D Aspartic Acid & Negative side effects

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    Quote Originally Posted by bubsnt3 View Post
    Aspartic Acid Aspartate is a neurotransmitter in the brain ... (snip)

    Thanks for answering my questions - I didn't understand all of it but I got enough of it to understand exactly what the big deal might be.

    I will ease off the DAA I think - until there is more evidence on it's short and long term toxic effects. I use test boosters occasionally - but I really don't need to even though I'm 49 - my body still responds to training pretty well.

    Which kind of "segways" into another discussion - and that is this crazy quest (by many) to reach a free testosterone level of 10,000 or something like that. I think people forget - that there is a lot more to the equation than testosterone ...

    Now me - I have always responded to training - even if I eat badly - I can still build lean muscle. There have been times when I had to leave the gym (for whatever reason) and I stayed away for three, four years even - and I'd get fat as pig and you'd swear my muscle was totally gone - but whenever I came back I was able to quickly regain (within months) what I lost - and lose all the fat I had gained. It amazes me ...

    I don't think I am the only one like this. I think a lot of people on this board are like me.

    Does this mean I have high testosterone? Well, I don't know - because I have never paid attention to the blood tests when given one. But - I don't think so - because I have to WORK HARD to get down to 13% BF or lower. I can get under 18 no problem - but going under 13 is a trick for me!

    I think it means something else.

    I had a friend in the Navy who was the biggest horn-dog I've ever seen. He ****ed everything that moved - and when he wasn't ****ing with it he was yanking it - guy thought about nothing but sex. He couldn't help it - and felt a bit tormented by it - so he went to a psyche and the psyche actually tested his hormone profile. He came back on the high end for everything male related - which explained a lot concerning his sex drive.

    And he was a lean mother ****er too - not an ounce of fat on him. However - when we'd drag him into the gym to get his mind off shagging - he'd work like hell, eat like hell - and not gain an ounce of muscle.

    And I think - my dumb theory - is that the guy just didn't have it on the other end - the part where your muscles actually RESPOND to the presence of hormones and training and nutrition.

    I think many guys have "so-so" test levels - but their muscles just respond disproportionally to the presence of test and training - and they get big because of that.

    So I don't think testosterone is the "be all / end all".

    Then again - I'm pretty stupid and prolly should go lift something right now before I start thinking I'm smart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post
    Thanks for answering my questions - I didn't understand all of it but I got enough of it to understand exactly what the big deal might be.

    I will ease off the DAA I think - until there is more evidence on it's short and long term toxic effects. I use test boosters occasionally - but I really don't need to even though I'm 49 - my body still responds to training pretty well.

    Which kind of "segways" into another discussion - and that is this crazy quest (by many) to reach a free testosterone level of 10,000 or something like that. I think people forget - that there is a lot more to the equation than testosterone ...

    Now me - I have always responded to training - even if I eat badly - I can still build lean muscle. There have been times when I had to leave the gym (for whatever reason) and I stayed away for three, four years even - and I'd get fat as pig and you'd swear my muscle was totally gone - but whenever I came back I was able to quickly regain (within months) what I lost - and lose all the fat I had gained. It amazes me ...

    I don't think I am the only one like this. I think a lot of people on this board are like me.

    Does this mean I have high testosterone? Well, I don't know - because I have never paid attention to the blood tests when given one. But - I don't think so - because I have to WORK HARD to get down to 13% BF or lower. I can get under 18 no problem - but going under 13 is a trick for me!

    I think it means something else.

    I had a friend in the Navy who was the biggest horn-dog I've ever seen. He ****ed everything that moved - and when he wasn't ****ing with it he was yanking it - guy thought about nothing but sex. He couldn't help it - and felt a bit tormented by it - so he went to a psyche and the psyche actually tested his hormone profile. He came back on the high end for everything male related - which explained a lot concerning his sex drive.

    And he was a lean mother ****er too - not an ounce of fat on him. However - when we'd drag him into the gym to get his mind off shagging - he'd work like hell, eat like hell - and not gain an ounce of muscle.
    And I think - my dumb theory - is that the guy just didn't have it on the other end - the part where your muscles actually RESPOND to the presence of hormones and training and nutrition.

    I think many guys have "so-so" test levels - but their muscles just respond disproportionally to the presence of test and training - and they get big because of that.

    So I don't think testosterone is the "be all / end all".

    Then again - I'm pretty stupid and prolly should go lift something right now before I start thinking I'm smart.
    That's my problem, it's bad genetics. There's not one person in my family that has large muscles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluehealer View Post
    That's my problem, it's bad genetics. There's not one person in my family that has large muscles.
    Don't feel bad - at least you have brains - you can always hire and boss someone to pick up any weight you need!
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubsnt3 View Post
    yeah, those people don't have a vested interest in any DAA products
    People said they wanted Dr. Houser's opinion and there it is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastRonin View Post
    People said they wanted Dr. Houser's opinion and there it is.
    Wish you would have quoted the rest.. His initial view is a little flawed.. Although I didn't read the whole thread.. But I see what you are saying.. Thanks for the link..

    I would go give my input there but don't have time or attention for multiple forums.. There are some obvious problems with their input, as well as, the aspartame studies quoted..
    1. Aspartame is %40 L-DAA, given a 165lb person at 75mg/kg that is still only 2/3 of the dose of DAA that people are taking.
    2. Aspartame requires metabolism which is a rate limiting step for DAA production. This means that taking equal amounts of DAA and % wise of Aspartame are going to cause far different blood concentrations of DAA. Aspartame will not reach the same blood plasma level that straight DAA does even if you take the equivilant same amount
    3. DAA is an NMDA agonist itself
    4. Because of the higher blood concentrations of DAA, more is free to convert to NMDA at any given time. Addionally, given the secretion rate of DAA it is possible that you would never reach the blood acumulation level of DAA with Aspartame that you would with DAA supplementation

    Comparing Aspartame to DAA is like comparing L-lysine-D-amphetamine to D-amphetamine. It is far easier to reach nerotoxicity with an equivilant dose of D-amphet than with L-lysine-D-amphetamine
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubsnt3 View Post
    Wish you would have quoted the rest.. His initial view is a little flawed.. Although I didn't read the whole thread.. But I see what you are saying.. Thanks for the link..
    I saw no reason to quote it as I am not for your opinion or his and you already have a post with it on there. I was merely posting the link as a messenger. Short term sides IMO are nil and long term are reached for and inconclusive. People can make assumptions all they want one way or the other, until there are concrete facts, nobodies layman's opinion matters frankly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastRonin View Post
    I saw no reason to quote it as I am not for your opinion or his and you already have a post with it on there. I was merely posting the link as a messenger. Short term sides IMO are nil and long term are reached for and inconclusive. People can make assumptions all they want one way or the other, until there are concrete facts, nobodies layman's opinion matters frankly.
    As I stated earlier, someone could say the same thing about Methylenedioxypyrovalerone but taking that stance with substances on your body is you call.. That is what this thread is about. DAA is an exitotoxin and that is not an opinion.. Scientific fact regarding this has been posted multiple times.. The only thing even debatable is how much is too much.. And without human studies all we have is guesses. My point has been posted on this multiple times and I feel like I am being more argumentative than helpful at this point so I will sign off..

    Thanks everyone for the input!
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    I'm kind of surprised that no one has mentioned the protective effects that have been seen when pairing DHEA supplementation with that of NMDA agonists:

    The experiments reported here show that the neurosteroid DHEA has powerful ameliorating effects on excitatory amino acid-induced neurotoxicity. This conclusion is strengthened by this effect being demonstrated both in vitro and in vivo for NMDA.
    DHEA, together with DHEAS, is the most abundant steroid in the blood of young adult humans. Levels in humans decline with age and during certain types of illness or stress. We have found that DHEA(S) can prevent or reduce the neurotoxic actions in the hippocampus of the glutamate agonists N-methyl-D-aspartic acid (NMDA) both in vitro and in vivo or a-amino-3-hydroxy-5-methyl-4-isoxazolepropionic acid (AMPA) and kainic acid in vitro.

    Pre-treatment with DHEA (10–100 nM for 6–8 h) protected primary hippocampal cultures from embryonic day 18 (E18) embryos against NMDA-induced toxicity (0.1, 1, 10, and 50 mM). DHEA added either with NMDA (1 mM) or 1 h later had lesser, but still significant, protective actions. DHEAS also reduced NMDA-induced toxicity (1 mM), although the lowest effective dose of DHEAS (100 nM) was higher than that of DHEA (10 nM).

    DHEA (100 nM) protected cultured neurons against the neurotoxic actions of either AMPA (25 mM) or kainic acid (1 mM) as well. In vivo, s.c. pellets of DHEA, which resulted in plasma levels that resembled those in young adult humans, protected hippocampal CA1y2 neurons against unilateral infusions of 5 or 10 nmol of NMDA.

    Because the release of glutamate has been implicated in the neural damage after cerebral ischemia and other neural insults, these results suggest that decreased DHEA levels may contribute significantly to the increased vulnerability of the aging or stressed human brain to such damage.
    Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and DHEA-sulfate (DHEAS) protect hippocampal neurons against excitatory amino acid-induced neurotoxicity
    V. G. Kimonides, N. H. Khatibi, C. N. Svendsen, M. V. Sofroniew, and J. Herbert
    PNAS, Feb 1998; 95: 1852 - 1857.

    http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/95/4/1852


    Maybe taking Erase or another DHEA product a couple of hours before taking your dose of DAA is a good idea, if you're going to take it. Just another thing to consider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubsnt3 View Post
    As I stated earlier, someone could say the same thing about Methylenedioxypyrovalerone but taking that stance with substances on your body is you call.. That is what this thread is about. DAA is an exitotoxin and that is not an opinion.. Scientific fact regarding this has been posted multiple times.. The only thing even debatable is how much is too much.. And without human studies all we have is guesses. My point has been posted on this multiple times and I feel like I am being more argumentative than helpful at this point so I will sign off..

    Thanks everyone for the input!
    There are many things debatable one of which being whether or not DAA is toxic in ANY amount, especially by ingesting small amounts. There are NO tests that prove this. There are only YOUR theories. SO you can post the same thing again and again and it still does not matter one little bit. You are making a guess. Just because it is an agonist does not mean it causes any type of neurotoxicity.
    There is also no evidence as to the effect of anything major happening in the brain or making its way though the BBB and thus having a negative response. There is no scientific fact on this. There are some obscure studies that people are trying their best to link together. There is NO CONCLUSIVE STUDY ON THIS!
    By the way NDMA is a proven excitotoxin, not DAA itself. There are no studies on this as yet so it can not be proven.
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    so basically the general consensus of this thread is that i should stop taking my daa? even if at the moment im having no sides?
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    so basically the general consensus of this thread is that i should stop taking my daa? even if at the moment im having no sides?
    I ain't yo daddy!!!

    I don't think you would feel these sides brother. You would probable just end up in a old folk home at a early age. If all that's said is even true but I will not be taking my chances with this one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StakedCop View Post
    I ain't yo daddy!!!

    I don't think you would feel these sides brother. You would probable just end up in a old folk home at a early age. If all that's said is even true but I will not be taking my chances with this one.
    LOL... so daa could some day cause parkinsons or some type of neurological disorder?

    im already a recovering addict... lol ive put plenty of holes in my brain already.... so on one hand, i could say fu*ck it, but that never seems to work out the way i plan......

    if this stuff is actually potentially dangerous for my brain(or whats left of it), i think i should stop

    i read ur first post in this thread when u started it... im assuming you stopped taking it?
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    LOL... so daa could some day cause parkinsons or some type of neurological disorder?

    im already a recovering addict... lol ive put plenty of holes in my brain already.... so on one hand, i could say fu*ck it, but that never seems to work out the way i plan......

    if this stuff is actually potentially dangerous for my brain(or whats left of it), i think i should stop

    i read ur first post in this thread when u started it... im assuming you stopped taking it?
    Yes, I stopped the day I was made aware of the possible sides. I can't rely on my good looks forever so I need my brain, lol. Try to skim thru the posts i know it's a lot but it will be worth your time my friend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StakedCop View Post
    Yes, I stopped the day I was made aware of the possible sides. I can't rely on my good looks forever so I need my brain, lol. Try to skim thru the posts i know it's a lot but it will be worth your time my friend.
    thanks... (i must spread some reputation around)
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubsnt3 View Post
    That is what this thread is about. DAA is an exitotoxin and that is not an opinion.. Scientific fact regarding this has been posted multiple times..
    Actually it still is just your opinion no matter how many times you repeat it.

    I can't believe this thread is still going. The only one that keeps stating that DAA is an excitotoxin (btw, learn to spell the big words if you are going to toss them around) is bubs here. I'm not sure what his definition of excitotoxicty or an agonist is, but DAA has NOT been shown to be excitotoxic at any orally ingested level and if you have a single paper...JUST ONE!!!...then show it.

    Using your logic, every agonist of the NMDA receptor including glutamate should cause excitotoxicity. I wrote an entire PhD thesis on the role of nitric oxide in glutamatergic transmission as it pertains to schizophrenia. I was earlier told I was lying about being a neuroscientist and I don't wish to post my personal info on here, but if you want a copy of my thesis, PM your email and I will gladly send it. That isn't to say everything I say is fact, but I would think I have a better grasp on this topic than somebody who just copies and pastes from wikipedia.

    DAA has not been show to be excitotoxic. Doesn't mean it isn't, but it has not been shown to be even though this person keeps saying it does.

    My challenge still stands. Got a paper? Show it! Really not that complicated.
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    neuroscientist on anabolicminds............

    why do u even have any interest in daa... i bet you could make test in your sink..
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    Alek, I'm just trying to play safe. I don't think at any time I was rude or unprofessional with you so I don't think you're talking about me, lol. I do know, i don't know how to spell half the sh!t we're talking about let alone even know what any of it means. Which is the reason I have stopped supplementing with DAA.

    PM is on it's way. Even tho the chance of me comprehending it is close to none...

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    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    neuroscientist on anabolicminds............

    why do u even have any interest in daa... i bet you could make test in your sink..
    I know meatheads that make test in their basement, lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by StakedCop View Post
    Yes, I stopped the day I was made aware of the possible sides. I can't rely on my good looks forever so I need my brain, lol. Try to skim thru the posts i know it's a lot but it will be worth your time my friend.
    And bulbine is safer??? There is probably less known about that

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    Quote Originally Posted by mw1 View Post
    And bulbine is safer??? There is probably less known about that
    Ya know what **** it all I eat 3 pounds of raw meat a day and pop stims like candy. I'm ****ed anyway

    Mdrol was a real safe supplement too, I hear... Wrong topic. Anyway, you've been hating on bulbine since day one. Start and thread and Talk about it I will join in

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    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    neuroscientist on anabolicminds............

    why do u even have any interest in daa... i bet you could make test in your sink..
    I don't have an interest in DAA and am not taking it or endorsing any company that produces it. I simply saw somebody misquoting scientific studies and asked them if they could produce another source and it blew up from there.

    And I probably could, but the wife being a federal prosecutor would not appreciate it lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by StakedCop View Post
    Alek, I'm just trying to play safe. I don't think at any time I was rude or unprofessional with you so I don't think you're talking about me, lol. I do know, i don't know how to spell half the sh!t we're talking about let alone even know what any of it means. Which is the reason I have stopped supplementing with DAA.

    PM is on it's way. Even tho the chance of me comprehending it is close to none...
    You've been nothing but great with me and I appreciate it. I don't think DAA does as much as some propose it does in regards to test production and it may cause problems like increased anxiety. There are plenty of other products out there.

    Email sent!
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    Quote Originally Posted by buck6196 View Post
    I did some research before I bought a tub from NP and thought I would give it a run to see if it lived up to the hype.

    I got a wierd headache the seemed to be in the center of my brain, it was constant - not overpowering but strong enough to know something was not right. That was from day one.

    The DAA is now on the shelf until further notice.
    How much were you taking. I think people should start at a very small dose and slowly titrate up.

    I am planning to run DAA on-cycle with my Havoc and tren cycle to see if it helps shutdown. Will be running it with p5p, b12 and IGF-2 (for l-dopa source).
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerouStyle View Post
    How much were you taking. I think people should start at a very small dose and slowly titrate up.

    I am planning to run DAA on-cycle with my Havoc and tren cycle to see if it helps shutdown. Will be running it with p5p, b12 and IGF-2 (for l-dopa source).
    Adding 200mg of B6 to that stack would be a good idea.
    Taste the rainbow.
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    I am using it as a bridge between a Osta-sarm cycle and a S4 cycle. I like it. No negative sides yet for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    my biggest concern is does test levels fall off the chart after using. lol-do you need a pct for daa?
    this is not like taking an exogenous steroid which causes suppression while you are taking it and then when you stop you stay suppressed

    this is something that does the opposite, and after discontinuation i would expect levels to simply return to normal. just like with SERMs and AIs which also work via upregulation of the HPTa
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubsnt3 View Post
    It is actually good science. No studies have been performed for the safety in humans.. DAA is a PROVEN EXITOTOXIN with agonist activity at the NMDA receptor.. And NMDA toxicity is not someones theory but proven science.. You are saying to ignore both anecdotal reports and available scientific literature because it is not "fact." ]

    the term excititoxin is really a misnomer. It assumes that all agonists of the NMDA receptor are neurotoxic no matter what the concentration. That obvoiusly is not true

    Lack of NMDA agonists would surely **** your brain up as you can well imagine. Too much can be kill neurons. The question here is are we reaching the level of d-aspartic acid in the brain that is dangerous. There is no evidence that we are
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    the term excititoxin is really a misnomer. It assumes that all agonists of the NMDA receptor are neurotoxic no matter what the concentration. That obvoiusly is not true

    Lack of NMDA agonists would surely **** your brain up as you can well imagine. Too much can be kill neurons. The question here is are we reaching the level of d-aspartic acid in the brain that is dangerous. There is no evidence that we are
    but is there any evidence we are NOT
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    neuroscientist on anabolicminds............

    why do u even have any interest in daa... i bet you could make test in your sink..
    first of all, the fact that he is a neuroscientist is probably why he is interested in DAA.. Particularly because DAA involves his exact area of specialization

    second of all, he is not a chemist. neuroscientists cant synthesize jack squat in the lab, that is not what they do. that is more up my alley
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    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    but is there any evidence we are NOT
    no there isnt. but that essentially can be said for the majority of supplement ingredients out there. Even some drugs, which have only been studied for relatively short term safety

    dont expect anyone to do a study to see what DAA usage does to someone after 50 years. and if someone does this study I will be dead by the time the results are in anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    no there isnt. but that essentially can be said for the majority of supplement ingredients out there. Even some drugs, which have only been studied for relatively short term safety

    dont expect anyone to do a study to see what DAA usage does to someone after 50 years. and if someone does this study I will be dead by the time the results are in anyway.
    Along with half of the DAA users neurons!
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    i wish i was a chemist...........
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Along with half of the DAA users neurons!
    there is evidence that DAA makes you smarter y'know. so i think all of us users will be kicking all non users ass in chess at the senior center



    Amino Acids. 2010 May;38(5):1561-9. Epub 2009 Nov 5.
    Evidence for the involvement of D-aspartic acid in learning and memory of rat.
    Topo E, Soricelli A, Di Maio A, D'Aniello E, Di Fiore MM, D'Aniello A.

    Laboratory of Animal Physiology and Evolution, Stazione Zoologica Anton Dohrn, Villa Comunale, 80121, Naples, Italy. enza.topo@szn.it
    Abstract
    D-Aspartic acid (D-Asp) is an endogenous amino acid present in neuroendocrine systems. Here, we report evidence that D-Asp in the rat is involved in learning and memory processes. Oral administration of sodium D-aspartate (40 mM) for 12-16 days improved the rats' cognitive capability to find a hidden platform in the Morris water maze system. Two sessions per day for three consecutive days were performed in two groups of 12 rats. One group was treated with Na-D-aspartate and the other with control. A significant increase in the cognitive effect was observed in the treated group compared to controls (two-way ANOVA with repeated measurements: F ((2, 105)) = 57.29; P value < 0.001). Five further sessions of repeated training, involving a change in platform location, also displayed a significant treatment effect [F ((2, 84)) = 27.62; P value < 0.001]. In the hippocampus of treated rats, D-Asp increased by about 2.7-fold compared to controls (82.5 +/- 10.0 vs. the 30.6 +/- 5.4 ng/g tissue; P < 0.0001). Moreover, 20 randomly selected rats possessing relatively high endogenous concentrations of D-Asp in the hippocampus were much faster in reaching the hidden platform, an event suggesting that their enhanced cognitive capability was functionally related to the high levels of D-Asp. The correlation coefficient calculated in the 20 rats was R = -0.916 with a df of 18; P < 0.001. In conclusion, this study provides corroborating evidence that D-aspartic acid plays an important role in the modulation of learning and memory.
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    PA... do you use daa? do you cycle off it ?
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    PA... do you use daa? do you cycle off it ?

    i used it for about 6 months straight then cycled off because i started taking something else that in conjunction with the daa caused stomach upset. now i am back taking the daa. glad you reminded me cuz i forgot to mix my morning dose (must be those dead neurons, eh?)
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    fu*ck ........... im confused .... all i want is my nuts to be huge again...
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    Could someone please correct me if I am wrong. I glossed over some posts in this thread as the banter was getting a little boring. Despite that I did find the term "E-resume" funny. I will summarise when I think has been concluded in this thread.

    - It seems the arguments in this thread have been down to the definitions. NMDA agonist and excitotoxin have been used interchangeably when they definitely aren't.
    - How much DAA would it take to go from something that stimulates the NMDA receptor to something that is toxic? Nobody knows.
    - Some people prefer not to take a known NMDA receptor agonist in fears of excitoxicity and side effects i.e., guilty until proven innocent.
    - Some don't mind taking it until something proves it is unsafe at x dosage per day i.e., innocent until proven guilty.

    Conclusion, nobody is going to know until more studies are completed. Even if studies were completed they would have to be long term to assess damage on the brain unless the damage showed up a lot sooner than anticipated.

    So, it is simple. User discretion with this type of compound.
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    use daa with formadrol
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    Quote Originally Posted by tas69 View Post
    use daa with formadrol
    I think the new PCT Assist would be a better option with its L-dopa

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    Could someone please correct me if I am wrong. I glossed over some posts in this thread as the banter was getting a little boring. Despite that I did find the term "E-resume" funny. I will summarise when I think has been concluded in this thread.

    - It seems the arguments in this thread have been down to the definitions. NMDA agonist and excitotoxin have been used interchangeably when they definitely aren't.
    - How much DAA would it take to go from something that stimulates the NMDA receptor to something that is toxic? Nobody knows.
    - Some people prefer not to take a known NMDA receptor agonist in fears of excitoxicity and side effects i.e., guilty until proven innocent.
    - Some don't mind taking it until something proves it is unsafe at x dosage per day i.e., innocent until proven guilty.

    Conclusion, nobody is going to know until more studies are completed. Even if studies were completed they would have to be long term to assess damage on the brain unless the damage showed up a lot sooner than anticipated.

    So, it is simple. User discretion with this type of compound.
    Pretty much a perfect summary. If people want to use it, they should, if they don't, they shouldn't.

    Studies haven't been shown that daa causes excitotoxicity, but yes, studies have also not shown that it doesn't. Because of that I don't think it is right to keep calling it an excitotoxin. One can easily make the argument that increased protein, and therefore amino acid, consumption could increase neurotransmitter synthesis which should cause increased excitotoxicity. And with no studies proving that wrong, I think we should all stop taking protein
  

  
 

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