Primordial Performance raided by FDA

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    But now he has no products at all

    It was a risk he took I suppose
    Patrick, you've been around this game longer than anyone. How is it that SD survived all these years only garnering enough attention for a steadfast ban until recently? "Tren" was banned back in January 2010 long before SD and Halodrol still remains on the market.

    What the hell drives the enforcement efforts of the FDA?


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Freepress View Post
    What the hell drives the enforcement efforts of the FDA?
    Whim, budget, political expediency
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  3. It's what happens when you give $hit tons of power to executive-level bureaucracies. There's a lot of unchecked power at the FDA.
    •   
       


  4. Quote Originally Posted by Freepress View Post
    Patrick, you've been around this game longer than anyone. How is it that SD survived all these years only garnering enough attention for a steadfast ban until recently? "Tren" was banned back in January 2010 long before SD and Halodrol still remains on the market.

    What the hell drives the enforcement efforts of the FDA?
    popularity.

    SD only got popular on a national level much later than most think.

    Tren products on the other hand got popular FAST.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Freepress View Post
    Patrick, you've been around this game longer than anyone. How is it that SD survived all these years only garnering enough attention for a steadfast ban until recently? "Tren" was banned back in January 2010 long before SD and Halodrol still remains on the market.

    What the hell drives the enforcement efforts of the FDA?

    It does seem sort of arbitrary i know. I think they went after Tren because of the promotional crap and because it made news. Other things arent promoted so blatantly and so dont garner as much urgency. Surely they would like to go after everything, but since the FDA has limited resources they have to play steroid "whack a mole"

    6-oxo is a good example. It should never have been messed with. But it got in the way of baseball at a time when baseball had had enough of steroid type scandals. And as a result, it garnered lots of wrath
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  6. Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    popularity.

    SD only got popular on a national level much later than most think.

    Tren products on the other hand got popular FAST.
    Hey Vaughn, good to see you again. Hope my log over at PP sold you lots of Intimidate

    Didn't SD have the attention of the feds once before? And I seem to recall CEL getting sued by a couple of people claiming hepatic damage. There were quite a few cases out there. I'm just shocked beyond words it has taken them that long to levy action against it.

    from Patrick Arnold

    It does seem sort of arbitrary i know. I think they went after Tren because of the promotional crap and because it made news. Other things arent promoted so blatantly and so dont garner as much urgency. Surely they would like to go after everything, but since the FDA has limited resources they have to play steroid "whack a mole"


    I came into the PH game right about the time Tren was on the way out, so I missed a lot of the news on it. I wasn't aware it had garnered so much attention so quickly. But if it had, that makes sense.

    I just wonder what's in store for DHEA isomers. The anti-aging lobby is very strong in favor of 5-DHEA, but how safe are the other variants and how safe is epiandrosterone?

    Pretty soon they're going to push us all to the dark side.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    It does seem sort of arbitrary i know. I think they went after Tren because of the promotional crap and because it made news. Other things arent promoted so blatantly and so dont garner as much urgency. Surely they would like to go after everything, but since the FDA has limited resources they have to play steroid "whack a mole"

    6-oxo is a good example. It should never have been messed with. But it got in the way of baseball at a time when baseball had had enough of steroid type scandals. And as a result, it garnered lots of wrath
    SD is the only compound (I am aware of) that has news coverage of users being hospitalized. I think it came up in one of the wrist slappers earlier in this thread, but it might have been another. I don't want to see SD go, not that I use it (never have, no interest), but it bewilders me how it lasted as long as it did.
    Just inject.
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  8. Quote Originally Posted by Freepress View Post
    Pretty soon they're going to push us all to the dark side.
    Which is probably the direction more will take. If you risk a felony for a PH, why not buy the injectable active with a significantly higher bio-availability?
    Just inject.
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy

    Which is probably the direction more will take. If you risk a felony for a PH, why not buy the injectable active with a significantly higher bio-availability?
    Seems more and more like the legal route IS the dark side!!!

  10. Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    Which is probably the direction more will take. If you risk a felony for a PH, why not buy the injectable active with a significantly higher bio-availability?
    Why take massive doses of often-toxic pro-steroids when you can get the real thing and it's cleaner, purer and works? Legality is the only reason I can think of.

    I've had some time to read a lot of Rick Collins' writings on steroids and stories about the government's push to make the Schedule IIIs. There was a LOT of opposition to that from both the medical lobby and law enforcement. There's some interesting stuff about the congressional testimony that surrounded it.

    I can't imagine why it makes sense to treat a naturally-occurring male hormone the same way you'd treat cocaine, but that's the knee-jerk reaction of a half-informed/misinformed legislative body responding to political outcry.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Freepress View Post
    Hey Vaughn, good to see you again. Hope my log over at PP sold you lots of Intimidate

    Didn't SD have the attention of the feds once before? And I seem to recall CEL getting sued by a couple of people claiming hepatic damage. There were quite a few cases out there. I'm just shocked beyond words it has taken them that long to levy action against it. .

    FDA has gone after many companies that sold superdrol in the last five years. You just havent heard about it so much
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Freepress View Post
    Why take massive doses of often-toxic pro-steroids when you can get the real thing and it's cleaner, purer and works? Legality is the only reason I can think of.

    I've had some time to read a lot of Rick Collins' writings on steroids and stories about the government's push to make the Schedule IIIs. There was a LOT of opposition to that from both the medical lobby and law enforcement. There's some interesting stuff about the congressional testimony that surrounded it.

    I can't imagine why it makes sense to treat a naturally-occurring male hormone the same way you'd treat cocaine, but that's the knee-jerk reaction of a half-informed/misinformed legislative body responding to political outcry.
    thats the american way, brother! haha when have you known congress to be a group of rational human beings with the true welfare of the country and it's people at heart?
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  13. Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    SD is the only compound (I am aware of) that has news coverage of users being hospitalized. I think it came up in one of the wrist slappers earlier in this thread, but it might have been another. I don't want to see SD go, not that I use it (never have, no interest), but it bewilders me how it lasted as long as it did.
    you dont remember the Havoc ****? where the kid took like, 5 months straight of havoc and then ended up needing a liver transplant?

    that was one of the first big stories i remember seeing way back when
    iForce Nutrition Online Representative Manager
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  14. Quote Originally Posted by baldwanus View Post
    you dont remember the Havoc ****? where the kid took like, 5 months straight of havoc and then ended up needing a liver transplant?

    that was one of the first big stories i remember seeing way back when

    Methyl 1 test was the first methylated steroid sold as a supp and preceded the others by 2 years or more. It may have been the worst of the lot but I dont recall hearing any liver horror stories from it. I imagine there may have been a few incidents, but they just werent publicized. Especially given the fact that people were selling it like it was candy
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  15. Quote Originally Posted by baldwanus View Post
    you dont remember the Havoc ****? where the kid took like, 5 months straight of havoc and then ended up needing a liver transplant?

    that was one of the first big stories i remember seeing way back when
    I never heard of the Havoc stories, but methylepistanolol is still being sold like crazy.

    I do remember reading a thread once once BBing.com years ago where some idiot kid took it long term and did not do a PCT and was badly shut down and required going to an endo for therapy.

    I do not doubt the validity of your story, for the record.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Big3upgrade View Post
    lolololololol, I can't help but to not feel sorry for this company. Eric, this is what happened when you continuously lie and bs about your products. I knew this would happened when that andro series garbage came out, I truly feel sorry for all the individuals who you have ripped off thinking it would be even comparable to test. Also, karma is a bitch, funny how you had all your little reps going around spewing garbage about other companies, writing fake reviews, spamming all the boards with your junk, and pushing mediocre and over-priced junk onto people's throat. I still remember some of your garbage reps claiming pct was not needed for tren and sd, and to use the PP's TRS for pct. Also, there was this fat and overweight rep that looked like he never touched a single weight in his life, this dude was talking about doing running andro lean to get cut, lol. What a joke.
    you must be referring to a different andro company.....
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  17. Quote Originally Posted by baldwanus View Post
    you dont remember the Havoc ****? where the kid took like, 5 months straight of havoc and then ended up needing a liver transplant?

    that was one of the first big stories i remember seeing way back when

    I actually don't recall that, but I believe you, that is why I said that I am aware of. but case and point with it being on the market still.
    Just inject.
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  18. Quote Originally Posted by Freepress View Post
    I never heard of the Havoc stories, but methylepistanolol is still being sold like crazy.

    I do remember reading a thread once once BBing.com years ago where some idiot kid took it long term and did not do a PCT and was badly shut down and required going to an endo for therapy.

    I do not doubt the validity of your story, for the record.
    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    I actually don't recall that, but I believe you, that is why I said that I am aware of. but case and point with it being on the market still.
    http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/0...s_Man_Says.htm
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  19. Quote Originally Posted by Freepress View Post
    Hey Vaughn, good to see you again. Hope my log over at PP sold you lots of Intimidate

    Didn't SD have the attention of the feds once before? And I seem to recall CEL getting sued by a couple of people claiming hepatic damage. There were quite a few cases out there. I'm just shocked beyond words it has taken them that long to levy action against it.



    I came into the PH game right about the time Tren was on the way out, so I missed a lot of the news on it. I wasn't aware it had garnered so much attention so quickly. But if it had, that makes sense.

    I just wonder what's in store for DHEA isomers. The anti-aging lobby is very strong in favor of 5-DHEA, but how safe are the other variants and how safe is epiandrosterone?

    Pretty soon they're going to push us all to the dark side.
    This is what I'm also curious about. Does the FDA actually recognize the DHEA isomers as being safe dietary supplements, or have they simply been flying under the radar, so to speak (like SD seemingly did for years)? In regards to safety, I wonder if the conversion rates of 1-DHEA, 4-DHEA, and 19-nor-DHEA to their respective target hormones are low enough to not cause any serious short/long-term side effects in users while still being mildly effective enough to illicit gains.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue

    popularity.

    SD only got popular on a national level much later than most think.

    Tren products on the other hand got popular FAST.
    I guess people notice a black Lambo driving around with "GOT TREN?" airbrushed on its hood..
    Ha

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  21. Quote Originally Posted by mw1 View Post
    I guess people notice a black Lambo driving around with "GOT TREN?" airbrushed on its hood..
    Ha
    what? naw brah, this could never attract attention...

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  22. Quote Originally Posted by baldwanus View Post
    you dont remember the Havoc ****? where the kid took like, 5 months straight of havoc and then ended up needing a liver transplant?

    that was one of the first big stories i remember seeing way back when
    and this is why we have the googles

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    what did he say?
    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel0022 View Post
    Interested as well
    Posted above; hmm maybe DHEA was one of the reasons. I didnt remeber reading that the first time through. Thought they were targetted purely for what they dealt with previously and the marketing scheme.

  24. if FDA came to PP, why havent they gone to androfactory?
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  25. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Posted above; hmm maybe DHEA was one of the reasons. I didnt remeber reading that the first time through. Thought they were targetted purely for what they dealt with previously and the marketing scheme.
    Yeah, it sounds like the FDA isn't convinced that the DHEA isomers aren't "naturally occurring." Hopefully someone can prove, in fact, that they are...

  26. Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    if FDA came to PP, why havent they gone to androfactory?
    My guess is that they are flying under the radar. It also costs alot of money to investigate and prepare legal teams, something that the FDA has to consider before launching an investigation. Just my thoughts though

  27. Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    if FDA came to PP, why havent they gone to androfactory?
    Because Primordial, love them though I do, was hot dogging it. Eric's bold and blunt marketing claims attracted a lot of attention. I don't wish to disparage him, but he has been making medically-oriented claims or claims that straddle the borderline of supplements/drugs for a long time. It was only a matter of time before they sought him out and made an example of him.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by Freepress

    Because Primordial, love them though I do, was hot dogging it. Eric's bold and blunt marketing claims attracted a lot of attention. I don't wish to disparage him, but he has been making medically-oriented claims or claims that straddle the borderline of supplements/drugs for a long time. It was only a matter of time before they sought him out and made an example of him.
    I agree
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  29. Quote Originally Posted by Freepress

    Because Primordial, love them though I do, was hot dogging it. Eric's bold and blunt marketing claims attracted a lot of attention. I don't wish to disparage him, but he has been making medically-oriented claims or claims that straddle the borderline of supplements/drugs for a long time. It was only a matter of time before they sought him out and made an example of him.
    When you market your products as safe steroids, add long acting esters to mimmic what pharmaceutical companies are selling, that's going to attract attention for sure.

    It'll be interesting to see how this turns out.
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  30. Quote Originally Posted by Freepress View Post
    Because Primordial, love them though I do, was hot dogging it. Eric's bold and blunt marketing claims attracted a lot of attention. I don't wish to disparage him, but he has been making medically-oriented claims or claims that straddle the borderline of supplements/drugs for a long time. It was only a matter of time before they sought him out and made an example of him.
    I could go around to many different companies currently offering prohormones, and show you ad copy comparing the effects to AAS as well. First off hand would be Halo For Her "Comparable to Oxandrolone/Anavar"
    Just inject.
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  31. Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    When you market your products as safe steroids, add long acting esters to mimmic what pharmaceutical companies are selling, that's going to attract attention for sure.

    It'll be interesting to see how this turns out.
    The esters were not to mimic pharma-compounds. The intended effect of the ester usage was completely different than what is achieved by phama with an ester attached to an injected compound. The only comparison in terms of effect would be Andriol, which I am not sure if it is even on the market anymore (but it could be).
    Just inject.
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  32. Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy

    The esters were not to mimic pharma-compounds. The intended effect of the ester usage was completely different than what is achieved by phama with an ester attached to an injected compound. The only comparison in terms of effect would be Andriol, which I am not sure if it is even on the market anymore (but it could be).
    Andriol is, and is used.
    I'm just saying from a pharma point of view, it may cut into their business, or they may want it for themselves.
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  33. Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    I could go around to many different companies currently offering prohormones, and show you ad copy comparing the effects to AAS as well. First off hand would be Halo For Her "Comparable to Oxandrolone/Anavar"
    I agree, but only partially. I'm not putting Eric down or attacking him, but his marketing was way beyond any other company's marketing in brutal honesty, truth and comparison to illegal anabolic steroids. He not only said "comparable to" x, y, or z, but he provided calculations of exactly how it compared, used language like "safe steroids" and even suggested it might compete with TRT.

    I respect your zeal to defend the company. I'm as heartbroken as anyone is about it and salty at the government for what they did, but his marketing was clearly too targeted and specific. You can't do that in this game and get away with it long term.

  34. Quote Originally Posted by Freepress View Post
    I agree, but only partially. I'm not putting Eric down or attacking him, but his marketing was way beyond any other company's marketing in brutal honesty, truth and comparison to illegal anabolic steroids. He not only said "comparable to" x, y, or z, but he provided calculations of exactly how it compared, used language like "safe steroids" and even suggested it might compete with TRT.

    I respect your zeal to defend the company. I'm as heartbroken as anyone is about it and salty at the government for what they did, but his marketing was clearly too targeted and specific. You can't do that in this game and get away with it long term.
    Oh I am not playing defense, I have stated before that I wasn't exactly the biggest fan of the marketing. I am just saying it is far from the shock value people make it out to be. Earlier I presented the example of "Legal Safe Steroids" with a picture of a doctor in a lab coat, in ads that have been in every muscle mag since '95.

    Personally, if I were selling prohormones, I wouldn't label them ****. The only thing the label would say is:

    H2S Company presents: HaloPower
    Disclaimer: This powder may work as an experimental paint thinner, and is in no way a dietary supplement. It is compressed into pills simply for shipping and should be broken up before applying to paint.

    Maybe on the back I would have a picture of Novitzky injecting tren.
    Just inject.
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  35. Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    Oh I am not playing defense, I have stated before that I wasn't exactly the biggest fan of the marketing. I am just saying it is far from the shock value people make it out to be. Earlier I presented the example of "Legal Safe Steroids" with a picture of a doctor in a lab coat, in ads that have been in every muscle mag since '95.
    Tell that to the FDA

  36. Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    Oh I am not playing defense, I have stated before that I wasn't exactly the biggest fan of the marketing. I am just saying it is far from the shock value people make it out to be. Earlier I presented the example of "Legal Safe Steroids" with a picture of a doctor in a lab coat, in ads that have been in every muscle mag since '95.

    Personally, if I were selling prohormones, I wouldn't label them ****. The only thing the label would say is:

    H2S Company presents: HaloPower
    Disclaimer: This powder may work as an experimental paint thinner, and is in no way a dietary supplement. It is compressed into pills simply for shipping and should be broken up before applying to paint.

    Maybe on the back I would have a picture of Novitzky injecting tren.
    I would err... use that paint thinner for cleaning my brush...
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice

  37. Unfortunately this thread has gotten derailed again. I guess i will get it back to the important subject:
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  38. and we can forget this:Name:  zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 036.jpg
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  39. haha mw1. You crack me up.

    @DangerDave -- haha! I was thinking something along those lines too.
    I'm Back...

  40. I like creatine.
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