Halodrol 50 Hypothesis
- 07-16-2006, 12:27 AM
Halodrol 50 Hypothesis
I have taken 2 cycles of Halodrol-50 now and have come up with some theories concerning the product using my own experience, people I train with and their experience, and the experience of the users of this forum. The general consensus from all of the above is that HD50 is a worthwhile product but underdosed.
Halodrol 50 is "4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1, 4-diene-3-17b-diol"
Oral Turinabol is "4-chloro-17b-hydroxy-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-dien-3-one"
Almost Identical compounds side by side and considered by many scientist "too close to call". So in theory, if Halodrol-50 is basically Oral Turinabol, minus DMT, would it not make sense to dose Halodrol 50 according to the guidelines set forth for Oral Turinabol. Like OT, HD50 could definatly be dosed higher without negative side effects due to the "4-chloro" component which prevents negative estrogenic effects. I still beleive though a proper PCT is necessary consisting of a SERM to restart normal LH function and Test production in the body. Why not cycle HD 50, 50/50/50/75/75/100? Which brings me to my second observation.
Why use HD50 for only four weeks. Published studies conducted on OT concluded that extended use of the compound is in fact safe. Why not do a 6,8, or 10 week cycle of HD50? It seems like with every cycle I have done and my friends have done, even if you read the logs on this site, by the time the great effects of this stuff kicks in full blast, there is only like a week of the cycle left. My best gains and my friends that I train with, have always come week 3. If anything why not extend the cycle another 3 weeks for a total of 6 weeks. The max cycle considered "safe" for Dbol, which is considered to be a close realitive of OT, is 6 weeks. OT is considered by many to be "a gentle version of dbol" Dbol? So imagine a 6,8,or 10 week cycle of HD50 and the results it could produce. OT is one of the few steroids also in which the user keeps up to 90% of their gains. So it would not be a waste to pull a cycle of HD 50 out because the gains are lean, and stick. Well anyway that is what I have come up with. More research is in the works and I plan to do a 8 week cycle in the fall with 2 buddies of mine under the care of a physician, blood tests, physicals, ect..Proper support supps and PCT PCT PCT!!!..And will most certaintly post my findings right here on AnabolicMinds.com. The duration of the cycle will be tested before the dosing. I hypothesize that greater effect can be achieved with time modified specific dosing rather than dose/quanity specific dosing. If monster gains occur on an 8 week cycle at 50mg daily why adjust the dosing?
So that is my HD 50 hypothesis, so now it is your turn to suggest, comment neg/pos, and all of you HD 50 users your opinion I want to hear the most since you have experienced the things I am talking about. Go at it!!
This same post was originally posted on BB.com but I was invited here to share my theories and hypothesis with you here at AnabolicMinds.com. I truely hope that I can find in this site what I did not in BB.com, experienced bodybuilders that research and take the use of these supplements seriously, and use them with responsiblity. And with that said just in case you are under 21 and wish to post messages to me asking for advice on this subject I will not respond, especially if you are mid cycle and asking what PCT is.
- 07-16-2006, 12:43 AM
good to have you here. Don't worry bro AM is nothing like BB.com. though i myself haven't used HD (can't wait have one box waiting for) others will more than glad post their experience.
- 07-16-2006, 12:45 AM
Damn, that's one hell of an intro post :P
Welcome to the forums and feel free to sniff around and add to the conversations around here. You will find a lot of informed educated people stay here. Hope you end up being one of em.
07-16-2006, 12:53 AM
I feel similar. Im on week 3 now, I upped the dose at the mid of week 2 to 75. Halodrol is far from a fast acting compound. I like that because its easy on the hairline. Its really not very androgenic at all. I'm currious of other peoples opinion on this, or feedback regarding androgenic sides. I too think its under dosed and will probably run it 5+. I got a kick ass PCT all planed out...lots of support sups too.
Last edited by TripDog; 06-04-2008 at 11:47 PM.
07-16-2006, 01:04 AM
I agree with the stated hypothesis and would highly recommend users post the results of their blood work both for extended cycles as well as for higher doses.
07-16-2006, 02:59 AM
07-16-2006, 04:42 PM
While its quite possible that one can use higher than recommended doses without a real increases in negative sides, some of your arguments aren't that sound. Almost identical and identical aren't the same, minor differences in structure can have major effects on effectiveness, sides, etc. etc. As for the second statement in the above quote, it could possibly be true if negative estrogenic sides where the only thing to be worried about when considering taking higher doses.Originally Posted by 3/75thRangerBN
You are approaching it in the right manner, getting test values during the experiment and figuring this out for yourself. Sharing what you find would definitely be useful to others. You've assumed some things are true that may not be, and these could negatively effect the outcome of your test. You will be testing this out, but some people reading might take that info for granted and make further assumptions (and arent' going to cover their own asses with bloodwork etc. and medical supervision..).
On a side, several PH/PS type products are dosed/recommended at low but effective amounts. Companies don't want to recommend the maximum safe (for some) dose as their recommedation for several reasons. One is that many people automatically dose higher without ever testing the waters so to speak. When higher doses can cause problems, companies would much rather recommend on the safer side.
anyways, good luck with the trial and do post all of your bloodwork. Before, during, and after bloodwork numbers are some of the best contributions people can make to the forums. much respect to all the guys that do this!
07-16-2006, 05:21 PM
I based the comment of almost identical in the area of side effects based on a side by side comparison of the two compounds and the side effects placed side by side always matched up. By no means is increased estrogen production the only problem with these compounds, as a matter of fact estrogen is far from the worries of any athlete using OT or HD50 due to the fact they are both methylated compounds. I am not informing people to go out and do this experiment, and I hope for the health sake of newer athletes to anabolic steroids/PH they do not, and exercise a fair amount of common sense. But like I mentioned this is just a hypothesis, an educated guess based upon research. I just was curious on the imput from the bodybuilding community so I can incorporate two sided unbiased research into further research and hypothsis. I want to thank everyone for responding and welcoming me to the AnabolicMinds.com community.
07-16-2006, 07:12 PM
I am on my last week of a 6 week H-50 cycle 50, 75, 100, 100, 75, 50. I have stacked it with TST and just added Zol. TST - 12 MGS per day, Zol- 300 MGS per day. For more fat burning I have added Thyro-Tabs and ECA. I have dropped my B/F from 17% to 10.78% since June 9th. This is my second cycle of H-50. Last time around in January I stacked it with Superdrol and stayed at 50 MGS per day and I saw only minor changes. After countless hours on AM and talking in myriads of forums and getting advice from members I decided to move my dosages slowly up each week until I reached 100 MGS. I have seen no alarming side-effects, no acne, B/P has been fine and I feel great. I have also considered a 8-10 week cycle after seeing the H-50 really kick-in big time 2 weeks ago after I had dropped back down to 75 MGS per day. I also considered upping the dosages to perhaps 2.25 or higher. Cost prohibitive factors stopped that idea dead in it's tracks. IMO doing a 8 week cycle of 50, 75, 100, 100, 100, 75, 75, 50 of H-50 would be conducive for somebody that seems to have the right body chemistry for H-50 and most importantly is 200+lbs or an experienced supplement user. More is not always better and most times it can come back to haunt you and eradicate all good gains that you got from just using the right dosage, however, H-50 seems to allow us more latitude and flexibility to experiment with.
07-16-2006, 07:58 PM
07-16-2006, 09:20 PM
i found haladrol to be very mild in terms of side effects. Of course, it was my first time taking a hormonal product so I dont really have anything to compare it to. I was taking the recommended 50 mg per day for four weeks and followed that up with four weeks of novedex xt. I kept 100% of my gains so I am really pleased with the outcome (16 lbs).
No acne, no increase in BP, no gyno, no increased aggression, no hair loss. I did notice a bit of lethargy in weeks 3 and 4. I would definitely be interested in seeing how someone fares on a higher dosage or longer cycle. Stuff is expensive though. Keep us posted.
07-17-2006, 03:29 PM
What timing. I just finished a 30 cycle of H-50 and I was wondering the same thing. My cycle was wierd. the first week was great, the second 2 weeks were eh...and the last week was awesome, particularly the last 4 or 5 days. I'm solid as a rock and making great gains. My weight went from about 206 to 211 in the last few days.
Now I'm in PCT and cant help but wonder if I had another 2 weeks what would have happened. Hmmmm food for thought. I have another 30 pills in the closet. Maybe I'll pick up 30 more for safe keeping. keep us posted. It just seemed I was supposed to on for 2 more weeks....
07-17-2006, 05:18 PM
Interesting post. Welcome aboard man.
E-Pharm Nutrition Representative
07-17-2006, 07:13 PM
A good reading would be the log done by Trauma1 on his cycle of Halo/TST. He ended up upping the dosages on the Halo and enjoyed the outcome. I think it's in the Cycle forum section. Good reading!
08-16-2006, 06:14 PM
Promptly stocks up on halodrol haha
08-16-2006, 07:29 PM
Since this thread got resurrected...Ranger any update on your extended Halo cycle?
08-16-2006, 07:33 PM
Chemistry at a molecular level is bound by laws and physical properties. The seemingly relative closeness of two substances means they are closes but not the same. So they must betreated differently. Epecially a chemical that your are ingesting.
Oral t-bol was very heptoxic and used sparing at the end of cycles.It was a mild anabolic with little androgenic activity. It was popular because, at the time of its introduction, it was undetectable by standard urinalysis.
Halodrol does not seem to be as heptoxic, yet exibits the same anabolic and androgenic profile.
However, increased dosing does not insure greater anabolic effect, mainly do to various "other growth factors"
Increasing your dose could be somewhat risky because many substances are completely safe a one dose and deadly at a higher dose. That is why we have LD50 scales. Where as I don't think that Halodrol is deadly or even heptotoxic like M1t, more does not always mean better in the nutrition world---Good luck, I hope you achieve your goalsl!!
08-16-2006, 09:02 PM
Yes as a matter of fact there are several updates...I was waiting untill I begain the cycle in October, but since there are inquiring minds I will begin now:
Since the last time I posted I have teamed up with a doctor to provide me with the correct testing and results. Since this doctor is someone I went to college with, and have become good friends with, and is a fellow bodybuilder, I find his opinions and theories along with mine (since I am a RN) to be very valuable and a good muscle building match.
In addition to the Halo I am seriously debating stacking 4-Diol with it. Both compounds have no DHT conversion or estrogen conversion, and I hypothsize that both compounds will complement each other nicely at a 400mg/50mg stack. After all, in the days of prohormones, 4-Diol was stacked with everything.
I have heavily stocked up on HCG, Nolvadex, and Clomid. Well, you can never be too safe. In addition I have purchased 15 boxes of Halo and 20 bottles of 4-Diol. Hey, if this works I'll have a enough. If the first cycle takes off I plan to cycle every 4 to 6 weeks with 12 weeks off then restarting untill supplies are exhausted. Of course with proper PCT and bloodtesting. Complete physical examinations are scheduled every 4-6 months.
Well that is it for now. I have been doing a great deal of research, especially now that I am considering the 4-Diol stack. I really think that things will turn out nicely as long as I am responsible and carefull with these compounds.
If anyone has any questions or comments please feel free to email, post, or message me at anabolicminds or at Malic1036@aol.com...
08-16-2006, 11:05 PM
should be interesting. any chance you could keep a log with pics?
08-16-2006, 11:22 PM
absolutly...if things go as planned i should be down to 220lbs from 270lbs in Oct....i am currently cutting down significantly after a cycle of sus 250, dbol, and deca....alot of water retention to say the least...the only side i experienced from the cycle was a ton of water weight...but during cutting muscle seems to be staying and becomming more defined...my doc and myself are very interested to see the comparason between the aas cycle and the 4Diol and Halo cycle in gains, water retention, and kept gains...
08-17-2006, 12:59 PM
Awesome!!!Originally Posted by 3/75thRangerBN
Thanks again for all this great feedback!
08-17-2006, 05:10 PM
Being overzealous I jumped on about 10 boxes of HD-50 before the ban and then learned the exp date as 10/2007, so I'll be using as much as possible before then. I'm in the first week of a long, mild (for me) cutting cycle, and by that it means no tren. I had great gains on HD-50 the last time I used it, but they seemed to taper off quickly and were erratic. I'm going to maintain 50 mg ED dosing for the remainder of the week, then 75 for a week, and then 100 for a few weeks. I'll report back with any results.
5'10" 260 (start of cycle), 257 now
lots of cycle experience
cycle looks like this:
HD-50 as explained above
1000 mg sust per week weeks 1-8
GH 2 IU EOD throughout
Mega-TRN 6 mg ED weeks 1-4
If I decide to run it 10 weeks I'll most likely stop the HD-50 at week 5 or 6 and finish with 2-3 weeks of SD.
Almost forgot, most important thing, DIET...my maintenace cals are between 4200-4500, this diet is 3000 max. Protein 450+ ED, carbs are under 75 g Mon thru Thurs, Friday is carb-up day (500 g+), then cycle repeats.
08-17-2006, 05:12 PM
sounds good man. id love to see some after picsOriginally Posted by Rocky82
08-17-2006, 07:15 PM
Sounds great. Looking forward to your log.Originally Posted by 3/75thRangerBN
08-17-2006, 07:19 PM
Rocky you may be able to vacuum seal your Halo and freeze them to prolong the expiration date. Not sure if this will work as the Halo you have are tabs right? SD, Phera, etc can be sealed and frozen to extend their expirations not sure if this theory applies to tabs as well as capsules...Originally Posted by Rocky82
08-17-2006, 08:05 PM
Originally Posted by MattHines
I'll be taking pics once every few weeks. Also as I get leaner I'll take some on the 4th depeletion day to compare to the end of the carb-up day. You'd be surprised what a difference you can see (granted you're lean enough).
08-17-2006, 08:06 PM
Originally Posted by dagecko
I'm gonna use as much as I can in a healthy, advisable manner until this time next year and then I will seal what I havent used.
08-18-2006, 11:29 AM
Awesome...looking forward to itOriginally Posted by Rocky82
08-18-2006, 03:42 PM
Did someone say that OT is more hepatoxic than HD50?
08-26-2006, 11:51 PM
What time do you recommend for taking the Haladrol 50? I am thinking it can have a greater effect at bed time so in coincides with the bodies natural production of growth hormone. But on the other hand I know that test. levels normally peak in the AM. What do you recommend, taking it AM or PM?
08-27-2006, 12:13 AM
I recommend that you split your dosage throughout the day to maintain a stable hormone level which is very important. I split my halodrol doses and had very good results.Originally Posted by knewell11
08-30-2006, 01:25 PM
Ranger... I 100% agree with your theory. I have thouht the same way and studied the facts of Haladrol-50 (as well as Oral Turn). I have seen 100 reviews talk about how Haladrol was almost dissapointing until week 3 or 4 then everything was stepped up, and even continued to grow though out there PCT.
Two days ago I started a cycle of Haladrol. My plan for the cycle is a 50,75,100,100,75,50, 6 week cycle with Novla PCT. I had my blood work completed last week and as of then I was in perfect balance.
I have a feeling that around day 10 instead of week 3 or 4 I should really start seeing results.
Good luck with you cycle in October, I will try to keep you updated on my progress as well.
08-30-2006, 01:52 PM
Having a cycle of H50 under my belt I think my next cycle will look something like this...50, 50, 50, 100, 100, 100, with an ACT/AI starting on day 15 and continuing for 8 weeks through PCT. Its that last week of 100 I'm still thinking about and will have to play it by ear so to say. May have to SERM up in PCT also, I think I may have been bordering last time around. I really just started think about this lately, and it needs more work. It was those last 4 or 5 days on during my last cycle that really made me want to stay on for a few more weeks.
Don't think I'll start till the new year anyways...we'll see how others fare in the meantime.
08-30-2006, 02:47 PM
I am debating whether or not to increase my dose dramatically. With OT the dose is based on body weight and kept at that dose throughout the cycle. With OT the dose takes time to build and take effect as with HD50, and I really think that increasing the dose will not decrease the time it takes the compound to kick in but may only further the gains once the compound does kick in full strength. For example, with any injectable oil based AAS it takes 3-5 weeks untill the effects of the compound are at full swing. No matter if you are injecting 300mg or 1000mg. That is why I have decided to use 4 AD along with the HD50 to not only boost the effects of the HD50 but to kick start growth before the HD50 kicks in 3 weeks later. Such as in a cycle of any injectable you prime you body with Dbol or Anadrol to kick start gains untill the injectables kick in then discontinue the orals. My cycle will probabaly look something like this:
600mg 4AD b.i.d
50mg HD50 b.i.d
600mg 4AD b.i.d
50mg HD50 b.i.d
600mg 4AD b.i.d
50mg HD50 b.i.d
400mg 4AD b.i.d
75mg HD50 b.i.d
300mg 4AD b.i.d
75mg HD50 b.i.d
75mg HD50 b.i.d
then on to PCT
08-30-2006, 02:49 PM
well correction, continue PCT as I will be starting Clomid at week 4.
08-30-2006, 03:43 PM
The reason I am just going to just do the Haladrol this time is to simply see the results of just Haladrol on a longer ,higher dose cycle.
I have no doubt that adding 4AD, or Phera-Plex would boost my results, but I guess I just want to see what only higher doses Halo would do. If I was to add the Phera-Plex then I would really not know when Halo kicked in or the PP took hold. I think in both cases we are going to see very good results with min sides.
As far as dosing, this first week I am taking it right after I wake and eat. For the next 5 weeks it will be split into 2 doses 10 to 12 hours apart. I believe when the second higher dose starts, and the half life of the product is no longer a factor, that is when I believe the results will start to take off.
Prior to starting this cycle I took 8 weeks off of any PH (I only did X-Mass for a 3 week cycle) and had 5 weeks off any supplements all together, to get my body back into normal function. And I took 2 weeks completely off from any workouts, to rest. My workouts this week are being composed of high reps low weight to get back in the swing and to get the soreness out (which might be a problem for my legs, because squats yesterday killed and I am dying today). Next week I will begin a more structured and little heavier lifting with cardio. The one problem I have also heard in the past with people on Halo is over-training due to the fact of seeing little results in the first 3 weeks. People think it must be their workout because of the great results they have heard of in the past on Haladrol. I am going to bust my ass on this cycle, but am going to be smart about rest as well.
08-30-2006, 04:22 PM
Guys I can honestly say that if you're over 225 lbs or so, 100 mg of Halodrol is gravy...I dont remember strength gains/pumps/endurance like this at 50 mg. I'm stacking with 1 g sust weekly but im only in week 3 so that hasnt even started to take hold yet. I started 100 mg Halodrol at week 2 and the difference is very noticeable. It's great stuff, and I agree with the posts above that it's a slow acting oral (like OT) and can be used for 6 weeks, but that's still pushing it. Everyone should get bloodwork (cholesterol, LFT's) done before and after, but that goes for any cycle. I dont believe that Halodrol is as mild on your system as people believe though. It's a methylated oral. They're all bad. Some worse than others of course. Halotestin, Superdrol, and Anadrol are in a class by themselves when it comes to destroying your liver, but nevertheless, oral AAS usage shouldnt be taken lightly by anyone.
Anyway, just wanted to share my experience of 100 mg ED for larger folks. FWIW i'm rockin out at 265 now, 5'10"
08-30-2006, 08:38 PM
I wish I had your size
My Stats are
5 foot 5 162 lbs
Not skinny for my heigth but trying to put on more lean muscle and possible bulk everyday
Right now I have started my 6 week Haladrol cycle of 50,75,100,100,75,50, so I believe with the size I am now and my calorie and protien intake, that these mgs should be helpful.
08-30-2006, 11:36 PM
What's the reason for tapering the dosage off?Originally Posted by danobard
08-31-2006, 12:38 PM
My reason for the tapering off is: If your body gets used to 100mg a day then you just stop, your body does go through a sort of shock of not getting what it is a customed to. With the tapering off, I am going to try and slowly get the body used to 50mg before stopping. A lot of medications have you do this do to the shock value and what happens to your body. I may be wrong, but I have done this in the past for other meds and it worked well.
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