You asked for it. Now its here. Oral Sustain Alpha Liqua-Vade!

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    From experience I definately like the oral version better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    Guys still like to use Sustain during cycle... its pretty common to see reports of a higher libido, bigger ejaculations, and better erections... all things that start to fade after being on cycle for a couple months.

    -Eric
    Huh, sounds good. I would like to run it during cycle (however it will be a 12 weeker along with the PCT) and I am not sure that I can spend all that money. But I would love to do it and see the effects on cycle. Sounds like a winner to me though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    Why do you say its bad for you?

    -Eric
    I honestly haven't done much research on this, I just know that I'm allergic to it and have heard about the possibility of food colorings causing tumors, ADD and stuff. Food coloring is just something I try and avoid when possible. The oral version does sound like it's gonna work well though. I've used your TD sustain alpha before and have to admit I was pleased with the results. If the new oral version is better, then it should be a solid product!
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    I'm not sure if I can post this but check out Eric on Super Human Radio explaining the delivery system of oral Sustain Alpha.

    Episode #382

    http://www.superhumanradio.com/mp3/player.htm
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty33 View Post
    the TRS stack without the toco-8 will still be effective or not as much? does it need all 3 to hold synergy
    You should still get excellent results. All three products work great together, but all three are also amazing products in their own right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdrannin1 View Post
    I'm not sure if I can post this but check out Eric on Super Human Radio explaining the delivery system of oral Sustain Alpha.

    Episode #382

    http://www.superhumanradio.com/mp3/player.htm
    This was a VERY good interview. Definitely worth the listen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmw8591 View Post
    This was a VERY good interview. Definitely worth the listen.
    Eric sure drops the knowledge bombs eh?
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    Ill be worm shottin in a couple weeks.....taking SA on cycle as well as off
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    You're really selling 99% resv at $10/gram? RLY? I find your products ok, but 100mg x 50 units for $50? Are you alluding to avoiding first-pass metabolism? If so, how? That price is absurd. You can buy micronized resv from revgenetics or the synthetic (resvida) from costco for $3.30 a gram.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    There are multiple ways to dose Sustain Alpha Liqua-Vade –
    the worm in a glass method is creeping me out...
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    Quote Originally Posted by WIULifter View Post
    Ill be worm shottin in a couple weeks.....taking SA on cycle as well as off
    That's a good idea mate!

    Quote Originally Posted by riskarb View Post
    You're really selling 99% resv at $10/gram? RLY? I find your products ok, but 100mg x 50 units for $50? Are you alluding to avoiding first-pass metabolism? If so, how? That price is absurd. You can buy micronized resv from revgenetics or the synthetic (resvida) from costco for $3.30 a gram.
    It's not cheap to produce SA. You're forgetting the delivery system we use to enhance resveratrol's absorption and the 7,8 benzaflavone component. BTW it's $40 right now with our discount code NEWSUSTAIN
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    yeah some Justin geek told me to take Tartrate on cycle.....what does he know
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    I like the option of liquid or dermal.

    Personally,
    I like transdermals. I know they are very effective.

    Please dont discontinue it.....

    I am getting very good results from the Liquid SA which i started on Oct. 13th, switching from dermal SA.

    Libido is still waaay up, as well as load size.

    Website looks pretty darn good guys.
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    Have there been any reports of upset stomach?

    EDIT: Are the results from the Tests (hCG claims) in yet? I've read several articles that claim 7,8 benzoflavone to be carcinogenic in humans. Clearly, I have more research to do now.
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    appreciate the kind words man

    Have there been any reports of upset stomach?

    EDIT: Are the results from the Tests (hCG claims) in yet? I've read several articles that claim 7,8 benzoflavone to be carcinogenic in humans. Clearly, I have more research to do now.
    Not sure if youve read the article on our home site, in case you havent here it is.

    October 14th, 2009 – A search on Google for 7,8-benzoflavone yields a link to a blogger who appears to have the opinion that 7,8-benzoflavone is a dangerous carcinogenic substance. They based this opinion on several studies which combined high levels of well known cancer causing substances, with 7,8-benzoflavove. They provided no references showing 7,8-benzoflavone is a carcinogenic substance in and of itself.

    The first reference discusses the carcinogen benzo[a]pyrene as being highly carcinogenic and that when combined with 7,8-benzoflavone, this can increase the rate of tumor formation. While this is true, this particular study found zero tumor formation when 7,8-benzoflavone was used alone, and it in fact inhibited tumor formation caused by the more potent carcinogen 7,12-dimethylbenz(a)anthracene (DMBA), thus offering a net protective effect against tumor formation. (1)

    Other studies have also shown 7,8-benzoflavone has protective effects against cancer by inducing 2-hydroxylation of estrogens, thus increasing the clearance of estrogens and reducing cancer risk. (2-4)

    Isolating flavonoids and carcinogens together in an in-vitro environment is a popular cancer research practice for studying the metabolism of cancer causing substances. Virtually all natural flavonoids (exp., quercetin, tangeretin, chrysin or nobiletin) have been found to negatively or positively metabolize carcinogenic chemicals in special test tube environments. However the research clearly shows a net anti-cancer effect from naturally occurring flavones. (5-7)

    References are listed after the article on the site
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    Quote Originally Posted by WIULifter View Post
    appreciate the kind words man
    nice coupon!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Lungz View Post
    Have there been any reports of upset stomach?

    EDIT: Are the results from the Tests (hCG claims) in yet? I've read several articles that claim 7,8 benzoflavone to be carcinogenic in humans. Clearly, I have more research to do now.

    Yeah, clearly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristofer68SS View Post
    Yeah, clearly.
    You can keep your snide and sarcastic remarks to yourself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Lungz View Post
    You can keep your snide and sarcastic remarks to yourself.
    lol.

    Will do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Lungz View Post
    Have there been any reports of upset stomach?

    EDIT: Are the results from the Tests (hCG claims) in yet? I've read several articles that claim 7,8 benzoflavone to be carcinogenic in humans. Clearly, I have more research to do now.
    No upset stomach reports... plus our Resveratrol is emodin free... which is a compound that generally causes gastrointestinal upset with cheaper extracts of resveratrol.


    hCG claims -

    "We still aren't confident that on cycle Sustain will prevent shutdown enough to cause desensitization during a longer cycle. If you plan on going longer than 6 weeks then its best to use hCG to be safe.

    The Sustain is certainly doing something positive since its increasing "load size" and general libido... but our blood tests on LH & FSH from on cycle tester are all over the place.. are are not consistent enough to show that Sustain Alpha has strong enough effect on LH & FSH to prevent suppression.

    But now with Oral SA we will have to do more testing."


    -Eric
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    Quote Originally Posted by WIULifter View Post
    yeah some Justin geek told me to take Tartrate on cycle.....what does he know
    That dude's an ass

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Lungz View Post
    Have there been any reports of upset stomach?

    EDIT: Are the results from the Tests (hCG claims) in yet? I've read several articles that claim 7,8 benzoflavone to be carcinogenic in humans. Clearly, I have more research to do now.
    I've not experienced any upset stomach and I've used it for around a month and I haven't had a problem. I remember I used 6 oxo extreme and it used to just kill me. I was scared to leave the house lol. I don't think anyone will have a problem to be honest; there's no emodin in our resveratrol.
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    Good deal - thanks for answering my questions.
    What sort of testing will you be doing for the oral-SA? I am going to be strating it in the next few weeks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    No upset stomach reports... plus our Resveratrol is emodin free... which is a compound that generally causes gastrointestinal upset with cheaper extracts of resveratrol.


    hCG claims -

    "We still aren't confident that on cycle Sustain will prevent shutdown enough to cause desensitization during a longer cycle. If you plan on going longer than 6 weeks then its best to use hCG to be safe.

    The Sustain is certainly doing something positive since its increasing "load size" and general libido... but our blood tests on LH & FSH from on cycle tester are all over the place.. are are not consistent enough to show that Sustain Alpha has strong enough effect on LH & FSH to prevent suppression.

    But now with Oral SA we will have to do more testing."


    -Eric
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    Always enjoyed Sustain Alpha, without exception. I certainly like the idea of oral Sustain Alpha, though. Clearly more convenient for me, in terms of dosing/application, apart from the potential to be more potent than the transdermal version. Looking forward to this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdrannin1 View Post
    That's a good idea mate!



    It's not cheap to produce SA. You're forgetting the delivery system we use to enhance resveratrol's absorption and the 7,8 benzaflavone component. BTW it's $40 right now with our discount code NEWSUSTAIN
    How exactly does it increase absorption? Resveratrol is rapidly absorbed orally, but quickly conjugated. Would you mind elaborating on your "enhanced absorption" bullsh*t? You need a ton of resv to overwhelm the cascade, or do a buccal delivery. Tween, HPMC and PEG have been used effectively, but your product is pure-hype, to put it kindly.

    It's benzOflavone, and it's cheap. $40 for this is a bad-joke.
    Last edited by riskarb; 10-24-2009 at 09:04 PM.
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    do you need to cycle off of this (other than the 5 on 2 off) for a few weeks or is this something that can be run for long periods at a time
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    Quote Originally Posted by srocco112 View Post
    do you need to cycle off of this (other than the 5 on 2 off) for a few weeks or is this something that can be run for long periods at a time
    ran like that, its really up to you when you want to stop taking it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by riskarb View Post
    How exactly does it increase absorption? Resveratrol is rapidly absorbed orally, but quickly conjugated. Would you mind elaborating on your "enhanced absorption" bullsh*t? You need a ton of resv to overwhelm the cascade, or do a buccal delivery. Tween, HPMC and PEG have been used effectively, but your product is pure-hype, to put it kindly.

    It's benzOflavone, and it's cheap. $40 for this is a bad-joke.
    The Liqua-Vade is actually utilizing buccal and sublingual delivery since its being consumed as pre-emuslified formula.

    You are right about the tween, HPMC and PEG... we actually utilize variants of those compounds in our Liqua-Vade formula to enhance delivery, and Ive explained the mechanism in this thread here -
    The Future of Nutrient Delivery - Liqua-Vade

    And more indepth in this interview here


    BTW, the study that examined oral resveratrol absorption in humans (Walle et al, 2004) disolved the oral dose of resveratrol into ethanol, DMSO and glucose water. Its not exactly fair to say that the same absorption would be achieved with a compressed tablet or capsule of resveratrol. (remember, nutrients need to be molecularly dispersed to absorb through epithelial membranes)

    Plus, 7,8-benzoflavone (being more lipophilic than resveratrol) is going to have a harder time dissolving and absorbing through the GI. Liqua-Vade probably shows the most benefit with this ingredient compared to a capsule or tablet.

    -Eric
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Lungz View Post
    Good deal - thanks for answering my questions.
    What sort of testing will you be doing for the oral-SA? I am going to be strating it in the next few weeks.
    Did you test the topical SA with blood tests?

    -Eric
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    The Liqua-Vade is actually utilizing buccal and sublingual delivery since its being consumed as pre-emuslified formula.

    You are right about the tween, HPMC and PEG... we actually utilize variants of those compounds in our Liqua-Vade formula to enhance delivery, and Ive explained the mechanism in this thread here -
    The Future of Nutrient Delivery - Liqua-Vade

    And more indepth in this interview here

    And you can see how the delivery system works based off the visual schematic here

    BTW, the study that examined oral resveratrol absorption in humans (Walle et al, 2004) disolved the oral dose of resveratrol into ethanol, DMSO and glucose water. Its not exactly fair to say that the same absorption would be achieved with a compressed tablet or capsule of resveratrol. (remember, nutrients need to be molecularly dispersed to absorb through epithelial membranes)

    Plus, 7,8-benzoflavone (being more lipophilic than resveratrol) is going to have a harder time dissolving and absorbing through the GI. Liqua-Vade probably shows the most benefit with this ingredient compared to a capsule or tablet.

    -Eric
    OK Eric, but I don't understand the advantage of this product over a simple buccal formulation involving some micronized resveratrol and some tween, HPMC or PEG. There is a reliable source of micronized 98% resveratrol out there charging $3.00/gram. Miralax is dirt cheap. 100mg is subtherapeutic for an oral dose. Your resveratrol isn't micronized, and there is nothing in the links you provide that shows superiorty of this "liqua-vade" to any of the conventional means of increasing AUC on an oral-dose.

    You're competing with quality micronized product at ~$3.30 per gram (micronized resv + carrier). Feel free to charge what the market will bear, but elasticity of demand aside, this product is extremely overpriced. You cannot compete with a micronized product on bioavailability.
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    Interesting debate but what about the 7,8 benzoflavone? Seems like you're forgetting that to focus on resveratrol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by riskarb View Post
    OK Eric, but I don't understand the advantage of this product over a simple buccal formulation involving some micronized resveratrol and some tween, HPMC or PEG. There is a reliable source of micronized 98% resveratrol out there charging $3.00/gram. Miralax is dirt cheap. 100mg is subtherapeutic for an oral dose. Your resveratrol isn't micronized, and there is nothing in the links you provide that shows superiorty of this "liqua-vade" to any of the conventional means of increasing AUC on an oral-dose.

    You're competing with quality micronized product at ~$3.30 per gram (micronized resv + carrier). Feel free to charge what the market will bear, but elasticity of demand aside, this product is extremely overpriced. You cannot compete with a micronized product on bioavailability.
    There is no advantage to micronization when resveratrol is dissolved in solution like it is in our Liqua-Vade. Liqua-Vade is technically a micro-dispersion, which is better than micronized powder and doesn't carry the same wetting problems.

    You cant make Liqua-Vade with just Tween, HPMC and PEG. You might get better absorption than a tablet with a concoction like this, but it will taste like complete ass, and it wont be optimized.

    Remember, the buccal cavity can only absorb so much powder. Liqua-Vade is absorbing through the buccal, eso****us and GI walls very efficiently.

    -Eric
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    There is no advantage to micronization when resveratrol is dissolved in solution like it is in our Liqua-Vade. Liqua-Vade is technically a micro-dispersion, which is better than micronized powder and doesn't carry the same wetting problems.

    You cant make Liqua-Vade with just Tween, HPMC and PEG. You might get better absorption than a tablet with a concoction like this, but it will taste like complete ass, and it wont be optimized.

    Remember, the buccal cavity can only absorb so much powder. Liqua-Vade is absorbing through the buccal, eso****us and GI walls very efficiently.

    -Eric
    Obviously buccal-delivery is limited, but you're swallowing the remainder. Your comments regarding micronized resveratrol are 100% false; re: Sirtis data, et al. Please stop with the buzz-words w/o a shred of data. "Optimized" is meaningless here.

    Your product is at a disadvantage to micronized (and 3x the cost) in buccal-delivery, and limited MOA to avoid conjugation on the first-pass. You have no data to show that this stuff is better than HPMC, Tween and/or PEG; and you're using a small amount of HPMC in the mix. Why didn't Sirtis use it if it's so fantastic? You're telling me that a $2B pharma doesn't have access to a product utilized by a couple of guys working out of their home office?

    300mg of micronized resveratrol + HPMC or miralax and you've got a better product at the same price.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasTitan View Post
    Interesting debate but what about the 7,8 benzoflavone? Seems like you're forgetting that to focus on resveratrol.
    The resveratrol is the value in the mix. You certainly cannot make a case for 70% of the value coming from the 7,8 Benzoflavone. OK, granted. They throw in a dubious AI and triple the price. Got it.

    Done here, I've had my say. Hey, if people want to flush $50 on this or a $30 bottle of green tea extract, more power to them. Who doesn't want enhanced blood-flow to the penis for harder erections!

    It's a free country.
    Last edited by riskarb; 10-26-2009 at 03:18 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by riskarb View Post
    Obviously buccal-delivery is limited, but you're swallowing the remainder. Your comments regarding micronized resveratrol are 100% false; re: Sirtis data, et al. Please stop with the buzz-words w/o a shred of data. "Optimized" is meaningless here.

    Your product is at a disadvantage to micronized (and 3x the cost) in buccal-delivery, and limited MOA to avoid conjugation on the first-pass. You have no data to show that this stuff is better than HPMC, Tween and/or PEG; and you're using a small amount of HPMC in the mix. Why didn't Sirtis use it if it's so fantastic? You're telling me that a $2B pharma doesn't have access to a product utilized by a couple of guys working out of their home office?

    300mg of micronized resveratrol + HPMC or miralax and you've got a better product at the same price.
    Quote Originally Posted by riskarb View Post
    The resveratrol is the value in the mix. You certainly cannot make a case for 70% of the value coming from the 7,8 Benzoflavone. OK, granted. They throw in a dubious AI and triple the price. Got it.

    Done here, I've had my say. Hey, if people want to flush $50 on this or a $30 bottle of green tea extract, more power to them. Who doesn't want enhanced blood-flow to the penis for harder erections!

    It's a free country.
    Dont run off. This is interesting. You do sound PMSish though.

    Follow up. Did you go out and buy a coke machine and syrups to make your own soda because 3-4 dollars for a 12 pack is a ripoff too?
  35. Ron Paul... phuck yeah!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasTitan View Post
    Dont run off. This is interesting. You do sound PMSish though.

    Follow up. Did you go out and buy a coke machine and syrups to make your own soda because 3-4 dollars for a 12 pack is a ripoff too?
    Are you wearing a headband, Mr Simmons?

    No, I go buy a coke from Safeway for $0.60 and save the $1.20. Actually, I am made of money and it's still a retarded markup.
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    Dude, its fine to disagree but you're just a whiny bitch about this. Being made of money doesn't give you status or class.
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    primordial performance is a highly reputable company i trust this to be a great product. shouldnt knock it before you try it.
    Athletic Xtreme Team REP
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasTitan View Post
    Dude, its fine to disagree but you're just a whiny bitch about this. Being made of money doesn't give you status or class.
    People that talk about having money, usually dont have it.........

    Same goes for people who "look" like they have money....Usually they are ass-deep in debt.........

    just sayin
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    Is it easier or harder to build muscle when you are made of money? How swoll does money get compared to muscles?

    Sorry, couldn't resist.
    ...GMG760 Version 2.0 ... Back from the dead.
  40. Ron Paul... phuck yeah!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasTitan View Post
    Dude, its fine to disagree but you're just a whiny bitch about this. Being made of money doesn't give you status or class.


    I'll admit that it's probably a decent product and w/o a doubt will be more palatable than my micronized + HPMC + Miralax combo. I think PP should contact revgenetics.com and source some micronized powder. Micronized produces a much greater AUC for buccal-delivery. As an end-user I buy from revgenetics, but I have no affiliation with the company. PP could charge $50 and still clear a >50% margin. It's a substantial value-add to offer a product which is palatable.

    I'll stop bitching, and perhaps you can buy some men's clothes.
    Last edited by riskarb; 10-26-2009 at 09:34 PM.
  

  
 

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