For Dr. D and others... increasing test levels

[DAdams91982]

Anyone every tried Hydrotest from nutrabolics? the ingredients look good for a test/sex drive booster.
German Tribulus Terrestris 40mg (80% protodioscin)
Designer Pro-Testosterone Complex: 500mg
Eurycoma Longifolia
Avena Sativa
Rhodiola Rosea
Fenugreek 4-hydroxy isoleucine

I used Hydrotest as a standalone to see how it "felt" (never had any blood work). I lost alot of water weight (pissing every 30 mins), was easily pissed-off, and my sex drive was thru the roof. I believe my T was raised a substantial amount by this product.

Heard bad things about nutrabolics, with purity, and dosage in capsules... so I try to stay clear.

Adams

 

[DR.D]

Plus, I think they missed the point with the fenugreek. It's not it's amino acid content that gives it sexual enhancing qualities. It's the sterol composition.

 

[turkish]

Seems like Dr.D is the man , but anybody knoledgeable is welcome and much appreciated to make some suggestions.
As I live in Turkey, I have no difficulties in purchasing drugs from the pharmacy. They don't ask a prescription or anything, just like shopping from the grocery. Anyway, the question is : if you were me, what would be your drug of choice to raise test levels indirectly (I'm not ready to juice yet) without creating any complications? Tamoxifene? Raloxifene? Formestane? Or anything else I can find in the pharmacy?

Thanks in advance.

 

[DR.D]

I don't know if I'm "the man", but I've done a few PCT's alright!

On the SERM's, tamoxifene, raloxifene & cyclofenil work, but not as well as Clomid or Fareston. Let me know what you go with and I'll help you with the doses if you'd like. Also, don't forget about Fenugreek and hCG.

 

[size]

Plus, I think they missed the point with the fenugreek. It's not it's amino acid content that gives it sexual enhancing qualities. It's the sterol composition.

I actually emailed Nutrabolics about the Fenugreek 4-hydroxy isoleucine to ask why that form was chosen. I never got a response.

 

[Mr.50]

Dr.D what is Fareston and where do you get it?

I don't know if I'm "the man", but I've done a few PCT's alright!

On the SERM's, tamoxifene, raloxifene & cyclofenil work, but not as well as Clomid or Fareston. Let me know what you go with and I'll help you with the doses if you'd like. Also, don't forget about Fenugreek and hCG.

 

[Mr.50]

Forgetit. I got it.

Dr.D what is Fareston and where do you get it?

 

[DR.D]

Forgetit. I got it.

You got it? Well send me some! (lol) If we start to hassle Custom, I bet he'd start to carry it. I haven't seen a good source in years.

 

[DR.D]

I actually emailed Nutrabolics about the Fenugreek 4-hydroxy isoleucine to ask why that form was chosen. I never got a response.

That makes sense. The market for this is not as a sensual booster, but a regulator of blood sugar issues.

 

[turkish]

I don't know if I'm "the man", but I've done a few PCT's alright!

On the SERM's, tamoxifene, raloxifene & cyclofenil work, but not as well as Clomid or Fareston. Let me know what you go with and I'll help you with the doses if you'd like. Also, don't forget about Fenugreek and hCG.

Thanks doc. Actually I wasn't asking this for PCT but as a standalone T boosting cycle (and maybe at the same time kill the very little bit of pubertal puffyness on my chest).
I think I will go with Raloxifene stacked with Rebound XT : do you think this is a good idea or would it be overkill? From what I have read up to now they would be a good combo and I guess it can also prevent a potential estrogen rebound if I start the RXT a bit later than the ralox and stop it a week later than the end of ralox administration.
And one last question : should I take Fenugreek along with this cycle?

Your help with the dosages will be much appreciated.

 

[SilentScream27]

Thanks doc. Actually I wasn't asking this for PCT but as a standalone T boosting cycle (and maybe at the same time kill the very little bit of pubertal puffyness on my chest).
I think I will go with Raloxifene stacked with Rebound XT : do you think this is a good idea or would it be overkill? From what I have read up to now they would be a good combo and I guess it can also prevent a potential estrogen rebound if I start the RXT a bit later than the ralox and stop it a week later than the end of ralox administration.
And one last question : should I take Fenugreek along with this cycle?

Your help with the dosages will be much appreciated.

If I may interject, an AI like ATD (rebound XT) is far cheaper and far more effective than a SERM like raloxifene, which can have unknown negative psychological (read: clomid) and physiological effects. ATD alone w/ a taper seems to be the best choice for a standalone strength/hardness/libido cycle.

 

[DR.D]

Thanks doc. Actually I wasn't asking this for PCT but as a standalone T boosting cycle (and maybe at the same time kill the very little bit of pubertal puffyness on my chest).
I think I will go with Raloxifene stacked with Rebound XT : do you think this is a good idea or would it be overkill? From what I have read up to now they would be a good combo and I guess it can also prevent a potential estrogen rebound if I start the RXT a bit later than the ralox and stop it a week later than the end of ralox administration.
And one last question : should I take Fenugreek along with this cycle?

Your help with the dosages will be much appreciated.

SS makes an excellent point. RXT would be a great low-tox standalone. However, I trust ral for long term use moreso than the other SERMs. I've seen people use it for 3 years straight with no complications. Here is my suggestion if you'd like to stack them: ral 60mg/night, ATD 25mg/morning, fen @ ~2.5, 3, 3.5g/night on a 3:1 on/off cycle. In other words, ramp it up for 3 wks (4,5,6 pills/night) then off 1 wk before repeating.

 

[snakebyte05]

Does anyone have an easy way to dose 200 mgs or 100mgs without a scale? I have a scale at home I could use for this, but it is very hard to measure something out when you are not at home. Right now the dhea I have is 625mgs per 1/4tsp. I have been just trying to take 1/2 of 1/4tsp to lower the dose.

 

[turkish]

SS makes an excellent point. RXT would be a great low-tox standalone. However, I trust ral for long term use moreso than the other SERMs. I've seen people use it for 3 years straight with no complications. Here is my suggestion if you'd like to stack them: ral 60mg/night, ATD 25mg/morning, fen @ ~2.5, 3, 3.5g/night on a 3:1 on/off cycle. In other words, ramp it up for 3 wks (4,5,6 pills/night) then off 1 wk before repeating.

Thanks a lot doc, I'll go with a ral + rxt + fenugreek combo then. I'll do a log/review and let am.com folks know how it goes. But I'd like to ask you something : don't I need to taper up/down with the ral and the atd?

If I may interject, an AI like ATD (rebound XT) is far cheaper and far more effective than a SERM like raloxifene, which can have unknown negative psychological (read: clomid) and physiological effects. ATD alone w/ a taper seems to be the best choice for a standalone strength/hardness/libido cycle.

Thanks for interjecting
I've been doing some reading on raloxifene and the psychological sides seem to be like nowhere near the "clomid blues". I'm also aiming to reduce some chest puffyness, so I'll keep raloxifene in the stack for that reason as well. Plus, I got Dr.D's authorization, so..

 

[DR.D]

No taper is needed. These doses are already the lowest possible dose for the ral and ATD (just 1 pill/cap each). The ral has a 24hr half-life so steady state occurs in practically about 6 days and no serious rebound has been noted that I am aware of. ATD needs no taper at the end, but you could double up the dose the first few days just to kick it off if you like.

 

[snakebyte05]

Bump to the dhea dosing, jsut wondering if everyone uses a scale for everytime they take dhea to get the correct amount?

 

[DR.D]

Does anyone have an easy way to dose 200 mgs or 100mgs without a scale? I have a scale at home I could use for this, but it is very hard to measure something out when you are not at home. Right now the dhea I have is 625mgs per 1/4tsp. I have been just trying to take 1/2 of 1/4tsp to lower the dose.

Sorry man! I almost forgot. I like capping the powder personally, then you don't need a really good scale so much. Otherwise, I'd use the "eyeball" technique. Measure out your 625mgs, then visually split that into 3 equal piles with a razor or biz card. Then you have ~200mg doses. You can split those once more if a 100mg dose is needed.

 

[snakebyte05]

Easy enough for me. I was just wondering since tomorrow I start my pct and had been trying to think of a good way to dose the DHEA. The only other question I had is most pct's like ATD say to take all the caps at night. Is it better to take them all before bed, or space them out throughout the day?

 

[DR.D]

Easy enough for me. I was just wondering since tomorrow I start my pct and had been trying to think of a good way to dose the DHEA. The only other question I had is most pct's like ATD say to take all the caps at night. Is it better to take them all before bed, or space them out throughout the day?

I depends on the dose. If you plan to take more than one, you could space it out. If only using 1 cap, take at night.

 

[chainsaw]

When is the best time to take Fenugreek I an using Dr. D's recomendation of 4 weeks 3,4,5,6. I have read a that it is good to consume post workout with dextrose.

 

[DR.D]

When is the best time to take Fenugreek I an using Dr. D's recomendation of 4 weeks 3,4,5,6. I have read a that it is good to consume post workout with dextrose.

Yes, post w/o if your goal is to promote hypoglycemia, but take the whole dose at bedtime for PCT.

 

[Mach .78]

Easy enough for me. I was just wondering since tomorrow I start my pct and had been trying to think of a good way to dose the DHEA. The only other question I had is most pct's like ATD say to take all the caps at night. Is it better to take them all before bed, or space them out throughout the day?

Mix up a transdermal. I've been taking DHEA/7 oxo Dhea for a week, in the morning and at noon like this. 3 grams of each in an 8oz. bottle of Dermabolics carrier matrix. 2 sprays morning/ 2 sprays at noon. 2 sprays on the abs, 2 sprays on the love handles. I really like this combo. You can feel it working.

 

[snakebyte05]

Mix up a transdermal. I've been taking DHEA/7 oxo Dhea for a week, in the morning and at noon like this. 3 grams of each in an 8oz. bottle of Dermabolics carrier matrix. 2 sprays morning/ 2 sprays at noon. 2 sprays on the abs, 2 sprays on the love handles. I really like this combo. You can feel it working.

Well if I had the money to order some I would definatly do this, but i am heading back to college in 2 days and just dropped a good amount of money towards bills.

 

[lifted]

I've been wanting to try out fenugreek for awhile now...and am just now getting around to it. I'll be taking it just by itself and this isn't during PCT or anything, so what do you guys think my dose and time of dose should be? And how long can I run this before I should take a break? I'm just trying to get some of the benefits of erections and higher ejaculation volume...although T boosting would be nice too. Thx for any help.

 

[SilentScream27]

Mix up a transdermal. I've been taking DHEA/7 oxo Dhea for a week, in the morning and at noon like this. 3 grams of each in an 8oz. bottle of Dermabolics carrier matrix. 2 sprays morning/ 2 sprays at noon. 2 sprays on the abs, 2 sprays on the love handles. I really like this combo. You can feel it working.

the dermabolics matrix gives systematic delivery of drugs, so where you sprayed it wouldnt matter. avant labs gel #3 (not yet released, was used for absolved) gives local delivery.

 

[Mach .78]

the dermabolics matrix gives systematic delivery of drugs, so where you sprayed it wouldnt matter. avant labs gel #3 (not yet released, was used for absolved) gives local delivery.

That's cool. It works, I'll say that. I'm a lean 190 at 7% bf. Can't wait to follow up an Ergo/SD run with this stuff.

 

[Lithuanian Bear]

Novadex XT

You'd need to take over 0.5g of DHEA/oral to really suppress I think. Maybe even more, but it supplies a ready precursor to test and you need that during PCT because your 17-keto's(adrenal androgens) are usually suppresses by non-17-alkylated stuff like test, 1-test, dec, etc.. So after a cycle it's a good idea to take some, it helps you bounce faster.

I buy Fenugreek local, Natures Way brand, but I've seen it cheap at 1fast, NOW brand I believe.

Do you think Novadex XT by Gaspari will get my boys back into there normal swing? I did a 4 week s/drol cycle and didn't really notice that big of a shutdown . Also How vitol is a cortisol blocker as part oof my PCT?

 

[DR.D]

Do you think Novadex XT by Gaspari will get my boys back into there normal swing? I did a 4 week s/drol cycle and didn't really notice that big of a shutdown . Also How vitol is a cortisol blocker as part oof my PCT?

I'm not sure, I haven't tried his product. What's the active ingredient? And what is Vitol?? Sorry, I haven't been getting out much!

 

[Lithuanian Bear]

I'm not sure, I haven't tried his product. What's the active ingredient? And what is Vitol?? Sorry, I haven't been getting out much!

Vitol means how important...

 

[Nate Dawg]

Novedex is ATD I believe, the same thing everyone is talking about here. It would work just fine for your pct. Oh and "vitol" is spelled "vital"

 

[DR.D]

Vitol means how important...

Oh, "vitol", I see! Yes, it is very important. 7-OH is effective but you can sub DHEA in higher doses if you have no other means. There are a small handful of other OTC and medical things available as well. Cortisol is high after a cycle and eats muscles, vascularity, and connective tissue.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Vitol means how important...

That would be "vital"

 

[turkish]

Novedex is ATD I believe, the same thing everyone is talking about here. It would work just fine for your pct. Oh and "vitol" is spelled "vital"

Nice sig Dawg! :thumbsup:

 

[biomax]

I still have some Avena Sativa left.Would it be of any benefit to add it to Stuff like a fenugreek/Dhea stack to improve test levels? If so, what will be the best time to take it?

Thanx
Going to the Max

 

[DR.D]

I still have some Avena Sativa left.Would it be of any benefit to add it to Stuff like a fenugreek/Dhea stack to improve test levels? If so, what will be the best time to take it?

Thanx
Going to the Max

I wouldn't hurt, but it's usually used for situational libido improvement combined with HGW or other stuff.

 

[biomax]

Thanx for the reply, but can you enlighten me, what is HGW?The reason I am asking is, that libido improvement is one of the core areas I want to address.

Thanx
Biomax

 

[Mr.50]

Horney Goat Weed.

Thanx for the reply, but can you enlighten me, what is HGW?The reason I am asking is, that libido improvement is one of the core areas I want to address.

Thanx
Biomax

 

[DR.D]

Yeah, a Horny goat weed, macca, longjack, avena sativa combo will do it 90% of the time as far as libido.

 

[biomax]

I am going to get me a local brand of libido booster that contains Maca,HGW and some other stuff and use it with the Avena Sativa, I have left.Believe it will do the trick.
Thanx again to Dr.D for sharing his vast knowledge with us other guys, that still has alot to learn.

 

[DR.D]

Thanx again to Dr.D for sharing his vast knowledge with us other guys, that still has alot to learn.

It's no problem. Believe me, it goes both ways! I have learned a lot from all you guys too and am just happy when I can contribute.

 

[milwood]

Yeah, a Horny goat weed, macca, longjack, avena sativa combo will do it 90% of the time as far as libido.

anyone know the place to get longjack powder cheap? 1Fast doesn't have it anymore.

 

[DR.D]

anyone know the place to get longjack powder cheap? 1Fast doesn't have it anymore.

Herbal Powers sells a great lonjack coffee called Enerdisia. It really works pretty well for situational libido enhancement! They also sell raw LJ powder and a 1:100 LJ extract, both of which I have tried. The raw did not work, even after prolonged use at up to 30g/day and I got the worst form of gyno in my life from the high potency concentrate. 2 months of Nolva didn't fix it, had to use Permax finally for a cure. I will never use those two products of theirs again, but I still use the herbal coffee on occasion. :thumbsup:

 

[Lithuanian Bear]

Herbal Powers sells a great lonjack coffee called Enerdisia. It really works pretty well for situational libido enhancement! They also sell raw LJ powder and a 1:100 LJ extract, both of which I have tried. The raw did not work, even after prolonged use at up to 30g/day and I got the worst form of gyno in my life from the high potency concentrate. 2 months of Nolva didn't fix it, had to use Permax finally for a cure. I will never use those two products of theirs again, but I still use the herbal coffee on occasion. :thumbsup:

Dr. D when you say cortisol level eats muscles and conective tissue especially after a cycle ..I wonder if thats why I have this nagging pain in the crook of my arm just below the bicep like this morning it is sore and I did no pulling movements yesterday
only chest (pushing) I am going to the doctor today I will mention it to him... What do you suggest after my next PCT to add to my Novadex for a cortisol blocker I think alri has stuff called retain and Anabolic extreme is coming out with I think the same name?

 

[badbart]

ZINC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its all about the zinc and magnesium for me this combo works wonders for me! I take 50mg zinc and 400mg Magnesium everyday and it works great. Sex drive goes way up, balls are bigger, mood is better and I put on muscle faster and a few zits on my face. Zinc and magnesium was not a magic PCT for me but for raising levels when not on or suppressed and keeping them raised it works wonders. But I also think I'm naturally low on zinc and magnesium, so supplementing with zinc and magnesium shows great results.

 

[DR.D]

Dr. D when you say cortisol level eats muscles and conective tissue especially after a cycle ..I wonder if thats why I have this nagging pain in the crook of my arm just below the bicep like this morning it is sore and I did no pulling movements yesterday
only chest (pushing) I am going to the doctor today I will mention it to him... What do you suggest after my next PCT to add to my Novadex for a cortisol blocker I think alri has stuff called retain and Anabolic extreme is coming out with I think the same name?

7-oxo, 7-OH (Lean Xtreme), 5AD and DHEA are all good, cheap cortisol antagonists. It's ironic that a corticoid like cortisol may help relieve some of your acute pain right now but actually does more damage in the end. Same with NSAIs too.

 

[rhinochaser48]

7-oxo, 7-OH (Lean Xtreme), 5AD and DHEA are all good, cheap cortisol antagonists. It's ironic that a corticoid like cortisol may help relieve some of your acute pain right now but actually does more damage in the end. Same with NSAIs too.

Is 5AD still available? Didn't it go away with the ban? Since it was never very popular, I can't imagine anybody has a stock of it.

I have a hard time buying into cortisol suppression as a good thing even for young, healthy adults. Without the normal glucocorticoid pulses throughout the day, combine that with low testosterone, and possibly elevated estrogen, you're pushing the envelope on autoimmune problems. Run enough cycles, especially long ones, and you might very well end up with joint erosions, nervous system problems, psoriasis, intestinal bowel disease, etc.

These, to me, are all worse than a little bit of muscle loss. And during the short period it would take for the glucocorticoid pulses to curb to a normal level, I'd hardly worry about tendon issues.

I'm genetically predisosed to this, and have made my own case worse by buying into the 'cortisol is bad' campaign.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[DR.D]

Rhinochaser48,
You are correct for the most part. You need a little cort in your system to control inflammation and regulate mineral balance and blood sugar. However, just after a cycle cortisol is abnormally elevated and must be opposed or reduced for a few weeks after. Not just to prevent muscle loss but to prevent an immune crash. High cort from stress or post cycle is quite anti-angiogenic too. It eats up muscles, blood vessels, connective tissue, and blunts immune response. But I agree with you that under normal conditions, unless dieting, cortisol should not be manipulated too much.

 

[DR.D]

Is 5AD still available?

No, it was banned, but it's a great immune booster, rad protectant and anti-cort.

 

[rhinochaser48]

How long will cortisol remain elevated post-cycle?

If it can be contained to a week or less, then it might actually have adavantages as far as training adaptations are concerned, and negative effects would be minimal....

Longer than a week and I would be concerned about it's negative effects.

An often overlooked aspect of the stress response is the enhancement of the cell-mediated immune system for a short period, (say 30 minutes or so). After that it will begin to drop back down to baseline, and if glucocorticoids remain elevated, they will continue to drop below baseline, (you already know this, but I'm just trying to get to my point).

During short periods of time, a 'suppressed' immune system isn't such a bad thing. Glucocorticoids are selective to which cells are being removed from circulation; they remove the oldest and least responsive first, in a way that 'skulps' the immune system to function as rapidly as possible. And not only that, but these older cells aren't just being trashed; they are being escorted to the front lines - to the site of inflamation.

I, myself, seem to be a strange case. I almost never experience any swelling of any type. I don't really experience symptoms of low test or elevated estrogen off cycle either, (which is usually the case with autoimmune disease). I think I might actually be a little corticoid deficient. MRI's and X-rays have revealed erosions of most joints in my body as well. They are all painful at times. I'm constantly yo-yoing between intestinal flare's as well. Short stints of prednisone have become my savior. And when used for 6 days at a time, I rarely even see water retention. The only effect I notice is sense of well being and increased hunger.

Maybe a better/healthier protocol would be to start the 7-OXO or DHEA a week after the beginning of PCT? Or do you have any other ideas for keeping things humming along at a normal/baseline level? There must be a way to balance cortisol nicely just like one would use an AI at a low dose to keep estrogen in a normal range.




Sorry to hijack the thread.

 

[DR.D]

How long will cortisol remain elevated post-cycle?...

Short stints of prednisone have become my savior. And when used for 6 days at a time, I rarely even see water retention. The only effect I notice is sense of well being and increased hunger...

Maybe a better/healthier protocol would be to start the 7-OXO or DHEA a week after the beginning of PCT? Or do you have any other ideas for keeping things humming along at a normal/baseline level? There must be a way to balance cortisol nicely just like one would use an AI at a low dose to keep estrogen in a normal range.

It can stay elevated 2 or 3 wks post cycle.

Pred is pretty clean. Very minimal mineral retention. You should give Triamcinolone a try too if you can. You might actually lose some water on that one, and the sense of well being is quite pronounced as well. Almost sedative.

You can use an anabolic with the Pred to correct for the nitrogen loss. Then you get the most of your corticoid therapy without the muscle loss. Here are some anti-catabolic conversions for some commonly available anabolics VS Prednisone:

10mg Anadrol corrects for 30mg Pred
25mg Dbol corrects for 60mg Pred
12mg Winstrol corrects 30mg Pred