Thanks for posting that, ive been trying to find it after seeing Mennos post on it.
I personally feel a difference in recovery when using HMB-Fa and not, but im looking forward to reading this.
For a second, I thought you were gonna 'dis HMB-Ca! (Note, that *it* gets some credit in the body of the letter).
Ca is, FA is not - people need to be really clear when typing the letters HMB, IMO... LOLHmb is legit. The calcium salt. But the magic is in the training. It really shines in overreaching.
do the studies behind HMB-Ca look as comical as the FA ones? I honestly haven't read up on them in some timeCa is, FA is not - people need to be really clear when typing the letters HMB, IMO... LOL
Brosef, just type: HMB Suppversity into Google, and you'll get 3, 4, 5 non-industry related studies showing it's worth the ~$50 per year to use itdo the studies behind HMB-Ca look as comical as the FA ones? I honestly haven't read up on them in some time
I have read of people megadosing leucine, how much do you take before your workout and after.ok...it may do SOMETHING, but not a fraction of what is claimed.
Know what actually does work and has thousands of repeatable studies behind it? Leucine.
Mega dosing Leucine is a waste. You need about 3g (5g max if you want to err) per protein feeding. There should be about a 3-5 hour delay before your next protein feeding. More doesn't help. Also, if you are going to use supplemental Leucine, make sure you subtract the Leucine that is already in your Casein/Whey/Beef/Egg/Chicken/Fish, etc...I have read of people megadosing leucine, how much do you take before your workout and after.
My bad, i was unclear. Should have wrote HMB-Ca instead of "the calcium salt" seperated.Ca is, FA is not - people need to be really clear when typing the letters HMB, IMO... LOL
Nah, I got you, just a general post using your quote - sorry.My bad, i was unclear. Should have wrote HMB-Ca instead of "the calcium salt" seperated.
What about ecdysteroids, do they work at all.Mega dosing Leucine is a waste. You need about 3g (5g max if you want to err) per protein feeding. There should be about a 3-5 hour delay before your next protein feeding. More doesn't help. Also, if you are going to use supplemental Leucine, make sure you subtract the Leucine that is already in your Casein/Whey/Beef/Egg/Chicken/Fish, etc...
Define "work"? I bought what could be considered the highest quality Rhaponticum product - consumed it with Tart Cherry Juice (itself proven to aid recovery), and noticed a small to medium improvement in recovery from workouts I had been doing for months. When I switched to entirely new exercises, it did absolutely nothing - DOMS out the azz for a few workouts. Didn't re-purchase.What about ecdysteroids, do they work at all.
LOL well playedIn before "feels like deca."
Interested to know which group you think HICA would reside ?ok...it may do SOMETHING, but not a fraction of what is claimed.
Know what actually does work and has thousands of repeatable studies behind it? Leucine.
Haha nope, never. Not in this industry!surprising someone messed misrepresented numbers to further their pocket. never happens in the supplement industry ever....
This. There is research on it that doesn't raise the same concerns as the HMB-FA studies, and at $50/year (under $5/month, or $0.14/day), it's a cheap enough addition.Brosef, just type: HMB Suppversity into Google, and you'll get 3, 4, 5 non-industry related studies showing it's worth the ~$50 per year to use it
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26973106/?i=8&from=beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrateIn both healthy aging humans and rat models, there are cognitive deficits associated with age-related dendritic shrinkage within the prefrontal cortex...
As expected, there were fewer spines and a retraction of dendritic material in the apical and basilar trees in old age controls of both sexes compared with their middle-aged counterparts. However, these losses did not occur in the HMB-treated rats in either dendrites or the total number of dendritic spines.
At doses you can't afford, there should be a benefit. But a lot more cheaper and better options available.What about ecdysteroids, do they work at all.
Wait, who is saying that leucine is a scam? There are plenty of studies showing the benefits of leucine. Of course, there's no point in taking leucine with a meal already high in protein and leucine, but it does have benefits under certain conditions. Also, as The_Old_Guy mentioned, HMB-CA has some studies that don't bring up the same concerns as the HMB-FA studies.HMB/leucine is such a scam! If you search for it on pubmed/ncbi, there's zero studies that say it's effective. Same at the examine website. I am going to visit that supversity link someone mentioned but yeah so far it's definitely a waste. Money is better spent on food.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11448573In summary, CR and HMB can increase LBM and strength, and the effects are additive
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21327797HMB supplementation was associated
with greater increases in muscle mass, muscle strength and
anaerobic properties with no effect on aerobic capacity
suggesting some advantage for its use in elite adolescent
volleyball players during the initial phases of the training
season. These effects were not accompanied by hormonal
and inflammatory mediator changes.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19387396In previously trained men,
supplementation of HMB in conjunction with resistance training
provides a substantial benefit to lower-body strength, but it has
negligible effects on body composition.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/272624772_b-hydroxy-b-methylbutyrate_HMB_Supplementation_and_Resistance_Exercise_Significantly_Reduce_Abdominal_Adiposity_in_Healthy_Elderly_Men. These data suggested that 27 HMB in combination with 12 weeks of RT decreased AFM in elderly men
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26849784The results indicate that supplying HMB promotes advantageous changes in
body composition and stimulates an increase in aerobic capacity, while seeming not to
significantly affect the levels of the analyzed blood markers.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4631374/In conclusion, a nutritional supplement containing 1.5 g of calcium HMB for 8 weeks in healthy elderly women had no significant effects on SPPB, but did significantly improve several muscle strength and physical performance parameters.
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/130/8/1937.longIn conclusion, the objective data collected across nine experiments indicate that HMB can be taken safely as an ergogenic aid for exercise and that objective measures of health and perception of well-being are generally enhanced.
Maybe you should search for it yourself. Or read the links just posted aboveHMB/leucine is such a scam! If you search for it on pubmed/ncbi, there's zero studies that say it's effective. Same at the examine website. I am going to visit that supversity link someone mentioned but yeah so far it's definitely a waste. Money is better spent on food.
Ok so it "works" for volleyball players and old ladies and provides "trivial" strength gains but has no effect on body composition. I mean it works but not to an extent that's worth it. Especially for healthy males that have been resistance training and living the bodybuilding lifestyle for a while it's not going to do anything. Waste of money. Also wayyyyy too many uncontrollable factors that could've contributed to the tiny results those studies showed.Maybe you should search for it yourself. Or read the links just posted above
Not sure if you are being sarcastic...Mega dosing Leucine is a waste. You need about 3g (5g max if you want to err) per protein feeding. There should be about a 3-5 hour delay before your next protein feeding. More doesn't help. Also, if you are going to use supplemental Leucine, make sure you subtract the Leucine that is already in your Casein/Whey/Beef/Egg/Chicken/Fish, etc...
Huh? Very loosely a scoop of Whey has like 2g, and Casein has 1.5g. 8oz of Milk has 1g etc... If one were going to add Leucine it would be a waste to add 5g to 2 scoops of Whey in Milk. Thats what I was trying to relay.As faras I can recall, both Norton and Phillips say no more than 5g per 'feeding' is needed (and thats for really big dudes).Not sure if you are being sarcastic...
So after I subtract those food products (which I cannot actually calculate the exact anount of lucine contained) and if I have a number "zero" I must not need any supplemental then?
Yep. 5g is plenty to add to meals low in leucine. Less even if some is presentHuh? Very loosely a scoop of Whey has like 2g, and Casein has 1.5g. 8oz of Milk has 1g etc... If one were going to add Leucine it would be a waste to add 5g to 2 scoops of Whey in Milk. Thats what I was trying to relay.As faras I can recall, both Norton and Phillips say no more than 5g per 'feeding' is needed (and thats for really big dudes).
It's not really for that. Leucine is an mTOR stimulator, meaning that at 5g it maximally activates the cascade responsible for building muscle. It wont add mass without substrate though.Ok so it "works" for volleyball players and old ladies and provides "trivial" strength gains but has no effect on body composition. I mean it works but not to an extent that's worth it. Especially for healthy males that have been resistance training and living the bodybuilding lifestyle for a while it's not going to do anything. Waste of money. Also wayyyyy too many uncontrollable factors that could've contributed to the tiny results those studies showed.
i understand. I'm good on my Leucine.Huh? Very loosely a scoop of Whey has like 2g, and Casein has 1.5g. 8oz of Milk has 1g etc... If one were going to add Leucine it would be a waste to add 5g to 2 scoops of Whey in Milk. Thats what I was trying to relay.As faras I can recall, both Norton and Phillips say no more than 5g per 'feeding' is needed (and thats for really big dudes).
You can get it for less than $5/month, it has studies showing some benefits in trained individuals, and it has research suggesting it can also be a longevity-supporting type supplement, as animal research suggests cognitive-protecting effects, and human studies show physical benefits for the elderly. For the price, I think it's worth it, but we're all entitled to our opinions. I wouldn't say it's "useless" by any means though.Ok so it "works" for volleyball players and old ladies and provides "trivial" strength gains but has no effect on body composition. I mean it works but not to an extent that's worth it. Especially for healthy males that have been resistance training and living the bodybuilding lifestyle for a while it's not going to do anything. Waste of money. Also wayyyyy too many uncontrollable factors that could've contributed to the tiny results those studies showed.
Recent studies PROVE that fufu coffee is 43% more anabolic than hmb, look it up on pubmed, straight facts.Far too many recreational and hobbiest trainers sweating the monutia that might be beneficial in elite highly trained and conditioned full time professional or collegiate athletes. I'll spend my money enjoying a FuFu coffee once a month and get equitable results.
BCAAs (I have been really liking the fermented kind) are legit.ok...it may do SOMETHING, but not a fraction of what is claimed.
Know what actually does work and has thousands of repeatable studies behind it? Leucine.
Can you provide the link.Recent studies PROVE that fufu coffee is 43% more anabolic than hmb, look it up on pubmed, straight facts.
Yea, when you question a post, I go "oh shjt, what did I screw up?!" You appear every leap yer or so, LOL.i understand. I'm good on my Leucine.
+1,000,000You can get it for less than $5/month, it has studies showing some benefits in trained individuals, and it has research suggesting it can also be a longevity-supporting type supplement, as animal research suggests cognitive-protecting effects, and human studies show physical benefits for the elderly. For the price, I think it's worth it, but we're all entitled to our opinions. I wouldn't say it's "useless" by any means though.
I'm flattered that you notice but I got nothing on you. I read your stuff all the time. There's only a handful of guys and your on the list.Yea, when you question a post, I go "oh shjt, what did I screw up?!" You appear every leap yer or so, LOL.
Damn man, thanks! (Thank you Google! )I'm flattered that you notice but I got nothing on you. I read your stuff all the time. There's only a handful of guys and your on the list.
CaHMB is cheap in bulk; about $50/year. HMB-FA is very expensive, but Ca has studies on it showing some benefits.Never believed in it and for the price of it my god it's a rip off. if it does anything it's very minuscule. Now if it was cheap in bulk like creating or glutamine, I wouldn't mind just throwing it into the mix.
One more recent study (2015):Here's some studies on CaHMB:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11448573
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21327797
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19387396
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/272624772_b-hydroxy-b-methylbutyrate_HMB_Supplementation_and_Resistance_Exercise_Significantly_Reduce_Abdominal_Adiposity_in_Healthy_Elderly_Men
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26849784
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4631374/
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/130/8/1937.long
Yeah, they make some crazy claims for it!ok...it may do SOMETHING, but not a fraction of what is claimed.
Know what actually does work and has thousands of repeatable studies behind it? Leucine.
I absolutely believe this. Lots of anecdotal reports of creatine making kids cranky. Seems pretty common and I would believe that it can impact DHT levels in younger men.Most studies need to be done over and over again to get anything out of them. Anyone remember the creatine study that showed creatine massively increased DHT levels? Like over 50% I think. The first thing I thought was that the creatine used was spiked. But that was it. The study was never followed up again. I think that's a huge find and surprising that it was never followed up. There are too many variables to rely on 1 or 2 studies in a lot of cases.
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