D Aspartic Acid & Negative side effects

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    And just to address this direct attack on me. I'm asking an honest question as somebody that has a PhD in neuroscience. I do not work for or rep any company nor do I believe anything that anybody says without seeing studies that back it up. So I find your accusation of me being a "retard" to be quite funny and await you actually addressing my question.
    Sorry, I don't mean to sound rude.. But having a PhD means no more than you went to school.. Unfortunatly that doesn't mean you have a brain.. That is why companies like Google do IQ tests before hiring people.. Sorry if I am not impressed.. I am an engineer and have a masters degree, does that somehow validate my points more??

    The above studies I posted show that DAA is an NMDA agonist itself, is converted to NMDA, and that excesive NMDA stimulation is excitotoxic.. Until some studies are done on humans I will draw my own conclusions based on the available scientific literature..


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    I have no vested interest and will not be pulled into a name calling match as you have now jumped on board with that one. I have NOT said that DAA is completely safe and everybody should use it.

    This is real easy and let me talk slow so even my "retard" brain can keep up. Can anybody show one single study where DAA causes excitotoxicity?

    I'm asking for my own personal knowledge and don't care if the study was performed in humans, rats or trees. Just one!
    That is like saying "can you show me one study that shows neorotoxicity using Methylenedioxypyrovalerone." No studies have been completed; however, beings it is a norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor we can gather that excesive use is going to produce effects similar to Ritalin, Adderall, etc..

    You have not posted any studies to the contrary and all scientific literature points in the opposite direction so until you produce some safety studies you really have no point.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    I have no vested interest and will not be pulled into a name calling match as you have now jumped on board with that one. I have NOT said that DAA is completely safe and everybody should use it.

    This is real easy and let me talk slow so even my "retard" brain can keep up. Can anybody show one single study where DAA causes excitotoxicity?

    I'm asking for my own personal knowledge and don't care if the study was performed in humans, rats or trees. Just one!
    Actually if you reread my post I did not call you a name. Every PM, and now every post you keep stating you have a Ph.D in neuroscience and just so happen to be a researcher in that field. Which is quite convenient in this circumstance. All due respect but I do not see to many Ph.D visiting a site named AnabolicMinds, nor have the respectful time to do so at 9:30am (CST) on a Friday. Do we really need to post the numerous studies showing N-Methyl-D-A is an excitotoxin? Which DAA converts to, but somehow it is not an excitotoxin any longer?

    If I was so far off base you wouldn't get so defensive and begin providing studies to the contrary.
    The Historic PES Legend

  4. All these long term sides are scaring me.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by dragevo View Post
    All these long term sides are scaring me.
    Honesly noone is saying not to use DAA. I think we are just trying to educate people so that they can make an informed decision on use and possible risks.. Methamphetamine is neorotoxic but some people use it for years and have no long term side effects.. Others do.

    I believe that this thread is about exposing potential effects so that users can make their own decision on the benefits/risk.. Honestly, the test boost that has been shown is hardly enough to produce effects beyond what an AI would. AI tests showed test was raised far beyond what DAA does and there are not the same exitotoxic risks involved.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Actually if you reread my post I did not call you a name. Every PM, and now every post you keep stating you have a Ph.D in neuroscience and just so happen to be a researcher in that field. Which is quite convenient in this circumstance. All due respect but I do not see to many Ph.D visiting a site named AnabolicMinds, nor have the respectful time to do so at 9:30am (CST) on a Friday. Do we really need to post the numerous studies showing N-Methyl-D-A is an excitotoxin? Which DAA converts to, but somehow it is not an excitotoxin any longer?

    If I was so far off base you wouldn't get so defensive and begin providing studies to the contrary.
    The fact that I study glutamatergic neurotransmission every single day is exactly why I am taking the time to address this issue. Just because I do have a PhD does not make my opinions any more valid than yours and I did not state that ever for that intention. Opinions are opinions and your opinion is that I'm a liar and that a straw man debate will somehow prove your point rather than answering my question. So, let me leave on this.

    1) I never once said DAA is safe or should be used by anybody

    2) I never once said DAA does increase test levels and in fact I have yet to see convincing evdidence that it does (those boar testicle studies do little to convince me)

    3) I simply asked if DAA has been shown to cause excitotoxicity because I looked and could not find a single study and thought perhaps you all could point me in the direction of one

    4) When answered with studies that did not actually answer my question, I said why they did not and asked again

    So everybody have a wonderful day. I need to get back to my imaginary job with my imaginary degree.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by bubsnt3 View Post
    Honesly noone is saying not to use DAA. I think we are just trying to educate people so that they can make an informed decision on use and possible risks.. Methamphetamine is neorotoxic but some people use it for years and have no long term side effects.. Others do.

    I believe that this thread is about exposing potential effects so that users can make their own decision on the benefits/risk.. Honestly, the test boost that has been shown is hardly enough to produce effects beyond what an AI would. AI tests showed test was raised far beyond what DAA does and there are not the same exitotoxic risks involved.
    I agree

    I started this thread after the whole NMDA issue was brought up several times in random DAA threads, but were quickly ignored. I myself ignored them till I was set to run a long cycle of DAA and a certain member took the time to explain to possible side effects.

    I'm very glad I was made aware of what I could do to myself and that's why I started this thread, so other could be aware. I could care less if some kills their body with supplements, steroids or drugs. It's their body go for it. I just don't want to see anyone use something while they're unaware of the sides....


  8. Quote Originally Posted by Young Gotti View Post
    just expected to see some of the stuff i was reading in reviews.....alpha male feeling, overall well being increased, leaning and hardening, possibly some strength gains
    What I'm simply getting at is that if your total test is say, 500 ng/dL. That's about middle of the road in terms of healthy test levels. If it increases by a third, you're total test going up by a third leads to 667 ng/dL, which is still about middle of the road in terms of healthy test levels.

    In the end, it's only going to help increase test levels a bit. I think Bubsnt hit the nail on the head. It's an excitotoxin, which may raise test levels a little bit. I have a feeling that in a few years this substance will be like creatine monohydrate to a lesser degree. Some people love it, some people only get side effects, and some people are 'non-responders'.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    What I'm simply getting at is that if your total test is say, 500 ng/dL. That's about middle of the road in terms of healthy test levels. If it increases by a third, you're total test going up by a third leads to 667 ng/dL, which is still about middle of the road in terms of healthy test levels.

    In the end, it's only going to help increase test levels a bit. I think Bubsnt hit the nail on the head. It's an excitotoxin, which may raise test levels a little bit. I have a feeling that in a few years this substance will be like creatine monohydrate to a lesser degree. Some people love it, some people only get side effects, and some people are 'non-responders'.
    What about this?

    MORE Testosterone? †
    You bet. The key ingredient in ----, D-Aspartic Acid, has been clinically demonstrated to increase mens' natural testosterone production by up to 84% in less than 2 weeks. †

  10. Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    I'm looking at a different study, a different dosage, and a different sampling time.
    Cool

  11. Well I'm not a PhD and I don't have a Masters - don't even have a batchelors.

    I'm just a dumb old Visigoth who likes to dead lift and squat - I'm very horny but not too smart. I might have three brain cells that always occupied with either sex, food, or motorcycles.

    Soooo ...

    Here's the deal ...

    Can someone explain this stuff in simple idiot's terms?

    I looked up "NMDA RECEPTOR" on Wikipedia and the definition there made my head hurt.

    So what are the possibilities here? Is it possible that DAA ...

    A. Will make me stupider? (I know - prolly impossible but I have to ask)
    B. Will make me an angry person ... or an excessively happy one ... or will it make me give my grandkids the "stink eye" and talk about how their generation sucks?
    C. Will it turn me homo?
    D. Will it make me fantasize about Rosanne Barr?

    Basically - what's being alleged here as potential sides?

    Anyone out there who can explain this in layman's terms?

  12. Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post
    Well I'm not a PhD and I don't have a Masters - don't even have a batchelors.

    I'm just a dumb old Visigoth who likes to dead lift and squat - I'm very horny but not too smart. I might have three brain cells that always occupied with either sex, food, or motorcycles.

    Soooo ...

    Here's the deal ...

    Can someone explain this stuff in simple idiot's terms?

    I looked up "NMDA RECEPTOR" on Wikipedia and the definition there made my head hurt.

    So what are the possibilities here? Is it possible that DAA ...

    A. Will make me stupider? (I know - prolly impossible but I have to ask)
    B. Will make me an angry person ... or an excessively happy one ... or will it make me give my grandkids the "stink eye" and talk about how their generation sucks?
    C. Will it turn me homo?
    D. Will it make me fantasize about Rosanne Barr?

    Basically - what's being alleged here as potential sides?

    Anyone out there who can explain this in layman's terms?
    Aspartic Acid Aspartate is a neurotransmitter in the brain, facilitating information from one neuron to another. Too much aspartate allows an influx of calcium into the brain cells, triggering an excessive amount of free radicals which kill the cells. Aspartate is referred to as an "excitotoxin" because of the nerve cell damage that it causes. Many chronic illnesses have been attributed to long term excitotoxin exposure, including multiple sclerosis, ALS, memory loss, hormonal problems, hearing loss, epilepsy, Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, hypoglycemia, dementia, brain lesions and neuroendocrine disorders. In 1971, Dr. John Olney, neuroscientist and one of the world's foremost experts on excitotoxins, informed G.D. Searle that his research had revealed that aspartic acid caused holes in the brains of mice.

    And a little more complicated but still easy to follow explaination...

    Glutamate receptors are excitatory - they literally excite the neurons containing them into electrical and cellular activity. There are 4 main classes of glutamate receptors: the NMDA (N-methyl-D-aspartate) receptor, the quisqualate/AMPA receptor, the kainite receptor, and the AMPA metabotropic receptor. Each of these receptors has a different structure, and has somewhat different effects on the neurons they excite. The NMDA is the most common glutamate receptor in the brain (13). The NMDA, kainite and quisqualate receptors all serve to open ion channels. The NMDA receptor is the most complex, and has more diverse and potentially devastating effects on receiving neurons than the others. When glutamate or aspartate attaches to the NMDA receptor, it triggers a flow of sodium (Na) and calcium (Ca) ions into the neuron, and an outflow of potassium (K). It is this ion exchange that triggers the neuron to "fire" an electric current across its membrane surface, in turn triggering a neurotransmitter release to whatever other neurons the just-fired neuron synaptically contacts. The kainite and AMPA ion channels primarily permit the exchange of Na and K ions, and generally cause briefer and weaker electric currents than NMDA receptors. Thus, when glutamate/aspartate acts through kainite/AMPA receptors, it is weakly excitatory, but when glutamate/aspartate act through NMDA receptors, they are strongly excitatory. (14) NMDA receptor activation is the basis of long-term potentiation, which in turn is the basis for memory consolidation and long-term memory formation. (14) After the neuron has fired, membrane pumps then pump the excess sodium and calcium back outside the neuron. (15) This is necessary to return the neuron to its resting, non-firing state. Neurons in a resting state prefer to keep calcium inside the cell at a level only 1/10,000 of that outside, with sodium levels 1/10 as high as outside the neuron (15) These pumps require ATP energy to function, and if they cannot keep up or if neuronal energy production is low for any reason the pumps may, gradually fail, allowing excessive calcium/sodium build up inside the cell which is disasterous (exitotoxic) (1-3)

  13. Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    What I'm simply getting at is that if your total test is say, 500 ng/dL. That's about middle of the road in terms of healthy test levels. If it increases by a third, you're total test going up by a third leads to 667 ng/dL, which is still about middle of the road in terms of healthy test levels.

    In the end, it's only going to help increase test levels a bit. I think Bubsnt hit the nail on the head. It's an excitotoxin, which may raise test levels a little bit. I have a feeling that in a few years this substance will be like creatine monohydrate to a lesser degree. Some people love it, some people only get side effects, and some people are 'non-responders'.
    i agree, it almost can be said with anything in the supplement world, some stuff works for ppl some people it doesn't, and it could have increased test, without bloodwork i'm not sure, all the tests show it does and a lot of people love the stuff, so i'm not doubting that, just didn't see any noticeable differences and in most cases, people see something
    Mind and Muscle Rep, mindandmuscle.com
    Selling APS, LG, Liquid Labs, Iforce, ALRI, and HI Tech products
    use code: bktee at checkout for a free t-shirt

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Young Gotti View Post
    i agree, it almost can be said with anything in the supplement world, some stuff works for ppl some people it doesn't, and it could have increased test, without bloodwork i'm not sure, all the tests show it does and a lot of people love the stuff, so i'm not doubting that, just didn't see any noticeable differences and in most cases, people see something
    Yeah, that's the catch 22.

    As a consumer, you don't actually care about increasing your test levels. It's whether or not they carry over to muscle/strength gains in the gym.

  15. This really is a dose-dependency topic and until we have peer-reviewed proof of what an excitotoxic dose is... it's just a crap shoot.

    Also, duration makes all the difference. If it's recommended to take DAA at 3g a day for 14 days but it takes 90 days for excitotoxicity to occur at this dose... you get my drift.

    ****, how much DAA is even bioavailable/excreted after oral ingestion of a 3g dose?

    The studies just aren't there for anyone to feel 100% safe taking DAA - but as someone else mentioned a good deal of people take all sorts of narcotics that are known to be harmful.

    What if DAA turns out to prevent all forms of brain cancer? No one has any clue at this point.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    What I'm simply getting at is that if your total test is say, 500 ng/dL. That's about middle of the road in terms of healthy test levels. If it increases by a third, you're total test going up by a third leads to 667 ng/dL, which is still about middle of the road in terms of healthy test levels.

    In the end, it's only going to help increase test levels a bit. I think Bubsnt hit the nail on the head. It's an excitotoxin, which may raise test levels a little bit. I have a feeling that in a few years this substance will be like creatine monohydrate to a lesser degree. Some people love it, some people only get side effects, and some people are 'non-responders'.
    ok, bob-i have a question for you. will it effect someone like me, who has been on trt for a considerable amount of time, differently than someone who starts out with normal range test level.
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  17. Quote Originally Posted by obvious View Post
    This really is a dose-dependency topic and until we have peer-reviewed proof of what an excitotoxic dose is... it's just a crap shoot.

    Also, duration makes all the difference. If it's recommended to take DAA at 3g a day for 14 days but it takes 90 days for excitotoxicity to occur at this dose... you get my drift.

    ****, how much DAA is even bioavailable/excreted after oral ingestion of a 3g dose?

    The studies just aren't there for anyone to feel 100% safe taking DAA - but as someone else mentioned a good deal of people take all sorts of narcotics that are known to be harmful.

    What if DAA turns out to prevent all forms of brain cancer? No one has any clue at this point.
    unfortunatly that is where the whole problem lies.. No one know the safety of the product because it hasn't been tested.. One way or the other. Companies just picked it up because it increased gnrh, lh, fsh, and test.. And they expect me to test it for safety.. At least if I take meth it has years of studies and user feedback I can refer to...

  18. Where is Pat Arnold?

    Furthermore, i think Dr. Dana Houser is doing a self study on DAA at 3gms a day over a 12 month period. Maybe he could chime in??

    I've taken DAA with Clomid during pct. worked outwell, but i was also incorporating AI as a down stroke im my pct, so there was overlap. therefore, i can only speculate on DAA effects.

    i need to run DAA solo for 14 days, and will post.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by mikeshark00 View Post
    Where is Pat Arnold?

    Furthermore, i think Dr. Dana Houser is doing a self study on DAA at 3gms a day over a 12 month period. Maybe he could chime in??

    I've taken DAA with Clomid during pct. worked outwell, but i was also incorporating AI as a down stroke im my pct, so there was overlap. therefore, i can only speculate on DAA effects.

    i need to run DAA solo for 14 days, and will post.
    Pat has already chimed in. Provided us what he could.

    I doubt Dinoii is taking brain biopsies looking for damage, but I could be wrong.
    The Historic PES Legend

  20. This is without a doubt one of the best/informative threads to show up on this site in a long time. Simply awesome...

  21. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    ok, bob-i have a question for you. will it effect someone like me, who has been on trt for a considerable amount of time, differently than someone who starts out with normal range test level.
    It might.

    DAA occurs naturally within the body. If low amounts of the necessary enzyme for natural production exist, this might be a possible outlet for increasing test levels.

    The purpose of any supplement is to obtain sufficient amounts of a desired substrate, which cannot be obtained by normal diet.

    Look at ZMA. Unless you have a zinc or magnesium deficiency, the results are quite hampered.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    It might.

    DAA occurs naturally within the body. If low amounts of the necessary enzyme for natural production exist, this might be a possible outlet for increasing test levels.

    The purpose of any supplement is to obtain sufficient amounts of a desired substrate, which cannot be obtained by normal diet.

    Look at ZMA. Unless you have a zinc or magnesium deficiency, the results are quite hampered.
    so becuase my natural test has and is shutdown, the benefits of daa could possibly be more beneficial? possibly act like hcg? the difference between someone on pct, and someone on trt taking daa, is that i am continuing to inject test while taking the daa. even though in both cases shutdown has occured, and a 1/3rd increase in natural test would be very beneficial, it seems to me that it would be even more advantageous on top of the injected test, no facts involved, just my thoughts.
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  23. Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    Dana's pretty hardcore, so it's tough to say.
    Ha... that's why i put in the disclaimer!
    The Historic PES Legend

  24. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    so becuase my natural test has and is shutdown, the benefits of daa could possibly be more beneficial? possibly act like hcg? the difference between someone on pct, and someone on trt taking daa, is that i am continuing to inject test while taking the daa. even though in both cases shutdown has occured, and a 1/3rd increase in natural test would be very beneficial, it seems to me that it would be even more advantageous on top of the injected test, no facts involved, just my thoughts.
    It really depends on what metabolic mechanisms are limiting your natural test production. Throwing in injected test complexes things a bit, as well.

    If you are injecting test, steroidogenesis (making pregnenolone from cholesterol) starts to shut down. That's why LDL levels tend to go up.

  25. http://www . lean bulk . com/forum/

    ask-dr-houser/13065-daa-toxicity-hpta.html


    Won't link so copy paste and put the spaces together.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by TheLastRonin View Post
    http://www . lean bulk . com/forum/

    ask-dr-houser/13065-daa-toxicity-hpta.html


    Won't link so copy paste and put the spaces together.
    yeah, those people don't have a vested interest in any DAA products

    I would go give my input there but don't have time or attention for multiple forums.. There are some obvious problems with their input, as well as, the aspartame studies quoted..
    1. Aspartame is %40 L-DAA, given a 165lb person at 75mg/kg that is still only 2/3 of the dose of DAA that people are taking.
    2. Aspartame requires metabolism which is a rate limiting step for DAA production. This means that taking equal amounts of DAA and % wise of Aspartame are going to cause far different blood concentrations of DAA. Aspartame will not reach the same blood plasma level that straight DAA does even if you take the equivilant same amount
    3. DAA is an NMDA agonist itself
    4. Because of the higher blood concentrations of DAA, more is free to convert to NMDA at any given time. Addionally, given the secretion rate of DAA it is possible that you would never reach the blood acumulation level of DAA with Aspartame that you would with DAA supplementation

    Comparing Aspartame to DAA is like comparing L-lysine-D-amphetamine to D-amphetamine. It is far easier to reach nerotoxicity with an equivilant dose of D-amphet than with L-lysine-D-amphetamine

  27. Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    Yeah, that's the catch 22.

    As a consumer, you don't actually care about increasing your test levels. It's whether or not they carry over to muscle/strength gains in the gym.
    or the bedroom
    Mind and Muscle Rep, mindandmuscle.com
    Selling APS, LG, Liquid Labs, Iforce, ALRI, and HI Tech products
    use code: bktee at checkout for a free t-shirt
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