Need Advice: Homemade Pre-workout Supp. for Cardio

[davesavvy]

Let me start by saying I want to limit my ingredients to 3-4, caffeine probably a must. My main goal is energy & endurance for cardio (playing full court basketball in my case) in the evenings. Not concerned with the "pump" that some look for when lifting.

After doing some searching on internet for ideas, here is what I came up with...

1. Caffeine powder
2. [SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]Citrulline Malate
3. [/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]Beta Alanine
4. BCAA[/SIZE][/SIZE]

Loved dmaa (Jack3d) in the past for basketball but really tuff getting to sleep (plus the ban thing). I tolerate caffeine much better in this regard.

Have I "nailed it" or something better for one or two on the list? (Remember, I really prefer limiting to 3-4 supps only.)

 

[pyrobatt]

Let me start by saying I want to limit my ingredients to 3-4, caffeine probably a must. My main goal is energy & endurance for cardio (playing full court basketball in my case) in the evenings. Not concerned with the "pump" that some look for when lifting.

After doing some searching on internet for ideas, here is what I came up with...

1. Caffeine powder
2. Citrulline Malate
3. Beta Alanine
4. BCAA

Loved dmaa (Jack3d) in the past for basketball but really tuff getting to sleep (plus the ban thing). I tolerate caffeine much better in this regard.

Have I "nailed it" or something better for one or two on the list? (Remember, I really prefer limiting to 3-4 supps only.)

Pass the bcaas and opt for COP. My personal endurance shot through the roof. My form of cardio is sledgehammer swings if you know how taxing that is. Added 1 minute the second week and 2 the third. Had to move up in hammer weight.

 

[davesavvy]

Pass the bcaas and opt for COP. My personal endurance shot through the roof. My form of cardio is sledgehammer swings if you know how taxing that is. Added 1 minute the second week and 2 the third. Had to move up in hammer weight.

Great suggestion. I like what I've read so far...plus it's cheap

Ref:

Creatinol-O-Phosphate
• Increases strength
• Acts as an intracellular buffer to help clear lactic acid and prevent hypoxia which can limit performance during training
• Improves performance by increasing anaerobic glycolysis
• Improves recovery

Despite the similar name, Creatinol O-Phosphate (COP) is not creatine. COP acts differently than creatine to improve performance, strength, and enhance recovery. In fact, it may actually be useful as an adjunct to enhance the ergogenic effects of creatine.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Your list is good minus the BCAAs as pyrobatt mentioned. If you want something to sip on between plays, go with an EAA + electrolyte product...BCAAs are more for a chug/plasma leucine spike.

COP is a great addition. Another good one is LCLT, which improves VO2 max. Taurine also has data showing it improves aerobic activity.

 

[ELROCK]

You seem pretty set on creating your own PWO which is cool and I also do it from time to time, but give Uncut a try. Uncut at 1 cap is great for playin ball.

 

[ELROCK]

Great suggestion. I like what I've read so far...plus it's cheap Ref: Creatinol-O-Phosphate • Increases strength • Acts as an intracellular buffer to help clear lactic acid and prevent hypoxia which can limit performance during training • Improves performance by increasing anaerobic glycolysis • Improves recovery Despite the similar name, Creatinol O-Phosphate (COP) is not creatine. COP acts differently than creatine to improve performance, strength, and enhance recovery. In fact, it may actually be useful as an adjunct to enhance the ergogenic effects of creatine.

I'm also gonna have to give this a try. It seems like a nice addition to any pre-workout supp.

 

[alwaysfirst]

It seams like some people don't like it but I like green tea for cardio. ALCAR have been a good add for me also. MC and BA have never really made a big difference for me but a lot of people like it.

 

[davesavvy]

Great feedback so far! LCLT is interesting as well. I like the hormanl impact too, i.e. andrgen receptor activity, increased IGFBP-3 , etc
Ref:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/betancourt-nutrition/l-carnitine-l-tartrate.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12930169

Revised list:
1. Caffeine powder
2. Citrulline Malate
3. Beta Alanine
4. Creatinol-O-Phosphate (COP)

Other Options:
1. L-Carnitine-L-Tartrate (LCLT)
2. Taurine

 

[davesavvy]

So I finally tried this mix without caffeine though:
- Citrulline Malate
- Beta Alanine
- Creatinol-O-Phosphate (COP)
- Taurine

Very disappointed. Felt no difference in energy or endurance during 1.5 hr of basketball. Maybe the caffeine IS A MUST? I skipped the caffeine intentionally to see what this stim free mix would be like, now I know.

Also, I used Primaforce for all except Taurine. Something did not dissolve well. Looked like a mini snow storm in the glass.

 

[mr.cooper69]

So I finally tried this mix without caffeine though:
- Citrulline Malate
- Beta Alanine
- Creatinol-O-Phosphate (COP)
- Taurine

Very disappointed. Felt no difference in energy or endurance during 1.5 hr of basketball. Maybe the caffeine IS A MUST? I skipped the caffeine intentionally to see what this stim free mix would be like, now I know.

Also, I used Primaforce for all except Taurine. Something did not dissolve well. Looked like a mini snow storm in the glass.

None of these produce energy in that sense. your expectations are way off

 

[Driven2lift]

So I finally tried this mix without caffeine though:
- Citrulline Malate
- Beta Alanine
- Creatinol-O-Phosphate (COP)
- Taurine

Very disappointed. Felt no difference in energy or endurance during 1.5 hr of basketball. Maybe the caffeine IS A MUST? I skipped the caffeine intentionally to see what this stim free mix would be like, now I know.

Also, I used Primaforce for all except Taurine. Something did not dissolve well. Looked like a mini snow storm in the glass.

You are using mostly endurance and lactic acid buffering agents here, if you are looking for energy you will need the caffeine.
The effects youre after would be better achieved using a stim and possibly a carnitine source as well. Caffeine + ALCAR gives me an energized and focused feeling.
For physical endurance keep the COP and BA if it was me

 

[AndroRage]

You are using mostly endurance and lactic acid buffering agents here, if you are looking for energy you will need the caffeine.
The effects youre after would be better achieved using a stim and possibly a carnitine source as well. Caffeine + ALCAR gives me an energized and focused feeling.
For physical endurance keep the COP and BA if it was me

What dosages do you run the ALCAR & caffeine for energy?

 

[AndroRage]

Pass the bcaas and opt for COP. My personal endurance shot through the roof. My form of cardio is sledgehammer swings if you know how taxing that is. Added 1 minute the second week and 2 the third. Had to move up in hammer weight.

How much COP were you using? Was it just pre-workout or spread throughout the day? Thanks

 

[burpees]

GMS
Potassium Nitrate
TMG
Creatine Mono

 

[Driven2lift]

What dosages do you run the ALCAR & caffeine for energy?

200+ mg caffeine depending on tolerance
1-2 g ALCAR (very cheap in bulk powder, 250 g for $20)

 

[pyrobatt]

How much COP were you using? Was it just pre-workout or spread throughout the day? Thanks

2 to 4 g. I truely do believe that there may be a better effect at 4g for me personally. Tryed 8 caps peak beta+ and 4 caps peak beta and 4 caps sns cop and get the same effect. I don't know for sure. The regular dose is 2g every day. Not just on workout days.

 

[SwolenONE]

Pass the bcaas and opt for COP. My personal endurance shot through the roof. My form of cardio is sledgehammer swings if you know how taxing that is. Added 1 minute the second week and 2 the third. Had to move up in hammer weight.

This, COP kicks ass for high rep training and for cardio.

I never train without Peak Beta+ anymore, this stuff made me a true believer in the benefits of COP.

 

[drewsicle3210]

For my Pre-workouts, Gameday is perfect for cardio/endurance training, and especially sports performance.

If you want to break it down and consume only 4 ingredients, then I think these are good:
1. Caffeine
2. COP
3. Beta Alanine
4. L-Citrulline

 

[warbird01]

I recommend COP as well, good stuff.

 

[uubiduu]

This, COP kicks ass for high rep training and for cardio.

I never train without Peak Beta+ anymore, this stuff made me a true believer in the benefits of COP.

I thought COP has also benefits for lower rep ranges?

 

[pyrobatt]

I thought COP has also benefits for lower rep ranges?

Yes,aswell as high.

 

[Jiigzz]

What dosages do you run the ALCAR & caffeine for energy?

Use 1-2g ALCAR with 100mg+ of Caffeine (assess tolerance for caffeine as its highly individualised). I would also suggest looking into huperzine a which works as a acetylcholinesterase inhibitor (which then causes an increase in acetylcholine levels) and acts synergystically with ALCAR.

 

[AndroRage]

Use 1-2g ALCAR with 100mg+ of Caffeine (assess tolerance for caffeine as its highly individualised). I would also suggest looking into huperzine a which works as a acetylcholinesterase inhibitor (which then causes an increase in acetylcholine levels) and acts synergystically with ALCAR.

Thanks, informative post. Hyperzine seems interesting, I've read it improves cognition and memory I think. Does it have a direct effect on performance or cellular energy? Dosage? I can get SNS products pretty cheap and they are a brand a would like to buy from in terms of they seems trustworthy and legit. I guna read up on acetylcholine and its benefits again.

 

[Jiigzz]

Thanks, informative post. Hyperzine seems interesting, I've read it improves cognition and memory I think. Does it have a direct effect on performance or cellular energy? Dosage? I can get SNS products pretty cheap and they are a brand a would like to buy from in terms of they seems trustworthy and legit. I guna read up on acetylcholine and its benefits again.

Yeah well it inhibits the enzyme that degrades acetylcholine and thus allows it to increase which will help with memory.

As ALCAR increases acetylcholine levels even further, preventing the degradation makes for a perfect combo. It definitely should be cycled though.

As far as energy, it won't have any stim-like effects but may increase mental clarity which may have the 'feel awake' kind of effect.

I'll look into the dose (on phone); i get my alcar, choline and huperzine from focus XT

EDIT: Huperzine is dosed between 50mcg and 200mcg. We have Huperzine in 100mcg capsules. While my opinion may not mean much as I rep for SNS; they are a company known for high quality products which is the reason I am glad to represent such a reputable company.

 

[drewsicle3210]

Acetyle L Carnitine

I take a supp from Walmart (don't even say it) that has 200mg ALpha Lipoic Acid and 400mg ALC per serving. I have been taking this daily.

Any thoughts on this supp? Not very expensive at all, about $7 a month.

 

[Driven2lift]

Acetyle L Carnitine

I take a supp from Walmart (don't even say it) that has 200mg ALpha Lipoic Acid and 400mg ALC per serving. I have been taking this daily.

Any thoughts on this supp? Not very expensive at all, about $7 a month.

I remember reading quite a few times around here that ALA and ALCAR doses should be separated, or at least one in pill/one in powder form if taken together.

 

[drewsicle3210]

I remember reading quite a few times around here that ALA and ALCAR doses should be separated, or at least one in pill/one in powder form if taken together.

Any links, or reasons why?
I would be interested in learning more about that theory.

 

[Driven2lift]

Any links, or reasons why?
I would be interested in learning more about that theory.

Cant find any links, difficult as I am mobile. Google seems to say I am incorrect in this so maybe I was thinking of something else? Someone will chime in and say I'm wrong

 

[bolt10]

ALCAR and ALA will polymerize in water if you try to mix the two together. They are find to take together otherwise.

 

[drewsicle3210]

ALCAR and ALA will polymerize in water if you try to mix the two together. They are find to take together otherwise.

So paired in capsule form is ok?
The stomach acid won't cause the polymerization?

 

[bolt10]

So paired in capsule form is ok?
The stomach acid won't cause the polymerization?

Ya that should be fine.

 

[Geoforce]

Any day at Nutraplanet you should be able to find CardioTryx and you won't have to build anything

Cordygen Nan02 is the best endurance booster I've used. Only potential problem is it is a little pricey right now.

 

[axan]

some great ideas for stacks here

 

[SwolenONE]

Any day at Nutraplanet you should be able to find CardioTryx and you won't have to build anything

Cordygen Nan02 is the best endurance booster I've used. Only potential problem is it is a little pricey right now.

Really looking forward to CardioTryx

I've had good results with the Cordygen line, MST has a great line. Cordygen Ultra was my go to before Peak Beta+ came along.