I hear ya. Dude I've taken everything injectable and designer. Trenavar shut me down hard and the lethargy was horrible. Tren ace was a breeze for me in comparison to trenavar. Ment is one of the few ph/ds I have taken that doesn't make me lethargic and I actually feel good. And I've taken stano, trenavar, Hdrol, mechabol,fura, stanozol, 1t tren, trenadrol. Damn near everything.