HMB doesn't work and the science is nonsense - proof inside

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  1. HMB doesn't work and the science is nonsense - proof inside


    DOC-20170317-WA0001.pdf

    why is ANYONE using this stuff?
    Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Representative Manager


  2. Thanks for posting that, ive been trying to find it after seeing Mennos post on it.

    I personally feel a difference in recovery when using HMB-Fa and not, but im looking forward to reading this.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by TheMrMuscle View Post
    Thanks for posting that, ive been trying to find it after seeing Mennos post on it.

    I personally feel a difference in recovery when using HMB-Fa and not, but im looking forward to reading this.

    ok...it may do SOMETHING, but not a fraction of what is claimed.

    Know what actually does work and has thousands of repeatable studies behind it? Leucine.
    Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Representative Manager

  4. Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    DOC-20170317-WA0001.pdf

    why is ANYONE using this stuff?
    For a second, I thought you were gonna 'dis HMB-Ca! (Note, that *it* gets some credit in the body of the letter).

    Nice post Vaughn - those are the heaviest hitters in the research industry.

    I've long since decided Wilson's work is questionable to say the least.

  5. Hmb is legit. The calcium salt. But the magic is in the training. It really shines in overreaching.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Pec.Major View Post
    Hmb is legit. The calcium salt. But the magic is in the training. It really shines in overreaching.
    Ca is, FA is not - people need to be really clear when typing the letters HMB, IMO... LOL

  7. Quote Originally Posted by The_Old_Guy View Post
    Ca is, FA is not - people need to be really clear when typing the letters HMB, IMO... LOL
    do the studies behind HMB-Ca look as comical as the FA ones? I honestly haven't read up on them in some time
    Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Representative Manager

  8. Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    do the studies behind HMB-Ca look as comical as the FA ones? I honestly haven't read up on them in some time
    Brosef, just type: HMB Suppversity into Google, and you'll get 3, 4, 5 non-industry related studies showing it's worth the ~$50 per year to use it

  9. Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    ok...it may do SOMETHING, but not a fraction of what is claimed.

    Know what actually does work and has thousands of repeatable studies behind it? Leucine.
    I have read of people megadosing leucine, how much do you take before your workout and after.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by jameschoi View Post
    I have read of people megadosing leucine, how much do you take before your workout and after.
    Mega dosing Leucine is a waste. You need about 3g (5g max if you want to err) per protein feeding. There should be about a 3-5 hour delay before your next protein feeding. More doesn't help. Also, if you are going to use supplemental Leucine, make sure you subtract the Leucine that is already in your Casein/Whey/Beef/Egg/Chicken/Fish, etc...

  11. Quote Originally Posted by The_Old_Guy View Post
    Ca is, FA is not - people need to be really clear when typing the letters HMB, IMO... LOL
    My bad, i was unclear. Should have wrote HMB-Ca instead of "the calcium salt" seperated.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Pec.Major View Post
    My bad, i was unclear. Should have wrote HMB-Ca instead of "the calcium salt" seperated.
    Nah, I got you, just a general post using your quote - sorry.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by The_Old_Guy View Post
    Mega dosing Leucine is a waste. You need about 3g (5g max if you want to err) per protein feeding. There should be about a 3-5 hour delay before your next protein feeding. More doesn't help. Also, if you are going to use supplemental Leucine, make sure you subtract the Leucine that is already in your Casein/Whey/Beef/Egg/Chicken/Fish, etc...
    What about ecdysteroids, do they work at all.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by jameschoi View Post
    What about ecdysteroids, do they work at all.
    Define "work"? I bought what could be considered the highest quality Rhaponticum product - consumed it with Tart Cherry Juice (itself proven to aid recovery), and noticed a small to medium improvement in recovery from workouts I had been doing for months. When I switched to entirely new exercises, it did absolutely nothing - DOMS out the azz for a few workouts. Didn't re-purchase.

  15. Always interested in reading solid information
    SERIOUS NUTRITION SOLUTIONS
    dfrey @ seriousnutritionsolutions.com
    "Revolutionizing Sports Nutrition, One Product At A Time"

  16. In before "feels like deca."
    ARA/ Evomuse Log.... Follow and laugh at my mediocre results http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/282586-evomuse-ara-log.html#post5403818

  17. Quote Originally Posted by banjobounce View Post
    In before "feels like deca."
    LOL well played
    Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Representative Manager

  18. Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    ok...it may do SOMETHING, but not a fraction of what is claimed.

    Know what actually does work and has thousands of repeatable studies behind it? Leucine.
    Interested to know which group you think HICA would reside ?

    Something: Leucine / HMB-Ca
    or
    Nothing: HMB

  19. surprising someone messed misrepresented numbers to further their pocket. never happens in the supplement industry ever....

  20. Quote Originally Posted by pulsefit View Post
    surprising someone messed misrepresented numbers to further their pocket. never happens in the supplement industry ever....
    Haha nope, never. Not in this industry!
    iForce Nutrition Representative

  21. Wilsons research is ALWAYS overwhelmingly positive. Very skeptical that he doesn't fabricate claims
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    X-gels: Arachidonic Acid made affordable

  22. Quote Originally Posted by The_Old_Guy View Post
    Brosef, just type: HMB Suppversity into Google, and you'll get 3, 4, 5 non-industry related studies showing it's worth the ~$50 per year to use it
    This. There is research on it that doesn't raise the same concerns as the HMB-FA studies, and at $50/year (under $5/month, or $0.14/day), it's a cheap enough addition.

    There's also a recent rat study that found that "HMB forestalled the effects of aging on the dendritic tree of this population of neurons."
    In both healthy aging humans and rat models, there are cognitive deficits associated with age-related dendritic shrinkage within the prefrontal cortex...

    As expected, there were fewer spines and a retraction of dendritic material in the apical and basilar trees in old age controls of both sexes compared with their middle-aged counterparts. However, these losses did not occur in the HMB-treated rats in either dendrites or the total number of dendritic spines.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubme...methylbutyrate

    The study used 450mg/kg, which isn't an unachievable dose when converted (5.4g for a 75kg person).

    Now, it's not something that seems like it would improve cognition in healthy young adults, but it is rather interesting, and makes HMB an even more promising supplement as we age, and even as a generally healthy supplement to help us essentially stay younger loner.
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  23. Well, I've read the whole PDF, but I missed the part where they proved it doesn't work.

    The letter only asks for clarification and, yes, the author do doubt the amount of gains, but they don't (and can't) say it doesn't work and have conducted no similar experiment on the ingredient.
    A Clarification Letter doesn't prove anything, and doesn't intend to.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by jameschoi View Post
    What about ecdysteroids, do they work at all.
    At doses you can't afford, there should be a benefit. But a lot more cheaper and better options available.

  25. HMB/leucine is such a scam! If you search for it on pubmed/ncbi, there's zero studies that say it's effective. Same at the examine website. I am going to visit that supversity link someone mentioned but yeah so far it's definitely a waste. Money is better spent on food.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by polarcat View Post
    HMB/leucine is such a scam! If you search for it on pubmed/ncbi, there's zero studies that say it's effective. Same at the examine website. I am going to visit that supversity link someone mentioned but yeah so far it's definitely a waste. Money is better spent on food.
    Wait, who is saying that leucine is a scam? There are plenty of studies showing the benefits of leucine. Of course, there's no point in taking leucine with a meal already high in protein and leucine, but it does have benefits under certain conditions. Also, as The_Old_Guy mentioned, HMB-CA has some studies that don't bring up the same concerns as the HMB-FA studies.
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  27. Here's some studies on CaHMB:
    In summary, CR and HMB can increase LBM and strength, and the effects are additive
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11448573
    HMB supplementation was associated
    with greater increases in muscle mass, muscle strength and
    anaerobic properties with no effect on aerobic capacity
    suggesting some advantage for its use in elite adolescent
    volleyball players during the initial phases of the training
    season. These effects were not accompanied by hormonal
    and inflammatory mediator changes.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21327797
    In previously trained men,
    supplementation of HMB in conjunction with resistance training
    provides a substantial benefit to lower-body strength, but it has
    negligible effects on body composition.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19387396
    . These data suggested that 27 HMB in combination with 12 weeks of RT decreased AFM in elderly men
    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...hy_Elderly_Men
    The results indicate that supplying HMB promotes advantageous changes in
    body composition and stimulates an increase in aerobic capacity, while seeming not to
    significantly affect the levels of the analyzed blood markers.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26849784
    In conclusion, a nutritional supplement containing 1.5 g of calcium HMB for 8 weeks in healthy elderly women had no significant effects on SPPB, but did significantly improve several muscle strength and physical performance parameters.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4631374/
    In conclusion, the objective data collected across nine experiments indicate that HMB can be taken safely as an ergogenic aid for exercise and that objective measures of health and perception of well-being are generally enhanced.
    http://jn.nutrition.org/content/130/8/1937.long
    Performax Labs Online Rep.
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  28. Quote Originally Posted by polarcat View Post
    HMB/leucine is such a scam! If you search for it on pubmed/ncbi, there's zero studies that say it's effective. Same at the examine website. I am going to visit that supversity link someone mentioned but yeah so far it's definitely a waste. Money is better spent on food.
    Maybe you should search for it yourself. Or read the links just posted above

  29. Quote Originally Posted by macwad View Post
    Maybe you should search for it yourself. Or read the links just posted above
    Ok so it "works" for volleyball players and old ladies and provides "trivial" strength gains but has no effect on body composition. I mean it works but not to an extent that's worth it. Especially for healthy males that have been resistance training and living the bodybuilding lifestyle for a while it's not going to do anything. Waste of money. Also wayyyyy too many uncontrollable factors that could've contributed to the tiny results those studies showed.
  30. Unbreakable
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Old_Guy View Post
    Mega dosing Leucine is a waste. You need about 3g (5g max if you want to err) per protein feeding. There should be about a 3-5 hour delay before your next protein feeding. More doesn't help. Also, if you are going to use supplemental Leucine, make sure you subtract the Leucine that is already in your Casein/Whey/Beef/Egg/Chicken/Fish, etc...
    Not sure if you are being sarcastic...
    So after I subtract those food products (which I cannot actually calculate the exact anount of lucine contained) and if I have a number "zero" I must not need any supplemental then?
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