What do you think is the perfect post workout recipe??

[Wordz_Worf]

What do you guys consider to be the ultimate post workout supplement routine/recipe???

My post workout routine needs to be improved I think.

Currently,I take a serving of Storm + Universal BCAA Stack(Bcaa's + Glutamine) right after I'm done with my last rep.

About 20-25 minutes later,I'll drink a shake with 40 grams of whey protein,ingest some fast carbs like 2 Bananas or Dextrose,and take 3 tables of Uni-Liver and one capsule of Vitamin C & E.

Should I tweak anything?? Maybe add some more bulk BCAA's to the Storm/Bcaa mix,or maybe take some Dextrose with it aswell??

 

[Proteinpowda]

THIS SUCKS! I'm not talking out of my ass either b/c I've given a presentation on this subject and written an article on it:
First off I'm not fond of this Storm thing. Show me a single study showing that a NO booster works. And NO boosts are supposed to work via causing vasodilation. Vasodilation does not mean increased uptake into muscle cells. That's the function of GLUT transporters.
Second you are not consuming any carbs or protein immedietly post-workout. Get some carbs and protein in there, preferably whey isolate/hydrosolate and dextrose. BCAAs are a good adjunct like leucine etc. Protein and CHO's together have a synergestic effect on insulin and take you out of a catabolic environment and open the flood gates to the pouring in of nutrients and creating an anabolic environment. Naturally you want to do this as fast as possible.
Well you're not.
You have no carbs and then no protein.
Then you finally get some carbs. But a bannana? Fructose is a slower to metabolize sugar. It needs to be processed in the liver first and is preferentially stored as fat. Also not to mention you're getting it in the form of a banana which has fiber and will slow the rate of absorption. LOW GI!

So here's what you do: First off I don't see any need to waste money on the Storm. Just get yourself some plain old micronized creatine. They're a myriad of studies on it and I believe it works, I have yet to see a study from a manufacturer that shows the other forms of creatine are better.
So take your Storm with both dextrose and either whey isolate or dextrose. The dextrose or some other fastly digesting carb is the most important! This will IMPROVE your insulin sensitivity profile for the rest of the day.
Next what has been showing a lot of benefit is having a shake with some carbs while your training or before. Personally I think a great strategy is a pop tart or two with a shake a half hour before training. Yes I said pop tart.

Also about an hour after your post workout shake have a high carb meal with protein. And eat some more calories man; you sound anorexic for a bodybuilder. This is the most important meal of the day other than breakfast. Are you one of the 120lb 16 y/o's afraid to gain a lab and not see your pretend ab muslces or something? No! You're a 22 y/o male. So Eat up!

Also read my article on the subject:

John Berardi - Optimizing Insulin Sensitivity and Body Composition Through Diet and Exercise

 

[bigstabile]

My current "routine" is...

Immediatly post workout I have a drink with 2 servings excell, 10g leucine, 2.5g cee, 3g taurine, 1g vit. c, 400iu vit. e, 2 super antioxidants caps (now foods), and 50g of carbs in the form of dextrose/maltodextrin (50/50 mix). Then about 30mins after that I have about 40g whey, 90g of carbs in the form of 50 from dex/malto and 40 from oats with 1 glucophase (designer supps.), 1 opti men multi (optimum nutrition) and 1 super enzyme (now foods). Then 1.5-2 hours after that I'll have "dinner" usually chicken, pasta, bread, veggies and salad.

 

[TheFollistatin]

Just before my very last set I chug down.
NOW Foods Carbo gain - 50g MaltoDextrin.
Dymatize Elite Whey - 46g protein.
1 Nature Made Anti-oxidant formula.

I drink my creatine/NO just before and between sets.
1 large scoop Ultimate Nutrition Horsepower, 2.2L water in a jug with about 1/2 a "tub packet" of 4C "Totally Light". 4C "Totally Light" is like Crystal light except it has no aspartame - uses splenda - and has a healthy dose of vitamin C - tastes good too.

UN Horsepower is prob. the best mix of ingredients I know of at a good price. I'd recommend it if you have a shaker and 4C totally light because it tastes.....no so great. Doesnt mix too well unless you shake it up good.

 

[TeamSavage]

2 scoops ON Pro Complex, with some dextrose, is all you need PWO (or at least all I need). If you really want to get fancy, you can add some extra leucine.

And as others have said, it's better to take your PWO whey and carbs immediately PWO.

 

[Rodja]

I use about 30g of whey, 1/2 C of oats, fruit (either a banana, pineapple, or raisins), 200mg of NRALA immediately postworkout. Pre/during I use 4 scoops of Xtend and 1.5 scoops of Substance.

 

[TeamSavage]

I use about 30g of whey, 1/2 C of oats, fruit (either a banana, pineapple, or raisins), 200mg of NRALA immediately postworkout. Pre/during I use 4 scoops of Xtend and 1.5 scoops of Substance.

Rodja - Do you use the NRALA at other times of the day, or just PWO?

 

[Rodja]

Rodja - Do you use the NRALA at other times of the day, or just PWO?

I use it in the morning with breakfast and at night before bed.

 

[agentgt]

I have experimented many years on what works best for pre/during/post workout nutrition and here's my 2 cents:

1 Hour prior: Hydrolyzed whey or WPI, no carbs

30 minutes before: Creatine, Glycerin(ol) and citrulline malate (this more useful if you do high reps ...ie for 5x5 training its rather useless),
32 ounces of Water

10 minutes before: Chocamine, Coffee, Vitamin E, Vitamin B complex, Rhodiolia Rosea, more water and touch of sodium (the sodium is important) (antioxidants an neural stimulation)

While exercising I drink a hydrolyzed protein 20 grams, BCAA 10 grams, 50%/50% Dextrose/Maltodextrin 60-80 grams (google on that and you will find that 1/1 is the ideal ratio of dextrose/malto ) I also have a very minute of plain sugar 5 grams (sugar packet) mixed with 32 ounce of water. When you drink about half refill with more water.

Do not worry that you won't be able to digest the protein while working out. I guarentee you will be fine if you use hydrolyzed whey, a ton of water and sip on it slowly while working out.

When your done take K-RALA, water with sodium + more creatine. The K-RALA is important if you are trying to loose weight. Later on take more protein. I like Milk isolate protein best because I think whey is seriously overrated. (I'll let you google why whey is kind of overrated) Whey is good for pre and during the workout but for all other times I think it sucks.

 

[wrkn4bigrmusles]

2 scoops ON Whey with one packet of the Instant Oatmeal the sugery kind.. works great for me

 

[SIRRBM]

PROTEINPOWDA is correct in everything that he is saying!

 

[ugab37]

For me, the best pwo formula is:

-2 scoops GFPro protein (cherry)
-2 scoops Vitargo (orange)
-2 servings excell (love the fruitpunch)
-2oz of goji juice
-2cups of water

Blend and enjoy. It actually tastes really good

 

[Jeffrw]

I do two scoops waxy maize starch, 10g bcaa's, 5g glutamine and 3g cee. I then have real food a half hour later...preferably fish, rice and broccoli.

The above protocol is where I've seen the best results. But every step of the way I've gotten better results. I used to just do protein, then it was protein and simple carbs, then protein and complex carbs and now what I currently do. And each time I've seen better results than the previous.

 

[Wordz_Worf]

If I mix my Storm with Protein,won't that hinder the absorbtion of it??

I guess I should experiment and see what works best.

Maybe a Grape flavored Isolate mixed with the Storm with be good.

 

[Cody3308]

I would take the storm either pre workout or half and half.
I would sip the BCAA's right before and during the workout, post workout: whey and fast carbs(dex/malt), then 30 mins later a slow protein(egg whites for me) with oatmeal and blueberries.

Thats if you are eating a real meal 1.5 to 2 hours before you workout, also the amount of carbs and protein depend on how much you weigh.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

That's the function of GLUT transporters.

GLUT4

Protein and CHO's together have a synergestic effect on insulin and take you out of a catabolic environment and open the flood gates to the pouring in of nutrients and creating an anabolic environment.

Actually its insulin + amino acids that enhance eIF2B.

Naturally you want to do this as fast as possible.

Speed has little effect, amount does along with amino acid availability. Glycogen resynthesis and protein synthesis are not proportional and glycogen replenishment is biphasic and insulin independent in its first phase.

Also not to mention you're getting it in the form of a banana which has fiber and will slow the rate of absorption. LOW GI!

It will have zero effect in a post absortative state.

The dextrose or some other fastly digesting carb is the most important!

Wrong. Amino acids are the nutrient signals for protein synthesis. Glycogen replenishment happens regardless and the amount of insulin needed for the syngergistic effect (effect on eIF2B) is small.

This will IMPROVE your insulin sensitivity profile for the rest of the day.

Results of exercise, not a high GI carb source.

Next what has been showing a lot of benefit is having a shake with some carbs while your training or before.

Agreed.

Personally I think a great strategy is a pop tart or two with a shake a half hour before training. Yes I said pop tart.

Not the best option.

John Berardi - Optimizing Insulin Sensitivity and Body Composition Through Diet and Exercise

You need more depth and focus beyond just the "protein + carb" synergism that Tipton and Ivy have stated for years. Its not about the GI or insulin really, its about amino acids and the amounts of insulin needed.

I do like much of it though.

 

[Proteinpowda]

GLUT4


Actually its insulin + amino acids that enhance eIF2B.



Speed has little effect, amount does along with amino acid availability. Glycogen resynthesis and protein synthesis are not proportional and glycogen replenishment is biphasic and insulin independent in its first phase.



It will have zero effect in a post absortative state.



Wrong. Amino acids are the nutrient signals for protein synthesis. Glycogen replenishment happens regardless and the amount of insulin needed for the syngergistic effect (effect on eIF2B) is small.

Results of exercise, not a high GI carb source.
Agreed.


Not the best option.




You need more depth and focus beyond just the "protein + carb" synergism that Tipton and Ivy have stated for years. Its not about the GI or insulin really, its about amino acids and the amounts of insulin needed.

I do like much of it though.

Wow someone that has read Tipton's stuff....I'm impressed.
If you have other studies about some of the stuff you'd mention send them over and I'd be happy to read them. I am completly unfamiliar with eIF2B though....care to tell me about it?

And yes it's Glut-4 for muscle tissue. I didn't feel that level of detail was neccessary.
As far as I know ingesting CHO's postworkout will enhance insulin sensitivity for the rest of the day; or at least I was told this by someone working on her masters or doctorate in this area.
Thanks for the Kudos.

 

[GO_OUTSIDE!]

Protein powda, you said you wre working on a post workout drink, what has become of it?

The insulin index of food seems to be determined by how much food is ingested right? So... would that mean that the glycemic load is more important than the glycemic index?
I am getting a little confused.

I have been reading all the information on John Berardi's website and am now interested in acid balance. What is a good method for determining ones current acid/base level. I have always hit that burn very early.

People check out these supplement studies:
John Berardi - ACSM 2004

 

[Proteinpowda]

Protein powda, you said you wre working on a post workout drink, what has become of it?

The insulin index of food seems to be determined by how much food is ingested right? So... would that mean that the glycemic load is more important than the glycemic index?
I am getting a little confused.

I have been reading all the information on John Berardi's website and am now interested in acid balance. What is a good method for determining ones current acid/base level. I have always hit that burn very early.

People check out these supplement studies:
John Berardi - ACSM 2004

I'm not working on a PWO drink. I'm not too sure about the acid base balance. That's generally a function of veggies vs. meat intake I think.
Glycemic load and GI index are both important.

 

[GO_OUTSIDE!]

I'm not working on a PWO drink. .

I thought you were John Brerardi. After I posted I found something called surge.

 

[Proteinpowda]

I thought you were John Brerardi. After I posted I found something called surge.

LOL I am definetly not Dr. Berardi!

I just have an article on his site; that's all.

Berardi is one smart man though!

And Surge is made by Biotest. It's a good product just over-priced. And while I like the taste and their forumites do over their; other people I have given it too don't. I'll admit the aftertaste sucks. And if you use it you need to independently add creatine to it.

 

[CROWLER]

Y such a need for slamming something immediately after a workout?

If you do your pre workout and workout drink/meal do you really feel there is a need for such a rush to eat/drink something post workout and why use low GIs?


CROWLER

 

[Rodja]

Y such a need for slamming something immediately after a workout?

If you do your pre workout and workout drink/meal do you really feel there is a need for such a rush to eat/drink something post workout and why use low GIs?


CROWLER

Low GI carbs reduce the possibility for fat gain. Research has shown that glycogen resynthesis is a longer process and the amount of carbs consumed in the day is more improtant than wolfing down large amounts of high GI carbs.
I usually use oats and fruit to have a simple and complex carb combo after I workout.

 

[CROWLER]

oops My bad I meant to say why HIGH GI carbs which was mentioned above lol


CROWLER

 

[Force of Green]

Low GI carbs reduce the possibility for fat gain. Research has shown that glycogen resynthesis is a longer process and the amount of carbs consumed in the day is more improtant than wolfing down large amounts of high GI carbs.
I usually use oats and fruit to have a simple and complex carb combo after I workout.

Good point. I have tried carb timing with loads of high GI carbs like those RTD carb drinks Carboforce and it definitely didn't work for me the way I thought considering the effort I put into timing everything and whatnot. Now I'm just a whole foods, intuitive-eating advocate. I will have quality, whole foods throughout the day, portioned accordingly and pre-workout I'll have a meal like chicken, 40 grams of brown rice and veggies... then I'll workout over an hour later. I start out with a 10 minute warmup of hard walking on a 15 degree incline then jump to split volume/HIT training for 45 minutes, then a hell-blazing 20 minutes of cardio. Afterwards I'll have about 100 grams of white rice (w/splenda) and 60 grams ALRI whey protein. 30 minutes after that I'll have a sweet potato, chicken and veggies for a nice whole meal. I am sick of worrying about, "Oh Lordy... 4 scoops of this powdered BCAA combo, 1 scoop of my NO pumper, 20 grams of my dextrose fruit punch flavor crap, then more BCAAs, then whey isolate with 1 scoop dextrose and 2 scoops maltodextrin, then 1 serving casein..." All this powder ****, it's all annoying to me and I am tired of consuming more powder than a coke house. Shakes are good after a workout, before bed, and maybe some filler shakes here and there, but don't consume your life with containers of crap. I feel much better taking whole foods more often anyhow.

TO EACH HIS OWN....

I like the oatmeal and fruit option with the shake after the workout though. Maybe I'll try that and see how I feel and reload.

 

[TeamSavage]

. I am sick of worrying about, "Oh Lordy... 4 scoops of this powdered BCAA combo, 1 scoop of my NO pumper, 20 grams of my dextrose fruit punch flavor crap, then more BCAAs, then whey isolate with 1 scoop dextrose and 2 scoops maltodextrin, then 1 serving casein..." All this powder ****, it's all annoying to me and I am tired of consuming more powder than a coke house. Shakes are good after a workout, before bed, and maybe some filler shakes here and there, but don't consume your life with containers of crap. I feel much better taking whole foods more often anyhow.

:goodpost:

 

[freezito]

i have too wait 15 minutes before i can take my pwo meal due too using AP.

 

[GO_OUTSIDE!]

i have too wait 15 minutes before i can take my pwo meal due too using AP.

Hows that AP working for you?

 

[freezito]

Its good. My muscles feel fuller and more defined. Its only been about a week so I exspect bigger and better things. Ive also been stronger and have had more stamina in the gym but I attribute that too the powerfull.

 

[HDeuce7]

Everybody here seems to have slightly different opinions on what needs to be included in your post-workout drink/meal. What are the basic supplements/products that need to be included for post-workout. I ask this because I am revamping my supplements and what I take pre-workout and post-workout. Right now, all I take post workout is some BCAAs and 48g of whey.

 

[TeamSavage]

What are the basic supplements/products that need to be included for post-workout.

Whey and some carbs. That's it.

 

[GO_OUTSIDE!]

Everybody here seems to have slightly different opinions on what needs to be included in your post-workout drink/meal. What are the basic supplements/products that need to be included for post-workout. I ask this because I am revamping my supplements and what I take pre-workout and post-workout. Right now, all I take post workout is some BCAAs and 48g of whey.

The biggest debate I have seen here is over the type of carbohydrate you use hi GI or low GI. But everything I've read has kept the numbers similar: 2grams/lb carbohydrate+1gram/lb hydrolyzed whey protein+ 5-10grams Glutamine + 5-10grams creatine +1litre H2O.
I add 5grams BCAA +1gram V-C +1gram V-E. If you want fast hi GI carbs use 50%dextrose 50%maltodextrin, drink half, sip other half over next 45min. Adjust carbs based on your response. reduce carbs by 50% when cutting.
Personally I'd rather use Oats than dextrose but I've read so much information proclaiming the advantages of hi GI carbs I'm giving them a shot, hope I dont catch typeII diabetes and a fat ass.

 

[Force of Green]

Whey and some carbs. That's it.

Indeed. I try not to complicate things either. A couple heapings of ALRI's whey protein and a carb formula. I'm messing around with different whole foods with different glycemic load ratings to see which is better post-workout and with AP. Today is 2 servings of cream of wheat and 1 serving of long grain enriched white rice. 1 is medium glycemic load and the other is medium/low. We'll see. Right around 600 cals postworkout, nice round number.

 

[kabuki]

i keep it simple. Whey Protein Isolate, and Juice....because I lift at home I can immediatly run a variety of stuff through the juicer post workout (2-3cups juice) making fresh juice from carrots, apples, beets, kale, etc. This gives me a carb source and a very high micronutrient/antioxidint source post workout as well.

I also take K-R-ALA at that time, but will be switching over to AP when i get the chance. I'll have to add some more carbs when i do that, don't know yet if it will be complex, frutcose(more juice), or dextrose.

Pre workout i eat 1 to 1.5 cups oatmeal, 1 spoon peanut butter, and whey concentrate shake.

 

[Force of Green]

i keep it simple. Whey Protein Isolate, and Juice....because I lift at home I can immediatly run a variety of stuff through the juicer post workout (2-3cups juice) making fresh juice from carrots, apples, beets, kale, etc. This gives me a carb source and a very high micronutrient/antioxidint source post workout as well.

I also take K-R-ALA at that time, but will be switching over to AP when i get the chance. I'll have to add some more carbs when i do that, don't know yet if it will be complex, frutcose(more juice), or dextrose.

Pre workout i eat 1 to 1.5 cups oatmeal, 1 spoon peanut butter, and whey concentrate shake.

I want a juicer!
Make sure you add complex carbs after AP no matter what! If you have the time, my advice for PWO intake outline would be this:

1. Pop the AP when your workout has 15 minutes left to wind-down.

2. Drink your juice immediately after and keep this in mind-

Do not eat acid fruits with proteins. This is to say, oranges, tomatoes, lemons, pineapples, etc., should not be eaten with meat, eggs, cheese or nuts. Acid fruits seriously hamper protein digestion and results in putrefaction. Milk and orange juice, while by no means an indigestible combination, is far from a good combination. Orange juice and eggs form an even worse combination.

3. Consume your whey protein shake persay... 10 minutes later with a bowl of oatmeal (Use a heaping 1/2 cup which will yield roughly 45 grams complex carbs)

AP will shock you with it's capabilities and versatility, so trust me and don't worry about overdoing the carbs. This should be a nice little cocktail for liver glycogen replacement, muscle replenishment, and sustained energy.

Eat your next whole food meal within 2 hours later.

 

[kabuki]

I want a juicer!
Make sure you add complex carbs after AP no matter what! If you have the time, my advice for PWO intake outline would be this:

1. Pop the AP when your workout has 15 minutes left to wind-down.

2. Drink your juice immediately after and keep this in mind-



3. Consume your whey protein shake persay... 10 minutes later with a bowl of oatmeal (Use a heaping 1/2 cup which will yield roughly 45 grams complex carbs)

AP will shock you with it's capabilities and versatility, so trust me and don't worry about overdoing the carbs. This should be a nice little cocktail for liver glycogen replacement, muscle replenishment, and sustained energy.

Eat your next whole food meal within 2 hours later.

Thanks for the advice. that is pretty close to what i was planning. Don't worry I'm not affraid of the carbs...also pinning IGF so the carbs will remain high.

And yes, the juicer rocks. I get a large box of organic and mostly local produce delivered weekly.

 

[Force of Green]

Thanks for the advice. that is pretty close to what i was planning. Don't worry I'm not affraid of the carbs...also pinning IGF so the carbs will remain high.

And yes, the juicer rocks.

Sweet! I forgot to ask for that for Xmas. Dammit. I used Oratropin and liked it, but after you try AP, I have a feeling you'll be not wanting to use IGF... then again, a little bit different of properties, but the effects of recomp and they're versatility issues, I'd go AP hands down.

 

[kabuki]

was the quote on putrifacation meantioned prevously in this thread? if so I missed it. I was unaware of that issue. And what sort of time is acceptable between the two?

I don't think the AP and IGF will be to much as the IGF doesn't have any significant impact on my blood sugar when dosed every 2-3 days. But after taking the AP i may reconsider the need for ordering more in the future...who know.

 

[kabuki]

---

 

[Force of Green]

was the quote on putrifacation meantioned prevously in this thread? if so I missed it. I was unaware of that issue. And what sort of time is acceptable between the two?

I don't think the AP and IGF will be to much as the IGF doesn't have any significant impact on my blood sugar when dosed every 2-3 days. But after taking the AP i may reconsider the need for ordering more in the future...who know.

Acidic fruits shouldn't be mixed with protein because they will hinder protein digestion. Take them in between meals. They usually digest fairly quick though. I'd say that they are digested and assimilated within 45 minutes or sooner... that's my guess?

 

[TeamSavage]

Acidic fruits shouldn't be mixed with protein because they will hinder protein digestion. Take them in between meals. They usually digest fairly quick though. I'd say that they are digested and assimilated within 45 minutes or sooner... that's my guess?

How exactly do acidic fruits hinder protein digestion?

 

[Rodja]

How exactly do acidic fruits hinder protein digestion?

That is what I am thinking; the acid within the fruit is nowhere the pH level of the stomach. Also, pineapple, which is an acidic fruit, helps with digestion, so that statement makes even less sense.

 

[haiz69]

Whey + Oats + Leucine.

 

[Force of Green]

How exactly do acidic fruits hinder protein digestion?

I'm a little groggy writing this (woke up to take a piss and drink a shake, still have some more sleep to get. lol) but they say that the acidity of the fruit and the enzymes released to digest them both will neutralize each other.

 

[kabuki]

ok, there seem to be some valid rules that should be followed regarding acidic fruit and protein sources. However i think those don't nescessarily need to be followed to the letter. Read the following and all the rules to obtain optimum digestion of all food sources.

And read the suggested diet to maintain a lack of putrefaction and other digestive discomfort:icon_lol:

Food combining

 

[TeamSavage]

ok, there seem to be some valid rules that should be followed regarding acidic fruit and protein sources. However i think those don't nescessarily need to be followed to the letter. Read the following and all the rules to obtain optimum digestion of all food sources.

And read the suggested diet to maintain a lack of putrefaction and other digestive discomfort:icon_lol:

Food combining

Those are some of the most ridiculously neurotic recommendations I have ever read in my life.

Thanks for posting the site.

 

[Force of Green]

Those are some of the most ridiculously neurotic recommendations I have ever read in my life.

Thanks for posting the site.

Yeah and the people that follow that verbatim are borderline schizophrenic. lol.

 

[kabuki]

Those are some of the most ridiculously neurotic recommendations I have ever read in my life.

Thanks for posting the site.

exactly.

i couldn't read that comedy and not share it.

But it does look there is some merit to attempting to distance the fruits and protein when you have a high fruit diet such as myself from the juicing. This morning I had my juice 15min before my shake and had no distress. opposed to earlier this week when i downed a shake immediatly followed by 3 cups of juice, which did cause some discomfort and gas.

 

[Iron Warrior]

I think people overcomplicate this issue (and many others). I'm doing fine with 1 cup of old fashioned oat mixed in a blender with 2 scoops of AI's Chocolate & Peanut Butter. I also will take some creatine if I'm off cycle too. Nothing too complicated about that

 

[Joint Fracture]

As others have said,...

Pop the AP first, then down your PWO mix. Mine is: One 70cc scoop waxy m, one 40cc scoop whey, & ~3 gms CEE.

IMO you can forget all the NO steer excrement, and stick with the above (add BCAA, Leuc, or whatever else you like).

Now go blow up!