Primordial Performance raided by FDA

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  1. Best of luck HereToStudy. A great person in all respects, stay with us!


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Patuba View Post
    It doesn't matter if it is legal or not. They will raid, take the product then change the law to make them illegal and then charge them. Innocent till proven guilty and something having to be illegal before getting arrested no longer exists.
    They can't do that
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
    •   
       


  3. I always thought it was guilty til proven innocent.
    Hence the initial raid.
    Use code "fl3x10" to get a free shirt with your purchase at Mind and Muscle

  4. This makes me sad. I just recently discovered PP and fell in love with them. I was just about to order a supply of dermatherm. Might as well order a shirt so I can keep the memory of this great company alive.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Best of luck HereToStudy. A great person in all respects, stay with us!
    I appreciate the kind words, and will still be around.
    Just inject.
    Facebook:
    www.facebook.com/heretostudy

  6. What is among the most disconcerting things about this, for me, is that I specifically remember Eric, upon launch of the AndroSeries, boldly declaring, "We'll have our position papers ready" and fight them head on. I'm partially paraphrasing, but I thought that with the introduction of the AndroSeries came a fervor for defending its DSHEA compliance.

    I realize this is no easy feat. You're dealing with runaway, bureaucratic, executive-level agencies that "enforce policy," as opposed to following laws. Policy can be stretched beyond the scope of the Constitution and the guarantees of due process.

    I am intrigued by Patrick Arnold's statement that, "They can't do that." I'd love to hear more about why they can't as this whole thing is intriguing to me, but still not unexpected.

    I hypothesized that it was the blatant, honest marketing of the products that got them into a pickle. Liberal use of the word "steroids," comparison to injectable testosterone and equivalency calculations and claims that were far too specific likely exacerbated this action. I'm not so sure someone didn't rat on them, either.

    The absence of a cease and desist letter is troubling to me as well. Though I am no attorney, this whole process seems to have run afoul of FDA's standard practices.

    What a mess. It truly sinks my heart to think about.

  7. Prescription drug companies are some of the biggest lobbyists in Washington, this is no coincidence, founding fathers are rolling their graves, fuock big govt
    T2

  8. Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    I appreciate you finding this for me. I made the post while commuting. This hasn't been taken well by me, the guys I worked with were pretty much family to me, and the passion Eric had on the back end to make this company something fantastic is something that will inspire me for years to come. With my head being in a million places right now, I didn't even think about if my post was going to be understood or not.
    Feeling similar bud...

    I would like to thank you guys for all of the support


  9. Quote Originally Posted by Freepress View Post
    What is among the most disconcerting things about this, for me, is that I specifically remember Eric, upon launch of the AndroSeries, boldly declaring, "We'll have our position papers ready" and fight them head on. I'm partially paraphrasing, but I thought that with the introduction of the AndroSeries came a fervor for defending its DSHEA compliance.

    I realize this is no easy feat. You're dealing with runaway, bureaucratic, executive-level agencies that "enforce policy," as opposed to following laws. Policy can be stretched beyond the scope of the Constitution and the guarantees of due process.

    I am intrigued by Patrick Arnold's statement that, "They can't do that." I'd love to hear more about why they can't as this whole thing is intriguing to me, but still not unexpected.

    I hypothesized that it was the blatant, honest marketing of the products that got them into a pickle. Liberal use of the word "steroids," comparison to injectable testosterone and equivalency calculations and claims that were far too specific likely exacerbated this action. I'm not so sure someone didn't rat on them, either.

    The absence of a cease and desist letter is troubling to me as well. Though I am no attorney, this whole process seems to have run afoul of FDA's standard practices.

    What a mess. It truly sinks my heart to think about.
    there are many in this industry that think they know the law. they read it and think they understand it and then they act in whatever way. But if you are not an attorney you dont understand the law.

    companies need to retain attorneys. because the legal system is an entity whose players are attorneys. us non attorney people have no skin in there game. You are a fool if you think u understand the law and are not an attorney.

    When **** goes down it is way way beyond us regular folk to cope with. I try telling peeps this all the time. Get a good attorney. Protect urself
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  10. What about Toco-8? Dammit.
    •   
       


  11. Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    Extremely unfortunate turn of events... PP is a solid company and this is quite absurd.

    Tons and tons of cocaine, heroin etc getting moved everyday from Mexico and the gov is spending 100's of thousands of dollars investing in a case against a DSHEA compliant supplement. Think of all the man hours doing surveillance, putting together raid teams, high priced lawyers, internet monitoring and so on for months possibly a year collecting "evidence".

    The government originally was intended to be ran by the people and now?

    - Valdez
    pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! lol
    Formutech Nutrition Rep----------------Check out my CONQU3R log!:
    www.formutechnutrition.com------------- http://goo.gl/G8a4Ss
    www.facebook.com/fnutrition

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    there are many in this industry that think they know the law. they read it and think they understand it and then they act in whatever way. But if you are not an attorney you dont understand the law.

    companies need to retain attorneys. because the legal system is an entity whose players are attorneys. us non attorney people have no skin in there game. You are a fool if you think u understand the law and are not an attorney.

    When **** goes down it is way way beyond us regular folk to cope with. I try telling peeps this all the time. Get a good attorney. Protect urself
    Especially when so much of law is "interperatation of the law". There are a lot of grey areas that just can't be negotiated by the lay man. Many laws are designed as perposely vague so as to allow the court cases that follow to flesh out the law in real life with prescedent (or so it would appear).
    Formutech Nutrition Rep----------------Check out my CONQU3R log!:
    www.formutechnutrition.com------------- http://goo.gl/G8a4Ss
    www.facebook.com/fnutrition

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    there are many in this industry that think they know the law. they read it and think they understand it and then they act in whatever way. But if you are not an attorney you dont understand the law.

    companies need to retain attorneys. because the legal system is an entity whose players are attorneys. us non attorney people have no skin in there game. You are a fool if you think u understand the law and are not an attorney.

    When **** goes down it is way way beyond us regular folk to cope with. I try telling peeps this all the time. Get a good attorney. Protect urself
    I agree with you wholeheartedly. I figured that Eric had a good attorney on prepay and ready to spring into action. Maybe he did, hell, and this thing is just too big to fight. Either way, it sucks and leaves us all to question the future of this industry.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by schroedes View Post
    Prescription drug companies are some of the biggest lobbyists in Washington, this is no coincidence, founding fathers are rolling their graves, fuock big govt

    drug companies have nothing to do with this
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  15. Quote Originally Posted by cswalczakny View Post
    Especially when so much of law is "interperatation of the law". There are a lot of grey areas that just can't be negotiated by the lay man. Many laws are designed as perposely vague so as to allow the court cases that follow to flesh out the law in real life with prescedent (or so it would appear).

    and deals are made by attorneys making deals with attorneys.

    attorneys know one another. they have cases over the years where they have to confront one another. its totally like politics. tit for tat.

    they get together and they bargain. if you have a good attorney with pull and influence he will get u a deal.

    people that think that we have an objective system that is magically dictated by the "laws" live in a fairyland. Laws are amibiguous. And the legal system is subjective
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    drug companies have nothing to do with this
    X 100000
    Head Purus Labs Rep
    www.Puruslabs.net

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Freepress View Post
    I agree with you wholeheartedly. I figured that Eric had a good attorney on prepay and ready to spring into action. Maybe he did, hell, and this thing is just too big to fight. Either way, it sucks and leaves us all to question the future of this industry.
    many in this industry think they dont need an attorney on hand.

    and when they realize they did, its often too late
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  18. Pat,in your opinion,do you feel that PP was pushing the legal limits with the products they were producing? To me they seemed rather mild compared to a lot of other products. Or was this more of a "Go after a big fish" example?
    Always open light. Itís not what you open with, itís what you finish with. Louie Simmons

  19. I really liked the basic products they had. They used to have great deals on CLA, Creatine, and other products. Maybe PP can change focus to more basic supplements and away from hormonal stuff. Good luck guys. Hope everything turns out ok.

  20. According to androfactory primordial performance is finished. What do you guys think about that statement? They also say that primordial performance and androfactory were at one time the same company before the two owners split and went there seperate ways

  21. Quote Originally Posted by AZMIDLYF View Post
    Pat,in your opinion,do you feel that PP was pushing the legal limits with the products they were producing? To me they seemed rather mild compared to a lot of other products. Or was this more of a "Go after a big fish" example?
    marketing was the issue i am sure
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  22. Quote Originally Posted by JD261985 View Post
    According to androfactory primordial performance is finished. What do you guys think about that statement? They also say that primordial performance and androfactory were at one time the same company before the two owners split and went there seperate ways

    i dunno who the hell these andro factory people are

    i do know that there was this venus chick that made it seem like i was promoting there stuff a while ago on facebook. i objected and she made it seem like an honest mistake

    now i get this weird message today apologizing about something the supposedly just did to me. and i dunno what the hell they are talkiing about

    if there is stupid crap going on i dont want any part of it
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  23. I assumed PP was finished by them saying they were selling out remaining stock and couldn't afford to take on the FDA. Obviously I'm hoping that is not the case, but according to earlier posts I don't see how one could not come to that conclusion.
    EvoMuse Products Rep

    PM me with any questions!

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    I assumed PP was finished by them saying they were selling out remaining stock and couldn't afford to take on the FDA. Obviously I'm hoping that is not the case, but according to earlier posts I don't see how one could not come to that conclusion.
    they all eventually come back


    under a different incarnation
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  25. Quote Originally Posted by JD261985
    According to androfactory primordial performance is finished. What do you guys think about that statement? They also say that primordial performance and androfactory were at one time the same company before the two owners split and went there seperate ways
    Eric will dissolve PP and start up another- no reason to fight a losing battle w/ PP when he can just start fresh

    Serious Nutrition Solution ~~

    mw at seriousnutritionsolutions dot com
    Use anabolic05 for 5% off at Lockout supplements


  26. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

    they all eventually come back

    under a different incarnation
    Beat me to it but yes I'm sure that is already in the works

    Serious Nutrition Solution ~~

    mw at seriousnutritionsolutions dot com
    Use anabolic05 for 5% off at Lockout supplements


  27. Fda and big pharma are pretty much the same ppl...look at all the lateral hires of executive positions from either side. It's a sad time in history.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by AdelV View Post
    What about Toco-8? Dammit.
    Guys we are still selling our natural products such as EndoAmp, Phyto Test and yes Toco-8...


  29. Quote Originally Posted by ryansm View Post
    Guys we are still selling our natural products such as EndoAmp, Phyto Test and yes Toco-8...
    Endo and Toco... the best products to ever grace PP's shelves!
    The Historic PES Legend

  30. Quote Originally Posted by ponysteak
    Fda and big pharma are pretty much the same ppl...look at all the lateral hires of executive positions from either side. It's a sad time in history.
    Go back in time. FDA and big pharma certainly are one in the same. Look up the history of the FDA and see how it all began and why. Believe me consumers interests and safety were hardly a concern and they still aren't a concern. I swear they make little busts like the one on primordial performance and every ignorant concerned citizen gives them a pat on the back lol. Makes it look like they're doing something for the people. Yea ****ing right
  

  
 

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