc... I paid for a flight to Michigan, let him stay with me and gave him a job with Taurus to help out with online promotions to help him try and get his life back in order . In a nutshell he couldn't handle it and I ended up having to fly him home with some cash in his pocket. So, for my charity I am out 3k and a bunch of really good reps.

    I try to help people and sometimes it backfires. I had no idea Taurus Big K would be such a mess to our reps. I can't believe he did that much damage in such a short amount of time. lol Sometimes trying to be kind and generous backfires and you get screwed but I just believe that in life one should try to help others who have lost everything. Usually it's for a good reason that they are broke, but occasionally your charity really pans out and the person turns his life around. If not for someone giving them the chance then they would never be able to get started. This one didn't work out but trying to help other people is never a failure for me even when they fail.

  29. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

    the way to move forward is to use me to identify what is in their raws. others that have screwed up ended up doing this and they have not screwed up since
    If that's what work then I support it.
    Athletic Xtreme Team REP
    http://www.AthleticX.net/
    AXHOLE BY NATURE

  30. Quote Originally Posted by Taurus Nut.
    Well, that makes more sense that your testing is qualitative since it explains a lot. Why not just contact me and tell me about it? I will never figure that one out...

    I will share with Patrick now, why I doubted his assertions. I had the 7-Keto-etio tested and it came back an exact match on MW and the chemist went so far as to describe the compound since no standard exists for it. So, when you said it "wasn't there" then I had no reason to believe the validity of any of your testing.

    One other point of clarification and I think Patrick should note this part since his products are "transdermals". 7-KE IS NOT AND WAS NEVER a dietary supplement, it was a cosmetic. As I stated upon launch it isn't a GMP product. As a cosmetic it's a different set of standards.

    Anyway, it appears that the amount is small anyway and that is what is the normal part of doing business with China, you pay for one thing and they "fudge" a bit on the purity, which is bull**** but it happens.

    Anyway, we are working more closely with our lab to develop what is an acceptable purity. Remember 95% pure is still 5% something else. I don't usually concern myself with such a small amount unless I know the starting material is a CIII. In this case I didn't think it was (it may not be since I am not a chemist). For example if I was going to order 1-DHEA I would certainly be nervous because I know 1-ADione is probably the starting material or at least a step in the process.

    Finally, I will shed some light on Taurus Big K. I've known this guy for 4 years and he ran into some major life problems. Since no one knows his real identity I will share a little. Drugs problem, wife left him, kids to feed etc... I paid for a flight to Michigan, let him stay with me and gave him a job with Taurus to help out with online promotions to help him try and get his life back in order . In a nutshell he couldn't handle it and I ended up having to fly him home with some cash in his pocket. So, for my charity I am out 3k and a bunch of really good reps.

    I try to help people and sometimes it backfires. I had no idea Taurus Big K would be such a mess to our reps. I can't believe he did that much damage in such a short amount of time. lol Sometimes trying to be kind and generous backfires and you get screwed but I just believe that in life one should try to help others who have lost everything. Usually it's for a good reason that they are broke, but occasionally your charity really pans out and the person turns his life around. If not for someone giving them the chance then they would never be able to get started. This one didn't work out but trying to help other people is never a failure for me even when they fail.
    I definitely admire and respect you for that. And I'm sorry it ended up not working out. But keep doing what your doing.
    Athletic Xtreme Team REP
    http://www.AthleticX.net/
    AXHOLE BY NATURE
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