EL Whey Cooper. Check it. Why do people ignore it?

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  1. EL Whey Cooper. Check it. Why do people ignore it?




  2. Quote Originally Posted by USPlabsRep View Post
    USPlabsReperson should be on to Chief Chef Bob for populating interest addressing on here tell me, what you think.
    "To your wife you should kiss try today"-Touey

    Brotato's bark brings shakes to the pups in the yard
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Touey View Post
    USPlabsReperson should be on to Chief Chef Bob for populating interest addressing on here tell me, what you think.
    Never drink Whey alone (unless you have a casein allergy) ESPECIALLY after a workout or in the Mornings (or anytime you are supplementing protein powder for food) and NEVER drink only Casien before bed combine it with Whey...

    It shouldn't be a debate....Protein is the single most important substance for muscle building, recovery and immunity, we should listen to the science..

  4. Quote Originally Posted by USPlabsRep View Post
    Never drink Whey alone (unless you have a casein allergy) ESPECIALLY after a workout or in the Mornings (or anytime you are supplementing protein powder for food) and NEVER drink only Casien before bed combine it with Whey...

    It shouldn't be a debate....Protein is the single most important substance for muscle building, recovery and immunity, we should listen to the science..
    Noone will disagree in this day that is the proper protocol am always taking both plus feeling better digestion in the combination.
    "To your wife you should kiss try today"-Touey

    Brotato's bark brings shakes to the pups in the yard

  5. There will be a Coop's corner on this in the near future when I have the time. I'll link back to this thread for further reading.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    There will be a Coop's corner on this in the near future when I have the time. I'll link back to this thread for further reading.
    cooper's corner...drugs or prostitution?

  7. coop has cleaned up the corner. We will now have some view from the before and after shotsName:  images (8).jpg
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    "To your wife you should kiss try today"-Touey

    Brotato's bark brings shakes to the pups in the yard

  8. Is it really that important?. How much of a miniscule difference is it going to make, when considering a persons diet as a whole?.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by USPlabsRep View Post
    <img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=87 803"/>
    Picture doesn't work

  10. Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post
    Picture doesn't work
    It's not a picture, its a link to download a pdf file.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post

    It's not a picture, its a link to download a pdf file.
    Ahh iPhone won't grab it fml

  12. Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Is it really that important?. How much of a miniscule difference is it going to make, when considering a persons diet as a whole?.
    How many shakes do you have a day? If it's 2-4 shakes (supplying 50-100g of dietary protein), the difference is considerable.

    If you're having 1 shake a day, you won't notice changes overnight...but let's say you have 1 shake a day, 365 days a year. That's over 6,500 grams of protein that could have been from a superior source
  13. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
    The Solution's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Touey View Post
    USPlabsReperson should be on to Chief Chef Bob for populating interest addressing on here tell me, what you think.
    Thats why i mix whey with yogurt Best of both worlds for protein sludge/pudding.
    Dont be hating i add greek yogurt in most of my recipes. Way ahead of you there son
    Alan Aragon dropped the hammer on this about 3-4 years ago.
    Scivation/Primaforce Anabolic Minds Rep
    Anabolic Minds Site Rep
    www.anabolicminds.com

  14. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    How many shakes do you have a day? If it's 2-4 shakes (supplying 50-100g of dietary protein), the difference is considerable.

    If you're having 1 shake a day, you won't notice changes overnight...but let's say you have 1 shake a day, 365 days a year. That's over 6,500 grams of protein that could have been from a superior source

    I don't often supplement with protein. When I do I have 1 to 2 protein drinks a day. Normally, I'll eat something else within 30-45 minutes after the protein drink though. I never use it replace a meal, it's always in addition to a meal. Sometimes as a "dessert" to combat boredom of lower carb eating. For instance, after working out, I'll come home have a protein drink, relax a bit on the computer, take a shower and then have some eggs or steak. As far as superior, how much difference is that going to make in the grand scheme of things?. Maybe things like this are more important to say professional bodybuilders, or other competitive athletes but I'm just trying to stay healthy as I age. So I just may have a different perspective as to what is considerable and what is negligible.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    I don't often supplement with protein. When I do I have 1 to 2 protein drinks a day. Normally, I'll eat something else within 30-45 minutes after the protein drink though. I never use it replace a meal, it's always in addition to a meal. Sometimes as a "dessert" to combat boredom of lower carb eating. For instance, after working out, I'll come home have a protein drink, relax a bit on the computer, take a shower and then have some eggs or steak. As far as superior, how much difference is that going to make in the grand scheme of things?. Maybe things like this are more important to say professional bodybuilders, or other competitive athletes but I'm just trying to stay healthy as I age. So I just may have a different perspective as to what is considerable and what is negligible.
    It's not about whether or not you use it for a meal replacement. Regardless of when you consume it (or with what), it's contributing to your daily protein intake

  16. I can't understand why Whey is being crucified, I have used natural HWPI for the past year and my results have been nothing short of impressive. I must admit though my training and nutrition have been on point 95% of the time.

    Perhaps science proves a blend is optimal, it just doesn't seem as though the difference will be noticeable especially when considering one's diet.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Philosophy View Post
    I can't understand why Whey is being crucified, I have used natural HWPI for the past year and my results have been nothing short of impressive. I must admit though my training and nutrition have been on point 95% of the time.

    Perhaps science proves a blend is optimal, it just doesn't seem as though the difference will be noticeable especially when considering one's diet.


    That is what I guess I'm confused about. How much of a difference is it really going to make?. I mean as long as you meet your protein requirements with food and some protein supplementation...They type of protein you eat shouldn't make any negligible difference in "results". I'd be more concerned with the amount.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Philosophy View Post
    I can't understand why Whey is being crucified, I have used natural HWPI for the past year and my results have been nothing short of impressive. I must admit though my training and nutrition have been on point 95% of the time.

    Perhaps science proves a blend is optimal, it just doesn't seem as though the difference will be noticeable especially when considering one's diet.
    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    That is what I guess I'm confused about. How much of a difference is it really going to make?. I mean as long as you meet your protein requirements with food and some protein supplementation...They type of protein you eat shouldn't make any negligible difference in "results". I'd be more concerned with the amount.
    Whey rocks, no one is crucifying it. It's just crazy that every muscle mag boasts about absorption speeds when the study in OP demonstrates that it has zero relevance to anabolism.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post

    Whey rocks, no one is crucifying it. It's just crazy that every muscle mag boasts about absorption speeds when the study in OP demonstrates that it has zero relevance to anabolism.
    That due to it all going to same spot portal circulation into amino acid pool and we use what we need???

  20. Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post
    That due to it all going to same spot portal circulation into amino acid pool and we use what we need???
    I can't understand this post lol

  21. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post

    I can't understand this post lol
    I tend to do that haha.

    Blended or not doesn't all protein go into the amino acid pool. And the body use what is necessary which is why it doesn't matter if its blended protein or not?

  22. Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post
    I tend to do that haha.

    Blended or not doesn't all protein go into the amino acid pool. And the body use what is necessary which is why it doesn't matter if its blended protein or not?
    Now we're getting into "coop's corner" material, but no, it's not so simple. There is a ceiling to protein synthesis, as is there a threshold for significant levels of gluconeogenesis.
  23. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Now we're getting into "coop's corner" material, but no, it's not so simple. There is a ceiling to protein synthesis, as is there a threshold for significant levels of gluconeogenesis.
    Which many do not understand, and some people still abide by that stupid ass muscle and fitness i must throw down a shake and eat a meal 45-60 minutes later when in reality that has no proper benefits to MPS or allowing protein levels to reach their refractory stages at all. Hence Layne's MPS Research regarding less meals and BCAA useage.

    Some people just dont get it and think every 2-3 hours is a must when in reality there is no benefit towards protein synthesis due to the constant overlap of food .
    Scivation/Primaforce Anabolic Minds Rep
    Anabolic Minds Site Rep
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post
    That due to it all going to same spot portal circulation into amino acid pool and we use what we need???
    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I can't understand this post lol
    Do not worry EBF I understand just fine plus now know how it vexing to me some time
    "To your wife you should kiss try today"-Touey

    Brotato's bark brings shakes to the pups in the yard

  25. Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Which many do not understand, and some people still abide by that stupid ass muscle and fitness i must throw down a shake and eat a meal 45-60 minutes later when in reality that has no proper benefits to MPS or allowing protein levels to reach their refractory stages at all. Hence Layne's MPS Research regarding less meals and BCAA useage.

    Some people just dont get it and think every 2-3 hours is a must when in reality there is no benefit towards protein synthesis due to the constant overlap of food .
    So then you would just make your meals larger in order to hit macros and utilize BCAAs between those meals? How many meals? 3-4?
    E-Pharm Rep... PM me with any questions or concerns

  26. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Now we're getting into "coop's corner" material...
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    "To your wife you should kiss try today"-Touey

    Brotato's bark brings shakes to the pups in the yard

  27. Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Thats why i mix whey with yogurt Best of both worlds for protein sludge/pudding.
    Dont be hating i add greek yogurt in most of my recipes. Way ahead of you there son
    Alan Aragon dropped the hammer on this about 3-4 years ago.
    Greek yogurt is enhanced with MPI...

  28. Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Is it really that important?. How much of a miniscule difference is it going to make, when considering a persons diet as a whole?.
    You also have to consider nutritional timing and absorption rates around exercise. I much rather slam some protein soon after my last set to get the wheels turning quickly than chew on a chicken breast and wait 20-30 minutes or so for absorption..

    slam OxyElite Protein or blend of choice (signal the anabolic processes and prep your body for the next meal)
    1-1.5 hours later hit up a nice balanced meal

    if you are doing it correctly, your pre workout meal is meticulously planned to fuel the workout....

    that my friends is a great set up, match and post match game plan for your goals..

  29. Quote Originally Posted by USPlabsRep View Post
    You also have to consider nutritional timing and absorption rates around exercise. I much rather slam some protein soon after my last set to get the wheels turning quickly than chew on a chicken breast and wait 20-30 minutes or so for absorption..

    slam OxyElite Protein or blend of choice (signal the anabolic processes and prep your body for the next meal)
    1-1.5 hours later hit up a nice balanced meal

    if you are doing it correctly, your pre workout meal is meticulously planned to fuel the workout....

    that my friends is a great set up, match and post match game plan for your goals..
    What are you thinking Arnold Schwarzenegger those bros were slamming back on the day tell me, what you think.
    "To your wife you should kiss try today"-Touey

    Brotato's bark brings shakes to the pups in the yard
  30. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
    The Solution's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by USPlabsRep View Post
    You also have to consider nutritional timing and absorption rates around exercise. I much rather slam some protein soon after my last set to get the wheels turning quickly than chew on a chicken breast and wait 20-30 minutes or so for absorption..

    slam OxyElite Protein or blend of choice (signal the anabolic processes and prep your body for the next meal)
    1-1.5 hours later hit up a nice balanced meal

    if you are doing it correctly, your pre workout meal is meticulously planned to fuel the workout....

    that my friends is a great set up, match and post match game plan for your goals..
    So what about food overlap from the pre-workout meal (Which will still be digesting) or the intra-workout BCAA beverage that is instnatly in your bloodstream, why would you need to slam a protein shake right after your workout, that makes 0 sense since protein synthesis is elevated for 24 hours post-workout and even if you dont eat for 20-30 minutes the amount of timing wont make much of a difference due to amino's being present from both scenarios above. Just getting discussion going.

    http://www.jissn.com/content/10/1/5

    When speaking of nutrition for improving body composition or training performance, it's crucial to realize there's an underlying hierarchy of importance. At the top of the hierarchy is total amount of the macronutrients by the end of the day. Distantly below that is the precise timing of those nutrients. With very few exceptions, athletes and active individuals eat multiple times per day. Thus, the majority of their day is spent in the postprandial (fed) rather than a post-absorptive (fasted) state. The vast majority of nutrient timing studies have been done on overnight-fasted subjects put through glycogen depletion protocols, which obviously limits the applicability of the outcomes. Pre-exercise (and/or during-exercise) nutrient intake often has a lingering carry-over effect into the post-exercise period. Throughout the day, there's a constant overlap of meal digestion & nutrient absorption. For this reason, the effectiveness of nutrient timing does not require a high degree of precision.

    The Primary Laws of Nutrient Timing
    The First Law of Nutrient Timing is: hitting your daily macronutrient targets is FAR more important than nutrient timing.
    The Second Law of Nutrient Timing is: hitting your daily macronutrient targets is FAR more important than nutrient timing.
    NOTE: Please do not misinterpret the above to mean that timing is irrelevant. On the contrary, it's very relevant. Timing just happens to have MUCH LESS impact on results than hitting your macro totals for the day. This doesn't diminish the fact that people need to individualize their meal timing so that it maximizes their training performance (& does not hinder it). The latter manipulations vary widely, because people have different training protocols, goals, and tolerances. For example, some people experience their best training performance in an immediately fed state, while others do best in a semi-fasted or fasted state. Endurance athletes who neglect carbohydrate timing will not optimize their training capacity. Strength/power athletes with minimal endurance demands have much less of a concern for this. There's no way to 'universalize' a nutrient timing prescription that applies to everyone & all types of athletes. But to reiterate, macro totals for the day overshadow timing in terms of importance, especially for bodybuilding. If macro totals for the day are not hit, the most precisely neurotic timing of meals is all for sh!t.
    I also suggest you read:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19943985 This study shows there was no difference in weight loss between subjects with high/low meal frequencies.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9155494 Evidence supports that meal frequency has nothing to do with energy in the subjects.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11319656 Yet again, no difference in energy in the subjects compared to 2 meals/d to 6 meals/d.


    And if you want to do some more detailed digging, you can read:



    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1905998 Eur J Clin Nutr. 1991 Mar;45(3):161-9.LinksInfluence of the feeding frequency on nutrient utilization in man: consequences for energy metabolism.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11319656 Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2001 Apr;25(4):519-28.LinksCompared with nibbling, neither gorging nor a morning fast affect short-term energy balance in obese patients in a chamber calorimeter.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18053311 Br J Nutr. 2008 Jun;99(6):1316-21. Epub 2007 Dec 6. LinksAcute effects on metabolism and appetite profile of one meal difference in the lower range of meal frequency.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1905998 Eur J Clin Nutr. 1991 Mar;45(3):161-9.LinksInfluence of the feeding frequency on nutrient utilization in man: consequences for energy metabolism.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11319656 Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2001 Apr;25(4):519-28.LinksCompared with nibbling, neither gorging nor a morning fast affect short-term energy balance in obese patients in a chamber calorimeterhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18053311Br J Nutr. 2008 Jun;99(6):1316-21. Epub 2007 Dec 6. LinksAcute effects on metabolism and appetite profile of one meal difference in the lower range of meal frequency.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9155494 Br J Nutr. 1997 Apr;77 Suppl 1:S57-70. LinksMeal frequency and energy balance.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15806828 Forumn Nutr. 2003;56:126-8.LinksHighlighting the positive impact of increasing feeding frequency on metabolism and weight management.


    [url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9504318/url] Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 1998 Feb;22(2):105-12.LinksEvidence that eating frequency is inversely related to body weight status in male, but not female, non-obese adults reporting valid dietary intakes.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15085170Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2004 May;28(5):653-60. LinksDecreased thermic effect of food after an irregular compared with a regular meal pattern in healthy lean women.


    [url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15220950[/ur] Eur J Clin Nutr. 2004 Jul;58(7):1071-7. LinksRegular meal frequency creates more appropriate insulin sensitivity and lipid profiles compared with irregular meal frequency in healthy lean women.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17228037 Obesity (Silver Spring). 2007 Jan;15(1):100-6. LinksAssociation of eating frequency with body fatness in pre- and postmenopausal women.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15640455 Am J Clin Nutr. 2005 Jan;81(1):16-24. LinksComment in:Am J Clin Nutr. 2005 Jan;81(1):3-4.Beneficial metabolic effects of regular meal frequency on dietary thermogenesis, insulin sensitivity, and fasting lipid profiles in healthy obese women


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10578205 Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 1999 Nov;23(11):1151-9.LinksAcute appetite reduction associated with an increased frequency of eating in obese males.


    he postexercise "anabolic window" is a highly misused & abused concept. Preworkout nutrition all but cancels the urgency, unless you're an endurance athlete with multiple glycogen-depleting events in a single day. Getting down to brass tacks, a relatively recent study (Power et al. 2009) showed that a 45g dose of whey protein isolate takes appx 50 minutes to cause blood AA levels to peak. Resulting insulin levels, which peaked at 40 minutes after ingestion, remained at elevations known to max out the inhibition of muscle protein breakdown (15-30 mU/L) for 120 minutes after ingestion. This dose takes 3 hours for insulin & AA levels to return to baseline from the point of ingestion. The inclusion of carbs to this dose would cause AA & insulin levels to peak higher & stay elevated above baseline even longer.

    So much for the anabolic peephole & the urgency to down AAs during your weight training workout; they are already seeping into circulation (& will continue to do so after your training bout is done). Even in the event that a preworkout meal is skipped, the anabolic effect of the postworkout meal is increased as a supercompensatory response (Deldicque et al, 2010). Moving on, another recent study (Staples et al, 2010) found that a substantial dose of carbohydrate (50g maltodextrin) added to 25g whey protein was unable to further increase postexercise net muscle protein balance compared to the protein dose without carbs. Again, this is not to say that adding carbs at this point is counterproductive, but it certainly doesn't support the idea that you must get your lightning-fast postexercise carb orgy for optimal results.

    To add to this... Why has the majority of longer-term research failed to show any meaningful differences in nutrient timing relative to the resistance training bout? It's likely because the body is smarter than we give it credit for. Most people don't know that as a result of a single training bout, the receptivity of muscle to protein dosing can persist for at least 24 hours: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21289204

    More from earlier in the thread:

    Here's what you're not seeming to grasp: the "windows" for taking advantage of nutrient timing are not little peepholes. They're more like bay windows of a mansion. You're ignoring just how long the anabolic effects are of a typical mixed meal. Depending on the size of a meal, it takes a good 1-2 hours for circulating substrate levels to peak, and it takes a good 3-6 hours (or more) for everythng to drop back down to baseline.

    You're also ignoring the fact that the anabolic effects of a meal are maxed out at much lower levels than typical meals drive insulin & amino acids up to. Furthermore, you're also ignoring the body's ability of anabolic (& fat-oxidative) supercompensation when forced to work in the absence of fuels. So, metaphorically speaking, our physiology basically has the universe mapped out and you're thinking it needs to be taught addition & subtraction.
    Scivation/Primaforce Anabolic Minds Rep
    Anabolic Minds Site Rep
    www.anabolicminds.com
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