For Dr. D and others... increasing test levels
- 01-20-2005, 09:59 PM
For Dr. D and others... increasing test levels
I ran a search on this but did not find much. Out of all the products on the market 6oxo, trib, etc... What would be the best product to help increase test levels with no rebound issues. I am leaning towards 6oxo but figured I would ask for opinions before making the purchase.
- 01-20-2005, 10:19 PM
Fenugreek works well for me. I hear that 6-oxo works, but have never used it. Formestane should work for that matter, but I've never specifically used it for that. Trib seems to help, especially stacked with a SERM, but not as well as the fen. Oh man, I forgot, I guess Form is no longer an option, Sldg's new one has the best Ki of all these, it will be a good new alternative and stronger that 6-oxo, but I'm not sure when it will be available.
01-20-2005, 10:56 PM
I just finished collecting my pct stack, had the novla at the start of the cycle and picked up a few other things along the way. Going to run novla, Fenugreek based solely on Dr.D's ravings and its pretty cheap, Tribulus Terrestris 90%, and avena sativa powder. I should be fairly suppressed after 8 weeks 1-test, we'll see how this works.
01-20-2005, 11:00 PM
Okay...from this post I'd assume Ki values somehow are correlated to Test levels. But, through what mechanism? (just curious)Originally Posted by DR.D
01-20-2005, 11:20 PM
Ravings!!! You make me sound like a crazy manOriginally Posted by R6Speed
I guess it was just a matter of time till you realized it, but really, give it a try. It's pretty good stuff with other benefits as well. Like you said, it's cheap so you have nothing to lose.
01-20-2005, 11:23 PM
Ki is a measure if inhibitory concentration used to rank the potency of these drugs. The lower, the better. It translates into less estrogen, so it correlates to test indirectly.Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
01-21-2005, 12:11 AM
01-21-2005, 01:31 AM
I've been using Dr D's suggestion about using 200mg of DHEA in PCT. I just started using it for my last week of PCT and I can really see/feel the difference. Testicle size went way up and libido returned all of a sudden within 3 days of use.
Another nice, cheap trick courtesy of the Doc.
01-21-2005, 01:38 AM
correct me if I am wrong, but wont DHEA supress you? how is it a good idea in pct?Originally Posted by bioman
01-21-2005, 07:37 AM
You'd need to take over 0.5g of DHEA/oral to really suppress I think. Maybe even more, but it supplies a ready precursor to test and you need that during PCT because your 17-keto's(adrenal androgens) are usually suppresses by non-17-alkylated stuff like test, 1-test, dec, etc.. So after a cycle it's a good idea to take some, it helps you bounce faster.
I buy Fenugreek local, Natures Way brand, but I've seen it cheap at 1fast, NOW brand I believe.
01-21-2005, 12:04 PM
sounds like some good stuff. i'll pick some fenugreek up and DHEA and give it a whirl during PCT. good thread.
01-21-2005, 12:06 PM
01-21-2005, 03:23 PM
I think he's referring to standard DHEA. The 7-keto form is also used in PCT but more for cort suppression and thyroid upregulation.
Regular DHEA can be had anywhere. It's dirt cheap even at a grocery store.
01-21-2005, 07:20 PM
Yeah, the 7-keto is not nearly as androgenic. You'd need very high doses to actually replace reg. DHEA. It's basically a DHEA metabolite designed specifically to retain DHEA's immune stimulating and anti-cort effects while greatly reducing it's conversion to test, but on PCT you what something that converts to test, that's the whole point.
01-21-2005, 07:31 PM
01-21-2005, 07:43 PM
01-21-2005, 11:40 PM
01-23-2005, 12:38 AM
Dr D I have been reading up on 6oxo and it appears that the studies show that the subjects test levels returned to baseline after they ceased use of the 6oxo.
My question is - For those who usually suffer from having naturally low test levels would Fenugreek and Trib allow the body to naturally increase testosterone production and keep test levels in the normal range?
The reason I ask is I recently had blood work done and I suffer from having low test and free test levels. It may be related to PH use. However, I have not used any PH products since last August.
01-23-2005, 11:42 AM
I think I've heard that after age 20, your plasma test levels decline at about 10% every 5-10 years. So it depends on the individual's genes, past and recent drug use, etc.. 6-oxo is only going to work when estrogen levels are excessive, and you usually see high test levels too in that situation unless it's right after a cycle, so I'd say Fen and Trib may be better long term choices. Unless, your test is low and your est is high for no apparent reason, but even then it make work at least as well.Originally Posted by NO MERCY
01-23-2005, 11:45 AM
01-23-2005, 12:14 PM
Haven't used it long enough to form an opinion, but I bought ~1.75 ounces of the seed from the bulk section @ Whole Foods for ~$1.00 & capped them myself.Originally Posted by CROWLER
Have considered cracking the seeds to aid absorption.
01-23-2005, 12:17 PM
An coffee grinder works well. I got a little 15$ cheapo electric and it works great.Originally Posted by BodyWizard
01-23-2005, 12:17 PM
Dr.D - have you experimented w/ taking DHEA before bed?
knowing that test levels are highest in the AM, I wonder if PM administration wouldn't support the natural production cycle vs. dosing AM & mid-day
01-23-2005, 12:20 PM
super li'l gizmos, aint they?Originally Posted by DR.D
so you go w/ cracked over whole, then?
(the fenugreek, I mean )
01-23-2005, 12:24 PM
No, don't take it at night. It works hand in hand to balance out with melatonin. You don't want it to be at high levels in you system at the same time that melatonin is, or it messes up you internal timing system. I take 100mg upon waking and again at noon. That follows natural rhythms better. Also, I'll use Fenugreek at night, and it inhibits DHEA bioavailability from the gut, so I never take them at the same time.Originally Posted by BodyWizard
01-23-2005, 12:27 PM
Yeah, because it's just too hard for the body to break the seeds down. Actually, I've never processed my own Fen, but seeds in general are tough to digest, so cracking is needed. I buy my fen commercial because it's cheap enough, but I cap a lot of other stuff.Originally Posted by BodyWizard
01-23-2005, 12:31 PM
Dr.D, you're a treasure!
(knew you were the right man to ask)
That's exactly the feedback I was looking for.
SO - DHEA in the AM/midday, and fenugreek @ night w/ the melatonin.
(props for the speedy response, too!)
01-23-2005, 12:36 PM
01-23-2005, 01:23 PM
01-24-2005, 01:05 AM
Anyone every tried Hydrotest from nutrabolics? the ingredients look good for a test/sex drive booster.
German Tribulus Terrestris 40mg (80% protodioscin)
Designer Pro-Testosterone Complex: 500mg
Fenugreek 4-hydroxy isoleucine
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