Primordial Performance raided by FDA

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    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy
    we have officially stated we are folding. The time and money doesnt stack high enough to take on the FDA.
    Oh my God they killed Kenny!!!!!

    Sad day for the supplement industry...

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    Leave it to our resident natty lifter to be the most informed on this lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM View Post
    Leave it to our resident natty lifter to be the most informed on this lol
    When John said 'folding' I wondered if he meant the whole company or the Androseries line so I Google'd it. I am supposed to be marking assignments. Anabolic Minds is a constant internet distraction lol.
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    I appreciate you finding this for me. I made the post while commuting. This hasn't been taken well by me, the guys I worked with were pretty much family to me, and the passion Eric had on the back end to make this company something fantastic is something that will inspire me for years to come. With my head being in a million places right now, I didn't even think about if my post was going to be understood or not.
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    I hope all the PP boys wind up in a good place either with another company or another passion and successful business endeavor. Feeling for you guys big time. Sad day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD261985 View Post
    Honestly Eric shouldn't have anything to worry about. The products are legal and that's the bottom line. !

    oh yeah nothing to worry about

    they will just explain everything and all product will be returned and they will be selling before you know it

    dont take offense but you are without a clue
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    Statement by Matt: Current Status of Primordial
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    I appreciate you finding this for me. I made the post while commuting. This hasn't been taken well by me, the guys I worked with were pretty much family to me, and the passion Eric had on the back end to make this company something fantastic is something that will inspire me for years to come. With my head being in a million places right now, I didn't even think about if my post was going to be understood or not.
    I just read the statement Matt did and that thread...John , Eric...My sympathies , this was truly horrid act.I hope all of you find home and shelter in good companies you guys like...and that Eric and Matt can get over this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    Oh my God they killed Kenny!!!!!

    Sad day for the supplement industry...

    - Valdez
    Insane, I do believe things will be changing real fast around the game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gym4Life View Post
    What's the news on this thought primordial was ready for something like this as you said your products were legal an backed up by lawyers or something ? I hope you kick the FDA ass
    It doesn't matter if it is legal or not. They will raid, take the product then change the law to make them illegal and then charge them. Innocent till proven guilty and something having to be illegal before getting arrested no longer exists.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiveToLift

    Insane, I do believe things will be changing real fast around the game.
    Agreed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patuba

    It doesn't matter if it is legal or not. They will raid, take the product then change the law to make them illegal and then charge them. Innocent till proven guilty and something having to be illegal before getting arrested no longer exists.
    You are wrong there. Innocent until proven guilty does exist and it takes a considerable amount of time to make something illegal. Why do you think bath salts and salvia are still legal? Bath salts are killing people yet you can still buy it anywhere. The legal system MUST go by the books this is non negotiable
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD261985 View Post
    You are wrong there. Innocent until proven guilty does exist and it takes a considerable amount of time to make something illegal. Why do you think bath salts and salvia are still legal? Bath salts are killing people yet you can still buy it anywhere. The legal system MUST go by the books this is non negotiable
    The FDA can strangle any supplement company they want. They can come in, take all of their product, and put up a long winded court battle after 4 years of investigation. This strangles a company because they are generating no income, have no product to sell, have all of their capital that was in inventory inaccessible, and eventually the company runs out of energy or money, and the FDA has to prove nothing. This is what is meant by guilty until proven innocent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD261985 View Post
    You are wrong there. Innocent until proven guilty does exist and it takes a considerable amount of time to make something illegal. Why do you think bath salts and salvia are still legal? Bath salts are killing people yet you can still buy it anywhere. The legal system MUST go by the books this is non negotiable
    The FDA doesn't always play by the books and the government rewrites laws to fit their needs. Anyone thinking differently is just naive. Sorry for the name calling but true.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD261985

    You are wrong there. Innocent until proven guilty does exist and it takes a considerable amount of time to make something illegal. Why do you think bath salts and salvia are still legal? Bath salts are killing people yet you can still buy it anywhere. The legal system MUST go by the books this is non negotiable
    Where do you live? The government does what they want plain and simple.

    That raises another valid point tho, bath salts and salvia have been legal for years. These substances ARE killing people and instead of fighting that war, they go after PP for modified DHEA. Rx companies must be behind this...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    Where do you live? The government does what they want plain and simple.

    That raises another valid point tho, bath salts and salvia have been legal for years. These substances ARE killing people and instead of fighting that war, they go after PP for modified DHEA. Rx companies must be behind this...

    - Valdez
    They have passed numerous designer drug laws in recent years not unlike the ph/ds laws. Many states have also banned salvia. Bath Salts like ph/ds have been continually redesigned to circumvent laws passed. The two industries are not that different when it comes to the way they have evolved in response to legislation. The similarities end there of course.
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    I was merely trying to keep high hopes...I'm not naive. For the love of God if you knew me you wouldn't say that but I WANT TO BELIEVE (badly) that everything will be sorted out. I guess that's my final two cents on the issue
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    Guys relax the FDA did what they had to do so they can all get super jacked of pp products and go fight the Mexican drug cartel so lets ease up on them
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez

    Where do you live? The government does what they want plain and simple.

    That raises another valid point tho, bath salts and salvia have been legal for years. These substances ARE killing people and instead of fighting that war, they go after PP for modified DHEA. Rx companies must be behind this...

    - Valdez
    Wow good point...the RX companies paying the FDA to raid them makes sense...RX companies want to make money from androgel 1.62 and other trt products they understand there is money to be made in testosterone
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    Damn... And I thought I was having a $hitty month.

    Sorry does not describe how I feel for the folks at PP. I'm rather speechless that, in a country that touts innovation, public/private rights and freedoms, and holds it's own constitution as a living document that such an act has happened. Then again, look at all the contradictions that have occurred since it's inception.

    Hope things turn around for everyone quickly. Kind of feeling like I've lost a trustworthy friend after reading all this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patuba View Post
    It doesn't matter if it is legal or not. They will raid, take the product then change the law to make them illegal and then charge them. Innocent till proven guilty and something having to be illegal before getting arrested no longer exists.
    They can't do that
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    I always thought it was guilty til proven innocent.
    Hence the initial raid.
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    This makes me sad. I just recently discovered PP and fell in love with them. I was just about to order a supply of dermatherm. Might as well order a shirt so I can keep the memory of this great company alive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Best of luck HereToStudy. A great person in all respects, stay with us!
    I appreciate the kind words, and will still be around.
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    What is among the most disconcerting things about this, for me, is that I specifically remember Eric, upon launch of the AndroSeries, boldly declaring, "We'll have our position papers ready" and fight them head on. I'm partially paraphrasing, but I thought that with the introduction of the AndroSeries came a fervor for defending its DSHEA compliance.

    I realize this is no easy feat. You're dealing with runaway, bureaucratic, executive-level agencies that "enforce policy," as opposed to following laws. Policy can be stretched beyond the scope of the Constitution and the guarantees of due process.

    I am intrigued by Patrick Arnold's statement that, "They can't do that." I'd love to hear more about why they can't as this whole thing is intriguing to me, but still not unexpected.

    I hypothesized that it was the blatant, honest marketing of the products that got them into a pickle. Liberal use of the word "steroids," comparison to injectable testosterone and equivalency calculations and claims that were far too specific likely exacerbated this action. I'm not so sure someone didn't rat on them, either.

    The absence of a cease and desist letter is troubling to me as well. Though I am no attorney, this whole process seems to have run afoul of FDA's standard practices.

    What a mess. It truly sinks my heart to think about.
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    Prescription drug companies are some of the biggest lobbyists in Washington, this is no coincidence, founding fathers are rolling their graves, fuock big govt
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    I appreciate you finding this for me. I made the post while commuting. This hasn't been taken well by me, the guys I worked with were pretty much family to me, and the passion Eric had on the back end to make this company something fantastic is something that will inspire me for years to come. With my head being in a million places right now, I didn't even think about if my post was going to be understood or not.
    Feeling similar bud...

    I would like to thank you guys for all of the support

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freepress View Post
    What is among the most disconcerting things about this, for me, is that I specifically remember Eric, upon launch of the AndroSeries, boldly declaring, "We'll have our position papers ready" and fight them head on. I'm partially paraphrasing, but I thought that with the introduction of the AndroSeries came a fervor for defending its DSHEA compliance.

    I realize this is no easy feat. You're dealing with runaway, bureaucratic, executive-level agencies that "enforce policy," as opposed to following laws. Policy can be stretched beyond the scope of the Constitution and the guarantees of due process.

    I am intrigued by Patrick Arnold's statement that, "They can't do that." I'd love to hear more about why they can't as this whole thing is intriguing to me, but still not unexpected.

    I hypothesized that it was the blatant, honest marketing of the products that got them into a pickle. Liberal use of the word "steroids," comparison to injectable testosterone and equivalency calculations and claims that were far too specific likely exacerbated this action. I'm not so sure someone didn't rat on them, either.

    The absence of a cease and desist letter is troubling to me as well. Though I am no attorney, this whole process seems to have run afoul of FDA's standard practices.

    What a mess. It truly sinks my heart to think about.
    there are many in this industry that think they know the law. they read it and think they understand it and then they act in whatever way. But if you are not an attorney you dont understand the law.

    companies need to retain attorneys. because the legal system is an entity whose players are attorneys. us non attorney people have no skin in there game. You are a fool if you think u understand the law and are not an attorney.

    When **** goes down it is way way beyond us regular folk to cope with. I try telling peeps this all the time. Get a good attorney. Protect urself
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    Extremely unfortunate turn of events... PP is a solid company and this is quite absurd.

    Tons and tons of cocaine, heroin etc getting moved everyday from Mexico and the gov is spending 100's of thousands of dollars investing in a case against a DSHEA compliant supplement. Think of all the man hours doing surveillance, putting together raid teams, high priced lawyers, internet monitoring and so on for months possibly a year collecting "evidence".

    The government originally was intended to be ran by the people and now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    there are many in this industry that think they know the law. they read it and think they understand it and then they act in whatever way. But if you are not an attorney you dont understand the law.

    companies need to retain attorneys. because the legal system is an entity whose players are attorneys. us non attorney people have no skin in there game. You are a fool if you think u understand the law and are not an attorney.

    When **** goes down it is way way beyond us regular folk to cope with. I try telling peeps this all the time. Get a good attorney. Protect urself
    Especially when so much of law is "interperatation of the law". There are a lot of grey areas that just can't be negotiated by the lay man. Many laws are designed as perposely vague so as to allow the court cases that follow to flesh out the law in real life with prescedent (or so it would appear).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    there are many in this industry that think they know the law. they read it and think they understand it and then they act in whatever way. But if you are not an attorney you dont understand the law.

    companies need to retain attorneys. because the legal system is an entity whose players are attorneys. us non attorney people have no skin in there game. You are a fool if you think u understand the law and are not an attorney.

    When **** goes down it is way way beyond us regular folk to cope with. I try telling peeps this all the time. Get a good attorney. Protect urself
    I agree with you wholeheartedly. I figured that Eric had a good attorney on prepay and ready to spring into action. Maybe he did, hell, and this thing is just too big to fight. Either way, it sucks and leaves us all to question the future of this industry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by schroedes View Post
    Prescription drug companies are some of the biggest lobbyists in Washington, this is no coincidence, founding fathers are rolling their graves, fuock big govt

    drug companies have nothing to do with this
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    Quote Originally Posted by cswalczakny View Post
    Especially when so much of law is "interperatation of the law". There are a lot of grey areas that just can't be negotiated by the lay man. Many laws are designed as perposely vague so as to allow the court cases that follow to flesh out the law in real life with prescedent (or so it would appear).

    and deals are made by attorneys making deals with attorneys.

    attorneys know one another. they have cases over the years where they have to confront one another. its totally like politics. tit for tat.

    they get together and they bargain. if you have a good attorney with pull and influence he will get u a deal.

    people that think that we have an objective system that is magically dictated by the "laws" live in a fairyland. Laws are amibiguous. And the legal system is subjective
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    drug companies have nothing to do with this
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freepress View Post
    I agree with you wholeheartedly. I figured that Eric had a good attorney on prepay and ready to spring into action. Maybe he did, hell, and this thing is just too big to fight. Either way, it sucks and leaves us all to question the future of this industry.
    many in this industry think they dont need an attorney on hand.

    and when they realize they did, its often too late
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    Pat,in your opinion,do you feel that PP was pushing the legal limits with the products they were producing? To me they seemed rather mild compared to a lot of other products. Or was this more of a "Go after a big fish" example?
    Always open light. It’s not what you open with, it’s what you finish with. Louie Simmons
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    I really liked the basic products they had. They used to have great deals on CLA, Creatine, and other products. Maybe PP can change focus to more basic supplements and away from hormonal stuff. Good luck guys. Hope everything turns out ok.
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    According to androfactory primordial performance is finished. What do you guys think about that statement? They also say that primordial performance and androfactory were at one time the same company before the two owners split and went there seperate ways
  

  
 

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