Primordial Performance raided by FDA

Page 2 of 8 First 12347 ... Last
  1. Registered User
    Spaniard's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  186 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    6,815
    Answers
    2


    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy
    we have officially stated we are folding. The time and money doesnt stack high enough to take on the FDA.
    Oh my God they killed Kenny!!!!!

    Sad day for the supplement industry...

    - Valdez
    Olympus Labs DemiGod And Rep ~ http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/253076-spaniards-coliseum-featuring.html~http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/220023-valdez-goes-back-29.html

  2. Registered User
    FL3X MAGNUM's Avatar
    Stats
    6'5"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Age
    28
    Posts
    11,394
    Answers
    0


    Leave it to our resident natty lifter to be the most informed on this lol
    Genomyx Rep
    www.genomyx.com
  3. Registered User
    bdcc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    10,174
    Answers
    2


    Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM View Post
    Leave it to our resident natty lifter to be the most informed on this lol
    When John said 'folding' I wondered if he meant the whole company or the Androseries line so I Google'd it. I am supposed to be marking assignments. Anabolic Minds is a constant internet distraction lol.
    PES Representative
    http://pescience.com/insider
    http://selectprotein.com
    •   
       

  4. Primordial Performance Rep
    Board Sponsor
    HereToStudy's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  208 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    9,390
    Answers
    0


    I appreciate you finding this for me. I made the post while commuting. This hasn't been taken well by me, the guys I worked with were pretty much family to me, and the passion Eric had on the back end to make this company something fantastic is something that will inspire me for years to come. With my head being in a million places right now, I didn't even think about if my post was going to be understood or not.
    Just inject.
    Facebook:
    www.facebook.com/heretostudy
  5. Registered User
    Geoforce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    3,877
    Answers
    0


    I hope all the PP boys wind up in a good place either with another company or another passion and successful business endeavor. Feeling for you guys big time. Sad day.
    EvoMuse Products Rep

    PM me with any questions!
  6. Featured Author
    Patrick Arnold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    4,119
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by JD261985 View Post
    Honestly Eric shouldn't have anything to worry about. The products are legal and that's the bottom line. !

    oh yeah nothing to worry about

    they will just explain everything and all product will be returned and they will be selling before you know it

    dont take offense but you are without a clue
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  7. Primordial Performance Rep
    Board Sponsor
    HereToStudy's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  208 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    9,390
    Answers
    0


    Statement by Matt: Current Status of Primordial
    Just inject.
    Facebook:
    www.facebook.com/heretostudy
  8. Registered User
    Celorza's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  150 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Age
    23
    Posts
    9,552
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    I appreciate you finding this for me. I made the post while commuting. This hasn't been taken well by me, the guys I worked with were pretty much family to me, and the passion Eric had on the back end to make this company something fantastic is something that will inspire me for years to come. With my head being in a million places right now, I didn't even think about if my post was going to be understood or not.
    I just read the statement Matt did and that thread...John , Eric...My sympathies , this was truly horrid act.I hope all of you find home and shelter in good companies you guys like...and that Eric and Matt can get over this.
    >SNS-Glycophase<
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Rep
  9. Registered User
    LiveToLift's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    13,398
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    Oh my God they killed Kenny!!!!!

    Sad day for the supplement industry...

    - Valdez
    Insane, I do believe things will be changing real fast around the game.
    PES Representative
    http://pescience.com/insider http://facebook.com/pescience
  10. Registered User
    Patuba's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  176 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Age
    37
    Posts
    490
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by Gym4Life View Post
    What's the news on this thought primordial was ready for something like this as you said your products were legal an backed up by lawyers or something ? I hope you kick the FDA ass
    It doesn't matter if it is legal or not. They will raid, take the product then change the law to make them illegal and then charge them. Innocent till proven guilty and something having to be illegal before getting arrested no longer exists.
    William Llewellyn's Anabolics, Underground Anabolics, and SSRG ebook editions!
  11. Registered User
    Spaniard's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  186 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    6,815
    Answers
    2


    Quote Originally Posted by LiveToLift

    Insane, I do believe things will be changing real fast around the game.
    Agreed

    - Valdez
    Olympus Labs DemiGod And Rep ~ http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/253076-spaniards-coliseum-featuring.html~http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/220023-valdez-goes-back-29.html
  12. Banned
    JD261985's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  171 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,704
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by Patuba

    It doesn't matter if it is legal or not. They will raid, take the product then change the law to make them illegal and then charge them. Innocent till proven guilty and something having to be illegal before getting arrested no longer exists.
    You are wrong there. Innocent until proven guilty does exist and it takes a considerable amount of time to make something illegal. Why do you think bath salts and salvia are still legal? Bath salts are killing people yet you can still buy it anywhere. The legal system MUST go by the books this is non negotiable
  13. Primordial Performance Rep
    Board Sponsor
    HereToStudy's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  208 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    9,390
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by JD261985 View Post
    You are wrong there. Innocent until proven guilty does exist and it takes a considerable amount of time to make something illegal. Why do you think bath salts and salvia are still legal? Bath salts are killing people yet you can still buy it anywhere. The legal system MUST go by the books this is non negotiable
    The FDA can strangle any supplement company they want. They can come in, take all of their product, and put up a long winded court battle after 4 years of investigation. This strangles a company because they are generating no income, have no product to sell, have all of their capital that was in inventory inaccessible, and eventually the company runs out of energy or money, and the FDA has to prove nothing. This is what is meant by guilty until proven innocent.
    Just inject.
    Facebook:
    www.facebook.com/heretostudy
  14. Registered User
    Patuba's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  176 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Age
    37
    Posts
    490
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by JD261985 View Post
    You are wrong there. Innocent until proven guilty does exist and it takes a considerable amount of time to make something illegal. Why do you think bath salts and salvia are still legal? Bath salts are killing people yet you can still buy it anywhere. The legal system MUST go by the books this is non negotiable
    The FDA doesn't always play by the books and the government rewrites laws to fit their needs. Anyone thinking differently is just naive. Sorry for the name calling but true.
    William Llewellyn's Anabolics, Underground Anabolics, and SSRG ebook editions!
  15. Registered User
    Spaniard's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  186 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    6,815
    Answers
    2


    Quote Originally Posted by JD261985

    You are wrong there. Innocent until proven guilty does exist and it takes a considerable amount of time to make something illegal. Why do you think bath salts and salvia are still legal? Bath salts are killing people yet you can still buy it anywhere. The legal system MUST go by the books this is non negotiable
    Where do you live? The government does what they want plain and simple.

    That raises another valid point tho, bath salts and salvia have been legal for years. These substances ARE killing people and instead of fighting that war, they go after PP for modified DHEA. Rx companies must be behind this...

    - Valdez
    Olympus Labs DemiGod And Rep ~ http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/253076-spaniards-coliseum-featuring.html~http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/220023-valdez-goes-back-29.html
  16. Registered User
    pushinweightw's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  224 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    416
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    Where do you live? The government does what they want plain and simple.

    That raises another valid point tho, bath salts and salvia have been legal for years. These substances ARE killing people and instead of fighting that war, they go after PP for modified DHEA. Rx companies must be behind this...

    - Valdez
    They have passed numerous designer drug laws in recent years not unlike the ph/ds laws. Many states have also banned salvia. Bath Salts like ph/ds have been continually redesigned to circumvent laws passed. The two industries are not that different when it comes to the way they have evolved in response to legislation. The similarities end there of course.
  17. Banned
    JD261985's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  171 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,704
    Answers
    0


    I was merely trying to keep high hopes...I'm not naive. For the love of God if you knew me you wouldn't say that but I WANT TO BELIEVE (badly) that everything will be sorted out. I guess that's my final two cents on the issue
  18. Registered User
    howwedo107's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    5,306
    Answers
    0


    Guys relax the FDA did what they had to do so they can all get super jacked of pp products and go fight the Mexican drug cartel so lets ease up on them
    Email me for free prodigy samples
    Ricky@pni-online.com
    www.pni-online.com
  19. Registered User
    howwedo107's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    5,306
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez

    Where do you live? The government does what they want plain and simple.

    That raises another valid point tho, bath salts and salvia have been legal for years. These substances ARE killing people and instead of fighting that war, they go after PP for modified DHEA. Rx companies must be behind this...

    - Valdez
    Wow good point...the RX companies paying the FDA to raid them makes sense...RX companies want to make money from androgel 1.62 and other trt products they understand there is money to be made in testosterone
    Email me for free prodigy samples
    Ricky@pni-online.com
    www.pni-online.com
  20. Registered User
    Colbicide's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  319 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Age
    38
    Posts
    835
    Answers
    0


    Damn... And I thought I was having a $hitty month.

    Sorry does not describe how I feel for the folks at PP. I'm rather speechless that, in a country that touts innovation, public/private rights and freedoms, and holds it's own constitution as a living document that such an act has happened. Then again, look at all the contradictions that have occurred since it's inception.

    Hope things turn around for everyone quickly. Kind of feeling like I've lost a trustworthy friend after reading all this.
    “Beastmode is when you can not possibly go any further, but then you make a conscious choice to move forward”.
  21. Registered User
    mr.cooper69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    10,459
    Answers
    8


    Best of luck HereToStudy. A great person in all respects, stay with us!
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
  22. Featured Author
    Patrick Arnold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    4,119
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by Patuba View Post
    It doesn't matter if it is legal or not. They will raid, take the product then change the law to make them illegal and then charge them. Innocent till proven guilty and something having to be illegal before getting arrested no longer exists.
    They can't do that
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  23. Registered User
    FL3X MAGNUM's Avatar
    Stats
    6'5"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Age
    28
    Posts
    11,394
    Answers
    0


    I always thought it was guilty til proven innocent.
    Hence the initial raid.
    Genomyx Rep
    www.genomyx.com
  24. Registered User
    Hajiroku's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  166 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    98
    Answers
    0


    This makes me sad. I just recently discovered PP and fell in love with them. I was just about to order a supply of dermatherm. Might as well order a shirt so I can keep the memory of this great company alive.
  25. Primordial Performance Rep
    Board Sponsor
    HereToStudy's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  208 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    9,390
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Best of luck HereToStudy. A great person in all respects, stay with us!
    I appreciate the kind words, and will still be around.
    Just inject.
    Facebook:
    www.facebook.com/heretostudy
  26. Registered User
    Freepress's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  175 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    57
    Answers
    0


    What is among the most disconcerting things about this, for me, is that I specifically remember Eric, upon launch of the AndroSeries, boldly declaring, "We'll have our position papers ready" and fight them head on. I'm partially paraphrasing, but I thought that with the introduction of the AndroSeries came a fervor for defending its DSHEA compliance.

    I realize this is no easy feat. You're dealing with runaway, bureaucratic, executive-level agencies that "enforce policy," as opposed to following laws. Policy can be stretched beyond the scope of the Constitution and the guarantees of due process.

    I am intrigued by Patrick Arnold's statement that, "They can't do that." I'd love to hear more about why they can't as this whole thing is intriguing to me, but still not unexpected.

    I hypothesized that it was the blatant, honest marketing of the products that got them into a pickle. Liberal use of the word "steroids," comparison to injectable testosterone and equivalency calculations and claims that were far too specific likely exacerbated this action. I'm not so sure someone didn't rat on them, either.

    The absence of a cease and desist letter is troubling to me as well. Though I am no attorney, this whole process seems to have run afoul of FDA's standard practices.

    What a mess. It truly sinks my heart to think about.
  27. Registered User
    schroedes's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  221 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    555
    Answers
    0


    Prescription drug companies are some of the biggest lobbyists in Washington, this is no coincidence, founding fathers are rolling their graves, fuock big govt
    T2
  28. Registered User
    ryansm's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  305 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    8,142
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    I appreciate you finding this for me. I made the post while commuting. This hasn't been taken well by me, the guys I worked with were pretty much family to me, and the passion Eric had on the back end to make this company something fantastic is something that will inspire me for years to come. With my head being in a million places right now, I didn't even think about if my post was going to be understood or not.
    Feeling similar bud...

    I would like to thank you guys for all of the support

  29. Featured Author
    Patrick Arnold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    4,119
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by Freepress View Post
    What is among the most disconcerting things about this, for me, is that I specifically remember Eric, upon launch of the AndroSeries, boldly declaring, "We'll have our position papers ready" and fight them head on. I'm partially paraphrasing, but I thought that with the introduction of the AndroSeries came a fervor for defending its DSHEA compliance.

    I realize this is no easy feat. You're dealing with runaway, bureaucratic, executive-level agencies that "enforce policy," as opposed to following laws. Policy can be stretched beyond the scope of the Constitution and the guarantees of due process.

    I am intrigued by Patrick Arnold's statement that, "They can't do that." I'd love to hear more about why they can't as this whole thing is intriguing to me, but still not unexpected.

    I hypothesized that it was the blatant, honest marketing of the products that got them into a pickle. Liberal use of the word "steroids," comparison to injectable testosterone and equivalency calculations and claims that were far too specific likely exacerbated this action. I'm not so sure someone didn't rat on them, either.

    The absence of a cease and desist letter is troubling to me as well. Though I am no attorney, this whole process seems to have run afoul of FDA's standard practices.

    What a mess. It truly sinks my heart to think about.
    there are many in this industry that think they know the law. they read it and think they understand it and then they act in whatever way. But if you are not an attorney you dont understand the law.

    companies need to retain attorneys. because the legal system is an entity whose players are attorneys. us non attorney people have no skin in there game. You are a fool if you think u understand the law and are not an attorney.

    When **** goes down it is way way beyond us regular folk to cope with. I try telling peeps this all the time. Get a good attorney. Protect urself
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  30. Registered User
    AdelV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,940
    Answers
    0


    What about Toco-8? Dammit.
  31. Registered User
    TheSwanks's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Age
    30
    Posts
    8,983
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    Extremely unfortunate turn of events... PP is a solid company and this is quite absurd.

    Tons and tons of cocaine, heroin etc getting moved everyday from Mexico and the gov is spending 100's of thousands of dollars investing in a case against a DSHEA compliant supplement. Think of all the man hours doing surveillance, putting together raid teams, high priced lawyers, internet monitoring and so on for months possibly a year collecting "evidence".

    The government originally was intended to be ran by the people and now?

    - Valdez
    pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! lol
    Formutech Nutrition Rep----------------Check out my CONQU3R log!:
    www.formutechnutrition.com------------- http://goo.gl/G8a4Ss
    www.facebook.com/fnutrition
  32. Registered User
    TheSwanks's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Age
    30
    Posts
    8,983
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    there are many in this industry that think they know the law. they read it and think they understand it and then they act in whatever way. But if you are not an attorney you dont understand the law.

    companies need to retain attorneys. because the legal system is an entity whose players are attorneys. us non attorney people have no skin in there game. You are a fool if you think u understand the law and are not an attorney.

    When **** goes down it is way way beyond us regular folk to cope with. I try telling peeps this all the time. Get a good attorney. Protect urself
    Especially when so much of law is "interperatation of the law". There are a lot of grey areas that just can't be negotiated by the lay man. Many laws are designed as perposely vague so as to allow the court cases that follow to flesh out the law in real life with prescedent (or so it would appear).
    Formutech Nutrition Rep----------------Check out my CONQU3R log!:
    www.formutechnutrition.com------------- http://goo.gl/G8a4Ss
    www.facebook.com/fnutrition
  33. Registered User
    Freepress's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  175 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    57
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    there are many in this industry that think they know the law. they read it and think they understand it and then they act in whatever way. But if you are not an attorney you dont understand the law.

    companies need to retain attorneys. because the legal system is an entity whose players are attorneys. us non attorney people have no skin in there game. You are a fool if you think u understand the law and are not an attorney.

    When **** goes down it is way way beyond us regular folk to cope with. I try telling peeps this all the time. Get a good attorney. Protect urself
    I agree with you wholeheartedly. I figured that Eric had a good attorney on prepay and ready to spring into action. Maybe he did, hell, and this thing is just too big to fight. Either way, it sucks and leaves us all to question the future of this industry.
  34. Featured Author
    Patrick Arnold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    4,119
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by schroedes View Post
    Prescription drug companies are some of the biggest lobbyists in Washington, this is no coincidence, founding fathers are rolling their graves, fuock big govt

    drug companies have nothing to do with this
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  35. Featured Author
    Patrick Arnold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    4,119
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by cswalczakny View Post
    Especially when so much of law is "interperatation of the law". There are a lot of grey areas that just can't be negotiated by the lay man. Many laws are designed as perposely vague so as to allow the court cases that follow to flesh out the law in real life with prescedent (or so it would appear).

    and deals are made by attorneys making deals with attorneys.

    attorneys know one another. they have cases over the years where they have to confront one another. its totally like politics. tit for tat.

    they get together and they bargain. if you have a good attorney with pull and influence he will get u a deal.

    people that think that we have an objective system that is magically dictated by the "laws" live in a fairyland. Laws are amibiguous. And the legal system is subjective
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  36. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Grambo's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  188 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    3,790
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    drug companies have nothing to do with this
    X 100000
    Head Purus Labs Rep
    www.Puruslabs.net
  37. Featured Author
    Patrick Arnold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    4,119
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by Freepress View Post
    I agree with you wholeheartedly. I figured that Eric had a good attorney on prepay and ready to spring into action. Maybe he did, hell, and this thing is just too big to fight. Either way, it sucks and leaves us all to question the future of this industry.
    many in this industry think they dont need an attorney on hand.

    and when they realize they did, its often too late
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
  38. Registered User
    AZMIDLYF's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Age
    55
    Posts
    14,702
    Answers
    0


    Pat,in your opinion,do you feel that PP was pushing the legal limits with the products they were producing? To me they seemed rather mild compared to a lot of other products. Or was this more of a "Go after a big fish" example?
    Always open light. It’s not what you open with, it’s what you finish with. Louie Simmons
  39. Registered User
    T-Bone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    15,633
    Answers
    0


    I really liked the basic products they had. They used to have great deals on CLA, Creatine, and other products. Maybe PP can change focus to more basic supplements and away from hormonal stuff. Good luck guys. Hope everything turns out ok.
  40. Banned
    JD261985's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  171 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,704
    Answers
    0


    According to androfactory primordial performance is finished. What do you guys think about that statement? They also say that primordial performance and androfactory were at one time the same company before the two owners split and went there seperate ways
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Replies: 89
    Last Post: 09-18-2009, 02:28 PM
  2. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-03-2009, 05:30 PM
  3. For Sale: 1-T by Primordial Performance (Muscle Builders)
    By Maxwell600 in forum Supplement Auction
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-14-2009, 07:56 AM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-27-2008, 12:57 PM
  5. TEA-3 by Primordial Performance
    By fatburner2007 in forum Supplements
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12-07-2007, 07:16 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in