For Dr. D and others... increasing test levels

Page 1 of 3 123 Last
  1. Advanced Member
    NO MERCY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    745
    Rep Power
    620
    Level
    21
    Lv. Percent
    44.7%

    For Dr. D and others... increasing test levels


    I ran a search on this but did not find much. Out of all the products on the market 6oxo, trib, etc... What would be the best product to help increase test levels with no rebound issues. I am leaning towards 6oxo but figured I would ask for opinions before making the purchase.

  2. Elite Member
    DR.D's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  228 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    6,869
    Rep Power
    496045
    Level
    58
    Lv. Percent
    51.71%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    Fenugreek works well for me. I hear that 6-oxo works, but have never used it. Formestane should work for that matter, but I've never specifically used it for that. Trib seems to help, especially stacked with a SERM, but not as well as the fen. Oh man, I forgot, I guess Form is no longer an option, Sldg's new one has the best Ki of all these, it will be a good new alternative and stronger that 6-oxo, but I'm not sure when it will be available.
  3. Board Supporter
    R6Speed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Age
    32
    Posts
    124
    Rep Power
    203
    Level
    10
    Lv. Percent
    19.08%

    I just finished collecting my pct stack, had the novla at the start of the cycle and picked up a few other things along the way. Going to run novla, Fenugreek based solely on Dr.D's ravings and its pretty cheap, Tribulus Terrestris 90%, and avena sativa powder. I should be fairly suppressed after 8 weeks 1-test, we'll see how this works.
    •   
       

  4. Registered User
    kwyckemynd00's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    32
    Posts
    5,324
    Rep Power
    15815
    Level
    53
    Lv. Percent
    2.84%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Fenugreek works well for me. I hear that 6-oxo works, but have never used it. Formestane should work for that matter, but I've never specifically used it for that. Trib seems to help, especially stacked with a SERM, but not as well as the fen. Oh man, I forgot, I guess Form is no longer an option, Sldg's new one has the best Ki of all these, it will be a good new alternative and stronger that 6-oxo, but I'm not sure when it will be available.
    Okay...from this post I'd assume Ki values somehow are correlated to Test levels. But, through what mechanism? (just curious)
  5. Elite Member
    DR.D's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  228 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    6,869
    Rep Power
    496045
    Level
    58
    Lv. Percent
    51.71%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by R6Speed
    I just finished collecting my pct stack, had the novla at the start of the cycle and picked up a few other things along the way. Going to run novla, Fenugreek based solely on Dr.D's ravings and its pretty cheap, Tribulus Terrestris 90%, and avena sativa powder. I should be fairly suppressed after 8 weeks 1-test, we'll see how this works.
    Ravings!!! You make me sound like a crazy man
    I guess it was just a matter of time till you realized it, but really, give it a try. It's pretty good stuff with other benefits as well. Like you said, it's cheap so you have nothing to lose.
  6. Elite Member
    DR.D's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  228 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    6,869
    Rep Power
    496045
    Level
    58
    Lv. Percent
    51.71%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
    Okay...from this post I'd assume Ki values somehow are correlated to Test levels. But, through what mechanism? (just curious)
    Ki is a measure if inhibitory concentration used to rank the potency of these drugs. The lower, the better. It translates into less estrogen, so it correlates to test indirectly.
  7. Anabolic Innovations Owner
    CROWLER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    6,544
    Rep Power
    4837
    Level
    54
    Lv. Percent
    55.77%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Ravings!!! You make me sound like a crazy man
    I guess it was just a matter of time till you realized it, but really, give it a try. It's pretty good stuff with other benefits as well. Like you said, it's cheap so you have nothing to lose.

    Where do you buy your cheap Fenugreek?
  8. Elite Member
    bioman's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Age
    42
    Posts
    7,716
    Rep Power
    513553
    Level
    59
    Lv. Percent
    91.33%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting Authority

    I've been using Dr D's suggestion about using 200mg of DHEA in PCT. I just started using it for my last week of PCT and I can really see/feel the difference. Testicle size went way up and libido returned all of a sudden within 3 days of use.

    Another nice, cheap trick courtesy of the Doc.
  9. New Member
    Meerschaum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Age
    31
    Posts
    90
    Rep Power
    181
    Level
    10
    Lv. Percent
    90.51%

    Quote Originally Posted by bioman
    I've been using Dr D's suggestion about using 200mg of DHEA in PCT. I just started using it for my last week of PCT and I can really see/feel the difference. Testicle size went way up and libido returned all of a sudden within 3 days of use.

    Another nice, cheap trick courtesy of the Doc.
    correct me if I am wrong, but wont DHEA supress you? how is it a good idea in pct?
  10. Elite Member
    DR.D's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  228 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    6,869
    Rep Power
    496045
    Level
    58
    Lv. Percent
    51.71%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    You'd need to take over 0.5g of DHEA/oral to really suppress I think. Maybe even more, but it supplies a ready precursor to test and you need that during PCT because your 17-keto's(adrenal androgens) are usually suppresses by non-17-alkylated stuff like test, 1-test, dec, etc.. So after a cycle it's a good idea to take some, it helps you bounce faster.

    I buy Fenugreek local, Natures Way brand, but I've seen it cheap at 1fast, NOW brand I believe.
  11. Registered User
    Beelzebub's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Age
    36
    Posts
    6,688
    Rep Power
    12755
    Level
    55
    Lv. Percent
    73.43%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    sounds like some good stuff. i'll pick some fenugreek up and DHEA and give it a whirl during PCT. good thread.
  12. Registered User
    Beelzebub's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Age
    36
    Posts
    6,688
    Rep Power
    12755
    Level
    55
    Lv. Percent
    73.43%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    is the DHEA on 1fast any good? says 7-keto DHEA.
  13. Elite Member
    bioman's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Age
    42
    Posts
    7,716
    Rep Power
    513553
    Level
    59
    Lv. Percent
    91.33%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting Authority

    I think he's referring to standard DHEA. The 7-keto form is also used in PCT but more for cort suppression and thyroid upregulation.

    Regular DHEA can be had anywhere. It's dirt cheap even at a grocery store.
  14. Elite Member
    DR.D's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  228 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    6,869
    Rep Power
    496045
    Level
    58
    Lv. Percent
    51.71%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    Yeah, the 7-keto is not nearly as androgenic. You'd need very high doses to actually replace reg. DHEA. It's basically a DHEA metabolite designed specifically to retain DHEA's immune stimulating and anti-cort effects while greatly reducing it's conversion to test, but on PCT you what something that converts to test, that's the whole point.
  15. Registered User
    kwyckemynd00's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    32
    Posts
    5,324
    Rep Power
    15815
    Level
    53
    Lv. Percent
    2.84%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Ki is a measure if inhibitory concentration used to rank the potency of these drugs. The lower, the better. It translates into less estrogen, so it correlates to test indirectly.
    Thanks Professor D
  16. Anabolic Innovations Owner
    CROWLER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    6,544
    Rep Power
    4837
    Level
    54
    Lv. Percent
    55.77%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
    Thanks Professor D


    GILLIGANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN NNNNN
  17. Advanced Member
    NO MERCY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    745
    Rep Power
    620
    Level
    21
    Lv. Percent
    44.7%

    Thanks Dr. D and others
  18. Advanced Member
    NO MERCY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    745
    Rep Power
    620
    Level
    21
    Lv. Percent
    44.7%

    Dr D I have been reading up on 6oxo and it appears that the studies show that the subjects test levels returned to baseline after they ceased use of the 6oxo.

    My question is - For those who usually suffer from having naturally low test levels would Fenugreek and Trib allow the body to naturally increase testosterone production and keep test levels in the normal range?

    The reason I ask is I recently had blood work done and I suffer from having low test and free test levels. It may be related to PH use. However, I have not used any PH products since last August.
  19. Elite Member
    DR.D's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  228 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    6,869
    Rep Power
    496045
    Level
    58
    Lv. Percent
    51.71%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by NO MERCY
    Dr D I have been reading up on 6oxo and it appears that the studies show that the subjects test levels returned to baseline after they ceased use of the 6oxo.

    My question is - For those who usually suffer from having naturally low test levels would Fenugreek and Trib allow the body to naturally increase testosterone production and keep test levels in the normal range?

    The reason I ask is I recently had blood work done and I suffer from having low test and free test levels. It may be related to PH use. However, I have not used any PH products since last August.
    I think I've heard that after age 20, your plasma test levels decline at about 10% every 5-10 years. So it depends on the individual's genes, past and recent drug use, etc.. 6-oxo is only going to work when estrogen levels are excessive, and you usually see high test levels too in that situation unless it's right after a cycle, so I'd say Fen and Trib may be better long term choices. Unless, your test is low and your est is high for no apparent reason, but even then it make work at least as well.
  20. Advanced Member
    NO MERCY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    745
    Rep Power
    620
    Level
    21
    Lv. Percent
    44.7%

    Thanks
  21. Registered User
    BodyWizard's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Age
    63
    Posts
    2,373
    Rep Power
    1317
    Level
    35
    Lv. Percent
    95.56%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by CROWLER
    Where do you buy your cheap Fenugreek?
    Haven't used it long enough to form an opinion, but I bought ~1.75 ounces of the seed from the bulk section @ Whole Foods for ~$1.00 & capped them myself.

    Have considered cracking the seeds to aid absorption.
  22. Elite Member
    DR.D's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  228 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    6,869
    Rep Power
    496045
    Level
    58
    Lv. Percent
    51.71%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by BodyWizard
    Haven't used it long enough to form an opinion, but I bought ~1.75 ounces of the seed from the bulk section @ Whole Foods for ~$1.00 & capped them myself.

    Have considered cracking the seeds to aid absorption.
    An coffee grinder works well. I got a little 15$ cheapo electric and it works great.
  23. Registered User
    BodyWizard's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Age
    63
    Posts
    2,373
    Rep Power
    1317
    Level
    35
    Lv. Percent
    95.56%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Dr.D - have you experimented w/ taking DHEA before bed?

    knowing that test levels are highest in the AM, I wonder if PM administration wouldn't support the natural production cycle vs. dosing AM & mid-day
  24. Registered User
    BodyWizard's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Age
    63
    Posts
    2,373
    Rep Power
    1317
    Level
    35
    Lv. Percent
    95.56%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    An coffee grinder works well. I got a little 15$ cheapo electric and it works great.
    super li'l gizmos, aint they?

    so you go w/ cracked over whole, then?


    (the fenugreek, I mean )
  25. Elite Member
    DR.D's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  228 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    6,869
    Rep Power
    496045
    Level
    58
    Lv. Percent
    51.71%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by BodyWizard
    Dr.D - have you experimented w/ taking DHEA before bed?

    knowing that test levels are highest in the AM, I wonder if PM administration wouldn't support the natural production cycle vs. dosing AM & mid-day
    No, don't take it at night. It works hand in hand to balance out with melatonin. You don't want it to be at high levels in you system at the same time that melatonin is, or it messes up you internal timing system. I take 100mg upon waking and again at noon. That follows natural rhythms better. Also, I'll use Fenugreek at night, and it inhibits DHEA bioavailability from the gut, so I never take them at the same time.
  26. Elite Member
    DR.D's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  228 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    6,869
    Rep Power
    496045
    Level
    58
    Lv. Percent
    51.71%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by BodyWizard
    super li'l gizmos, aint they?

    so you go w/ cracked over whole, then?


    (the fenugreek, I mean )
    Yeah, because it's just too hard for the body to break the seeds down. Actually, I've never processed my own Fen, but seeds in general are tough to digest, so cracking is needed. I buy my fen commercial because it's cheap enough, but I cap a lot of other stuff.
  27. Registered User
    BodyWizard's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Age
    63
    Posts
    2,373
    Rep Power
    1317
    Level
    35
    Lv. Percent
    95.56%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Dr.D, you're a treasure!
    (knew you were the right man to ask)

    That's exactly the feedback I was looking for.
    SO - DHEA in the AM/midday, and fenugreek @ night w/ the melatonin.

    (props for the speedy response, too!)
  28. Registered User
    Beelzebub's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Age
    36
    Posts
    6,688
    Rep Power
    12755
    Level
    55
    Lv. Percent
    73.43%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    agreed, thanks Dr. D.
  29. Elite Member
    DR.D's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  228 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    6,869
    Rep Power
    496045
    Level
    58
    Lv. Percent
    51.71%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    anytime fellas, never stop growing!
  30. Professional Member
    size's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Age
    42
    Posts
    4,231
    Rep Power
    2275
    Level
    45
    Lv. Percent
    27.24%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Anyone every tried Hydrotest from nutrabolics? the ingredients look good for a test/sex drive booster.
    German Tribulus Terrestris 40mg (80% protodioscin)
    Designer Pro-Testosterone Complex: 500mg
    Eurycoma Longifolia
    Avena Sativa
    Rhodiola Rosea
    Fenugreek 4-hydroxy isoleucine
  31. Advanced Member
    NO MERCY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    745
    Rep Power
    620
    Level
    21
    Lv. Percent
    44.7%

    Nope never used it and its the first I have heard of it
  32. Advanced Member
    NO MERCY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    745
    Rep Power
    620
    Level
    21
    Lv. Percent
    44.7%

    Trib and Fenugreek mentioned here also

    Prohormones are out now what's next ???
  33. New Member
    mattster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Age
    40
    Posts
    9
    Rep Power
    149
    Level
    3
    Lv. Percent
    23.5%

    What dosage of fenugreek is usual per day?
  34. Registered User
    jweave23's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  237 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    2,610
    Rep Power
    1459
    Level
    37
    Lv. Percent
    32.3%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by size
    Anyone every tried Hydrotest from nutrabolics? the ingredients look good for a test/sex drive booster.
    German Tribulus Terrestris 40mg (80% protodioscin)
    Designer Pro-Testosterone Complex: 500mg
    Eurycoma Longifolia
    Avena Sativa
    Rhodiola Rosea
    Fenugreek 4-hydroxy isoleucine
    That does look good, I may actually check it out!

    I have used fenugreek, NOW's brand at 6 caps, 2 caps 3x daily. It did "appear" to work, but these are all so subjective I'm not sure. I was definitely horny, kind of like FUZU.
  35. Senior Member
    MarcusG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,223
    Rep Power
    761
    Level
    28
    Lv. Percent
    27.04%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    I've also been taking Fenugreek 6-10caps (Solaray) which has the same potency as NOW and have yet to feel anything.
    I'm not on PCT, this is more to combat SAD symptoms.
  36. Elite Member
    DR.D's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  228 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    6,869
    Rep Power
    496045
    Level
    58
    Lv. Percent
    51.71%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by size
    Anyone every tried Hydrotest from nutrabolics?

    Fenugreek 4-hydroxy isoleucine[/I]
    This amino is more noted for it's effect on glocuse metabolism than anything else. Can't imagine why it would be sold like this, unless the whole herb is present too.
  37. Registered User
    ericnb_98's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Age
    52
    Posts
    136
    Rep Power
    196
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    40.64%

    a whole lot of good info thanks Doc.
  38. Registered User
    ericnb_98's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Age
    52
    Posts
    136
    Rep Power
    196
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    40.64%

    I found at bulk foods you can order ground seeds from 3oz up five pound for an excellent price,(20.00). They also have whole seeds.
    http://www.bulkfoods.com/search_resu...hParamTxt=1612
  39. Elite Member
    DR.D's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  228 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    6,869
    Rep Power
    496045
    Level
    58
    Lv. Percent
    51.71%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    Thank you for the link, that is a good price. Might have to add one more to the list of things I cap

    I buy gel caps by the 1000's, it's time consuming but so much cheaper. Actually, a scoop could just be thrown in the night time shake
  40. Board Supporter
    Mr.50's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  208 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Age
    40
    Posts
    3,226
    Rep Power
    1875
    Level
    40
    Lv. Percent
    35.89%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Where is the best place to buy DHEA? I know it is common, but where is the best quality DHEA in 100/mg caps if possible for a good price?


    Mr.50
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Toremifene (fareston) - for Dr.D and others
    By turkish in forum Post Cycle Therapy
    Replies: 306
    Last Post: 01-16-2015, 07:11 PM
  2. Questin for Dr. John and others.
    By SufferingEd in forum Male Anti-Aging Medicine
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-16-2007, 03:43 PM
  3. Replies: 11
    Last Post: 07-14-2006, 03:45 AM
  4. Nolva/Clomid question for Dr. D and others
    By bigguns77 in forum Post Cycle Therapy
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-26-2006, 08:00 PM
  5. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-28-2003, 12:12 AM
Log in
Log in