Primordial Performance raided by FDA

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by bdcc

    Wow.

    Paging Celorza to the thread. He is going to be one happy camper.
    Omg nicely played....
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  2. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69
    Nothing unique eh? I have bookmarked this thread so I can bump it in 8 months
    Hhahaha boom!
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  3. I have a question. Did the FDA raid PP because it is their opinion that the DHEA isomers sold by companies like PP are illegal to sell, or do they recognize those substances as being legal dietary supplements and they suspect that PP was engaged in something illicit (I.e., essentially taking the position of, "We don't mind if they sell DHEA isomers, but we suspect that those products are just a front for selling illegal steroids")?
    •   
       


  4. Quote Originally Posted by SpicedCider View Post
    I have a question. Did the FDA raid PP because it is their opinion that the DHEA isomers sold by companies like PP are illegal to sell, or do they recognize those substances as being legal dietary supplements and they suspect that PP was engaged in something illicit (I.e., essentially taking the position of, "We don't mind if they sell DHEA isomers, but we suspect that those products are just a front for selling illegal steroids")?
    I'm not sure that modifications to a DSHEA compound result in a DSHEA compound. Like if I put a methyl group on the alpha carbon of PEA (just kidding!)
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I'm not sure that modifications to a DSHEA compound result in a DSHEA compound. Like if I put a methyl group on the alpha carbon of PEA (just kidding!)
    LOL. That's primarily what I'm curious about -- are DHEA isomers such as 1-DHEA still legal in the same sense that DHEA is legal, or are they now illegal substances? As far as I know, the FDA hasn't announced taking a stance on the issue either way...

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    if represent a substance as being a controlled substance and get caught u get charged with selling a controlled substance. and they calculate your penalty on a weight basis of what you sold. irregardless of whether it was 100 percent cocaine or 100 percent talcum powder
    "Irregardless" really, pat?

  7. Quote Originally Posted by SpicedCider

    LOL. That's primarily what I'm curious about -- are DHEA isomers such as 1-DHEA still legal in the same sense that DHEA is legal, or are they now illegal substances? As far as I know, the FDA hasn't announced taking a stance on the issue either way...
    1-dhea, 4-dhea, 19nor dhea are all dshea compliant, and natural, it's the ester that was attached and added on that isn't found naturally, and could be a liability...possibly?

  8. Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    1-dhea, 4-dhea, 19nor dhea are all dshea compliant, and natural, it's the ester that was attached and added on that isn't found naturally, and could be a liability...possibly?
    Pat had presented on one of the boards (as you can imagine I am between so many, I can't remember where I have read anything over past 2 days) that the ester would be a fairly weak argument, given how an ester is not a permanent modification to the compound in the body, contrasted directly by the addition of a methyl group, which is.
    Just inject.
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

    jeff novitizky is not out for big pharm

    he is out for usada'

    u peeps are dumb
    Ummm lol I was responding to pony steaks post. I know this has nothing to do with big pharma

  10. I hope primordial can fight this you did say you was ready If the FDA came if you can fight it and think you should win then do so ??? I'm sure people would donate and other companies if you think you could win ..

    Just image this primordial takes on the FDA and wins well won't the FDA look the fool and maybe think twice bout taking supplements I mean if primordial win the case you can then sue them.

    If you do decide to take them on ill donate .

    If not I hope you can carry on with a new natural line you already have great products like tcf1 and I'm sure with your unique delivery methods you could make natural products so much better.

    Please survive this primordial one way or another

  11. AndroFactory was not related to PP...

    Simply an ex worker extracting info and producing a knock off product.

    I am sure Pat got intentionally tagged on FB as the ex-worker knew Eric and I spoke highly of

    him in our industry. They might even have a decent product if the backing/support is there.

    I have nothing against them, just think their online presence is pretty terrible.

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  12. Quote Originally Posted by daft205 View Post
    "Irregardless" really, pat?
    Whats up with everyone attacking the word "irregardless" today...

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz

    Whats up with everyone attacking the word "irregardless" today...
    Probably because its not really a word. Its like the "ain't" of intellectual vocabulary lol

    I'm far from perfect and I know at the end of the day PA is way smarter than me so I wasn't going to be the one to point it out
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  14. Truely a loss. An inovative company brought a different approach from transdermals to oral suspension and many others even offered consulatation (for a price). Sustain Alpha topical was a fav. going to be missed.

  15. I think it's a fairly safe bet that PP's aggressive, to the point marketing of these products as "androgens" and "steroids" is what attracted the attention of the feds. It is commendable that they were honest and above board about everything in their products and presented research-based explanations of conversion, absorption, the carrier composition and equivalencies to actual testosterone, but in the end, I'm sure it burned them.

    DSHEA compliance is open to interpretation. Making claims about the purported pharmacological effects of what is supposed to be a dietary supplement has gotten more than a few companies in trouble.

    But there is a lesson to be learned through all of this for anyone else in this game. Better play it safe and watch the marketing claims or you will have armed bureaucrats kicking your door in and confiscating your inventory. And always keep an attorney on retainer.

    My heart is heavy for Eric, Jered, Matt, Winslow, HTS and the others. I cannot express how truly devastated I am over this. You guys have become friends through my time as a PP forum participant and our ability to share invaluable advice back and forth has been a tremendous benefit to so many people. There will be an empty place in my heart for sure.

    Godspeed, Eric and others. Onward and upward to the next great achievement!

  16. Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter View Post
    AndroFactory was not related to PP...

    Simply an ex worker extracting info and producing a knock off product.



    -Matt
    In another thread they're saying Venus and Eric were in a ''relationship'' and were co-owners of PP until their breakup.

  17. Wow, what a blatant abuse of power, absolutely sickening. Surely there's a fitness junkie lawyer out there who's willing to do some pro-bono work, with how dirty this whole situation sounds I wouldn't be surprised if they had abused the legal process somewhere along the way.

  18. androfactory will never get my support no matter who runs it. knock off from PP and under dosed
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  19. People are trying to guess why the Feds did this raid - there's no need to guess.

    This is the modus operandi of the U.S. government when it wants to send messages and put people out of business.

    It happened also with Gibson Guitars - who got raided by the Feds and a bunch of their inventory seized over bull**** claims they were using illegally obtained rare woods in their fretboards. Long story short, there were no grounds for the raid but the Feds knew that Gibson would have to spend a lot of time and money fighting to get their stuff back and fighting the bull**** fines. I think Gibson, which is a lot bigger company than PP is - ended up settling out of court. So the Feds essentially extorted money out of Gibson.

    Same with PP, they were looking for a target within this industry and they picked PP for a raid. Matters not if PP is guilty of what they're saying or not - the effect they wanted was for PP to go down OR pay a ****-ton of money to them and now ... mission accomplished.

    That's the plain and simple of it folks. You can guess all you want about "transdermals" and "cosmetics vs supplements" or whether or not they got targeted for their bold advertising.

    The reason they were targeted is because they were successful and the Feds wanted to send a message to everyone out here that THEY ARE THE BOSSES in this brave new little fascist world we live in.

    EDIT: Just one more thing. Some have mentioned that you can sue for damages and wrongful prosecution or whatever. I don't know if you can or not. What I DO know - is the **** birds in the Federal Government don't give a good gawddamn about "fines" because ...

    WE ARE THE ONES WHO PAY THESE FINES WITH OUR TAX DOLLARS - and not the **** heads who executed the raid.

  20. wow....just got an email that PP is going out of business because of this.....

  21. Got the email within 5 minutes of being out . Never tried their products because I figured they would always be out and would keep updating them. Sad day for PP.

  22. Damn dude this sucks ass! The only reason I didn't buy because it was so pricey but I guess that **** would have paid off!

  23. They will bounce.back like SNS did
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by runner_79 View Post
    They will bounce.back like SNS did
    Ehh, I'll hold my breath.
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  25. Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    Pat had presented on one of the boards (as you can imagine I am between so many, I can't remember where I have read anything over past 2 days) that the ester would be a fairly weak argument, given how an ester is not a permanent modification to the compound in the body, contrasted directly by the addition of a methyl group, which is.
    i see

  26. Quote Originally Posted by runner_79 View Post
    They will bounce.back like SNS did
    nothing happened to sns. but im sure eric isn't calling it quits, prob just cutting out primordial performance to make something that may end up being bigger and better.

  27. i bet PP is done. they revolved there company around pro hormones and OTC PCT supplements. they claimed they didnt get much profit off of the products like MAP, iBCAA, creapure...etc my guess is they are done. they dont have enough money to fight the case either
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  28. Didn't the boss of SNS get done for possession of steroids?
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    Crossfit - DEMIGOD -

  29. Didn't the boss of SNS get done for possession of steroids?
    ...:::Olympus Labs Rep:::...
    Crossfit - DEMIGOD -

  30. Maybe there will be another company pop up after this.. a little renaming goes a long way.
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  31. In b4 "Authentic Execution" pops up out of nowhere.
    I am copyrighting that HTS.

  32. Quote Originally Posted by runner_79
    Didn't the boss of SNS get done for possession of steroids?
    No, possession of a controlled substance was not a charge.

    Please do not spread misinformation about this topic.
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  33. Quote Originally Posted by runner_79
    Didn't the boss of SNS get done for possession of steroids?
    The FDA was not involved in CEL raid. It was local / state police and the charges were dropped

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  34. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
    Spaniard's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by antihero

    No, possession of a controlled substance was not a charge.

    Please do not spread misinformation about this topic.
    You didn't see the question mark? He wasn't spreading, he was *asking*...

    - Valdez

  35. This sucks, regardless of any personal opinions on PP. You guys will be missed!

  36. Quote Originally Posted by runner_79 View Post
    Didn't the boss of SNS get done for possession of steroids?
    That's not how it was...and please take a minute to search, read and think before posting stuff like this that is neither accurate nor true.
    >SNS-Glycophase<
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  37. This thread is for information about PP fellas, not arguing!
    I have the power to delete it...

  38. Quote Originally Posted by Celorza

    That's not how it was...and please take a minute to search, read and think before posting stuff like this that is neither accurate nor true.
    It was a question and nothing more. Now he knows the answer was no. No need for people to flame him. This forum has always been a great forum people helping and not just saying search. Lets keep it that way
  

  
 

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