For Dr. D and others... increasing test levels

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    For Dr. D and others... increasing test levels


    I ran a search on this but did not find much. Out of all the products on the market 6oxo, trib, etc... What would be the best product to help increase test levels with no rebound issues. I am leaning towards 6oxo but figured I would ask for opinions before making the purchase.

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    Fenugreek works well for me. I hear that 6-oxo works, but have never used it. Formestane should work for that matter, but I've never specifically used it for that. Trib seems to help, especially stacked with a SERM, but not as well as the fen. Oh man, I forgot, I guess Form is no longer an option, Sldg's new one has the best Ki of all these, it will be a good new alternative and stronger that 6-oxo, but I'm not sure when it will be available.
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    I just finished collecting my pct stack, had the novla at the start of the cycle and picked up a few other things along the way. Going to run novla, Fenugreek based solely on Dr.D's ravings and its pretty cheap, Tribulus Terrestris 90%, and avena sativa powder. I should be fairly suppressed after 8 weeks 1-test, we'll see how this works.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Fenugreek works well for me. I hear that 6-oxo works, but have never used it. Formestane should work for that matter, but I've never specifically used it for that. Trib seems to help, especially stacked with a SERM, but not as well as the fen. Oh man, I forgot, I guess Form is no longer an option, Sldg's new one has the best Ki of all these, it will be a good new alternative and stronger that 6-oxo, but I'm not sure when it will be available.
    Okay...from this post I'd assume Ki values somehow are correlated to Test levels. But, through what mechanism? (just curious)
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    Quote Originally Posted by R6Speed
    I just finished collecting my pct stack, had the novla at the start of the cycle and picked up a few other things along the way. Going to run novla, Fenugreek based solely on Dr.D's ravings and its pretty cheap, Tribulus Terrestris 90%, and avena sativa powder. I should be fairly suppressed after 8 weeks 1-test, we'll see how this works.
    Ravings!!! You make me sound like a crazy man
    I guess it was just a matter of time till you realized it, but really, give it a try. It's pretty good stuff with other benefits as well. Like you said, it's cheap so you have nothing to lose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
    Okay...from this post I'd assume Ki values somehow are correlated to Test levels. But, through what mechanism? (just curious)
    Ki is a measure if inhibitory concentration used to rank the potency of these drugs. The lower, the better. It translates into less estrogen, so it correlates to test indirectly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Ravings!!! You make me sound like a crazy man
    I guess it was just a matter of time till you realized it, but really, give it a try. It's pretty good stuff with other benefits as well. Like you said, it's cheap so you have nothing to lose.

    Where do you buy your cheap Fenugreek?
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    I've been using Dr D's suggestion about using 200mg of DHEA in PCT. I just started using it for my last week of PCT and I can really see/feel the difference. Testicle size went way up and libido returned all of a sudden within 3 days of use.

    Another nice, cheap trick courtesy of the Doc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bioman
    I've been using Dr D's suggestion about using 200mg of DHEA in PCT. I just started using it for my last week of PCT and I can really see/feel the difference. Testicle size went way up and libido returned all of a sudden within 3 days of use.

    Another nice, cheap trick courtesy of the Doc.
    correct me if I am wrong, but wont DHEA supress you? how is it a good idea in pct?
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    You'd need to take over 0.5g of DHEA/oral to really suppress I think. Maybe even more, but it supplies a ready precursor to test and you need that during PCT because your 17-keto's(adrenal androgens) are usually suppresses by non-17-alkylated stuff like test, 1-test, dec, etc.. So after a cycle it's a good idea to take some, it helps you bounce faster.

    I buy Fenugreek local, Natures Way brand, but I've seen it cheap at 1fast, NOW brand I believe.
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    sounds like some good stuff. i'll pick some fenugreek up and DHEA and give it a whirl during PCT. good thread.
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    is the DHEA on 1fast any good? says 7-keto DHEA.
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    I think he's referring to standard DHEA. The 7-keto form is also used in PCT but more for cort suppression and thyroid upregulation.

    Regular DHEA can be had anywhere. It's dirt cheap even at a grocery store.
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    Yeah, the 7-keto is not nearly as androgenic. You'd need very high doses to actually replace reg. DHEA. It's basically a DHEA metabolite designed specifically to retain DHEA's immune stimulating and anti-cort effects while greatly reducing it's conversion to test, but on PCT you what something that converts to test, that's the whole point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Ki is a measure if inhibitory concentration used to rank the potency of these drugs. The lower, the better. It translates into less estrogen, so it correlates to test indirectly.
    Thanks Professor D
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
    Thanks Professor D


    GILLIGANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN NNNNN
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    Dr D I have been reading up on 6oxo and it appears that the studies show that the subjects test levels returned to baseline after they ceased use of the 6oxo.

    My question is - For those who usually suffer from having naturally low test levels would Fenugreek and Trib allow the body to naturally increase testosterone production and keep test levels in the normal range?

    The reason I ask is I recently had blood work done and I suffer from having low test and free test levels. It may be related to PH use. However, I have not used any PH products since last August.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NO MERCY
    Dr D I have been reading up on 6oxo and it appears that the studies show that the subjects test levels returned to baseline after they ceased use of the 6oxo.

    My question is - For those who usually suffer from having naturally low test levels would Fenugreek and Trib allow the body to naturally increase testosterone production and keep test levels in the normal range?

    The reason I ask is I recently had blood work done and I suffer from having low test and free test levels. It may be related to PH use. However, I have not used any PH products since last August.
    I think I've heard that after age 20, your plasma test levels decline at about 10% every 5-10 years. So it depends on the individual's genes, past and recent drug use, etc.. 6-oxo is only going to work when estrogen levels are excessive, and you usually see high test levels too in that situation unless it's right after a cycle, so I'd say Fen and Trib may be better long term choices. Unless, your test is low and your est is high for no apparent reason, but even then it make work at least as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CROWLER
    Where do you buy your cheap Fenugreek?
    Haven't used it long enough to form an opinion, but I bought ~1.75 ounces of the seed from the bulk section @ Whole Foods for ~$1.00 & capped them myself.

    Have considered cracking the seeds to aid absorption.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BodyWizard
    Haven't used it long enough to form an opinion, but I bought ~1.75 ounces of the seed from the bulk section @ Whole Foods for ~$1.00 & capped them myself.

    Have considered cracking the seeds to aid absorption.
    An coffee grinder works well. I got a little 15$ cheapo electric and it works great.
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    Dr.D - have you experimented w/ taking DHEA before bed?

    knowing that test levels are highest in the AM, I wonder if PM administration wouldn't support the natural production cycle vs. dosing AM & mid-day
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    An coffee grinder works well. I got a little 15$ cheapo electric and it works great.
    super li'l gizmos, aint they?

    so you go w/ cracked over whole, then?


    (the fenugreek, I mean )
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    Quote Originally Posted by BodyWizard
    Dr.D - have you experimented w/ taking DHEA before bed?

    knowing that test levels are highest in the AM, I wonder if PM administration wouldn't support the natural production cycle vs. dosing AM & mid-day
    No, don't take it at night. It works hand in hand to balance out with melatonin. You don't want it to be at high levels in you system at the same time that melatonin is, or it messes up you internal timing system. I take 100mg upon waking and again at noon. That follows natural rhythms better. Also, I'll use Fenugreek at night, and it inhibits DHEA bioavailability from the gut, so I never take them at the same time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BodyWizard
    super li'l gizmos, aint they?

    so you go w/ cracked over whole, then?


    (the fenugreek, I mean )
    Yeah, because it's just too hard for the body to break the seeds down. Actually, I've never processed my own Fen, but seeds in general are tough to digest, so cracking is needed. I buy my fen commercial because it's cheap enough, but I cap a lot of other stuff.
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    Dr.D, you're a treasure!
    (knew you were the right man to ask)

    That's exactly the feedback I was looking for.
    SO - DHEA in the AM/midday, and fenugreek @ night w/ the melatonin.

    (props for the speedy response, too!)
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    agreed, thanks Dr. D.
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    anytime fellas, never stop growing!
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    Anyone every tried Hydrotest from nutrabolics? the ingredients look good for a test/sex drive booster.
    German Tribulus Terrestris 40mg (80% protodioscin)
    Designer Pro-Testosterone Complex: 500mg
    Eurycoma Longifolia
    Avena Sativa
    Rhodiola Rosea
    Fenugreek 4-hydroxy isoleucine
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    Nope never used it and its the first I have heard of it
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    Trib and Fenugreek mentioned here also

    Prohormones are out now what's next ???
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    What dosage of fenugreek is usual per day?
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    Quote Originally Posted by size
    Anyone every tried Hydrotest from nutrabolics? the ingredients look good for a test/sex drive booster.
    German Tribulus Terrestris 40mg (80% protodioscin)
    Designer Pro-Testosterone Complex: 500mg
    Eurycoma Longifolia
    Avena Sativa
    Rhodiola Rosea
    Fenugreek 4-hydroxy isoleucine
    That does look good, I may actually check it out!

    I have used fenugreek, NOW's brand at 6 caps, 2 caps 3x daily. It did "appear" to work, but these are all so subjective I'm not sure. I was definitely horny, kind of like FUZU.
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    I've also been taking Fenugreek 6-10caps (Solaray) which has the same potency as NOW and have yet to feel anything.
    I'm not on PCT, this is more to combat SAD symptoms.
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    Quote Originally Posted by size
    Anyone every tried Hydrotest from nutrabolics?

    Fenugreek 4-hydroxy isoleucine[/I]
    This amino is more noted for it's effect on glocuse metabolism than anything else. Can't imagine why it would be sold like this, unless the whole herb is present too.
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    a whole lot of good info thanks Doc.
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    I found at bulk foods you can order ground seeds from 3oz up five pound for an excellent price,(20.00). They also have whole seeds.
    http://www.bulkfoods.com/search_resu...hParamTxt=1612
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    Thank you for the link, that is a good price. Might have to add one more to the list of things I cap

    I buy gel caps by the 1000's, it's time consuming but so much cheaper. Actually, a scoop could just be thrown in the night time shake
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    Where is the best place to buy DHEA? I know it is common, but where is the best quality DHEA in 100/mg caps if possible for a good price?


    Mr.50
  

  
 

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