Need test booster help

[sniper80]

Just found out I qualify for trt. Doc will only prescribe androgel to me at the moment. My free test and total test came in at the very bottom of the normal range. Doc will not prescribe hcg or ai to me until he sees new bloodwork after using two bottles of androgel to see what it does. Im going to give the natural way one last try before I go on trt because I just dont feel I should be goin on at 31 years old cause maybe my problem is just temporary. The only otc test booster experience I have is oral sustain alpha. So what yall think I should take to raise these levels as high as I can naturally?

 

[MidwestBeast]

If anything, DAA and/or HCGenerate.

However, I know 31 is young, but I'd still look at the TRT. That's just me, though. I don't want to go on it any earlier than I have to, either, but as soon as I need it, I'll definitely take it if my levels indicate the need.

 

[thebigt]

ntbm has some great ones that i have tried and can personally vouch for: hcgenerate/formastanzol/transaderm...you can't go wrong with any of these!!!


others that i have had good results with are endosurge by bps/titanium and formula-x by athletix/testopro by anabolic innovations/fadogia by i-force.


i can understand your reluctance to go on trt at such a young age, but if your test is that low trt will improve your life dramatically. btw-there are 2 otc products that i can personally tell you will help with any estrogen issues and actually improve the results of the testosterone-they are erase by pes, and formastanzol by ntbm.


good luck!

 

[BarbellBeast]

Definitely try out the HCGenerate. It's by far the best out there and many ppl will vouch for that!

 

[BarbellBeast]

I know it's a pricey product but PM me and I will get you taken care of if you want a good deal bud.

 

[andrew732]

ntbm has some great ones that i have tried and can personally vouch for: hcgenerate/formastanzol/transaderm...you can't go wrong with any of these!!!


others that i have had good results with are endosurge by bps/titanium and formula-x by athletix/testopro by anabolic innovations/fadogia by i-force.


i can understand your reluctance to go on trt at such a young age, but if your test is that low trt will improve your life dramatically. btw-there are 2 otc products that i can personally tell you will help with any estrogen issues and actually improve the results of the testosterone-they are erase by pes, and formastanzol by ntbm.


good luck!

T you gotta stack 1 pump of Transaderm with 1-2 pumps of Forma, stuff gave insane androgenic effects and boosted my ENDOGENOUS levels of testosterone. UNBELIEVABLE stack BUT if you are not on TRT, I ONLY recommend taking it 1-2 times a week with a 2 week off lay off after 4-6 weeks of usage. Stuff is potent.

 

[sniper80]

looking at hcgenerate, bioforge v3, or activate xtreme. Gonna read up on the formastanzol.

 

[gymrat827]

HCGenerate

If you want info on Forma stanzol goto the ntbm section. In the 101 anabolics sticky thread theres a 4-5 paragraph write up on forma.

 

[Colbert]

Daa my friend daa. Or try phytoserm 347. Some one tried it and uploaded blood work and it showed that it raised test level.

Every bodybuilder wishes they were on Trt. My friend you have the golden ticket right now...dont fight it, enjoy it.

 

[StackedCop]

Use DAA with a product like Erase or ReversitolV2

 

[R1balla]

DAA, Sustain Alpha TD, Endoamp

 

[BigBlackGuy]

DAA, Sustain Alpha TD, Endoamp

This. It's basically a three way between Test Boosting (DAA), Estrogen control (Sustain Alpha) and Cortisol Control (EndoAmp).

There are alternatives of course. Erase and 7-dhea are good for cortisol control, Aromasin and formestane can work for Estrogen control and test boosting, well DAA is the best, I recommend TCF-1 or Test Force 2.

 

[swollen87]

Every bodybuilder wishes they were on Trt. My friend you have the golden ticket right now...dont fight it, enjoy it.

really? i dont think so....

 

[R1balla]

every bodybuilder wishes we are on TRT? c'mon man! (chris berman voice)

 

[kingjameskjf]

DAA works great. I ran some with formestane and had good results. DAA goes well solo as well.

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

DAA is great stuff for sure! I personally had great experience stacking DAA with Tropinol and Erase, test was WAY up and had great energy.
DAA unfortunately gives me stomach issues so I don't take it quite as often as your other test supplement junkies.
I just got my Testo/100 patches in the mail from AgeForce though and am really excited to get some natural test benefits transdermally.

 

[thebigt]

T you gotta stack 1 pump of Transaderm with 1-2 pumps of Forma, stuff gave insane androgenic effects and boosted my ENDOGENOUS levels of testosterone. UNBELIEVABLE stack BUT if you are not on TRT, I ONLY recommend taking it 1-2 times a week with a 2 week off lay off after 4-6 weeks of usage. Stuff is potent.

lol-i know...look at my transaderm 1st impression thread. i was using 4 pumps each 2xday...just bumped it up to 5-plus i been throwing in some hcgenerate......libido is on fire!

 

[stopstalking]

I would be jumping all over the chance for trt. If your gonna give it one last natty chance though i would go like this

Hcgenerate,daa, erase or forma

 

[sniper80]

The problem I have with goin on trt at the moment is that the dosages being prescribed to me are only goin to put me a couple of hundred points above baseline. Doctor is going to adjust dosage as needed to prevent me from having test levels to high. The kind I would need to see some serious benefit strength and muscle wise he wants to avoid. Wont even prescribe a ai or hcg unless it becomes necessary. And he will only start with androgel which to me seems like a hassle. Then move to injections if necessary. Only 31 and dont wont to be pinning just to have average test levels of someone my age when I can maybe achieve that naturally

 

[sniper80]

Maybe some lifestyle and diet changes can fix my problem along with a t booster

 

[miniarnold]

i would avoid trt personally if you can do without, to many complications possible sides and other assistance drugs prob needed (hcg, ais) more complicated and not as easy as bam your on it your ok, will prob be a lifelong thing also. last resort if all else fails is mo.

 

[miniarnold]

Interested in theses products mentioned in this thread,

hcggenerate
formastane/ formastanzol (the same thing?)
transaderm
sustain alpha td
endosurge
phytoserm 347

but which are Tboosters and which are AIs any are any natty products ??

Thanks.

 

[R1balla]

i would just take DAA and Sustain Alpha or u could also add in IGF 2. especially for your age and T levels, you would benefit greatly from IGF 2. PM me for 40% off IGF 2 if you are interested.

....maybe i can see if i can get u to run a sponsored log. thats how confident i am that u will love it

 

[thebigt]

i am currently logging transaderm/formastanzol, results have exceeded my expectations. i can also recommend hcgenerate/endosurge from personal experience.

i can just about guarantee good results with any of these products-i put my reputation on it!!!!

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

i am currently logging transaderm/formastanzol, results have exceeded my expectations. i can also recommend hcgenerate/endosurge from personal experience.

i can just about guarantee good results with any of these products-i put my reputation on it!!!!

Thebigt approoooooooves it!

 

[Sourdough]

The problem I have with goin on trt at the moment is that the dosages being prescribed to me are only goin to put me a couple of hundred points above baseline. Doctor is going to adjust dosage as needed to prevent me from having test levels to high. The kind I would need to see some serious benefit strength and muscle wise he wants to avoid. Wont even prescribe a ai or hcg unless it becomes necessary. And he will only start with androgel which to me seems like a hassle. Then move to injections if necessary. Only 31 and dont wont to be pinning just to have average test levels of someone my age when I can maybe achieve that naturally

DAA(3g ed), low dose AI of choice, Macuna Pruriens (5g ed) run this for 3 months and see what you get on your next test

Check both these threads out... You will be amazed....

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3031238

Thanks for the thread assistance. DAA has generated a LOT of interest in the body composition world and that is perhaps needless to say, but the original studies were VERY intriguing and it seemed like finally we had a true "holy grail" as the dust settled on yet another crop of PH/PS/DS agents. "Slowly" but surely, sports nutrition companies began using this compound and with fever trying to jump on perhaps the next big thing. When I gave a presentation at the ISSN meeting in 2010, 13 products had already been introduced on the sports nutrition side probably in about an 8-month timeframe that included this ingredient or were solo products!

Anyone who is shifting the HPGA (for people familiar with my writing, you know I do not care for the term HPTA as "T" can mean "Testicular" but also "Thyroid" axis in that setting; so I reserve HPGA for the testes where "G" stands for "Gonadal" and then I leave the HPTA in tact for the thyroid side) can certainly be susceptible to side effects and this is dependent (as many other things) on so many different variables. We'll take estrogen and prolactin in turn because those were the things mentioned.

Estrogen: if we increase testosterone, there is a good chance you will be susceptible to aromatic conversion (the so-called diversification pathway in androgen metabolism)...this is dependent upon a host of things; one more prominent among them would be bodyfat % and keeping in mind that the higher the bodyfat%, the higher the levels of aromatase and higher test levels converting. The unfortunate thing is that the picture doesn't stop there...there are 1000s of things in the environment that increase SHBG. If you suffer concomitant SHBG increases which is even impacted by compounds some companies think they are putting in to make their DAA product "different" may wreak further havoc on the system. See, the unfortunate thing is that SHBG has a higher affinity for testosterone as compared with estrogen. Hopefully you can see how this would be a problem. Picture the coupling now of increased aromatic conversion with higher levels of SHBG with a higher affinity for androgen as opposed to estrogen. So, higher levels of E + lower levels of Free T is a pretty bad pairing I think you'd agree.

Prolactin: This appears to be an issue with long-term administration; not necessarily the short term. We just don't accurately know how to define long-term and short-term. Is long-term defined as anything greater than 12 days (original Italian study data); my suspicion is not from my own data...but probably greater than about 1.5-3 months of straight use. This is not to suggest everyone will have issues. I myself used 3.12 grams of DAA for a full year without concomitant changes in prolactin levels. Keep in mind, prolacin will act as an inhibitor of GnRH at the level of the hypothalamus and LH and FSH at the level of the pituitary. Jesus, now picture this coupled with increased SHBG and estrogen! Needless to say, our T:E ratio has changed precipitously in that setting.

But this is not meant to strike fear in the hearts of men and suggest it a poor test-promoting agent; at least not if cogniscent of the potential for all this to happen. The issue with just employing an AI is perhaps obvious UNLESS you are using it in the short term. If using it in the long-term, then we have the issue of prolactin to now contend with...that said, should we employ agents that stimulate dopamine which sounds very good on paper? Dopamine inhibits prolactin.

But now, what to do about long-term use of a dopamine agonist. Well - pharmaceutically speaking, cabergoline can cause grief with heart valves - NO WAY MAN! Bromocriptine has a lot of uncomfortable effects (nausea and orthostatic hypotension being big ones); possibly less pertient with short-acting forms. Plus, you could see lowering of blood sugar which will lower inert insulin levels and could at least hypothetically-speaking make SHBG levels increase...WTF! Now what? How about long-term use of dietary supplements that would act as a dopamine agonist? Well, now we have the final concern...if keeping dopamine agonist on board keeps dopamine secretion in the "on" postition, what's going to stop downregulation of dopamine receptors?

WOW - so how to summarize all of that?


Probably what would be best is a scheme that looks more like this:

(1) < 1 month: add AI
(2) > 1 month: add intermittent use of dopamine agonist to DAA + AI in a 5 on, 2 off -or- 3 on, 1 off fashion (I prefer the 5 on, 2 off "Weekend Holdiay" pattern for most things micro-cycled).
(3) Consider stopping at a max of 3 months (for now, until I can grab cummulative data - it will be on-going) if you do see a flare in side effects.


* What people think is that they can alter the system (their own system) to get a good end result without the potential for sides. What might be a reasonable offering is to make people understand that it's also ok to use other things, not necessarily every day alongside your primary ergogenic aid...but in mico-cycle fashion to avoid even further side effect by the addition of the "side effect protector." This is just not realistic.

Any takers in partaking in some closer monitoring of this protocol? Feel free to contact me VIA PM; do not post this in this thread.

Thanks,


D_

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/advanced-discussion-dr/184342-fertility.html

This is an interesting question actually. And for those who may be curious and have yet to stop by the DAA thread, we talk about the dopamine downregulation issues there unto which I have brought up protocols like the 5-on; 2-off and/or 3-on; 1 off variety to attempt to govern against this issue.

I can say this...the study suggested mucuna at 5 GRAMS (higher than any supplement you would likely take) daily for three months straight; I am unaware of data beyond that timeframe. We have to likely concern ourselves with whether or not these effects are seen at lower doses of mucuna (even if attenuated).

As you look at semen analyses, the two most pertinent things to look at are: Sperm Count (are there enough of them? Of course, you only need one theoretically, but we can make many assumptions based on the population at large for those who fall lower on the scale. 20 million is the quoted average; whereas < 5 million is truly "subfertile" with ok motiliy and "infertile" with lower motility) and Motility (can they swim well? a number greater than 50% is good).

Many times, thereapeutic agents increase one at the expense of the other (hCG included). The luxury is that this is NOT what was seen with the mucuna study in which BOTH parameters were improved.


D_

Fertil Steril. 2009 Dec;92(6):1934-40. Epub 2008 Oct 29.
Mucuna pruriens improves male fertility by its action on the hypothalamus-pituitary-gonadal axis.
Shukla KK, Mahdi AA, Ahmad MK, Shankhwar SN, Rajender S, Jaiswar SP.
SourceDepartment of Biochemistry, C.S.M. Medical University, Lucknow, India.

Abstract
OBJECTIVE: To understand the mechanism of action of Mucuna pruriens in the treatment of male infertility.

DESIGN: Prospective study.

SETTING: Departments of Biochemistry, Urology, and Obstetrics and Gynecology, C.S.M. Medical University, Lucknow, India.

PATIENT(S): Seventy-five normal healthy fertile men (controls) and 75 men undergoing infertility screening.

INTERVENTION(S): High-performance liquid chromatography assay for quantitation of dopa, adrenaline, and noradrenaline in seminal plasma and blood. Estimation by RIA of hormonal parameters in blood plasma, namely T, LH, FSH, and PRL.

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE(S): Before and after treatment, serum T, LH, FSH, PRL, dopamine, adrenaline, and noradrenaline in seminal and blood plasma were measured.

RESULT(S): Decreased sperm count and motility were seen in infertile subjects. Serum T and LH levels, as well as seminal plasma and blood levels of dopamine, adrenaline, and noradrenaline were also decreased in all groups of infertile men. This was accompanied by significantly increased serum FSH and PRL levels in oligozoospermic subjects. Treatment with M. pruriens significantly improved T, LH, dopamine, adrenaline, and noradrenaline levels in infertile men and reduced levels of FSH and PRL. Sperm count and motility were significantly recovered in infertile men after treatment.

CONCLUSION(S): Treatment with M. pruriens regulates steroidogenesis and improves semen quality in infertile men.

PMID:18973898[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[thebigt]

Thebigt approoooooooves it!

indeed!


and if anyone needs a ntbm product discount code for 15% off shoot me a pm, always glad to help out!!!